- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
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That’s too optimistic…
More dumber people everyday…
Blame the conservatives and their hatred of education. Smart people don’t usually vote conservative.
Yougov is a privately owned British company that is not the branch or division of any federal governments, despite their name attempting to imply they are directly affiliated with the US government. YouGov was created by a couple super right wingers, conservative and bigoted AF. They create these polls as propaganda. They are almost always poorly conducted, with a purposeful effort to gain the outcome they desire.
We’ve always been at war with eastasia… Sad state of affairs for sure.
Clever, yet horrific. I hate it yet like it.
This is what happens when you defund education and replace it with conservative “news”…
It’s astonishing to me that one of the most well documented atrocities to ever befall mankind, the evidence of which not only still stands but you can literally go walk around it, can be deemed a myth.
This isn’t some Bible story, you can literally go see the remnants of it with your own eyes!
People also believe that Satan buried dinosaur bones.
I mean, how else would they have gotten there???
Fire and brimstone decended from the sky. Satan arrived on Earth and bathed the planet in fire and destruction. Killing all life across the lands. For the land was tainted by the monstrous sinners that are the dinosaurs.
Asteroid hits earth*
Badass death metal playing in background
I thought it was Santa?
That’s how he made the coal
The biggest change according to the article is with your age 20-30 and they sure as shit don’t get most of their news from traditional media, but from social media, especially TikTok as the article states.
You know, the not so conservative TikTok run by a not so friendly communist dictatorship.
I read the comment as saying that education is defunded, and they’re replacing it with shit they heard on conservative news. As in the adults choosing curricula, etc. not the kids themselves.
At least thats how I read it. And it is absolutely true.
The survey also says calling Isreal apartheid is antisemitic so now I’m questioning the validity of the 25%. I think in the age of social media its possible but now I’m starting to question it after actually reading it.
The survey asks:
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? 45H. Agreement with Statements about Israel — Israel is an apartheid state
I disagree with your statement that the survey says calling Israel an apartheid state is anti-Semitic.
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf
Oh my bad I must have misread it, I thought it has labeled it under “analysis of antisemitic beliefs” but it clearly says “agreement with statement about Israel”. However it does put holocaust denial under "agreement with statement about Israel (page 103). As well as “jews have too much power in america” (pg. 105)
This is the survey link.
Not too sure what this survey is actually measuring.
For instance:
the word Israel is mentioned 79 times
the word Hamas is mentioned 7 times
the word Palestine is mentioned 0 timesAlso in another article with the same title:
While the question only surveyed a small sample of about 200 people, it lends credence to concerns about rising antisemitism, especially among young people in the U.S.
Another 30 percent of young people said they didn’t agree or disagree with the statement, while the remaining 47 percent disagreed. Only 7 percent of Americans overall believe the Holocaust is a myth, according to the poll.
Sounds like a classic push poll or a click-bait study with the goal of making headlines.
Scientific polling, outside of a handful of well-funded firms that are legitimately trying to find out voter intent before an election, is basically dead. Without landlines it is extremely expensive. So very few things are even worth polling. Most forms of polling have pretty much stop existing altogether. What’s left are more or less the scam artists and unethical marketing firms. As a result, you can no longer trust polling of this nature anymore.
Not a survey about the Holocaust then. Neither Israel not Hamas were pertinent to the Holocaust because neither of both existed.
But maybe that is an “antisemitic” take according to the survey.
Give them a trip to Auschwitz in Poland and they’ll soon believe it existed.
Are you proposing a field trip, a new holocaust, or both?
What do you actually think? 🤔 Field trip.
Every young American should be taken to the Holocaust Museum in DC at some point. If that doesn’t profoundly impact you, you need a psych eval.
My class went to a German concentration camo(Buchenwald) this year and this was probably the most inspiring and shocking trip of my life. Of course, most stuff wasn’t new for me, but when you stand at the same spot where Jews stand and we’re tortured or killed by the SS and hearing the story’s that survivors told(we didn’t met survivors, but we heard some of their stories) is something completely different.
My town (actually a city) has its own Holocaust museum. I remember going there when I was in school.
Growing up Jewish (I’m agnostic now), this was a pretty impactful and serious day when we went there.
I know I’ve seen and spoken to survivors too, they have some powerful stories.
That museum is so scarring. The stuff I saw and smelled there is permanently welded into my brain. Some of the pictures of what they did to people are like a fishhook through an open eye.
The shoe room and the pictures of the lab are some of the most horrific things I’ve ever seen.
Exactly why everyone should be required to go at an impressionable age. I doubt we would have half so many Nazis running around if they’d all been there when they were 13.
On December 5th, for over five hours, lawmakers grilled the presidents of elite universities in a congressional hearing about antisemitism on college campuses. In one of the testiest exchanges a Republican congresswoman, Elise Stefanik, asked whether “calling for the genocide of Jews” violates university rules. It is “context-dependent”, replied Liz Magill, the president of the University of Pennsylvania.
In what context is calling for genocide acceptable?
Maybe people who leave their shopping cart just anywhere in the lot, or listen to music from a speaker, on a bus?
listen to music from a speaker, on a bus?
How has this suddenly become a thing again? I hate it.
Suddenly? It’s always been a thing, just more people have easy access to speakers now.
In what context is a republican condemning antisemitism normal?
It depends on how you define “calling for the genocide of Jews”. Some people seem to consider saying “The Palestinian people have a right to exist” to be “calling for the genocide of Jews”.
Given the fact that the question was asked by a Republican to what they consider a fairly liberal university, I don’t exactly put a lot of stock into it being a question asked in an intellectually honest way.
“From the river to the sea” is a chant about Israel stopping to exist and be replaced with a Muslim Palestinian regime. Guess what happens to Jews under Muslim regimes. It sounds sweet until you listen to what their leaders are calling for.
There’s really no way to twist it to be about peace and freedom. It’s a genocidal chant.
Arab Jews and Arab Muslims lived peacefully together in the region for centuries prior to Zionism. Acting like they have to kill each other is part of the issue. They do not. This isn’t about religious groups that are required to hate each other, it’s about power hungry people using religion to make people hate each other for their benefit.
The hatred between Arabs and Jews isn’t natural, but it is real. The destruction of Israel would likely mean conditions for the Israelis quite similar to what the Palestinians endure now. (loss of land/ homes, political repression, official discrimination, refugees, and migration) I get the hypocrisy of Zionists calling it genocide when it happens to them, but swapping the oppressed and the oppressors isn’t a solution. It wouldn’t undo 1948, it’d redo 1948.
Does anybody wanna see what happens when there is mass migration of Jews into the West? Does anybody want to see what Israel will do with her nukes?
This is what people of good-faith mean when they say “it’s complicated”. The war crimes are simple; that the violence must stop is simple; but simple solutions are an illusion.
The only situation where this can be fine is if you’re quoting someone. But apart from that I can’t think about any other situation where this wouldn’t be problematic.
How people selectively quote and paraphrase is probably key. There’s a lot of people today who would hear someone say the Palestinians should be free and think they’d attack Israel, Israel is Jewish, so that’s calling for genocide. People right now are really making up their own facts and treating it like truth. So part of context dependent is how full of shit people are.
Whether that’s what they meant I can only speculate, but I can certainly understand the perspective of saying “not every instance of this thing is evil, and I reserve the right to judge each instance on its own merits.”
I think it has a lot to do with the death of the WWII generation. They’re not around any longer to give oral history. When I was a kid, the town was full of WWII vets. My barber hated Nazis and George Patton in that order. We not only learned about things like the holocaust in school, but had people in town that lived through the experience.
This might be the main reason. My grandfather passed away two years ago and he was the one who I talked to a lot about this when I was a kid even though he not always wanted to for understandable reasons, but it gave me a clear image that WWII was real and that fascism is something I never ever want to have in this world again and that voting right wing is one of the worst things one can do.
I also visited Auschwitz 15 years ago and that left a lasting impression I will never forget.
lasting impression I will never forget
tends to do that
I don’t believe this at all. I’ve literally never met a holocaust denier.
My brother is a flat earther, so I never rule anything out anymore.
Wow, that’s really embarrassing. Everyone knows the earth is a flat disk now, he’s gotta be more up to date. Just like how the govment wants us to think “Australia” allegedly exists.
Travel around the middle east a bit… or college campuses in the US.
What’re you talking about, American college students know the holocaust happened. Have you never been to one before?
It’s mostly nazis and right wingers that deny it.
Have you seen the ““protests”” happening around colleges and in major urban areas in the last few months???
It’s far worse than them thinking the holocaust is a myth, they’re literally celebrating it and calling for another one.
I’ve never met Kanye West, but I’ve seen him on TV, and that barking cunt is one
Also the 20% wouldn’t be homogenously dispersed in all neighborhoods, I assume they overlap with antisemitism and bigotry quite a bit and exist in the more sister-fuckery parts of America
Kanye isn’t really a good example, since it’s clear he’s just insane and crazy, instead of actually dangerous.
They overlap and he’s both
There’s a very very fine line between “just insane and crazy” and “actually dangerous”
Consider yourself lucky. They do exist.
This is so baffling to me, as an older millennial. My history education from elementary through high school was at least 25% about the Holocaust.
Younger millenials and zoomers werent ‘Left Behind’, as it were.
Following generations were given a hollowed out education focused on standardized test passing and job training. Art, civics, social studies, history? All got dumpstered as a priority across american public education.
There is still curriculum but unless its on the standardized test, it wont actually be taught or covered. Early 2000s was a massive paradigm shift in public education.
No surprise the first generation fully raised under No Child Left Behind was first able to vote in… 2016.
It sounds like you mean to say that they were left behind.
I think part of it is because when we were young (GenX here), Holocaust survivors regularly visited our schools to tell their stories in person. It’s much harder to deny when you’re not just reading about it, but hearing it from people who experienced it. We also had visits by survivors of Hiroshima/Nagasaki.
There aren’t many survivors left anymore.
This doesn’t make sense to me. If you go through history class, you don’t have verifiable proof of nearly anything, you have a textbook. I’m not questioning the existence of the first president of the US, the civil war, ww1, etc. No first party sources ever came to verify them to me. Maybe I question if something played out exactly the same, but I trust big events happened.
So why specifically is the holocaust a myth? Or does 20% of the population just think all history is made up, and the holocaust denial is a symptom?
Those other events don’t have a decent number of deniers actively trying to refute them. The deniers claim textbooks and photos are fake, and that was harder to do when witnesses were more prevalent in people’s lives.
I’m not saying most people need that, but some people seem to. Some people won’t be swayed by anything, obviously. A lot of the major conspiracy theories are rooted in antisemitism (flat earth, lizard people, etc), and the Holocaust is the most obvious.
So it seems like it’s not really that there are fewer surviving holocaust victims; rather that for some reason holocaust deniers already existed (in sufficient quantity) & are somehow influential enough to pass that belief along to a substantial number of youths, so it persists.
for some reason
Antisemitism has been prevalent throughout the West for ages.
I think the same as an older millennial. Every year in grade school, we would have an assembly with a Holocaust survivor.
The number can’t be that high
I’m in Louisiana, and I think the number CAN be that high.
…er…which number would that be?
Do they think it? Or do they say it?
To Eisenhower’s credit he knew the future might hold this possibility, so he made local Germans from around the concentration camps come help clean up and to see the bodies and destruction the Germans have caused to the Jews, Gypsies, Gays, and all other “undesirables” of Europe the Germans killed.
Eisenhower never wanted them to say it didn’t happen. He wanted those smells, sights, the what was left of the survivors burned into their memories. Unfortunately these live Witnesses have faded away with time. There are not many first hand witnesses/survivors left.
The dead can no longer speak. The new generations can say whatever they want now and ignore everything that has come before. Their new reality isn’t correct or factual but it is their’s share and in the new world it’s easy to find many that want to think incorrectly with you.
Eisenhower was brilliant to document the holocaust so thoroughly.
Sadly, they don’t link to the survey data. Nor does this data provide the number of respondents, how they reached them, and any of their methodology.
There’s a surprising amount of additional insight like 1 in 10 males agree, 1 in 9 moderates and Democrats, 1 in 8 Hispanics and Blacks agree, 1 in 7 urban people agree. It also stays when across income.
I don’t know where the education level stuff comes from that’s mentioned in the article.
“Agree with statements about Israel” - when they frame it like that, it creates a priming effect (and I’m guessing it was in a poll about Israel/Palestine, which also would cause a priming effect). So it’s kind of set up to make people think of it as the pro-Israel answer vs the pro-Palestinian answer. Of course as individuals they should still recognize that the holocaust happened, but as comparisons between groups it probably says more about opinions regarding Israel than about WWII history.
