“Everyone”?
There are languages with a 4th person pronoun. The 3rd person is kind of the main character and the 4th someone else. That helps to disambiguate sentences like “The criminal shot the cop and drove away on his (own or the cop’s) bike”.
Or the “gay fanfiction problem”: “He looked at him and lay his hands on his lap”. Is it a happy ending or a sad one? That’s one theory why gender in pronouns is so resilient: more often than not, the gendered pronoun can disambiguate which person is talked about. It doesn’t always work, a 3rd/4rd person distinction is superior.
Also solved by a reflexive pronoun, as in Russian
Northern Germanic languages like swedish do the same trick btw
You can have an alternate third person pronoun I suppose in order to distinguish two third person individuals, but that doesn’t mean there’s a fourth person pronoun. The general definition is:
- first person - the speaker
- second person - the audience, whether present or not present
- third person - someone or something other than the audience
So things like “chat” and “breaking the fourth wall” are second person pronouns. There is no fourth person pronoun, because anything other than first and second is covered under third person.
I’ve looked it up and the official name is “obviative” and it is sometimes referred to as the “fourth person”.
That still sounds like a special type of third person, though I guess that’s just disagreeing about terminology.
I see why you would analyze it that way but I also see that it deserves a term in its own rights. As you said, it’s all terminology. There are no objective definitions, at least not in linguistics
Isn’t ‘chat’ essentially treated as a name, except that it refers to a group of people instead of an individual?
I think you’re right, and the pronoun for it would be the second person plural (you in English).
Fourth pronoun was doing well, until the fifth person enters the scene.
missed opportunity to say enters the chat
I usually say “smash that like button” but ill throw in “chat” in the future to stay relevant with these kids.
Smash that like button if you agree with me chat
“This pop quiz is brought to you by Raid Shadow Legends”
Its ant league now right
Not sure I agree, but I like smashing stuff, so I still upvoted.
Petition to rename ‘chat’ to ‘hulk’
me when i’ve taken half a class of english: bro chat is 4th person 🤓
Why isn’t that just 2nd person plural, like “y’all”?
It speaks to a person that isn’t physically present and just an observer. “You” typically addresses someone directly, but can be used to break the 4th wall and talk to observers. “Chat” is exclusively for breaking the 4th wall.
Nah, “chat” is talking to a specific, present group of people, and is used in lieu of writing a text chat. It’s not like a film actor speaking to the audience, who has no way of responding. Even so, any terms used in breaking the fourth wall would still be second person, ability to respond and presence aren’t a requirement here (e.g. you’d use “you” in letters, and the reader is absolutely not present).
It’s just a pronoun to address the Collective
But have they begun unwittingly emulating the ancient Greek chorus yet, or is this that? In either event, I’m amused, but slightly moreso with the former of entire groups addressing their situation
First person = someone describing their own point of view (ex: I, me)
Second person = someone being addressed (ex: you, y’all)
Third person = someone talking about someone else (ex: they, them)
Fourth person = the point of view of a collective group (ex: we, us)
I can’t tell if you’re making a joke or not, but when I learned it “we” was first person plural. Likewise “y’all” was second person plural, etc.
I actually think this is hilarious and approve
Probably has something to do with meat crayons video, I’ve been hanging out with some 20 year olds in discord and theh routinely make jokes based off this video.
Dude i think the joke is in reference to twitch streamers, not just XQC and not just MeatCanyon
So we agree
Not really, your original comment kinda makes the assertion that this all stems from MeatCanyon
Right that’s exactly what I’m saying, glad we could clear that up :)
it’s definitely 2nd person collective in its original usage and outside of its original usage it’s not a pronoun because it doesn’t replace a noun.
I don’t think it’s a pronoun at all. It’s a collective noun, and a term of address.
“Ladies and Gentlemen” is also not a pronoun.
My rl name starts with Chat and I introduce myself as such most places. It’s pronounced differently though, since it’s based on a French word. The Ch has an Sh sound. And yes, I know what that sounds like…
I live in quebec so to me it sounds like pussy (chatte)
“chato” also means boring or annoying in portuguese.
miau
Actually the t is silent so it’s SHA in french
SHAT would be for female cat but really means pussy
You’re welcome.
My name is based off the cat thing though. Chatoyer, chatoyant, chatoyancy, all based off of cats eye.
And pussy is better than how it sounds in e glish, so ty :P
Lmao find it funny he says he knows but then doesnt know
Ah, I mentioned it’s shortened. My name is Chatoyer:
Etymology. From French chatoyant, present participle of chatoyer (“to iridesce, like a cat’s eye”), from chat (“cat”, because of the reflective qualities of a cat’s eye).
A classic weeb, but the French version
Actually in French the t is silent, so it’s “SHA”.
“SHAT” is only for female cat, and is more immediately recognized as the word for pussy.
you’re welcome
First person: Talking about oneself. I, me. Second person: talking about the listener. you, your. Third person: talking about someone who is not the speaker or listener. He/she/it/they Fourth person: Talking about total bullshit.
In this context, “Chat” is second-person plural, used by streamers to address the portion of their audience able to respond in the text chat that always accompanies these things. It does contrast with how a radio personality might address “listeners” because radio listeners don’t usually have a method to respond in real time, so it’s usually a rhetorical question; a streamer addressing the chat is asking for a response.
Crystal clear, thanks chat.
i saw someone argue for chat being a 4th person pronoun because it breaks the 4th wall usually seen in mass broadcast media, there’s still a degree of interaction that isn’t there on live TV, so “chat is this real” prompts a direct response from a unified mass of people, there’s a conversation happening through the 4th wall basically
the other person explained it better lol
Eh, I don’t think that holds up.
I might buy the 4th person as “someone outside your continuum or reality,” but I’ve yet to see a language construct specifically for that. Fictional characters invariably use second or third person to refer to the audience outside their world.
Streamers talking with their chat audience aren’t fictional or otherworldly though. I don’t see a linguistic difference between a streamer asking the chat what game he should play next, to Bob Saget saying “Home viewers, if you have a funny home video, send the tape to the address on your screen for a chance at appearing on our show!” It’s a communique addressing a large scattered audience through audio/video telephony soliciting a reply. The only real difference is round-trip latency.
While I think the phenomenon of live streaming and their audiences is interesting and presents a fairly new experience, I don’t know if it’s “we’re inventing new pronoun tenses over here.”
Chat: The perfect autistic pronoun
What’s your question?