Dismissing good advice because the person who gave it to you has flaws is the epitome of logical behavior!
Let’s assume I didn’t know about vaccines and I went to ask for advice to someone. How would I know if what they told me was good advice?
I would ask myself, are they an authority on the subject? Where do they draw the advice from? Who says they are an authority? What did they have to do to earn that authority? Do other authorities say the same?
Are mormons authorities on logic? Why trust advice about logic from someone that doesn’t follow logic?
A liar can say that lying is bad. A killer can say that killing is bad. It just so happens that the advice is good, in spite of who said it.
Wow Reddit really did migrate here
And not just any reddit, but 2010 reddit – in both the best and the worst ways.
Yes, how dare I punch down on the poor Mormon Church!
Ah yes, makes 100 bln dollar profit illegally and tax free, pay 5m fee as punishment. What a fucking joke.
The problem is that the joke is old and isn’t interesting. It’s like talking about weather and then claiming you’re Oscar Wilde.
Person: “Hey, aren’t religious people wacky?”
*Crickets*
I’m not apathetic about religious people because unfortunately they continue to occupy positions of authority in our society.
If religious people were actually dismissed in the way you describe I could understand your perspective. They are not mocked liked this though and are very much taken seriously.
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But you’re not talking about that, you’re mocking an individual for being religious.
They are not mocking them for being religious. They are mocking their advice about logic, which comes from a religious person.
Because you know, religion & logic don’t go hand in hand.
Isn’t the boss a position of authority?
unfortunately they continue to occupy positions of authority in our society.
No need to pick on religious people in this case. There are plenty of people with various character flaws in positions of power / authority.
If religious people were actually dismissed in the way you describe I could understand your perspective. They are not mocked liked this though and are very much taken seriously.
So you don’t know about:
- Bill Maher
- Bill Hicks
- George Carlin
- South Park
- any comedy movie that involves a religious character
- the Internet
Notably those examples make absolutely no difference on how religious people in authority positions frequently use their religion to guide how they use their authority (which ain’t fucking cool)
Yup, I’ve heard this one before as well. Got anything new to add to the discussion?
Do you? Your only replies are just you being shocked nobody agrees with you.
Someones upset their church is only 95% in charge
I never accused you of punching down lol
I think it’s pretty logical to outwardly seem like a Mormon in Utah, so I guess it depends.
Actually, mormons think they are very logical. I’ve seen many instances of people talking about how Brandon Sanderson being Mormon is why he’s so thorough at world building.
Does he write his world building on golden plates?
Perhaps he dictates his stories using a seer stone while staring into a hat?
dum dum dum dum dum
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I mean, I can’t think of another sect of christianity that requires special underwear. Outerwear, sure, but underwear? Creepy.
Most christians pretend to be cannibals as a weekly rite.
The person they are cannibalizing is the same one they worship.
The extra layer of clothes is the most boring thing about mormons.
Really? Is it not painfully obvious this is a symbolistic practise / metaphor
You can say whatever you like bud, its creepy to roleplay as cannibals as a core of your religion.
Well, when you put it like that…
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It is a little different when your origin story is very obviously a mediocre conman having his shitty cons described by multiple eye witness accounts and having your myths be 2000 years old with no first hand accounts.
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Like I said, it’s different when you have the actual daily journals of people calling it a con.
Or his wife calling him a liar after he stuck his head in a hat to get his prophecies.
Like, regardless of the fact that to religious types the age of the belief has value, it’s just a whole different level of obvious bullcrap beyond simply believing in the supernatural.
No but any religion is similarly “illogical”, Mormons are the same as other Christians with extra “m”
As someone who has worked with and for Mormons, it’s a special kind of hell. Usually some flavor of narcissist stunted at a middle-school level of inward development.
I’ve known some really nice Mormons, but if you dig below the surface, they have a lot of crazy ideas. A lot.
That is bigoted thing to say
It’s accurate thing to say.
Nothing will make you more anti-Mormon than getting to know some Mormons.
A slightly different hot take:
Professing to be a mormon is a logical decision if your culture is mormon.
Disinterest in pursuing a more empirical world view is not illogical if one would have to damage their relationship with those closest to them in its pursuit.
(Sorry about the pretentiousness of that (and this) sentence, I can’t find a more vernacular way of expressing these ideas succinctly).
What you said (and such defenses of religion) makes me think: If I see someone ready to jump off a bridge, and I can stop them against their will, should I? I mean, inside their brain they are ending their suffering. They don’t see value in life. But I do. Whose worldview is more important?
What if it was drugs, should I stop them? What if it was drinking every weekend? What if it was refusing to go outside without a mask in the middle of a pandemic?
What if it was following the cult of their parents, which encourages abuse & discrimination of women, opression of minorities, supression & regression of scientific advances and further indoctrination of future generations? If I have the power to get someone out of their cult against their will, should I?
Or what if it was continuing to feed a system that brainwashes people into thinking that monetary gain is what’s important in life, that the system is infallible, and no alternatives exist?
Should we act against what we perceive as wrong, even if it’s against the will of other persons? Where do we draw the line? Who decides what is right and what is wrong?
Following my first example, it is logical that a person that sees no value in life would want to commit suicide. It is logical to want to end one’s suffering. It would be illogical for them to continue living a life of misery and suffering. It would be illogical for them to expect changes for the better, given their past experiences.
So why do we stop suicides? Why do we prevent them? Isn’t it logical for such person to commit suicide?
I’m happy my comment has sparked some thought. You asked a lot of open ended questions and I can’t take the time to address them right now I hope you’re not disappointed when you learn all i have to say right now is that:
Not every suicide is illogical, and I’m thankful to live in a society that recognizes that, and provides medical assistance in dieing but I don’t have enough information to weigh in with more specificity than that.
Thanks for voicing this, I also find it interesting.
The problem is, I’ve been a supporter of suicide for ages, so I feel like in not your target audience. I guess it’s really tricky because often the logic is using flawed assumption or blinders - no one is an island, it’s impossible to die without affecting those around you…
Obviously religions, world views and differences of priorities are more nuanced, but I really appreciate your approach of not interfering with ones agency.
Is there a tie-in with the paradox of tolerance, here? Feels like it
For one thing, some suicides leave dependents behind who can’t take care of themselves without the person who committed suicide.
Boss says “make logical decisions”. Insights like this are why they pay him the big bucks. Not just anybody can come up with such insights. (/s)
What do you call an 8 year old girl in Utah who can out run her Bishop?
I don’t know. Would you tell me?
Safe
I hope she’s a good distance runner since there’s no mass transit in much of Utah. It also explains why Japanese internment camps were located there and modern juvenile detention centers can often be found in places like Blanding, Utah: it’s difficult to physically and anonymously escape.
But Is he a good boss and is he a good person?
Perfectly tolerable as both in my view.
This just isn’t one of their strengths.
I mean it’s damn close but if you continue to zoom out you’ll see another point even further away. That my dear is the GOP.
If they had the vocabulary, they probably would say that they live by heavyweight axioms like “Joseph Smith was a prophet of God” and “The Book of Mormon is true”. From my experience, it is possible to exercise logic with flawed axioms so long as you steer clear of a liberal arts education (my mistake, lol).
Most people don’t actually know what logic is. I would ask him to define logic to see where he’s coming from. Because most people either don’t have a definition or if they do it’s different than the one the person they’re talking to has. But to do that, you’ll also want a definition you could explain to someone else going into asking the question.
I’ll take a swing at it. I’m curious how I’ll do if I just wing it.
Logic is a set of rules that can be used to form repeatable results based on given information. It’s often built using one’s own knowledge and experience. Logic does not require producing accurate results. Flawed logic is still logic. Logic also does not guarantee that the results are the desired results, this is sometimes described as “garbage in, garbage out”.
Is that satisfactory?
Well, do they believe the crazy bullshit, or are they just an opportunist looking to make connections? Church is lucrative.
If your boss is a man, it’s easy to explain that logically: possibility for multiple women.
