Israel, the United States and Hamas are close to an agreement to free dozens of women and children held hostage in Gaza, in exchange for the first sustained pause in conflict in Gaza, according to people familiar with its provisions.
Five days isn’t enough, but maybe can be stretched out to a real ceasefire by further negotiation?
If Biden pulls off a ceasefire I’m voting for him. If he doesn’t, I won’t. Simple as.
Because trump totally would have gotten that ceasefire
I will not vote for genocide. That’s my red line. If you vote for the lesser of two genocides you’re still voting for genocide.
If Biden actually manages to stop Israel from continuing its genocide he has my vote! That’s all it would take and that is not a high bar.
So you vote for nothing and the worst of the two gets in anyway. The family who would’ve otherwise lived in the ‘lesser genocide’ thanks you. In what realm does that make sense?
These “red line” commenters are so blinded by their own purity tests that they can’t see they’re actually supporting the greater genocide. Every thread here on lemmy is full of them, and they all make the same case, but they refuse to acknowledge the actual reality, which is that not voting for the one person who has an actual chance to beat Trump, they’re actually supporting him. Not as much as they would if they actually voted for him, but still significantly.
If Trump wins by a narrow margin, it will be because of these red-liners who valued their own purity over the lives of others.
By not donating to Biden you are supporting Trump.
In a way, there’s an argument to be made there. If you’re not doing everything you can to help defeat evil, then you are allowing that evil some amount of support.
On the other hand, your vote is black and white. By not voting for the one person who has an actual chance to beat Trump, your actions are inarguably are supporting Trump.
Your money is black and white too. By not donating to the one person that has an actual chance to beat Trump, your actions are unarguably supporting Trump. Similarly! By not volunteering your time to the one person that has an actual chance to beat Trump…
Zero. Difference.
I’m voting downticket for Democrats so they hinder Trump.
I won’t vote for genocide. I’d rather kill myself.
Trump is already talking about basically ethnically cleansing the us in the context of mass deportation of immigrants and other parts of his “platform”.
It is less “voting for the lesser of two genocides”. It is preventing the ones you can.
And by threatening to withhold my vote I’m trying to prevent further genocide in Gaza. We’ve already forced Biden this far, we can force him farther if he realizes it could cost him the election.
So, no ceasefire, no votes.
By voting blue-no-matter-who, you’re just making Biden worse.
If Biden doesn’t get the ceasefire, you won’t vote for him
But who would you vote for, then?
No other candidates, Democrat or Republican, that run again Biden will be able to get the ceasefire, either - come time to vote.
So….you won’t vote at all?
I’ll vote downticket for Democrats and write Hillary Clinton in to the Presidential spot.
Democrats in the House and Senate would rein in Trump and it’s still Her turn!!!
Clinton. You’d vote for Clinton in this theoretical scenario as to who would get your vote in negotiating a ceasefire as president during this crisis.
The Hillary Clinton who has expressly opposed a ceasefire during this very crisis.
That Clinton.
Not against her as a candidate, but you know writing her in will just waste a vote.
There’s also no promise that if she were in the potus seat right now that she could definitively broker a ceasefire. We don’t know how any of it would work with anyone else.
Let’s give Biden a chance.
(Btw im all for voting for another deserving candidate who runs against him on the Democratic ticket)
don’t let people shame you into supporting evil
You should feel shame if your inaction supports the greatest evil.
I feel shame for being American and not laying down my life to oppose this demon shithole.
I mean, you do you. But dying also won’t help stop Trump.
Voting on the other hand…
Good. Feel shame. Put up or shut up.
I won’t be young forever. Hell I’m not sure if I’m even still young now.
Good idea. Thanks for your support. I hope you join me.
don’t shame people into voting for shit, fix your bad candidate problem. bad candidates scare off swing voters in the suburbs worse than progressive candidates
So trump is a better candidate in your eyes?
Because that is who you are effectively voting for if you don’t vote Biden next year
If you don’t donate to Biden you’re effectively donating to Trump.
If you’re given the option to lessen the chance of the greatest evil happening by merely pushing a button, and you think “naah I’m not gunna,” then you absolutely should feel shame. If your inaction supports the greater evil coming to power, absolutely shame on you.
I, for one, accept this fact alongside the ugly truth that Biden is alienating a non-negligible amount of voters which puts into question his chance of winning the needed 1 or 2 of the 5 undecided swing states for an EC victory. I’m at a loss for what to do about the situation, seems like there isn’t a clear solution.
Exactly. I don’t even have any argument for people who dislike Biden, and I totally sympathize with people who want a different candidate.
But in the end of the day, either A or B will win this election, and anything other than a vote for A mathematically works out to support for B. So unless you actually want Trump to win, the _only _reasonable choice is to vote for Biden.
But how do we tell that to people who will decide not to vote or who will vote third party?
Unfortunately, support for Israel is also widespread in the US, so in either case, Biden loses votes. From a domestic and strategic political perspective, there are no right answers.
I think support for Israel among his actual constituents is overstated, and would also sharply decline in the case of the president and senate condemning and punishing Israel for their crimes, but I can’t say anything with certainty these days.
Surely this can be spun as saving Israeli lives for those people? Sure, it’s going to save way more Palestinians, but you’d think it can be marketed as “I brokered the deal thst saved the Israeli hostages”
One hopes.
Because what two foreign powers decide to do is totally Biden’s responsibility?
When it comes to Israel? Absolutely. That’s the 51st state, our own little monster that we’ve fed and created.
Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, US Virgin Islands, Northern Mariana Islands, and Washington DC have entered the chat.
That’s the 51st state, our own little monster that we’ve fed and created.
Jesus Christ. Imagine believing that.
Imagine believing Israel is somehow able to survive without a steady supply of support from the entire Western world.
If the US pulled support, pretty much every NATO country would do the same thing. They’d be alone in the world in a region surrounded by countries opposed to Zionism. Hell, just take those warships out of the Gulf and things would turn very quickly.
“every NATO country would do the same thing”
Who else is materially supporting Israel in NATO, again?
Is NATO just the fucking illuminati, at this point, as an excuse for everything you don’t like?
Do you not remember what happened in the first twenty-five years of Israel’s existence?
Do you not know how US-Israel relations were in that period?
… do you know anything about the history of this region?
Who else is materially supporting Israel in NATO, again?
Diplomatic support matters, but also, the UK has sent ships and planes to support Israel, the European Union’s executive arm announced it was suspending all aid to the Palestinian territories, Germany offers Israel military help and promises to crack down at home on support for Hamas , like are you serious?
Also, this is not the 1950s! You’re living in the past, the Israel of today is run by the soft sons of the ones who conquered Palestine. Their soldiers aren’t warriors, they’re concentration camp guards and dronies and desk jockies. There’s a reason they’ve lost tanks trying to take Gaza.
Diplomatic support matters, but also, the UK has sent ships and planes to support Israel, the European Union’s executive arm announced it was suspending all aid to the Palestinian territories, Germany offers Israel military help and promises to crack down at home on support for Hamas , like are you serious?
I made the comment in response to “Imagine believing Israel is somehow able to survive without a steady supply of support from the entire Western world.”
Show me the steady supply of support from NATO countries other than the US, not the immediate reaction to a civilian massacre.
Also, this is not the 1950s! You’re living in the past, the Israel of today is run by the soft sons of the ones who conquered Palestine. Their soldiers aren’t warriors, they’re concentration camp guards and dronies and desk jockies. There’s a reason they’ve lost tanks trying to take Gaza.
“Soft sons”, “their soldiers aren’t warriors”
Jesus Christ. And tankies wonder why people call them red fash.
Every step matters.
More than 100 countries — but, notably, not the United States — have called for a full and immediate cease-fire.
And yet the us brokered the deal.
Just politics. If we’d called for a ceasefire after Bibi said “No ceasefire”, everything we said behind the scenes about a ‘humanitarian pause’ would have fallen on deaf ears. Yet all of those countries, without such high-level diplomatic connections with Israel, are also entirely correct in calling for a ceasefire.
“just politics” is an odd way to dismiss this. Of course it’s politics.
It’s called diplomacy. Israel doesn’t talk to Hamas, it talks to the US who has interests with the Qataris who they talk to. The Qataris talk to Hamas.
Brokered by the US? Yes. Yes it was.
what made yhem change their minds?
It is a “pause in conflict” so we should assume they’ll continue later.
