Yeah this was very predictable. It’s a presidential election, of course the federal court can override state courts. And the 14th amendment argument always hinged on the question of whether or not Trump engaged in insurrection, and that exact question is already being explored in the same court. And he has not yet been found guilty, so as far as the law is concerned, he hasn’t engaged in insurrection.
Everyone’s upset because this hasn’t gone the way it’s supposed to, the DoJ should have charged Trump years ago so things can go in the correct order, Trump gets tried for insurrection, and then cant run for office if found guilty.
If Congress must act to re instate a candidate but almost must act to bar a candidate, why was the amendment written the way it was? Pretty stupid they want Congress to make the determination.
The dissenting opinion puts that into the spotlight. It really is dumb that they’re saying even federal courts/administrative bodies can’t make that determination.
dissent
So I went to read it and found there’s no dissenting opinion, but a concurring one: but oddly, if you CTRL+F “dissent”, their concurrence lights up for me. Tried it on two PDF readers, but maybe I’m losing grip on reality.
Nah, it was a concurrence because they agreed that the case should be reversed. Their concurrence doesn’t agree with what they went beyond reversing it though. I just don’t have good legal language.
Sorry, I didn’t articulate my thoughts well: I meant that when I CTRL+F’ed the PDF searching for “dissent”, the second of three places in the PDF that it “finds” the word dissent is literally behind the word “concurring” in “SOTOMAYOR, KAGAN, and JACKSON, JJ., concurring in judgment” on page 15 of the PDF.
I also don’t have legal training to dissect most of what’s in there, but I find it interesting that dissent is embedded in the PDF behind the title to their opinion.
I’m kinda glad because I don’t think trump will win against Biden, but I think Nikki may have. Plus now the repubs are divided a bit between Nikki or Trump and less will probably show up to vote.
No matter what, the next election will suck and if Biden wins, Harris will probably take over as president after like the first year.
No one read beyond the insurrection clause, sec 5 of the 14th says only Congress can remove him
No. It says -
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Which is a repeating of the Constitution in the case of section 3, which says states administer elections unless there’s a specific law from Congress. Section 5 uses no exclusionary language to say states cannot enforce the amendment.
It says only Congress can reinstate him. It says nothing about Congress removing anyone from candidacy, because the “shall” language is self-executing.
Weird how “shall” means something totally different in the 2nd amendment than anywhere else in the document…those wacky founders!
This is from the main opinion:
The Constitution empowers Congress to prescribe how those determinations should be made. The relevant provi- sion is Section 5, which enables Congress, subject of course to judicial review, to pass “appropriate legislation” to “en- force” the Fourteenth Amendment. See City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 536 (1997). Or as Senator Howard put it at the time the Amendment was framed, Section 5 “casts upon Congress the responsibility of seeing to it, for the future, that all the sections of the amendment are car- ried out in good faith.” Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess., at 2768
So they say Congress needs to pass legislation to enforce this, and that is the only way to take Trump off the ballot.
The concurring opinion from Sotomayor/Kagen/Jackson does not like this at all:
Although only an individual State’s action is at issue here, the majority opines on which federal actors can enforce Section 3, and how they must do so. The majority announces that a disqualification for insurrection can occur only when Congress enacts a particular kind of legislation pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amend- ment. In doing so, the majority shuts the door on other po- tential means of federal enforcement. We cannot join an opinion that decides momentous and difficult issues unnec- essarily, and we therefore concur only in the judgment.
Yep. I read section 5 for myself. It’s a twisted way to read it that Congress is supposed to be the executor of the “shall” language in section 3, specifically through legislation. It just says Congress shall have the power to legislate the 14th Amendment. It does not say Congress shall legislate 14th amendment issues.
But that’s kind of been their MO the whole time. “I don’t wanna rule, so I’ma hide behind Congress and say it’s their job.”
It seems pretty straightforward to argue congress needs to create a mechanism to label someone as having engaged in insurrection. All judges agreed a single state making that determination using their own rules isn’t sufficient.
Yet the Court continues on to resolve questions not before us. In a case involving no federal action whatsoever, the Court opines on how federal enforcement of Section 3 must proceed. Congress, the majority says, must enact legislation under Section 5 prescribing the procedures to “ ‘ “ascertain[ ] what particular individuals” ’ ” should be disqualified. Ante, at 5 (quoting Griffin’s Case, 11 F. Cas. 7, 26 (No. 5,815) (CC Va. 1869) (Chase, Circuit Justice)). These musings are as inadequately supported as they are gratuitous.
To start, nothing in Section 3’s text supports the majority’s view of how federal disqualification efforts must operate. Section 3 states simply that “[n]o person shall” holdcertain positions and offices if they are oathbreaking insurectionists. Amdt. 14. Nothing in that unequivocal bar suggests that implementing legislation enacted under Section 5 is “critical” (or, for that matter, what that word means in this context). Ante, at 5. In fact, the text cuts the opposite way. Section 3 provides that when an oathbreaking insurrectionist is disqualified, “Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.” It is hard to understand why the Constitution would require a congressional supermajority to remove a disqualification if a simple majority could nullify Section 3’s operation by repealing or declining to pass implementing legislation. Even petitioner’s lawyer acknowledged the “tension” in Section 3 that the majority’s view creates. See Tr. of Oral Arg. 31. Similarly, nothing else in the rest of the Fourteenth Amendment supports the majority’s view. Section 5 gives Congress the “power to enforce [the Amendment] by appropriate legislation.” Remedial legislation of any kind, however, is not required. All the Reconstruction Amendments (including the due process and equal protection guaranteesand prohibition of slavery) “are self-executing,” meaning that they do not depend on legislation. City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 524 (1997); see Civil Rights Cases, 109 U. S. 3, 20 (1883). Similarly, other constitutional rules of disqualification, like the two-term limit on the Presidency, do not require implementing legislation. See, e.g., Art. II, §1, cl. 5 (Presidential Qualifications); Amdt. 22 (Presidential Term Limits). Nor does the majority suggest otherwise.
The majority position doesn’t have to make sense, they just needed to be the majority. This is the legal phase of fascism, they won’t be held accountable. In the majority, 3 of them were appointed by Trump, 1 has an insurrection isn’t wife, this outcome was really never in doubt.
They couldn’t get Barret to sign on with the majority on this one, but they still managed to squeeze it through. Guess it left too much of a bad taste in her mouth.
Barrett’s concurring opinion is just “I agree with everything they said, and also I’m so glad we could all agree on this”. The concurring opinion from Sotomayor/Kagen/Jackson has actual substance to it.
Oh I read it. It was more like “I don’t agree with their reasoning, but can’t we all just get along.” As in, she wouldn’t even touch what she didn’t agree with even though it’s obvious. She writes incredibly shitty opinions.
She isn’t there on her merits.
Oh look another illegal power grab by the supreme dipshits. 14th amendment section 3 states only Congress may remove an insurrectionist’s inability to hold office, not SCOTUS.
Unfortunately not a new power grab, they’ve long held that their judicial review is sacrosanct, and they get to pick and choose not just the cases they hear, but also what issues within that case they feel like
legislatingreviewing. Same again here, the RNC asked three questions and they left most of it wellll alone:The Questions Presented are:
- Whether the President falls within the list of officials subject to the disqualification provision of Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment?
- Whether Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment is self-executing to the extent of allowing states to remove candidates from the ballot in the absence of any Congressional action authorizing such process?
- Whether the denial to a political party of its ability to choose the candidate of its choice in a presidential primary and general election violates that party’s First Amendment Right of Association?
#1 & 3 were completely ignored because they’re only willing to craft big
legislationopinions on conservative/originalist topics, but “show respect for the lower courts” when it’s convenient for SCotUSThey focused in on the state w/o congress aspect of #3, because it’s the weakest part of the Colorado case unfortunately, and allowed this fig-leaf opt out on disqualification being kicked back to Congress
That’s not how the opinion works. The Supremes said states can’t remove candidates from the federal ballot under the insurrection clause. They can remove state candidates. It doesn’t rule on anything else.
The rest of their reasoning was basically “Congress can’t do this shit, it’d be a mess, so we’ll step up and reverse that clause.”
They specifically said they will enforce the constitution as they see fit.
So how do they remove someone who isn’t of age or a natural born citizen?
That’s a very good question, because I don’t think it’s ever been a real issue. Not among “serious” candidates (read: not some rando third party with zero chance).
Those factors are more mechanical. Being of age isn’t a judgement issue unless someone says there’s a mistake on their birth certificate or something. Natural born citizen is usually mechanical. Most candidates have been clearly born in the United States, and there’s no debate about it. There was a little question around McCain, who was born in Panama, but there was clearly an act of Congress that made kids born there to American service members into citizens. If we take all the claims of the Obama Birthers at face value (which are nonsense), then he’d still be a citizen due to his mother being a citizen.
However, I do think the Birthers uncovered a problem while they fumbled around like idiots. They tried to get Obama off the ballot using the courts, and repeatedly had them dismissed due to lack of standing. If there actually was a valid reason to challenge someone under those requirements, it’s not obvious who can enforce it.
I was under the impression that being a citizen wasn’t enough, you had to be a natural born citizen. I don’t think Obamas citizenship was ever in question, just his birthplace
There’s documented evidence of Obama being born in Hawaii, and no real evidence that he was born in Kenya or anywhere else. That resolves the issue right there.
That said, even if he was born in Kenya, his mother is a US citizen, and he therefore had citizenship automatically at birth under US law. There’s some SovCit-level bullshit about making a distinction between “natural born citizen” and “citizen at birth”, but it’s not taken seriously.
amazing how quickly those states rights arguments evaporate when its not to the republicans benefits, huh
this thing was doomed from the start and the unanimous vote of the Supreme Court shows that. Y’all are overlooking the fact that this keeps red states from taking Biden off the ballot too.
It seems like someone should be eligible for all states or no states when it comes to this question. But a federal court, not only congress, should have authority to convict on these charges and thereby rule the candidate ineligible.
Biden didn’t commit insurrection.
a lot of trump supporters think he did. “no u” is a classic american strategy
These.Mother.Fuckers…
Nice new yacht for a certain member of the court?
He prefers motorcoaches.
Maybe Mr Oliver should offer a bigger one.
I can’t see him being able to match what the billionaires can give him.
Plus why needs a coach when they get all that power
I’m not sure what drives him, but money seems to be a part at least.
He’s a Black man who hates affirmative action, said that he wanted to make liberals pay, and also is only on SCOTUS because Republicans wanted the optics of replacing Thurgood Marshall with another Black man.
In other words, he’s a hateful, spiteful, bigoted asshole who is married to a hateful, spiteful, bigoted asshole insurrectionist.
*and he’s for sale
It was a unanimous decision by the court. States simply do not have this power. Why would someone need a yacht purchased?
This should be a surprise to nobody; the courts have been largely bending over backwards to accommodate Trump.
The supreme court just ruled that either the 14th amendment somehow doesn’t apply to presidents, trump didn’t engage in insurrection, and/or Trump is just simply above the law.
Then you have Cannon, who has gone out of her way to rule in Trump’s favor, up to and including the implication that Trump actually is above the law, and has shown she is hellbent on continuing to do so.
The supreme Court is also throwing Trump another bone by delaying his dc trial by 2 months, essentially giving Trump the win by running out the clock instead of ruling on presidential immunity.
The stormy Daniels case is of little legal and even less political consequence, as the case is weak already and Trump is not considered at significant risk.
The GA case is likely to get derailed because Willis couldn’t keep her personal and professional life separate, and her handling of the affair puts her credibility in doubt.
At least we have the civil judgement. At least, until Trump finds another judge willing to throw that out too.
The supreme court just ruled that either the 14th amendment somehow doesn’t apply to presidents, trump didn’t engage in insurrection, and/or Trump is just simply above the law.
That’s quite literally not what they argued, even if you try to read it that way. You really should read the opinion before you tell people what it says.
I don’t like trump but if you read the wording it says Congress must act to remove him so that’s why he is allowed on the states are trying to remove him when only Congress has the authority so a act of Congress could remove him but unlikely to happen sadly.
It does not clearly say only Congress has the power to disqualify. It does clearly state that Congress can remove a disqualification of this type with a 2/3 vote.
The court here has ruled that because of that Congress must act in order to disqualify someone in the first place. Which makes sense to me, I suppose. It’s certainly better than the alternative argument that the presidency is not an officer of the United States. The court seems mostly concerned with the balance of power between the states and federal government in the ruling.
But most importantly, it’s making it clear that this is not self-executing or self-evident in the same way the constitutional qualifications for the office are (eg age).
It’s also worth noting that the Court here is saying states cannot impede the ability of the federal government to exist and function (pages 8-10). Consider that if a state were empowered to disqualify federal officers, then it could interfere with the ability of Congress to do its job on a fundamental level either by a) forcing Congress to remove the disqualification before state-run primaries and elections even began, or b) controlling the outcome of a federal election by tilting the Electoral College in their favor. McCulloch v. Maryland made clear that “States have no power…to retard, impede, burden, or in any manner control, the operations of the constitutional laws enacted by Congress”.
Imagine what Greg Abbott would do if we gave Texas the ability to dictate the outcome of federal elections. It would be absolute chaos.
“I would expect that a goodly number of states will say whoever the Democratic candidate is, you’re off the ballot, and others, for the Republican candidate, you’re off the ballot. It will come down to just a handful of states that are going to decide the presidential election. That’s a pretty daunting consequence,” the chief justice, John Roberts, said during oral argument. (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/04/trump-scotus-colorado-ruling)
Damn inconsistent of them, being concerned about consequences after the current court’s previous rulings.
It comes down to just a handful of states anyway
“If we do the right thing now, Republicans will act in bad faith to do the wrong thing later” is such a bullshit cop-out but it happens all the fucking time.
Democracy is already broken, the popular vote winner doesn’t get to be president if they are Democrat, unless the margin is very large.
I told everyone for months that sec 5 clearly says ONLY Congress can remove him. I wish I had bookmarked everyone that old me I was a bot or Russian that doesn’t know what they are talking about.
I guess that must’ve been on your other account then?
On Reddit
Please point out the word “only” in Section 5 to me. I must be blind: “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
“The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
It’s right there The Congress shall have the power to enforce
Please provide references demonstrating that the founding fathers defined “shall” to include an implicit inclusion of “only”, “exclusively”, or any similar verbiage.
I’ll wait.
shall does not mean only. it means that they do have the power, but not that they and they alone have the power
All signs point to President Trump at the end of 2024. It was nice knowing ya.
surprising absolutely no-one
Just the latest reminder that the 3rd Clause of the 14th Amendment isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
Edit: Important from the Court’s three liberal justices:
“The American people have the power to vote for and elect candidates for national office, and that is a great and glorious thing. The men who drafted and ratified the Fourteenth Amendment, however, had witnessed an ‘insurrection [and] rebellion’ to defend slavery. They wanted to ensure that those who had participated in that insurrection, and in possible future insurrections, could not return to prominent roles. Today, the majority goes beyond the necessities of this case to limit how Section 3 can bar an oathbreaking insurrectionist from becoming President. Although we agree that Colorado cannot enforce Section 3, we protest the majority’s effort to use this case to define the limits of federal enforcement of that provision. Because we would decide only the issue before us, we concur only in the judgment.”
Where them “states’ rights” advocates at?
Not advantagous right now. It’ll rear it’s ugly head again once it becomes politically advantagous to do so.
On the brightside many cynics are enjoying being proven correct once more.
No we’re very sick of being right someone please stop us.
