Neat! Deeply ineffective communication! Starting to feel more like reddit by the day!
There was a short time at the beginning of the user influx on Lemmy were it actually felt friendly. Now everyone starts getting mad again. I think it’s in part because the critical mass of edgelords and otherwise hateful people has been reached. And it’s contagious or something.
It’s honestly hilarious every time someone tells me to go back to Reddit
Yeah, people are starting to catch on that federation for a Reddit style platform is not a good idea. Who knew it was actually deeply deeply flawed and poorly thought out?
What is the best alternative in your opinion?
A new federated platform that is self-run, hosts your identity only and allows you to interact from websites from your own app on your own phone or computer, to start. None of this signing up 500 trillion accounts for each and every website garbage.
No more Lemmy instances hosting content from other servers. The content should be downloaded from the server you’re trying to interact with to the user’s system, and only what little content the user chooses to see, and is deleted like a cache as soon as the user closes it out.
No more fucking downvoting 😠
One account, one unique cryptographic identifier or ID tied to machines so people can’t make alt accounts or botnets
There’s a LOT Lemmy and the fediverse as a whole needs to fix
I agree with most of this, although I think that downvotes are an important part of platforms like these. They allow shit takes to get their visibility reduced.
That’s the whole problem. No one’s posts should be affected by the opinions of others and the fact that they are incentivizes all of the problems we are facing. People are making alts, brigadeering and building botnets to get around being downvoted and that breaks the system.
Downvotes are not legitimate in any way at all except that they make people feel better and we can’t build a future based on such auspices.
The main issue is this:
Say 1,000 people are arguing over an issue with 10 different sides, on a platform where you can upvote as many comments as you want. 250 people agree with one side, and the other nine sides have no more than 150 people in agreement. In this case, the comment arguing this side would have 250 points.
Now, in a system without downvotes, this would rise to the top. However, say all 750 other people disagree with the side and can downvote it. In this case it would have -500 points. Let’s also say that the 250 people in agreement with this point also downvote all the other comments that disagree with them (in true Reddit fashion). The second most popular opinion would be sitting at -100 points. Basically, downvotes allow massively unpopular opinions to be shoved to the bottom.
Bots and brigading are significant problems that need attention on platforms such as these, but removing downvotes isn’t the answer.
That presumes downvotes represent honest disagreement, which we both know and I have proven they don’t.
Because now one asshole with 500 different alts across the fediverse can take any post he wants and massively downvote it, enforcing consequential action against opinions he doesn’t like, and no one is the wiser.
That’s why we deal with the one having 250 upvotes, and give 500 upvotes to whoever disagrees with it, letting that opinion rise to the top instead.
Downvoted
A new federated platform that is self-run, hosts your identity only and allows you to interact from websites from your own app on your own phone or computer, to start. None of this signing up 500 trillion accounts for each and every website garbage.
But Lemmy can literally do this. I am doing it right now. I’m the only user on my instance.
It’s done in the most ass way possible and isn’t really suited for being an app for one individual. We need one specifically made for like one person.
How would the content get on the server?
This guy would put it there
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
And that’s how you became the president of Norway!
Removed by mod
But do you have enough that you knew that Norway doesn’t HAVE a president and never did? 🤔
My own ancestry, living family and self is exclusively Scandinavian (specifically Danish), going all the way back to the 1400s, hence the first half of my username 😁
Removed by mod
Ayo I’m in the screenshot letsa fucking GOOOOOOOOOO-
For context, Bungiefan_ak has no fewer than 4 alts that I’ve seen (all on different instances with the same username) and has spent his time on !memes@lemmy.ml continuously spamming heavily transphobic, homophobic, and objectifying sexist “memes”. Just about every one of his alts is now banned but I’m sure more will pop up.
Now, why the fuck he cares so much about pirates at this point, I haven’t a clue…
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@lemmy.world (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@lemdro.id (modlog)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@lemmy.ca (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@reddthat.com (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@startrek.website (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@lemmy.dbzer0.com (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@lemm.ee (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@sopuli.xyz (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@geddit.social (modlog)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@sh.itjust.works (modlog, banned)
- /u/Bungiefan_ak@literature.cafe (modlog, was denied entry by chad admin @gabe@literature.cafe lmao)
There’s likely going to be more
Doing the lord’s work. What a shitfest of a modlog, real winner this guy is
Edit: dear God he keeps MAKING MORE. This dude seriously needs to get a life or something
I’ll keep an eye out, and I sort everything by new anyway.
Yeah we banned them on reddthat 2 days ago. I’m glad to see I’m not an outlier. Initially we should a 7 day ban should suffice. But then that user decided to message the admin directly and insult them.
Probably the fastest way to get your account banned.
Edit: The message in question. 👀 (Attempted spoiler open if you dare)
!
!<you have all the qualities of a womanly woman
real “breasted boobily” energy
I believe the spoiler tag is the following on Lemmy
::: spoiler spoiler label sh*t to hide :::spoiler label
sh*t to hide
Wwwow that’s some offensive bullshit
For context, Bungiefan_ak has no fewer than 4 alts that I’ve seen (all on different instances with the same username)
Spending that much money and time stanning for fucking Bungie of all decaying and bloated and corrupt treat companies is really something.
and has spent his time on !memes@lemmy.ml continuously spamming heavily transphobic, homophobic, and objectifying sexist “memes”.
OF FUCKING COURSE.
Probably because one of his alts was on dbzer0 and was banned for transphobia
Oh. Oh that makes so much more sense. His sad little idea of vengeance is to now attack anything piracy related and get dbzero ostracized from LW just because pirates have more morals than he does lol
Out of curiosity, just someone not supporting trans people or lgbtq are getting banned or they are taking asshole behaviour and spewing hate speech?
Edit: good fucking world. I am not against lgbtq. I am supporting it. I am a bi curious guy. I am all in for their civil rights. I was asking a question about why that guy was banned. For asshole behaviour or just having a different opinion. I don’t believe just for telling someone doesn’t care about lgbtq is not a reason for ban.
“Not supporting” can be silence too. No concern trolling necessary. Or welcome.
Well, there’s a pretty wide spectrum in “not supporting”. Can range between “cool bro, not my thing but you do you just leave me out of it”, which is a rational albeit reserved response… or you could be like Bungiefan, who spams memes calling transgender people pedophiles (multiple times).
If not supporting means you feel that we don’t deserve civil rights then yeah they should be banned
is “not supporting someone” your newspeak for being asshole? because i am pretty sure that any group of people doesn’t give a flying fuck about you or anyone else not “supporting them”, just let them be and they will be happy.
My experience is that when someone discovered they need certain civil rights but don’t have them, often staring down thr barrels of police service pistols, then yes, they give all the flying fucks in the universe about being supported.
This is one of those reasons that Leopards Ate My Face is a known trope and community. Sadly, the ones who empathize already have their share of leopard teeth marked scars.
Given I and many people I know are not going to survive genocide in the US, if ever it goes full post-Wannsee, I have little patience for anyone who does not stand at least against the transnational white power movement (aka the white Christian nationalist movement). That includes even conservatives who wish the GOP would less extreme like in the Nixon and Reagan years. That train was always going to inevitably lead to the political crisis in the US, today.
you missed my point and you wrote three angry paragraphs about it, good for you! 🤣
My experience is that
my experience is that when someone tries to put inequality sign between being an asshole and “not supporting them”, he is trying to make an excuse for being an asshole.
what do you even mean by “supporting them”? do you bring them food and your old clothes every sunday or something? how do you express on the internet that you “don’t support” someone/something?
when i am indifferent to a topic, whatever that topic is, i don’t feel the need to go on the internet and express that indifference. when i talk about something, it is either because i am for or against it. so when you are being called for being an asshole, you weren’t just “not supporting them”, whoever them is in the context, you were probably an asshole and now you are trying to mask it.
(to prevent further confusion - i am aware you are not the person i originally replied to, so any “you” in this text is just a figure of speech)
The guy posts anti-LGBT memes everywhere. He’s one of these losers that likes to use “cuck” in his comments. I’d ban on that alone. Hell, I’d ban anyone for being a Trump supporter or a tankie. Then again, that’s why I’m not a mod, never was, and shouldn’t be.
m
That would explain why he’s such a snob about piracy on his Reddit subs. For context on Reddit this person (pretty sure they’re the same person) banned me from a sub he moderates (I believe it was r/3dshacks) and he tried to get me banned from r/EmulationOnAndroid and also weirdly enough r/teenagers he failed at getting me banned from them by the way because those subs aren’t anti-piracy bungie stans like he is, simply put they don’t care.
But yeah he was a real loser, I think he got removed from most of the subs he moderated by Reddit though, and the participation in the protest has all but killed the remaining Sub. From Allmighty powermod to a pathetic whiny troll (though I guess he still was a whiny troll before, he just seemed more respectable from the outside).
From being a power mod to just pestering mods. Is the planet healing after all?
From r/3dshacks I could understand, but from r/EmulationOnAndroid??? they be pirating emulators on that sub, they do not care lmao
Keep in mind he isn’t even a mod there, he was trying to get me banned because he was under the delusion that they cared as much about Piracy as he did, they didn’t end up banning me, but he did argue with me for a while, even said that Citra Devs support his harassment, before quickly trying to retract it.
I reported that mother fucker. Scum like him are easy to spot and clean up.
As did I, multiple times.
Maybe he just likes to argue with people. I have 1 such classmate. His “opinions” are always just opposite to who he’s talking with. But apparently outside of school he’s normal.
It’s easy to be a contrarian when opinions are not something you actually hold, but simply hats to be swapped out or discarded as necessary.
Kid’s probably on the debate team, they live to argue. Good luck figuring out their real opinions though, they might not even have any.
I love arguing with people, I’ll even argue points I don’t necessarily believe, but that’s not the same as trolling. The difference is doing it in good faith
Trolls aren’t trying to convince anyone or engage in debate, they’re in it to russle jimmies, own the libs, or whatever. There’s not really an intellectual aspect to it, it’s arguing on emotion
These are the alts, counts, scores, and ban status my instance is aware of:
name | domain | banned | posts | comments | post_score | comment_score --------------+------------------+--------+-------+----------+------------+--------------- Bungiefan_ak | lemmy.world | t | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 Bungiefan_ak | lemmy.dbzer0.com | t | 0 | 2 | 0 | -14 Bungiefan_ak | startrek.website | t | 0 | 0 | -35 | -4 Bungiefan_ak | reddthat.com | t | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 Bungiefan_ak | lemm.ee | t | 0 | 7 | 0 | -119 Bungiefan_ak | lemdro.id | f | 0 | 0 | 0 | -22 Bungiefan_ak | geddit.social | f | 0 | 0 | 0 | -30 Bungiefan_ak | sopuli.xyz | t | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 Bungiefan_ak | lemmy.ca | t | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 Bungiefan_ak | sh.itjust.works | t | 0 | 7 | 0 | -287Well that’s a record, not a single positive score in sight from any of the accounts
16 comments, 512 downvotes 🥲
Quite the sense of pride and accomplishment this Bungie fan must be feeling, huh
Trekkies don’t fuck around apparently.
We do not 😂
that guy is the most succesfull troll in history. he single-handedly created havoc that big that russian trollfarm wouldn’t have to be ashamed for and you continue to give him audience. just ban him and move on.
Hexbear is one of the oldest lemmy instances, but only recently started federating.
Are you suggesting that for the last 3+ years, someone was running a troll farm where the trolls could only talk to each other?
not sure if you are serious, but no, that’s not what i am suggesting.
Oh, sorry then, I must have misunderstood.
Since federation, a lot of libs who’ve never encountered a leftist opinion have been calling us russian or chinese bots for not supporting the latest imperialist adventures.
Literally no one mentioned hexbear, or leftism in general, before you did. Quite a victim complex you got there.
don’t take me wrong, i am pretty sure i am not in the same boat with comrade who thinks that “not supporting the latest imperialist adventures” is some clever newspeak, but your comment was first time i have heard about “hexbear” - whatever that is.
clever newspeak
If that’s what you want to call it. I was just using the old-timey term to contextualize US actions in Ukraine/China/Iran/DPRK/Niger among the hundred other wars waged for the same purpose over the last couple centuries.
That’s so funny, I’m just waiting when lemmy .world will defederate .ml and beehaw because of them.
How do you people find these alts. I scroll by, like or don’t, but I have no idea if they are related.
Do you guys have a 7th sense or something?
He’s using the same username on different instances, not the sharpest tool in the shed.
For context, Bungiefan_ak has no fewer than 4 alts that I’ve seen (all on different instances with the same username)
I mean, this is one of the benefits of the lemmyverse - using the same username across different instances. It’s not subversive.
That’s not to lend a defence of this guy - just didn’t want having Lemmy alts presented as a bad thing.
Having Lemmy alts is not a bad thing. Using them to circumvent bans very much is, tho.
At least he makes them super easy to find by reusing the identical name lol
The troll doesn’t care, at all. It got banned clearly or it would be trolling here directly, it’s retaliation. Child psychology will tell you everything you’d need to know about that “user”.
Maybe we shouldn’t feed that troll ?
I think in that case a shadowban would be the best way to do it. Or an IP ban if that’s possible.
In any case this is giving him even more reason to keep on harassing people for attention.
An entire instance just fed the troll, pretty sure the cats out of the bag on this one…
And yet you just yeeted all this attention to the troll, so congrats. You got played.
letsa fucking GOOOOOOOOOO-
I buy most of my content, steam mostly for games, have spotify, buy music from bandcamp for DJ sets, at least my favorites, have family netflix, HBO, disney +, although I don’t use those as much since they are mostly full of crap. Sometimes I even buy/rent a movie if it is not available in those and I can’t find any torrent, or just out of convenience. I produce music and buy all my audio software (ableton and fuckton of plugins) because I don’t want to deal with the hassle of using pirated versions. I buy ebooks every now and then too, although with that I also admittely pirate some, especially when the author is dead, in which case I really don’t feel any guilt for pirating it. I also use patreon often and support creators that way.
I still think piracy needs to be an option, so streaming services can’t have their way and we are just forced to use their enshittified platforms. I avoid it, because I understand not everything can be open source, and nothing get’s done without revenue. I don’t pirate from small authors/creators.
All the while musicians get basically fucking nothing from huge streaming services profiting from their labor. Series get cancelled left and right despite good reception because they were not profitable enough, although still profitable, because netflix is only interested making next big hit. Games are filled with microtransactions and kernel level tracking (anti cheat), forced online features in single player game and sometimes games one bought are just made unavailable, like with old mobile games (case in point, dead space mobile). Professional software is often moved to predatory subscription models and paywalled updates to the software, like Avid, Waves.
And people still cirlejerk about piracy being the worst thing to intellectual property ever. Problem isn’t piracy, problem is small creators are payed so little from listens/views/whatever that the can barely get by, and have to make alternate source of income via patreon or some other stuff. Piracy won’t even make a dent in that.
Luckily in every category some people/companies are pushing back but all of this is just case in point why we need piracy. When I get around releasing music/games, I don’t mind piracy at all, might even put my own tunes on pirate sites out of spite. Current intellectual property laws are fucking joke and only benefit the largest creators in their respective fields.
You can summarize that in just simply saying: capitalism is the problem. Just with anything else, capitalism doesn’t care to give us the best entertainment, it simply will benefit the ones with the most profit. So long we live under capitalism, this will be the underlying problem. Capitalism doesn’t care about what people want or need.
Same. I make good money today and I can pay for the stuff I use, but when I get some nostalgia and feel like playing a game from my childhood like The Little Samson, my only option is to go cry on a corner because the game isn’t available anywhere and is worth 3 thousand dollars minimum - which even if I paid would never go to the folks who made the game anyway.
When I was a teenager I couldn’t afford anything. I didn’t even had a computer or a video-game of my own, I started working at a Lan house when I was 14 just to be able to afford an occasional snack. I played a bunch of SNES games at that time thanks to emulators - if piracy wasn’t an option I would never have played them and probably wouldn’t have gotten into videogames that much. 6 years later I managed to buy a DS and a couple games. Since then I’ve bought several consoles and a ton of games for each of them. Nintendo made several thousand dollars from me over the years and that would never have happened if I didn’t have access to SNES pirated games 20 years ago.
I even got to make a game of my own now, which directly benefitted from piracy as well, as I noticed a bunch of people playing pirated versions on YouTube, with comments on those videos mentioning they liked it and bought it. My main concern related to piracy at that time was that those players were not getting bug fixes and new stuff I added to the game.
In truth, there is no downside to piracy - it’s a net gain for everyone involved as long as the paying customers get to have a better, more comfortable experience with not having to deal with any hassle to consume your content. But if you make it harder for me to consume your content than the high seas does, well that’s on you.
After Adobe fucking me out of thousands, I swore I’d make sure I never gave them another cent. if there weren’t greedy scumbags I would’ve paid for upgrades (hundreds of bucks) to the master collection every 5-10 years. Now, because that wasn’t enough for them, they’ll never EVER get another dime from me. I encourage pirating their shit because fuck them. What they did to their customers was unconscionable. When I called to ask them to make this right, after essentially breaking their promise to me that this enormous purchase was an investment, their best offer? 25% of my first year of cloud. Lol… Would’ve still felt like the shaft of they gave it to me free for 5 years.
Amine
What a fucking loser crying about intellectual property. Love live piracy and anarchy. Be gay do crime! 🏴 🏴☠️ 🏳️🌈 🏳️⚧️ yo ho ho 🦜
its actually amazing how internet culture went from this anarcho-utopianism where information just wants to be free, maaan to reddit style races to the normie bottom. who gives a shit about intellectual property other than bowtie spinning economist dickheads and the beltway lanyard class?
In fairness, I think it’s because the tech barrier of entry went down, WAYYY down. “Free Data” is an easy sell to people who were dialing into usenet in the 90’s, and us stupid ameteur hackers who would break into systems like they were puzzles because we thought it was cool and the maximum penalty was a fine and community service (the good old days, we all did it at least once and thought we were Zero Cool… unless we thought Zero Cool was lame, whatever). A lot of the people who think IP jives well with the internet were the ones who looked at me weird when I said I had online friends circa 2000, and who couldn’t understand how I couldn’t make some party because I “had to spend Saturday hanging out on IRC for my D&D campaign”
Even more technical folks now, they just never lived what made the internet beautiful when it was smaller. Back when “FOSS” was “Free as in Beer” and fuck that Richard Stallman with his “free as in speech” bullshit. They don’t remember how this dark storm of people’s hobbies turning into other people’s IP, people like Bill Gates stealing the foundations of technology to build his empire (for all the good he does now, he was truly evil to his core).
Ok, old-fart rant over.
Back when “FOSS” was “Free as in Beer” and fuck that Richard Stallman with his “free as in speech” bullshit
FOSS has always been about “free as in speech”, and Stallman has said that it’s more ethical to illegally download closed-source software than to pay for it.
FOSS vs. proprietary is tangential to the discussion over filesharing, anyway, because it addresses different issues. FOSS isn’t good because it’s zero-cost, it’s good because it respects user freedoms.
FOSS has always been about “free as in speech”,
If you’re being pedantic, then yes, because Stallman coined “Free Software” as a term and that rolled into the acronym “FOSS”. If you’re talking about what we actually thought, then no.
FOSS vs. proprietary is tangential to the discussion over filesharing, anyway, because it addresses different issues. FOSS isn’t good because it’s zero-cost, it’s good because it respects user freedoms.
From a totally different angle, it’s good because it does more to empower innovation and creative expression than IP ever did, yet innovation and creative expression were always the stated goals of IP. Because of that, it’s a lot less tengential a discussion than things like filesharing, which also empowers creative expression. Cost-free, unlimited access to art is the best way to get art in the hands of everyone. And that is “free as in Beer”.
It’s funny, I’ve never met anybody who’d have that kind of experience and use the word “hacker” in this meaning simultaneously.
A lot of the people who think IP jives well with the internet were the ones who looked at me weird when I said I had online friends circa 2000
This checks out.
Back when “FOSS” was “Free as in Beer” and fuck that Richard Stallman with his “free as in speech” bullshit.
I remember exactly the opposite, people being much more acutely aware of the difference, and Stallman being much more popular than now.
people like Bill Gates stealing the foundations of technology
Clarification? Movies about Steve Jobs excluded.
It’s funny, I’ve never met anybody who’d have that kind of experience and use the word “hacker” in this meaning simultaneously.
I’m slightly too young to use “hacker” the traditional old-MIT way. Maybe only by 2-3 years. I was a stupid kid playing with linux in the mid-90’s and I hacked into a stupid municipal dialup BBS and got root, then neither did nor changed anything because it was “cool” to prove I could figure it out. Then “Hackers” came out and I ran that movie on repeat for a few weeks and then moved on to actually learning to code.
I remember exactly the opposite, people being much more acutely aware of the difference, and Stallman being much more popular than now.
There’s those of us who were avoiding Redhat for shittier distros (like Slackware back then imo) because we didn’t want to buy anyone else’s beer for us to contribute for free. Maybe we were fewer than it seemed. I was that ugy giving out Ubuntu Warty CD’s having this weird pipe-dream of the tech world all going free-as-in-beer (yeah, I know they’re a for-profit. A lot of people didn’t get that back then and just saw a better Debian). Maybe again it relates to the exact date?
Clarification? Movies about Steve Jobs excluded.
Mr. Gates started back when “hacker” didn’t mean “hacker” (as you point out). He would pick up freely-given tech early on, and was then one of the first to start crying IP complaints and asserting his ownership of his product. Wherever you stand on the opinion, Gates’ Open Letter to Hobbyists started his really terrible reputation, since many hobbyests accurately alleged he built his business on tech they were using/granting for free. I never knew the facts of the 1977 BASIC case where he was sued over ownership of BASIC and won, but then in the 80’s he notoriously started his attitude of embrace, extend, extinguish. Everything from his behavior related to DOS, his ripping off Lotus Notes, etc. One could simply say “he was a good businessman” and they’re allowed to feel that way. If you say “hey, you can have as much of my water as you want for free” and I drain your lake so you have to buy water back from me, technically what I’m doing is legal. That’s basically what many people felt Gates did.
EDIT: And I don’t have good references, but I remember some quotes from him as his reputation got bad, that the hobbyists shouldn’t have been giving software out for free anyway. That the real problem was that they should have been demanding money for their work and/or keeping their ownership. One could argue his behavior was some of what spearheaded the carefully-crafted OSS licensing in the 80’s.
It is unspeakably bizarre to me that people who know how to turn on a computer forgot that Gates is Satan’s personal programmer at some point during the 21st century. I take it as an article of faith and my younger Millennial and Zoomer friends think I’m bullying a nice old man.
for all the good he does now
None of what he does is good. The only thing he does is lie.
Fair enough. I wasn’t trying to pass explicit judgement. His reputation is just a lot better now than it used to be, whether earned or not.
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Good bot, but Piped is broken right now
for real! I just noticed a show I wanted to watch Star Trek: Prodigy has been removed from Paramount+ for no fucking reason. The only reason I have that shit is because i’m a huge trekkie and I want them to make more and I think that Paramount+ is the only way they make any money for Trek and my roommate pays for it. Thank for for torrents. The show isn’t even watchable from any streaming service atm so I HAVE to pirate it. Normally I don’t for Star Trek simply because of how many episodes all the shows are combined but fuck it.
If I’d want to rewatch Babylon V, I’d pirate it. Same for Star Wars (not even talking about despecialized editions, I just don’t want to give a dime to Disney).
for sure
Corporations when some dude steals a copy of a 30 year old movie: 😡
Corporations when they steal billions from their workers salaries every year: 🤑
We also pay for their bailouts and subsidies. Piracy is ethical.
Removed by mod
See, this is the stuff I was talking about in my other comment. Too many arguments in favor of piracy are these little one off, no context one-liners that sound snappy/true, but lack nuance.
It’s not that you don’t have a point, but you need to actually tease this out a little more, and also addressed the fact that most people who are pirating are not doing it for that reason. There is always unwillingness by piracy advocates to acknowledge that some people do it just because they want free shit. It’s not a moral stance, it’s not a social movement, it’s not a financial necessity, they just don’t want to pay for it. 
I definitely don’t ever pirate. I would never use transmission or the pirate bay to acquire what I want. But if I did, which, of course I don’t, I would admit it’s because of a combination of 1) convenience, 2) the ability to deploy where I want it, more specifically 3) so I can put it on my server to stream on my network, and 4) because of fears of the programming being taken down, such as streaming services.
I would also be lying if I said I wouldn’t do it because I don’t want to spend money on it. That’s just me being honest.
My point being that whatever your reasoning, I just don’t like when people throw out bullshit excuses or examples that only apply to .001% of people engaging in piracy.
I agree about snippy one liners but I’m also not invested in this topic enough to go deeply into it. Maybe not until someone engages. I just browse lemmy, I share thoughts. I’m just here to hang out. If I want to learn then I read a book. I try not to take this site or myself on this site too seriously. I also like how you responded in somewhat long form. I like that a lot, and I’m hoping one day I can join tildes.net and participate in longer conversations.
That said, I don’t think it’s a bullshit response and I don’t think I need to elaborate on how subsidies work or how deregulation has siphoned money from the public and given it to private companies. For me, it doesn’t matter why an individual chooses to pirate or how they justify it. I see it as a form of protest and anyone participating in the protest for any reason is doing it for the right reason.
I think it’s interesting that people jump to the defence of copyright, or question the morality of piracy on the grounds of what damage it might cause to creators and publishers. Tax laws - old (austerity taxes), new (lowered corporate taxes), and proposed (100% inheritance tax) are much more significant than any effect piracy will ever have. This is what we should be debating and arguing about, not with piracy. It’s peanuts.
If you go through my comment history, you’ll see that I repeatedly am in favor of most piracy arguments. I am just talking about bad defenses here. 
I’m also not sure why you’re saying you don’t really care yet took the time to write all of that. 
Ok. I’m not trying to get into anything here with you. I’ve said what I wanted to say.
There is always unwillingness by piracy advocates to acknowledge that some people do it just because they want free shit.
Some people do it just because they want free shit. I don’t care. It’s still good.
I think you’re missing the thrust of my point. I am not passing judgment on whether or not it’s OK to want free stuff. I am saying making excuses to pretend you don’t undermines the pro-piracy position.
You were responding to:
We also pay for their bailouts and subsidies. Piracy is ethical.
There was nothing in this statement to suggest the motive behind piracy had anything to do whether or not it is ethical. There was nothing in this statement to indicate that the author was engaging in piracy for purely altruistic reasons.
I don’t see how the author was “making excuses to pretend [they] don’t” “want free stuff.” And I don’t see how arguing that piracy is ethical is implicitly arguing that you only do it for altruistic reasons. I think bringing up the selfish motives behind piracy without prompting is an implicit admission that there is a connection between selfish motives and the ethics of piracy. And finally, I think parsimony is effective.
I was widening the scope of the conversation and discussing a frustration, not accusing them of anything. I can see why my intentions were unclear though, that’s on me.
Taking money for a 30-year-old movie is pretty much government-assisted stealing, if I’m honest. Copyright in the USA originally had a term of 14 years.
Here’s the thing: copyright term includes the life of the author plus a fixed period. So the works you and I nobodies produce will eventually become public domain after we die. HOWEVER, and this is just my underatanding of the laws and I’m definitely not a lawyer, not big name IPs because they are not registered under the human author, but a corporation that is both a person under the law and effectively immortal. So even if it’s two thousand years after George Lucas dies, Star Wars will still be copyrighted as long as Disney exists, and even if Disney dies, part of the process of corporate “death” is liquidation where they sell their IPs to the next asshole corporation.
Am I wrong? Please correct me if I am.
Afaik you are not correct. Copyrights for a corporation also have an expiration date.
Except – The expiration date can be extended by just continuing to use the IP – Ever wondered why movies get remakes/reimaginings every 30 years or so? We meme about them being “Out of ideas”, but really it’s so they can hold down their copyright.
Except – The expiration date can be extended by just continuing to use the IP – Ever wondered why movies get remakes/reimaginings every 30 years or so? We meme about them being “Out of ideas”, but really it’s so they can hold down their copyright.
No, that’s just wrong. At one point, early Marvel contracts had clauses that allowed the movie producer to keep the contract going if they continued to put out movies. When Marvel got big (post-Iron Man), they had been trying to claw back those contracts. That’s why Fox kept putting out an X-Man movie every few years, and Sony kept putting out Spiderman.
But, that has nothing to do with copyrights, and all of the remakes are just shit that Hollywood does for memberberries.
Using an IP doesn’t extend the date at which it becomes public. Movies get remakes etc because they want to make more money. Some movie companies have deals around IP with the original IP owner that revert if they don’t use the IP, but that’s separate from when the IP goes public. Mickey Mouse for example will become public domain in 2024 unless disney successfully lobby for the length of copyright to be extended (again).
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jul/03/mickey-mouse-disney-copyright-expiry
Winnie the Pooh recently became public domain for example, which is how we got the god awful 18+ movie “blood and honey”.
Sony for example have exclusive movie rights to the Spider-Man IP in perpetuity as long as they release a movie every 5.75 years at most, otherwise it reverts back to Marvel. That’s why they keep rebooting it and releasing sequels no matter how garbage they are - it’s better for them to release a trash movie that bombs than it is to lose the most valuable superhero IP in the world.
Now that Stan Lee is dead, however, there is a countdown set for when the Spider-Man IP becomes public domain, and no amount of movie or comic releases will delay that.
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Nintendo after removing Mario: Mega Cum (1995) for purchase and it’s gets pirated by 30 people
Fuck intellectual property, all my friends hate the intellectual property
“Intellectual property” is a corpo term, and using it accepts their framing. They’re trying to conflate copyright, trademark, and patent law with property law.
I mean, that’s exactly what all three of those were intended to do – carry property law over into a domain where it clearly doesn’t make sense. so it’s fully
. none of them should exist.Seconded. Enclosing the commons and doing a little primitive accumulation to actual knowledge. Love when a private corporations own colors, random snippets of genome, common words and phrases, and endless inventions that they’re squatting on to ensure they don’t compete with their own products.
Lemmy.world admins are the worst fucking dweebs on the fediverse.
I need to check out this community to improve my piracy game 🏴☠️
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LMAO
I genuinely do understand concerns about legal issues and the risk of facilitating illegal activities- but its not even hosted on their instance, why would it mater that the communities EXIST. They’re literally hosted by someone else…?
But it is hosted on your home server.
When you subscribe to a community, your home server downloads the content and passes it on to you.
This is not like when The Pirate Bay was allowed to live because it only hosted torrent files and not copyrighted content, in the fediverse, you copy the content to your own server, and pass it on to the client/user, which means hosting the content.
It’s a good thing that community doesn’t host anything illegal then. The argument doesn’t make sense because the community isn’t spreading copyrighted content.
It’s like banning true crime communities because they discuss illegal things (gratuitous killing is pretty illegal in pretty much 99.9% of all cultures around the world - possibly 100%).
I must admit i don’t know exactly what is and isn’t in this community, but The Pirate Bay ended being closed because it “facilitated piracy” or something like that. (Of course it didn’t actually close but the legal loophole was closed, so legal action could be taken)
I don’t remember details but essentially it was decided (in some court, somewhere, i guess) that linking to illegally copied material was also illegal.
IIRC the new loophole became encoding the link to what ever you wanted to copy, for example as base64. That’s what’s done here, right? (Please correct me if i’m wrong)
My point is that this may, in a legal sense, actually be spreading copyrighted material, and the risk of being sued (no matter if you are in the right) is a very good reason to not run the risk, since the legal system favors deep pockets and good lawyers over challenging the limits of the law.
For good measure, i want to point out that i am absolutely for the free sharing of knowledge and culture. The whole world gains from free access to this. I just also sympathize with not wanting to be a martyr in this battle.
Also, as the person i replied to earlier made me aware, the admin of LW is apparently a homophobic asshole, so fuck that guy.
I don’t remember details but essentially it was decided (in some court, somewhere, i guess) that linking to illegally copied material was also illegal.
This proposed change has been discussed in congress, but big tech is fighting it hard, as it would make moderation of social media very expensive and/or restrictive. Basically, certain parties want to hold platforms legally responsible for the content they host, even if that content was posted by users.
It would make it nearly impossible to legally operate a FOSS platform like Lemmy. Fortunately for us, it’s one of the few areas where the interests align for both big tech and the common man.
IRC the new loophole became encoding the link to what ever you wanted to copy, for example as base64.
Base64 encoding is not a legal loophole, it’s a method to avoid automated content filters on platforms like Reddit and Discord. Encoding a link in base64 offers no legal protections.
I believe we are reffering to two different, but related things.
As i understand your comment, you are reffering to “the platform is responsible for what the users upload to it”, or rather whether they are responsible and i am reffering to “(eg.) Torrent sites don’t host copyrighted content, they only link to it”.
My knowledge about the latter is from many years ago, so i might be wholly or partly wrong.
The former i think is a really interesting balancing act, since i believe that huge platforms that earns billions on hosting user content should be forced to use some of that profit to remove dangerous content, but if that obligation was put on small platforms like Lemmy instances or even the initial Twitter or Facebook, right when they lanched, they would be never be able to get up and running, which would cement the current Big Tech monopolies.
I am not very knowledgable about this specific topic, but i believe the European Unions attempts at solving this is distinguishing between the giants and everybody else, which again, is a great balancing act.
Base64 encoding is not a legal loophole, it’s a method to avoid automated content filters on platforms like Reddit and Discord. Encoding a link in base64 offers no legal protections.
Thank you for correcting me. It makes a lot more sense that you can’t just encode something to make it legal.
I don’t understand the block either. That community doesn’t share copyrighted material. From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t link to copyrighted material. It does have very open pro piracy discussion and discussion about tools that would be used, but neither of those things are illegal.
That’s a very fair argument and I appreciate you explaining that, though I don’t think it changes my stance on whether I agree with their decision. I feel there’s still a difference between hosting it directly vs the federated nature of the platform meaning that the content is copied so it can be served to an end user. Banning the communities feels a bit knee jerk to me, and it doesn’t help that the person pushing for the changes is clearly not interested in reasonable discussions about how the platform we’re on should or shouldn’t dictate ethical choices for their users (and is also a raging homophobe).
Issues with the person pushing mods to make this change aside (since thats essentially irrelevant to whether it was the right call in a vacuum. Doesn’t matter that the guy sucks), the decision doesn’t sit right with me, even if I can empathize with the provided rationale.
I feel there’s still a difference between hosting it directly vs the federated nature of the platform meaning that the content is copied so it can be served to an end user
Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. If you “federate” a server with CP for example, you are hosting CP. If it’s not brought to your attention, maybe you have a safe harbor exception (and maybe not), but if it IS brought to your attention, you are required to act on it to not be liable. And I airquote “federate” because as I learned Lemmy’s architecture, I’m not sure “federated” is the best word to describe it. When I think of federated, I think of something like an orchistrator. A tool where you are directed to the authoritative cluster for content, but not required to join in on it. In such a world, there would be three states - (1) I have a copy of this data, (2) I don’t have a copy of this data but link/index it, (3) I refuse to index this data
Lacking #2, I believe, really creates a lot of liability.
I believe even linking or indexing can be problematic. I know Google receives DMCA notices to remove entries from search results. I think your solution is probably the better solution though compared to a lot of others.
One point I would make though is that no one is hosting in this instance pirated material and therefore the other instances are not hosting pirated material. The pirate community is having very open pro-piracy discussions though. Discussion of illegal activity is not the same as illegal activity.
Oh absolutely. I totally agree, but I’ve seen/heard of situations where talking about illegal activity has been targetted by authorities as “empowering” or “enciting” it. Silly shit, though the authorities haven’t gone full nuclear on piracy like they did 20 years ago.
And that’s an issue, and suggests some flaws with Lemmy’s architecture. Lemmy UI’s should be indexers, no more. This is probably why we keep seeing the push-and-pull of “we must create a giant web” vs" fuck that, small is better". Each lemmy instance is a full-fledged forum solution, storing a copy of the entire network of all other forum solutions we’re interested in. Of course it’ll never succeed at either.
And now that Lemmy’s reached a more critical mass, I’m not sure it could pivot to a better design. Which is a shame. Because it’s still better than reddit, but it’ll never be what many people loved about what reddit (and digg) used to be.
EDIT: It’s not all doom and gloom. I think there’s a space for self-hosted apps or clients to make up for that gap, and we already have search indexers to find communities cross-web. I think when we have better multi-user integration, we’ll have a lot of opportunity. Like if I had a lemmy.world user primary, and it had a authorizing key, I could maybe have a user on dbzer0.com that has the public key for my lemmy.world and still effectively sign that account in a defederated instance. Enough people have been demanding something like that, I’m sure it’ll drop eventually.
How will it even be possible for new instances to get off the ground financially in a few years then?
Federation as it stands right now is a terrible system.
Because they will quickly use up a ton of storage just for showing other instances content, or did i misunderstand you?
That is a good question, but methods like pruning old content from other instances might evolve into a path for solving this (very real problem).
Federation as it stands right now is a terrible system.
I beg to differ. Right now federation is an okay solution. My proof is that it at least works, and that the problem you mention isn’t killing the fediverse (yet).
We should not forget that ActivityPub is a W3C standard, (which itself is a huge milestone for a decentralized internet) and like other similiar standards (eg. HTTP) it can be iterated on and improved when solutions to new or old problems are found.
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I’m not really inclined to immediately write off anyone who makes a decision I don’t like as a shitty person and bad faith actor, but I certainly don’t agree with their decision.
Just about finished setting up my new account here on Lemm.ee, hopefully it’ll do a better job of providing the kind of vanilla experience I’m looking for, where I’m the one deciding what I do or don’t want to see.
The particular person in the post has 9 Lemmy accounts, 4 or 5 of which are banned due to bigotry, including trying to make an anti-trans community on this instance. It’s safe to say they’re a shitty person
Oh, Yeah I agree. I was referring to the mods who decided to ban the piracy communities, not the bigoted guy who loves intellectual property law
Piracy of software is always moral in the face of proprietary software.
They have stolen so much from us that we have all right to revolt.
Intellectual property is denial of media rights to the public.
Theft is justified in the face of capitalism.
Those who live in precarity, poverty, homlessness or hunger are justified to do whatever violence is required to survive.
They look like they are having fun on line:
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He either got bullied to much or not enough while in school. 😂
this person seems to hate piracy just because it’s illegal…
(reminder about homosexuality being illegal in most countries in the middle east)
Ah, reading these comments make me feel like I’m back on Reddit.
I’ve even been seeing the old “could you kindly (deliberately obtuse bad-faith request to “prove” something “objectively” where any evidence given is a “biased” source or “has a narrative”)” sea lioning tactic. They even do the smug “I’ll wait” follow-up line.
One even asked me to objectively prove that they were sea lioning and threw a slang dictionary at me (that for some reason only included a weird and obscure “stalker” definition and not the bad faith evidence demands) in a way that was sea lioning the idea of sea lioning.
Yup. Folks looking for stuff to be salty about. Those admins were protecting their hides and had every right to do so. Hosting carries risks. What could have been handled better was communicating this (a day or three beforehand + not on Discord lmao). The people acting like this is some sort of unforgivable problem are just being dorks. Don’t like it? Pop onto a new instance. It’s easy and is a perfect example as to why Lemmy is great.
Edit: Worth mentioning that the piracy community is among the most active groups on the entire platform. As a viable alternative to reddit, I don’t think piracy being the face of Lemmy is a great look. Newcomers may start on LW and never need or want this community. Those who want it WILL find it.
Huh, wow, someone talking sense on the subject and not getting downvoted to oblivion.
Some instances will be more averse to legal risk than others. Some will also lean more towards “censorship” (showing bigots the door) whilst others will be “free speech encouraged” (full of them). That’s the beauty of the fediverse. Pick your poison. Why go all pitchforks and DDOS attacks etc against an instance that doesn’t share your values when it’s piss easy to just switch to one that does?
(I’m somewhere down the middle on the piracy subject. I believe in supporting small individual developers trying to feed their kids. But Adobe and the like can go fuck themselves)
I’m all for letting servers choose what they want to ban and allow. Its easy enough to just create a new account on a different server if you do not agree with the server admins decisions.
That’s the beauty of federation. The user can also setup his own instance to access the content if he wishes. He might have to learn how to do it, but its totally doable.
The companies don’t need plebs to protect them. If anyone should be willing to lay their body for them it’s their shareholders.
