Millennials volunteered for Iraq.
That’s scary to know.
Eh…not really. I remember this period quite clearly, people that were gonna join the military suddenly though better of it. There was a 9/11 spike, and for Afghanistan, but not for Iraq.
Gen x*
The oldest millennials were miltary service age in 2002.
If that is an option for a western liberal state but it isnt an option for an authoritarian state, guess which state will win. And then it wont be an option anywhere.
You have to fight for your rights. And authoritarian states know that your attitude is prevalent and they intend to exploit it.
Now you might say “but of course i will defend against an invasion”. Well, what about an invasion next door? What about a tiny landgrab of let’s say 50sqkm. Would you willing to die for such a small piece of land? This kind of “small” infractions and hybrid warfare is how Ukraine almost lost its entire country.
And this isnt a “Russia” thing, it is an “everywhere thing”.
Hitler did the same, he didnt go from the start “you know, everything is ours”. No, they just went to help some ethnic germans in Czechia, then took a break(Munich Agreement). Then went to help some germans in Poland and took a break(Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact). And since they were winning and those damn russians might attack them, they might as well attack first.
Strongmen and authoritarians only respect and understand power. Anything else appears as weakness to them. If you are not willing to use violence and they are, then you will lose. Even if you dont lose now, you will lose in the future.
PS And no, people wont “rise up” against an authoritarian government. Thats not how things work.
You have to fight for your rights.
Agreed, which is why we need to turn the guns on our own ruling classes.
And then after that, Russia, right? That’s the plan, right? Hang on, if that’s what we’re doing, then can we just fight Russia first, actually?
We’re already not fighting Russia so nothing changes there.
But hey if you want to start WW3 go for it.
I think the meme and following discussion all require a Hypothetical WW3 to be taking place as context.
Not really, I saw this as “You can start shit but fair warning, we won’t be turning up.”
Yes, so, as we were saying, “when shit starts” which is the core of this entire discussion then Deceptichum will betray his country and murder servicemen as if WW3 hadn’t already begun.
people wont “rise up” against an authoritarian government. Thats not how things work.
Clearly.
If that is an option for a western liberal state but it isnt an option for an authoritarian state…
It’s definitely an option in an authoritarian state. Thousands of men left Russia once the draft started. At one point 10,000 people a day were crossing into Georgia.
Most people dont have the option to leave their country. In fact, it is infinitely harder to leave your country under an authoritarian government for precisely this reason. And one of the main reasons some people managed to leave Russia is simply because Russia wasnt as authoritarian as it could be.
Restricting movement, even within the country is a typical authoritarian policy.
This is particularly true if you’re poor. “Why do they always send the poor?” Because they either can’t leave or fighting is the best financial opportunity. The latter is true in the US as well.
Hey if anyone’s a lawyer or knows what they’re talking about what’s the current consensus or constitutionality of conscription in the US? I think it’s illegal under the 13th amendment (which literally bans servitude AKA forced service) and the only court case I could find had the opinion of “well everyone else does it!”
Yeah I think there’s enough precedent at this point that it wouldn’t just be a flip a switch and make it happen. I mean, they would make a new switch. Couple of quick shuffles, some policy. The thing is, even if it was cut and dry and clear in current law, The ability to compel the general public is essentially non-existent. What happens when 50% of the population refuses to answer the call? Hell what happens when 10% of the population refuses to answer the call? We can’t even incarcerate 0.1% of the population more at the moment. Do you compel the banks to stop working with them? Void their social security numbers? How would you even have enough people to enforce any punishments against them?
On the flip side, what do you do when the homeland is invaded? What happens if China decides that we’re looking kind of weak in the middle of a civil war. It’s one thing to be conscripted to fight a war for other people trying to stabilize a geopolitical climate, but what happens when they’re knocking on your door? Do you just accept them openly and hope that they will let you keep your things?
The US has something like 0.6% of the country as military troops anyway (both active and reserve). That’s over 2M people.
Hard to tell which part of my questions you’re answering.
But on one hand you wouldn’t be able to use them to compel the other people to come into the military because they’d already be in use.
On the other hand if China was actually serious about invading, those numbers are utterly insignificant. Hell, if they feel at the same percentage for their military, It would probably be bigger than our damn population.
I meant that the US has a huge standing army despite the constitution not wanting that. Even in the event of a large geopolitical war they’d probably not even need extra persons.
Yeah but the US has as a gun behind every blade of grass.
They do, but 99 out of 100 of them would be completely useless against any form of coordinated insurgency.
Arming yourself is pretty effective against a single person trying to get you, or even against a local security force that really doesn’t want to die for their job. Look at Uvalde. If that was a military off it would have been over in seconds.
The actual number of people that take the time to do target practicing and can hit a moving target, The number of people that can properly maintain a firearm, It’s nowhere near the number that are actually armed.
And to be honest it probably wouldn’t be a D-Day style invasion. They’d probably work their way into government. Spread a bunch of propaganda around. Sew discontent, feed infighting. Attack education, gerrymander and otherwise rig the votes, Dismantle the branches of government and place their own agents to take over laws and legal rulings. By the time real boots were hitting the ground would be so entrenched in internal combat we wouldn’t know it hit us.
If I remember my constitutional law classes correctly, conscription was canned after a series of Supreme Court cases where conscientious objectors successfully argued that under the 1st amendment they could not be made to serve. Since “religion” is very loosely defined in the US, pretty much anyone can claim that conscription violates their free exercise of a peace-loving religion.
Hm thanks.
Can you expand on what “canned” means?
It’s a somewhat informal “discarded.”
It is, and I apologize if my informality caused any confusion. Good night!
In this context, it means “disposed of,” or “abolished.”
It can also mean “fired,” as in “Donny showed up to work drunk, so he got canned.”
You Anal, huh? That’s cool, I’m not big into it myself.
During the Vietnam era, several people used the 1st Amendment to avoid getting drafted. To quote Wikipedia, “United States v. Seeger, 1965, ruled that a person can claim conscientious objector status based on religious study and conviction that has a similar position in that person’s life to the belief in God, without a concrete belief in God.[4] United States v. Welsh, five years later, ruled that a conscientious objector need have no religious belief at all.” Widespread opposition to the draft during the Vietnam era led to official termination of the draft system in 1973. Since 1980, adult males are again required to register for military service in case their country enters a state of war. But there is no real punishment for failing to sign up, and the country hasn’t officially been at war since 1945.
Edit: sorry I can’t get the quote to work and it’s late at night here. This’ll have to do.
No that’s perfect thank you.
Yet, young us men still have to sign up for ‘selective service’ when they turn 18.
Gillette sent me a free razor as a reward, at least.
I’d join whichever side is winning.
What if the campaign is alliance locked?
exit the game
As long as they are recruiting the dumbest and poorest from your failing high-schools you’ll always have enough for your wars.
Why don’t Presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?
Because the only way to get rid of the poverty is to get rid of the poor.
Fortunate Son. Their is a song about this but let me teach you a lesson about poverty entrapment. Because it’s easy to take advantage of everybody if you artificially take away the most important parts of people’s lives. Capitalism is designed to make you suffer and the military takes advantage of it to send the least fortunate to the front lines in hopes of a monetary reward because capitalism is designed to keep you under unless you are 1%. Now I have an entire population desperate for money and I need lives on the front line you get the shitshow that is capitalism with the military? Eat the rich. Those piggies are fattest and juiciest.
You’re literally responding to song lyrics
/woosh I haven’t heard or listened in a long time.
Fortunate Son was not about fighting Nazis.
I mean, if another world war happened, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ll at least be willing to do civilian duty to help the war effort in my country since I can’t join the military due to medical reasons, unless they get desperate and start taking everyone regardless of health issues. I definitely ain’t doing it out of patriotism or nationalism, but just to make my final years feel like they ment something when we inevitably launch the nukes.
You’d be amazed what some good old fashion propaganda will do for you.
The US was so gung-ho after 9-11 they accidentally attacked the wrong country. I know they didn’t have any problem getting troops or buy-in from the people of all ages. It was pretty disgusting how quickly your average citizen bought into the bull-shit the Bush administration was selling when it was obviously a lie.
The US was so gung-ho after 9-11 they accidentally attacked the wrong country.
“accidentally”. Lol.
“Accidentally”. That’s funny. Not only because there was more than one.
This might have happened. But the internet was still in its infancy, with only MSM having capabilities to stream live for the masses. Social media was limited to forums, BBS, news groups and similar, and they were really a niche.
Seeing all the raw footage of wartorn places on sites like Instagram and TikTok today, and even just sharing them in group chats is a whole new angle that wasn’t there before.
They touted the first Iraq war as the first fully televised war.
The MIC were so proud.
Yeah. For me it was the same with everyone cheering for Ukraine wanting to get into Nato and putting it in their Constitution even though it would never happen. And then everyone acting surprised when Russia invades after they said they would for years. It was so predictable that I can’t help but assume that it was a deliberate trap set for Russia. Russia is wrong, but it was predictable, inevitable. But everyone was suddenly so gung-ho that possible diplomatic solutions to end this senseless war were not demanded by “the left”. Still isn’t.
And kinda the same with Israel now, the Oct.7 was a horrible atrocity and war crime but they blatantly lied to make it sound even more horrible in order to dehumanize and justify the war crimes they are committing now. But so many on the left are still screaming death! and the news in my “progressive” country is reporting complete propaganda.
Gen-Z is presumably just as easy to brainwash for total war with the right propaganda. Or maybe they will grow up being more resistant to it.
The first gun they’ll give me I’ll aim at myself and be done with it.
You can aim it at your commanding officer first!
Ah the Afghani strategy.
Throwing a grenade in a CO’s tent is a tradition from Vietnam, and I’m hoping it makes a come back.
Fragging.
RIP Pat Tillman.
Turkish firearms have a protection on the trigger to prevent you from committing die
Where there’s a will there’s a way.
Personally I’d choose a grenade pressed against my skull. No chance of survival when your brain is quite literally puréed
Interesting, how would that work? An extra trigger you need to press before it fires which you can’t reach? That would seem like a hassle on the battlefield, if that safety would make it even the tiniest bit more difficult to fire when an enemy approaches.
Uhm, doofus, nobody’s gonna fight in ww3.
Bombs get launched and we ALL die, that’s how ww3 is faught.
It’s frightening how little the younger generations understand about nuclear war.
You couldn’t be more wrong.
Me looking at the handful of declassified missile defense sites and wondering what shit we have that isn’t known.
Yeah… it’ll just be that simple Mr. Armchair General.
NATO gets assailed and everybody responds, which is the whole point. That’s an unwanted fission excess immediately.
There have been plenty of wars fought in the age of nuclear weapons that, strangely enough, have not resulted in the use of nuclear weapons. There’s a few of them going on right now, in fact!
Not directly between nuclear powers though.
Which nuclear powers do you foresee entering into direct conflict in a theoretical WW3 scenario based on current conditions?
In context of being a hypothetical world war, I do believe the current major powers, some of which have nukes, need to be involved. By definition, the answer to your question would have to be someone on this list.
I don’t see how the current geopolitical climate results in any of those coming into direct conflict rather than just continuing to wage thinly veiled proxy wars. The only WW3 scenario I can imagine right now looks more like an intensification of the current situation.
I do not see any world wars happening anytime soon either, given a somewhat rational (read non-suicidal) leadership of key nations. The original comment you responded to said that none would survive a nuclear total war, to which you replied that there have been wars fought in the nuclear age. This is true, even to the point of proxy wars between nuclear powers. However, they are not world wars, for which I think the original comment’s argument holds true. In effect the idea is that a world war would almost by definition have some nuclear power on either side.
If a world war can only exist between nuclear powers then does the first one (and most of the second) not count?
So…they are going to send gen x and gen alpha?
don’t worry, I hear there are a bunch of states in the US that are readying the next batch with moms who died from birth complication, unwanted babies, etc.
Ask Nicolae Ceaușescu what happens next.
Gen X here, fuck that noise.
We’re too old. There’s a reason they recruit high schoolers. They don’t have enough life experience to know when they should say, “with all due respect sir, fuck that,” when given an unlawful order. Also they know we are more likely to kill the officers if we decide to go out.
I mean, recruit the gen x to be the officers and the gen alpha gamers to pilot the combat androids and drones.
pilot the combat androids
I’m convinced this near-future sci-fi bullshit exists as a means of suckering in 19-year-olds who think they won’t be in the trenches getting mortars dropped on their heads.
Cannon fodder will be gen z and millennials /s
Like this tactic is even new, just replace “near-future sci-fi” with “DnD + American Gladiators” and you have the same dumb shit but 25 years ago
This sentiment of ‘I’m not going to fight’ is funny until the war actually starts. And then it’s either you fight early, or you fight late. Sometimes too late.
Nah. I’d legitimately rather kill myself than fight for my government.
Will you turn into spaghetti?
Which one?
USA
Save a shell for me. ♥️✨
War sounds kinda fun tho (please don’t look at my avatar)
Wasn’t that amaricas strategy in the past 2 world wars. Like we basically just waited for everyone to wear echother down.
Until someone was like, check this MF out just sitting there, they’re just waiting it out for everyone else to wear each other down!
Incidentally, this was Russia’s plan, too. In fact, still is. We should really pounce on those fuckers while they’re weak.
that’s the main issue though, at least in the US, many citizens feel it would be better to have a complete clear of the entire country so they likely just wouldn’t fight if invaded, the amount of anarchists and just anti-government folk have been gradually rising ever since the pandemic. It doesn’t seem like health wise the country is doing well regardless of the economy status. It is super demoralizing seeing all the news platforms only focus on external wars or how the south is arguing over if it’s legal to jail someone over abortion that happend outside of state line, meanwhile a good portion of folk despite having one of the lowest unemployment rates in years is still living barely paycheck by paycheck. Most feel there’s just nothing they can do.
100% agree. The only thing that makes me feel better about a lot of the dumb tankie shit people say here is that I know most of them are under the age of 20.
I said dumb shit when I was young too. But I grew out of it. I’m hoping these kids do too.
Nah. I’m in my 30s. Fuck dying face down in the mud in a foreign country while protecting ruling class control over others. It’s not a sign of maturity to claim fealty to a system that doesnt care if you live or die, so long as you make your landlord and boss richer.
lol… okay. No worries. When the time comes… others will do that for you so you can sit on your ass and complain about how bad everything is while doing nothing to change it.
Don’t bother responding. Blocked you like I have everyone else with shit attitudes similar to yours.
We’ll keep your Mrs happy
Doubtful, she doesn’t date children.
You thought to yourself, “now that’s a zinger. You’ve done it again, Pratai of Bangalore, you son of a gun did it again!”
And the kid who said they’d “keep my Ms happy?” I’m assuming you responded in kind to them as well?
Ok boomer.
I love it when you kids make it easy to know who has anything useful to say- and who to block from my feed.
Oh no. Anyways…
Then you became an enlightened centrist?
I figured I’d just fuck off out of here before shit goes down. In fact I have no idea why I’m even living in this shithole instead of a paradise island. It costs about 1/10th as much, is tropical, beautiful, and so poor nobody would ever think of invading it. I don’t know about you but I can make that work.
Something tells me you’re from the USA. There are other Western governments, and other places that are arguably better (as in, more comfortable/safe) to live in. Many people have dependents, or things to loose that they value over one’s life.
So yeah, it may be an option for you but that beautiful tropical island won’t fit millions upon millions of people living in the collective West.
I hate the draft
I’ll defend my country, but I’m not going to engage in an armed conflict overseas.
IMO, as long as it’s not directly threatening me and my life, then I will simply see another WW as old people who are angry at other old people, sending me off to die for their grudge.
No thanks chief. Stick me in prison if you’re so inclined but I’m not about to kill some poor kid I’ve never met and I don’t have anything against, just because you can’t use your words.
✌️
Where does the line for “directly threatening” go tho?
Basically two things: if there’s combat happening on my countries land, and if there’s a well known intent to bring the fighting to my country.
See this is what happens when you stop having nuke drills in school. Kids these days think we will do anything other than get vaporized lol. Duck and cover mother fucker.
Nah this is what happens when you turn your back on young people and implement neoliberal economic policies for 40 years.
Yeah duck and cover that’ll help especially under a school desk 👍
The duck and cover thing does two main things. First, it helps to protect you from debris that would kill you when the bomb itself wouldn’t. Secondly, the most important thing is to give you the false sense of security in knowing what to do.
If you are within range of the blast, just enjoy the show after the flash because it will be a once in a lifetime sight.
