• Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        2 months ago

        We definitely can, it just would take a lot of effort and sacrefices the majority aren’t willing to take.

        We could shut down every coal power plant tomorrow, better to have some brown outs than to not have a planet at all.

        • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          The result of shutting down every coal plant would not be “some brown outs”. It would be millions of people dying from cold and starvation.

        • stebo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 months ago

          And bring the unemployment rate to a new high? I agree coal plants need to shut down and be replaced but it can’t all be done in one snap.

          • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            It definitely can. It should not be, but it can be. Government is getting bolder with drastic dictatorial action, and just because we rely on something for safety and stability doesn’t mean it can’t be taken away in an instant.

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          2 months ago

          I suspect it’s actually the minority who would be unwilling to sacrifice. Most people sacrifice every day, seemingly more and more every financial quarter, but not for any greater good. Just so that wealthy minority can pad the bottom line they think will make them safe in an increasingly precarious world.

          • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            I’ve been forced to sacrifice. I rent a car to drive for Uber, and as a result of being forced to use an electric vehicle for this, I lose about 20% per day.

            I’m doing my part! (against my will)

      • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        We can reach the yellow line, it would just require telling the fossil fuel industry to get fucked, and rapidly investing in green energy, reducing waste, and probably stepping on the toes of the Millitary Industrial Complex.

  • Taffer@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    In the last couple weeks, I’ve noticed a sudden and dramatic shift in tone with how Biden is talked about on Lemmy as well as other corners of the internet I lurk on(e.g. this comment section). Before, it seemed like the general opinion was “he’s nowhere close to my 1st choice, but the alternative is Trump.” And now I feel like people are a lot quicker to jump to his defense and treat him like one of the better presidents of our lifetime.

    I’m gonna admit that I’m a lot less up to date and informed about politics than I should be, but where did this recent pivot on Biden come from?

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      2 months ago

      You’ll notice they come from the big 4 most propagandized instances. Almost certainly a mix of willing idiots and active manipulation

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        To clarify, you’re saying it’s folks from the popular instances trying to rebrand the conversation as “Biden is cool as fuck actually” as well as folks willing to just roll with that? Or am I misinterpreting?

        (I gotta stop making comments on lemmy when I’m stoned and only have 2 brain cells)

        • Daxtron2@startrek.website
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          2 months ago

          TBH I misread as well, I was talking about the comparisons between Biden and Hitler. I’ve been seeing a lot more of “people” saying they’re not going to vote at all and encouraging others to do so, which will just result in a trump presidency.

          • Taffer@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Gotcha, so maybe the sudden positive feeling about Biden is more of a reaction to that mindset to try and sway folks back to voting? That’d certainly make sense to me.

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              2 months ago

              Certainly could be. Biden should absolutely be criticized for his shortcomings, as any president should. But there’s no better option right now so it’s really about damage control more than anything

    • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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      bots and paid shills, I expect. thats the impression I got trying g to talk to them. or just straight up cultists.

      probably a reaction to him so enthusiastically backing a fucking genocide.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      I haven’t seen things saying he’s good. I have seen it said, and said, that he’s better than expected. It’s just that the bar is too low. He might possibly be one of the better president, though not inspiring, just because there aren’t many good ones. FDR is good from what I know of him, though I’m sure there’s still plenty to complain about. Other than that, we haven’t really had any leftist president’s in the US. The fact that Biden has mostly been friendly towards unions is a nice change from standard US practice.

      Basically, he’s not great. He’s what we’ve got. He’s also better than it would seem like he would be if you paid attention to his political past.

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        2 months ago

        Even with FDR, we had the whole concentration camps things. The bad with the good.

      • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        He’s also better than it would seem like he would be if you paid attention to his political past.

        This is what makes me think he’s just the voice for someone else. His history is far too shit for even the mild amount of good that has happened in this admin.

      • Soulg@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        He’s not been perfect by any means, and is seriously bungling the Gaza situation to put it mildly, but he’s absolutely been the best and most successful president in my lifetime so far, especially when it comes to making progressive steps.

        Note that that doesn’t mean he’s great, but yeah, the bar is just absurdly low

        • xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 months ago

          As a non-American, I think Obama was a bit better, but the difference is definitely pretty marginal

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            2 months ago

            I would have liked to see Obama without being chained by the amount of Republicans voting against him that he had, but I wonder if it would have made any difference.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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            2 months ago

            Obama was more charismatic and better at messaging, but I think actually worse on policy.

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            As a non-American who was in Finance before, during and after the 2008 Crash, lets just say that by the things he chose to do after the Crash, the way he chose to do them and even more importantly the people he chose to manage those things, even though he sings like a songbird, the quality of his actions definitelly didn’t match the beauty of his songs.

            Incredible orator.

            Also dishonest as fuck.

      • Xanis@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I tend to point out to people that those complaining about Biden tend to be unable to accurately back up the vast majority of their complaints. They also go oddly silent when someone comes back with a reasoned argument.

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            2 months ago

            I’d say it is reasonable to say Biden has been the most progressive president since Johnson signed the civil rights bill. It surprised the hell out of me.

            • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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              again, that’s not pro biden. that’s a brutal indictment of everyone else, and a suggestion that our votes don’t matter.

              • Xanis@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Our votes literally brought Biden into the Presidency. ANY progress that has been made is specifically because our votes mattered. They have always mattered. The brutal truth is a combination of apathy, disenfranchisement, deconstructing the public school system, and a sprinkle of brainwashing has caused too many people to not vote. Apathy at the top for a reason.

                Moreover, Biden has rolled over when our voices become loud enough on a handful of issues. He has also completed several of the promises he made and is in progress on several more.

                Literally, all because we came together and voted him into the position. Is he perfect? Nope. He could be better. Yet I am inclined to give him at least a partial pass due to the division of the entire nation caused in large part due to Trump’s Republican Party. Say what you will, Biden has NOT had it easy.

                • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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                  have you ever talked to a trump cultist?

                  has he rolled over? has he managed half his campaign promises? the ones people wanted? even just the ones that could be executive orders?

                  (no he fucking hasn’t)

                  I don’t give a shit how hard he’s got it. if he’s that tired, he should’ve stepped the fuckdownamd let someone competent, who could easily beat trump, have a shot.

                  the only reason anyone votes for biden is Donald trump. if either party ran someone competent, or ecen just someone who wasnt an octogenarian fascist (crypto or balls slapping against a swastika as he screams ‘work will make you freeeeee!’) they would wipe the god damn floor with either of these fucking clowns. they won’t though. and that’s why I’m not voting.

                  also, I’m in California. my vote literally did not matter, and, due to statistical fuckery, literally isn’t counted except in the ‘popular vote’ which does not matter.

                  and you still haven’t said anything good about him or his policies. you people are exactly like trump cultists; its really sad.

      • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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        2 months ago

        I haven’t seen things saying he’s good. I have seen it said, and said, that he’s better than expected. It’s just that the bar is too low.

        He only needs to be marginally better than the alternative, so that’s all the DNC will ever give us. Because giving us much better than the GOP might disrupt the donor money train.

      • Taffer@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        All fair points, it was just jarring to see the consensus shift from “both options suck shit” to “Biden will do I guess”

            • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              which is honestly one of the three options

              and the same one biden seems to be encouraging, he’s just not dumb enough to say it.

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                2 months ago

                Given that neither Trump nor Biden are Prime Minister of Israel, I think it’s the most realistic option. Given that the rest of the world wants to jump in with embargoes and resolutions and even actions, it may also be more realistic to maintain any influence.

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                  2 months ago

                  no the good options both involve bombing the kapo trash, then bombing the kapo trash, then bombing the kapo trash some more. you do not have influence over ‘Israel’, its a mad dog that needs to be put the fuck down.

    • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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      Election date is getting closer, methinks. People are slowly transitioning from voicing their complaints to reminding everyone of their two options, or even to appreciating all that Biden has accomplished.

    • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      People coming to terms with being held hostage by First Past The Post voting.

      Stockholm syndrome with your captors.

      The record just needed to be corrected.

    • crispyflagstones@sh.itjust.works
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      Typically how this goes is that a centrist liberal Democrat will get the nomination, and then push the left and progressives to support them because this centrist liberal can be transacted with. Once in office, they’ll stomp all over the left and progressives, do literally less than the bare minimum needed to support the idea that they are in fact trying to get support from progressives and leftists, and then demand more votes four years later so progressives and the left can all get taken for another ride by some rich asshole who has more in common with Elon Musk than they do with most Americans.

      Clinton more or less promised this type of governance to the left, and only tried, all too tardily, to come around after it became clear that people might actually not show up for someone who openly hates them and literally does not share their politics, and that raw identity politics alone was not going to be enough to get her into government.

      Biden, surprisingly, has out of nowhere done a variety of progressive things. He allowed himself to be pushed on student loans. Like actually though. He banned non-competes, which won’t fix capitalism, but if you’re a capitalist liberal who believes in transacting with the left and in properly managing markets through policy, then that was a 100% necessary move. And he did it, without even that much fanfare.

      While he’ll never be pro-labor in the way I would want to see in order to be a supporter, the fact that he is actually willing to engage in transactional politics with progressives/the left really does count for something to me. He’s still a strikebreaker and I won’t give him credit for being a pro-labor candidate, but being willing to cut deals on things here and there does mean he has something to offer.

    • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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      Nobody does opinion farming better than Israel. Not even the Russian and Chinese governments can operate at their level.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I’ve always been on the side of “better than he gets credit for” and “as good as anyone can do in an impossible situation of dysfunctional politics”. I do believe he wants to be at least a bit closer to that yellow line

      That’s not the same as thinking he’s one of the better in my lifetime, and most of my reaction is give credit where it’s sure, but also face reality. For all we criticize republicans about hiding from reality (such as global warming), why are we hiding from realities like dysfunctional politics and the limits of what one person can do?

    • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I’m a member of a political party (not in the US, thank the Gods) and was also in one in a different country I lived in and to me it looks a lot like the Democrat Party has started activelly campaigning, so party members are out and about in, amongst other places, social media, spreading the word about their tribe, maybe with some professional help.

      This also explains the increase in articles posted in forums here like World and News consistently pushing a “vote Biden or get apocalypse” message, as well as the swarming nature of downvotes for even the most well thought comment that pick holes in that political propaganda strategy (such comments are swamped by downvotes, but the ones at the top or near of threads will over time slowly get more upvotes until they’re more than the downvotes).

      It looks a lot like the kind of shit I saw in social media and newspaper forums Britain during the Leave Referendum and that stuff latter was discovered to have had massive manipulation from US-based interests via Cambridge Analytica and from Russia.

      • Taffer@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        This really got to the heart of what I was trying to ask. Fantastic explanation, thank you!

  • Argonne@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Becausez unlike a manipulative populist, she knows that there is no reality where we meet the yellow line. It’s sad, but true. Complaining about it just makes you sound like an idiot

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      There’s no political reality. You need to get money out of politics first, and that’s in itself is almost impossible. But with an ideal government and president (which sadly couldn’t exist in current political situation) it can be achieved.

  • Emmie@lemm.ee
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    You vote for the blue one and organise a general strike in aim to paralyse the country until situation improves

    The list of demands is long indeed

      • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.

        Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?

        If you wanna really shut up those people bitching from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it all figured out.

        Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.

        Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.

        Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer?

        More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is represented by their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.

        Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states? Electoral reform needs to be the number one priority for every democrat. No more waiting.

        Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.

        • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          This is calling out the actively BS fence sitting.

          There is a clear difference between one side who is actively banning books, going against women’s rights, and demonizing non-christians.

        • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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          2 months ago

          bro i see you paste this same comment in every vaguely partisan thread. this is me calling you out for it. stop spamming this and write original comments. annoying as fuck.

            • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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              2 months ago

              yuck. no. it accuses their opponent right out the gate with “blue conservative”; something that is both intentionally heavily acerbic and an untenable attack without deep and rigorous investigation.

              my problem isn’t the comment or its content. it’s the spam and the utter unwillingness to engage with peers as humans with diversity of opinion.

  • Wilzax@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    You vote for the yellow by not letting red think they have a chance of winning, making room for a candidate better than blue in the future elections. Democracy is an ongoing effort, not a magic thing that happens on election day.

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    Possibly vote in multiple countries since you are so dense.

    Or… recognize we are one part of a larger group, dare I say, a “planetary” whole.

    Maybe the bigger issue is the idiot obsessing over a yellow line and not someone showing multiple options.

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    2 months ago

    Good lord why is this so hard.

    Y’all want closer or further from target? Make your choice.

    • Squirrel@thelemmy.club
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      With our current voting system, this is all we can do. Vote Democrat and hope for gradual change. Sadly, our planet is more than “gradually” fucked.

      Until the voting system changes (hah), we can push the Democrats to do better, and they’ll surely listen… I’m voting Biden, but I’m sure as hell bitter about the situation.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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          Awww shucks, most of the progressives got rat fucked by the party!

          Guess we get more “centrism” in a desperate appeal to people who actually don’t mind fascism that much, now that they think about it

          • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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            2 months ago

            That’s just the nature of democracy mate.

            With two parties they will always align themselves just to the left and right of whatever “center” happens to be.

            • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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              2 months ago

              you’re not talking about democracy, you’re talking about the specific system used in the US

              most countries in europe do not have a 2-party system, here in sweden we have one party (the social democrats) with 33% of votes and then like 7 other parties with decreasing numbers of votes, that have to come together with a majority of the votes to form a government.

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                2 months ago

                Yes, but all 8 parties will strategically position themselves around the overton window to gather as many votes as possible.

                If you have 2 parties as in the US then obviously it’s one party either side.

                I’m Australian BTW. 3 major parties, many small ones.

        • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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          I’m aware, and I’ve spoken up to defend Biden on this. In general I’ve been positively surprised by Biden’s voting record. I think a lot of people may not have went into the Biden presidency with the expectations I did. I expected fucking nothing. I voted for “not a fascist” in 2020. I was pissed he won the primaries, especially after how clear it was that he was the “fine whatever” candidate with a cop running mate.

          But also as a country we’re headed in the right direction on climate but we need to increase our acceleration. Biden keeps doing that and I’m glad, and I know the house is a deadlocked mess and the legislature is as important as the president this year. But, we need to decarbonize and we need to do it 20 years ago, or now at the latest. None of this natural gas bullshit. It’s gonna suck. Of fucking course it’s going to suck. We put it off for 50 years.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      My target is the dissolving of national borders, the elimination of nation-states, the breakdown of the petro-dollar, and collective ownership of all resources.

      Who gets me closer to that?

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    This is just the difference between getting sodomized by your government vs being given lube first before you’re fucked anyway.

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    UHOH!

    Somebody forgot to write a 1,000,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse then democrats before submitring one morsel of criticism against the Democratic party. Thus you are a secret Republican Russian.

    No you don’t get to ask for Ranked Choice voting to solve the spoiler effect. The spoiler effect must hover over your head every time you’re in the voting booth. THIS. IS. DEMOCRACY. MANIFEST!

    I see you left the voting booth without a big enough smile, it will be 10000% entirely your fault if the democrats weak willed attempts don’t work out.

    No you don’t get to have any input. Taxation without representation is how this country was founded silly. This is just how it works here. Maybe when you grow up, you will realize the real adults, the real americans are the only ones responsible enough to control the nation until their last gasp on this planet. Of course it is right to continue shifting the Overton window to the right! This is reality sweetheart, maybe you’re just a idealistic dreamer with to high of expectations.

    Now smile really REALLY big and say “Joe Biden is the most pro-union president in American history” 20 times in the mirror before you go to work your 3 part time jobs.

    /$

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      2 months ago

      You’re privileged because you won’t be murdered if we lose this election. You’ll only be murdered slowly over 30 years, along with everyone you love.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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        Everyone was already murdered in 2016 and the Republicans did Genocide + nuclear world war 3. How can they possibly do that again if we are already dead?

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          Democrats will send guns and bombs over there to do genocide somewhere else.

          Republicans will bring those guns and bombs back home and use them on us.

          So we have to support the Democrats.

          • Note: This does not apply to Red States, such as South Dakota or Florida or Texas, where you will still be subject to Republican guns and bombs, no matter who is President.
          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            Hell yeah other people should be murdered for our refusal to choose an actual left wing candidate!

            Throw some more brown people on the pile! Imagine if white people were killed, the horror! Imagine of course because just like 2016 it probably won’t happen, so let’s make sure real brown people will actually get killed!

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              Throw some more brown people on the pile!

              Literally go down to the Texas/Mexico border right the fuck now and say that again.

    • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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      Given that OP constantly concern trolls how awful biden is, id say that criticism of them wouldnt be out of line. There is a rather large contingent on the internet, and here on lemmy in particular, out to spread FUD to demoralize the american populace in hopes of discouraging them from voting. With that in mind, and considering the same profiles spread the same nearly exclusively anti-biden propaganda, and the same exact ones jump in to the others defense… methinks the lady doth protest too much.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Now smile really REALLY big and say “Joe Biden is the most pro-union president in American history”

      He’s the most pro-union President in my lifetime. Which is to say he’s not aggressively sabotaging and dismantling every union group his national police agencies can get their hooks into.

      This is the gold standard for a modern Democratic President. A guy who won’t show up with a crowbar and knee-cap you as you’re trying to move 40 years of accumulated economic baggage.

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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      2 months ago

      You know that people disagreeing with you is allowed, right?

      You say what you think, they say what they think, people read both. It’s how it’s supposed to work.

    • GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk
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      2 months ago

      THIS. IS. DEMOCRACY. MANIFEST!

      If I vote for the correct candidate, do I get a succulent chinese meal?

    • Mastengwe@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Somebody forgot to write a 1,000,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse then democrats

      You mean like the blathering mindless nonsense you copypasta all over the place?

  • Stern@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Dems will vote for Biden because he’ll only drink the blood of one baby while Trump drinks the blood of two.

    I get the harm reduction argument but jesus fuck we have 300 million+ people in this country are those two really the best we have to offer?