Wtf was that dumbest posting about? He never learned about CFCs in 8th grade high school? Embarrassing
Matt Walsh is literally the dumbest person on the planet. Most of the people involved with The Daily Wire are cynical little freaks playing a part, Walsh is just a moron.
Turns out, that the hole in the ozone layer didn’t get repaired. In fact, it’s larger than it’s ever been and above the Antarctic. Antarctica is currently experiencing a mass die-off of animals. We didn’t do shit.
We definitely did something. It just would have been a lot worse if we didn’t. In fact so bad that BBC says the planet would have been “uninhabitable.”
According to some models, the Montreal Protocol and its amendments have helped prevent up to two million cases of skin cancer yearly and avoided millions of cataract cases worldwide.
Had the world not banned CFCs, we would now find ourselves nearing massive ozone depletion. “By 2050, it’s pretty well-established we would have had ozone hole-like conditions over the whole planet, and the planet would have become uninhabitable,” says Solomon.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220321-what-happened-to-the-worlds-ozone-hole
Citation: Rectally Sourced Science.
Models suggest that the concentration of chlorine and other ozone-depleting substances in the stratosphere will not return to pre-1980 levels until the middle decades of the 21st century. Scientists have already seen the first definitive proof of ozone recovery, observing a 20 percent decrease in ozone depletion during the winter months from 2005 to 2016. In 2019, abnormal weather patterns in the upper atmosphere over Antarctica dramatically limited ozone depletion, leading to the smallest hole since 1982. Models predict that the Antarctic ozone layer will mostly recover by 2040.
Is this true? An article from 2022 indicates things are getting better, just slowly
Today, the ozone hole still exists, forming every year over Antarctica in the spring. It closes up again over the summer as stratospheric air from lower latitudes is mixed in, patching it up until the following spring when the cycle begins again. But there’s evidence it’s starting to disappear – and recover more or less as expected, says Solomon. Based on scientific assessments, the ozone layer is expected to return to pre-1980 levels around the middle of the century. Healing is slow because of the long lifespan of ozone-depleting molecules. Some persist in the atmosphere for 50 to 150 years before decaying.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220321-what-happened-to-the-worlds-ozone-hole
It’s not. I’m guessing they did a Google search, looked at a few misleading article titles, and then decided they were a scientist.
On average, the hole has been shrinking, but 2023’s hole was the 12th biggest on record. The eruption of Hunga-Tonga was thought to be the main factor.
TBH “The whole world agreed on something” narrative doesn’t really reflect what happened.
Actually, The Industry dropped using CFC after a cheaper and luckily safer alternative has been discovered right around that time.
The fact is, most companies are fine to let an existing system run rather than replace it with one that has a cheaper consumable thing, provided they can still get that consumable and the cost of replacing that system is high.
Basically, corps would have kept buying and using CFCs because replacing the refrigeration system is too costly.
Not only was an alternative found that was cheaper and safer and almost as good (as effective), but scientists and engineers put in the effort to find ways to adapt existing systems to the new working fluid. All for significantly less than replacing the system.
Not only was a replacement found, but it was made economically viable for widespread deployment in a very short timeframe; not just having a short development time, but also a very short duration to deploy the new solution to an existing system.
You’re right, that it was cheaper and everything, but most of the time changing the working fluid of a refrigerator/air conditioning unit, will require that the system is replaced. They worked around that. Additionally, you’re correct that it was industry that made the change and pushed it to their clients.
I just want to make sure we recognise the efforts put in by the scientists and engineers that enabled the rapid switch to non-CFC based cooling systems. It’s still an amazing achievement IMO, and something that required a remarkable amount of cooperation by people who probably don’t cooperate often or at all (and are, in all likelihood, fairly hostile to eachother, most of the time).
IMO, that’s still one of the best examples of global cooperation that anyone could possibly point to. Rarely do we have a problem where there’s almost universal consensus on the issue and how to fix it. In this case, there was. That level of cooperation among the people of earth is borderline unparalleled; the only other times we cooperated this well that people would know about are usually negotiations done with the barrel of a gun. Namely the world wars. One group said that we’re going to do a thing, another group said nope. It was settled with lives, bullets and bombs, and nearly every person alive was on one side or the other… Except Sweden, I suppose… And maybe smaller countries that didn’t have enough of an army to participate. (I’m sure there’s dozens of reasons, but I’m not a historian)
Without guns, bombs, or even threats, just a presentation of the facts and a proposal for a solution, everyone just … went along with it.
To me, that’s unprecedented.
There was a necessary round of nearly all governments on Earth agreeing to fine and extinguish business or even throwing executives on jail if they insisted on using the more expensive alternative.
Only after that people stopped using CFCs.
Honestly, some times I wonder if we live in an episode of Captain Planet. Some people look like plain childish cartoon villains.
Imagine if we did this with climate change. Imagine if we tried to switch to renewable energy en masse 20 years ago.
like as if we wanted to live
Problem with that is that in comparison the alternative to CFC was not that more expensive and then a cheaper one was invented shortly after.
For climate change you basically can double our energy costs and therefore double the cost of almost everything.
The cost of everything would double?
… Oh no…
Not to seem callous, but the first world could learn to live off of a little less.
Whoa there buddy. That would put my butler’s butler out of a job. Also where does a person park their yacht if not inside another, larger yacht?
It wouldn’t even be less. We’d just have to reign in the capitalist feeding frenzy a bit.
2000 brands of shoes? Advertising? 99% of our production is wasted.
Honestly this is what I keep saying and everyone gets pissed when I do.
There’s enough resources on this planet that every living human could live a decently luxurious life. But because we allow a small handful of us to hoard all those resources we have poverty on a global scale.
But that isn’t true anymore, right? Renewables are now way cheaper per produced Watt. And still, we’re stuck with people pretending that’s not true.
Currently they are cheaper despite the financial support for fossils but back then it was not and not enough was spent on research
It’s not so simple. They’re cheaper than building non renewable, but are they cheaper than keeping the current plants running? Also, energy consumption keeps growing, and in many places, new generating plants using renewables usually only take care of the growth, and doesn’t allow for room to take older plants out of operations. If we don’t make huge efforts to reduce our energy consumption, I doubt we’re going to get rid of non renewables so soon…
Just to be clear, are we sure that the ozone holes are still shrinking?
Looks like it had been expected to heal by 2040, but might also be affected by by climate change - reminder that even when we fix climate change, CO2 stays in the atmosphere over a century. We can only stop making things worse, but it’s your great grand children who stand to really benefit
I was thinking of this paper from 2018:
ACP - Evidence for a continuous decline in lower stratospheric ozone offsetting ozone layer recovery
Abstract. Ozone forms in the Earth’s atmosphere from the photodissociation of molecular oxygen, primarily in the tropical stratosphere. It is then transported to the extratropics by the Brewer–Dobson circulation (BDC), forming a protective ozone layer around the globe. Human emissions of halogen-containing ozone-depleting substances (hODSs) led to a decline in stratospheric ozone until they were banned by the Montreal Protocol, and since 1998 ozone in the upper stratosphere is rising again, likely the recovery from halogen-induced losses. Total column measurements of ozone between the Earth’s surface and the top of the atmosphere indicate that the ozone layer has stopped declining across the globe, but no clear increase has been observed at latitudes between 60° S and 60° N outside the polar regions (60–90°). Here we report evidence from multiple satellite measurements that ozone in the lower stratosphere between 60° S and 60° N has indeed continued to decline since 1998. We find that, even though upper stratospheric ozone is recovering, the continuing downward trend in the lower stratosphere prevails, resulting in a downward trend in stratospheric column ozone between 60° S and 60° N. We find that total column ozone between 60° S and 60° N appears not to have decreased only because of increases in tropospheric column ozone that compensate for the stratospheric decreases. The reasons for the continued reduction of lower stratospheric ozone are not clear; models do not reproduce these trends, and thus the causes now urgently need to be established.
and this paper from 2023:
Potential drivers of the recent large Antarctic ozone holes | Nature Communications
The past three years (2020–2022) have witnessed the re-emergence of large, long-lived ozone holes over Antarctica. Understanding ozone variability remains of high importance due to the major role Antarctic stratospheric ozone plays in climate variability across the Southern Hemisphere. Climate change has already incited new sources of ozone depletion, and the atmospheric abundance of several chlorofluorocarbons has recently been on the rise. In this work, we take a comprehensive look at the monthly and daily ozone changes at different altitudes and latitudes within the Antarctic ozone hole. Following indications of early-spring recovery, the October middle stratosphere is dominated by continued, significant ozone reduction since 2004, amounting to 26% loss in the core of the ozone hole. We link the declines in mid-spring Antarctic ozone to dynamical changes in mesospheric descent within the polar vortex, highlighting the importance of continued monitoring of the state of the ozone layer.
Unfortunately there can still be emissions:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1193-4
From abstract:
A recently reported slowdown in the decline of the atmospheric concentration of CFC-11 after 2012, however, suggests that global emissions have increased3,4. A concurrent increase in CFC-11 emissions from eastern Asia contributes to the global emission increase, but the location and magnitude of this regional source are unknown3. Here, using high-frequency atmospheric observations from Gosan, South Korea, and Hateruma, Japan, together with global monitoring data and atmospheric chemical transport model simulations, we investigate regional CFC-11 emissions from eastern Asia. We show that emissions from eastern mainland China are 7.0 ± 3.0 (±1 standard deviation) gigagrams per year higher in 2014–2017 than in 2008–2012, and that the increase in emissions arises primarily around the northeastern provinces of Shandong and Hebei.
The ozone hole size is influenced by the strength of the polar vortex, the Antarctic temperature, and other things in addition to the concentration of CFC molecules. It’s barely shrunk, but CFCs are so long-lived that was expected - the critical point is it stopped growing over 20 years ago. I believe they expect to start seeing shrinking within the next decade.
As far as im aware the hole in the ozone layer is basically gone
Actually there are signs it’s been growing again. Because we forget history so quick.
Sorry I left my ozone vacuum running overnight.
I never realised how much MegaMaid reminds me of Unreal Tournament.
I see articles up to 2022 talking about it shrinking, healing on the predicted timeframe. 2023 is a huge outlier, possibly caused by a volcano, but there’s variability every year. That doesn’t mean it’s growing again
Like he even read the response
The problem is not if he reads the response, it’s that the followers won’t or if they do, will just fight it.
Remember when cavemen unga bunga’d about dinosaurs? Whatever happened to those dinosaurs! It’s like the Flintstones wasn’t actually the ground breaking documentary it was or something!
Of course it’s Matt Walsh
Remember when everyone was so scared of polio and then all of the sudden we stopped talking about it?🤔
I remember when no one talked about measles, and now suddenly everyone is. 🤔
There are no stupid takes, just stupid people.
And didn’t they find a bunch of Chinese factories pumping them out again not long ago?
Tell me you are dumb without telling me you are dumb
Right? Stupid science bitch making up things like “chlorofluorocarbons” and “global cooperation.”
the science bitch that invented CFCs also invented Tetra Ethyl Lead fuel additive, “leaded gasoline” was also cleaned up,… mainly.
He’s also on the short list of people killed by their own invention.
yeah, some ropey contraption, iirc
But you people will believe anything that science guy says. All he has to do is say stuff like “chloroflurocarboins” and you get a hardon.
I’m so hard for science right now.
…there’s a reason why we trust expertise. Don’t be “Guy on Internet.”
although there can be hard paradigms that are wrong and were still taught, isn’t creation-smuggling into textbooks still a thing? In < 100 yrs people will laugh at those of us that believe other than biological natural selection evolution over billions of years
But you don’t know. You just trust the talking head. You’re going on pure theater.
You people have all the epistemological rigor of 12th century villagers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgk8UdV7GQ0
It’s fun that there’s always a “meme” to reply to your nonsense with that fits because your argument in this situation is ridiculous and others have already created media to chastise it as such.
OF COURSE YOU DONT JUST BLINDLY BELIEVE EVERYTHING FRIENDO.
Expertise is a thing though, and in this case the topic has been thoroughly discussed and studied. Not sure why you picked this conversation to jump in with your “ah HA! You took it as faith, the same faith people put in the Bible! They didn’t see the facts first hand and neither did you! So I have a Big Brain™ and you’re just a sheep!”
Expertise is a thing? Really? Well now I have seen the light.
Thank you for stooping to aid this pitiful worm, in his confusion. You truly are a kind and generous soul.
But really. You people act like 12th century Christian zealots about this stuff.
I can offer some actual help.
You’re trying to make a point, but you’re going about it in literally the worst way. Right now all of your responses to pretty much everyone here are aggressive and insulting. That’s 100% self serving. It makes you feel good but fails at what you’re attempting to do. The first thing that happens when people are confronted with being insulted or being talked down to is to “close” their minds to what you’re trying to say and to get defensive.
If after reading this your reaction is “that’s a you problem,” then you don’t actually care about whatever point you were trying to make and you’re just trying to make yourself feel smarter than everyone else.
My responses could have had more tact as well.
What is it that you are disputimg? The fact that CFC leads to Ozone depletion? Or the fact that it is possible for the person in the tweet to know that?
I’m disputing the confidence with which you people assert your secondhand truths and persecute unbelievers. You are behaving like cattle, herded by a glowing screen.
The vast majority of scientists who are experts in the field, all across the globe, all looking at the data, providing their evidence to each other to either challenge or support, all agreeing on what’s happening.
It’s not being a sheep to look at this and realize that what that group is saying is probably right and that you, as a layman, should probably accept what they are saying. That’s actually the opposite of being a sheep, it’s being objective and reasonable.
Right… so your issue isn’t with the facts as they are stated. You too are not disputing those facts, am i right?
Please whisper chlorofluorocarbons into my ear
I dunno man. Does believing the popular narrative really make you smart? Does disbelieving it really make you dumb? I don’t think so.
He doesn’t disbelieve, he just doesn’t know
Knowing isn’t required for either believing or disbelieving.
But knowing is required for not being dumb.
Something seems to have triggered you. Are you okay?
Don’t be defensive, address my point instead.
You don’t have a point, other than you should just trust your gut or something?
I think that you are too dumb for this conversation.
You’re not really making any meaningful points for me to interact with, and as such I have nothing in myself to defend. You seem to just be really cranky and hostile.
That’s where your downvotes are coming from, by the way. You’re not appealing to reason; you’re more just being kind of a dick.
Well the fellow that I replied to implied that understanding is necessary for belief/disbelief. And then I said that it ain’t so.
So you might try addressing that very definite and relevant point.
Respectfully, the word should be stupid. Not dumb.They surely did not have a lack of words. They’re stupid lol
You mean, listening to the science and actively working in tandem with that science works? Who knew?
Okay why the fuck has this been top of my front page for two days
Because Lemmy is still 1/100th the size of Reddit.
Lack of new content on lemmy. Go post.
Lemmy auto sorts by “active” so my responding to you will now keep it at the top of your page for day 3 lol
Reasons.
Misleading post, it seems to imply that it helped significantly.
