- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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Man facing pressure from swarm of angry hornets can see no possible way to soothe the increasingly enraged colony as he continues to hit nest with stick
Four colleges simply met with their protestors, came to an agreement to not invest in companies supporting the war, and publicly call for peaceful resolution.
Why is it so damn hard for all the other ones?
Jewish donors and money tied to Israel.
Yeah. It was a rhetorical question.
I’m a bit slow, but your rhetorical question wasn’t clear to me. I appreciated the answer, and your confirmation of what was said.
Wait… I thought we were supposed to deny any connection between Israel and Judaism to prevent being accused of antisemitism?
I can’t keep up here.
It’s foolish to pretend there aren’t some Jews who strongly identify with Israeli policy.
I’m just saying that until now, there has been a refusal to make any linkage between Israel the nation and Judaism itself.
I wonder what has changed for some of you, or if nothing has changed and you are just getting more comfortable.
Not Judaism. Some Jews.
All of Isis is Muslim. Not all Muslims are Isis.
Meh, evangelical Christians are also very pro-Israel, and give tons of money to pro-Israel groups. Some of the more hawkish strategists are pro-Isreal for military and geopolitical reasons.
There are Messianic Jews (actually Christians) living in Israel too.
It’s a tough thing. The Israelis and friends are using money and influence to get laws passed in the US and have protests shut down. Which fits really neatly into ancient (literally) anti semite ideas. And it’s really hard to talk about without someone just strawmanning you as a racist.
came to an agreement to not invest in companies supporting the war
No, they came to an agreement to listen to a proposal to maybe not invest in those companies.
If only he was a republican!
Then OP would forget that he exist! Maybe how he falsified intelligence to lie the country into an unjustified trillion dollar war! …All so they could fuck up the region and we could pretend ignorance as to why the region is somehow magically fucked up…
Maybe OP can keep posting articles desperately tying every problem to Biden while claiming they are trying to “wake up the dems”.
You know… by falsely blaming democrats for everything from the weather to your bitter coffee and ignoring the GOP every step, should be fine
Found the nazi
Ha look at you! You really did stuff! Why do you use the nazi word? Words are hard! You know words right?
Why so mad Mr.Nazi?
The fun part is you can keep calling me whatever.
The reality is you are throwing names for no good reason. So keep doing it…
The reason is letting you know you are spewing nazi nonsense and maybe you should reflect on why your opinions are that of a Nazi.
Certainly not that you have it wrong and call everyone a nazi in an knee jerk reaction…
Nah can’t be that…
I know it’s hard to accept your a nazi but the sooner you do the sooner you can change.
This reads like a MAGA supporter ranting about all the “witch hunt” charges Trump is facing.
Which is a shame. I mention the Iraq war and you think MAGA supporter.
Like marg taylor green ranting about forever wars it’s weird that you see trump supporter in all of this… it’s almost like there’s a nuance to addressing OPs line of posts as well as historical references to liberal politics…
But yea you see maga?
He’s wrong, you come across as a neo lib nazi. Neo libs are almost identical to conservatives so people get confused.
Ah neat I advocate for liberal ideals and I get called “neo lib” by folks claiming to be “confused”…
Yeah so you are a neo lib and your “liberal” ideals are pretty much Conservative ideals so people get confused because they are so similar to each other.
You are desperately classifying people such that you make enemies out of thin air. Please stop.
Neo libs and conservatives are my enemy so no I’m not making them out of thin air
The funny part is I can sit back and hear folks like you saying exactly that. It’s other folks being so neo…
Clearly I’m the enemy…Not possible that other people have a misunderstanding …
Nowhere did I call you a MAGA supporter, I just said you sound like one in that you’re rambling on about conspiracies and witch hunts in response to valid criticism. You’re being a party shill and sycophant just like MAGA supporters.
Cool you see Biden support as conspiracy BS and party shilling. Just like maga supporters you got it right.
Americans right now.
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US politicians are bought by the israeli lobby. We need to crack down on corruption in the most extreme way.
Here’s an easy decision… stop blocking the international community from pursuing diplomatic and economic remedies that would pressure Isreal to not commit genocide. Stop supplying military aide (potentially excepting the specialized hardware to maintain the iron dome).
Sounds like a pretty fucking easy solution…
Sounds like the Biden administration is taking a needlessly hard path just to appease AIPAC and similar foreign actors.
It’s important not to fall into a purely majority rule situation, but the Jewish community in America is divided on this matter… we can’t let the minority of a minority that’s in favor of this genocide steer international policy.
How is that easy?
Biden has to support Israel. It’s a centerpiece of us foreign policy for a reason; they want a friend in the region, and there is huge support from his constituents. It’s basically politically impossible to say no.
Says the nazi
We don’t need Isreal as a strategic partner - we’re on good terms with the UAE, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia and generally good terms with Turkey, Oman and Iraq - Isreal isn’t foundational to American security, America is foundational to Isreali security.
You say that, but americas actions paint a totally diffedifferent picture. They are joined at the hip with Israel and that isn’t going to change easily.
That isn’t for strategic reasons though… it’s because most Americans want a peaceful Isreal to exist (partially because the holocaust was awful, partially because we’ve got a large jewish population, partially because we like underdogs and partially because racism) and the fact that Isreal is inciting violence is just now reaching some people. I think public opinion is moving hard away from Isreal but, historically, most Americans supported giving them outrageous levels of aide.
Nobody needs a friend so badly that they’re justified in making friends with a genocidal maniac. I understand that Israel has been a long-term investment, but the amount of human suffering going on right now vastly outweighs any lamentations about sunk cost. What this country needs is a president willing to show that he cares about preventing suffering above all else. Doctors take an oath to both do good and do no harm - it’s time for our presidents to do the same, and be held to it to the same degree.
The entire bottom paragraph of what you said is entirely wrong. I support Palestine and stopping Israel, but a majority of Jewish people (62%) in the US are fine with the war and the direction it’s going in. As are most Americans. Your point of not having majority rule is true to some extent, but it’s hard to argue that while also knowing that not respecting Majority rule is how we got the first trump administration… Data
It’s a bit more complicated I think and the polling is pretty close. Here’s a survey from about a month ago that puts the divide closer to 50/50. I suppose a better way to word my last paragraph is either “half a minority” or “a portion of a minority”.
I did want to highlight the Jewish community’s opinion though because I think the division there is extremely telling - and because I know the evangelical community is all in on genocide but, imo: they’re a bunch of fucking idiots, I don’t care what they think, and their opinions are irrelevant to politics because most of them will vote for Trump come hell or high water.
It’s not Jews, it’s Republicans that you need to look at. The US sees Israel as an investment first, a military base second, and a sovereign nation third.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1
I don’t disagree - but in terms of this election everyone who considers themselves a Trump republican is unswayable… but there are a lot of folks outraged at Netanyahu who may refuse to vote at all.
They’ll be inviting a far worse supporter of genocide of not just Palestinians, but Ukrainians as well.
You’ll not hear any disagreements from me - but even here on lemmy you’ll find people who are planning to refrain from voting because they morally object to voting for someone who is supporting genocide. That’s a very fair morale stance in the abstract but in this case you’ve got two real choices and choosing not to vote is inviting even more death.
You’re right, and it’s sad. They really don’t understand how much worse it’ll be if they put their pride in front of the polls. I’m voting reluctantly out of fear of the repercussions of another Trump presidency, and I’m older than average on here. They have so much more to lose that won’t just “come back” with the next election.
As are most Americans.
Weird to correct someone and then just add in an extra bonus fact that’s wrong. Unless you’re claiming “not sure” is “fine with”, which it isn’t. “Fine with” is “acceptable”.
About four-in-ten U.S. adults (38%) say Israel’s conduct of the war has been acceptable, and 34% say it has been unacceptable. The remaining 26% are unsure.
And more importantly, these aren’t random samples of the population. Dem/Lean Dem respondents said Israel’s conduct is unacceptable by 52-22.
As are most Americans.
There are more non-Jewish Americans in support of Israel. Due to party loyalty and skewed right-wing media, 41% of Republicans think Israel is doing a good job and 24% think they should kill more Palestinians.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1
People supporting genocide doesn’t make it okay.
That would require admitting that they were wrong. Which I admit is hard, but come on, man.
He’s got a super easy solution:
“Sorry Israel, but you fucked up royally! We’re suspending all aid; recognizing the state of Palestine as an independent nation, and will begin the process of rebuilding Gaza and reappropriating all of your illegal settlements on their land.”
Simple!
“Okay. We’re joining BRICS. Mr. Putin loves genocide, and he’s really going to love all this American tech we can show him.”
Simple indeed.
They’re going to join a coalition that includes Iran?
Tomorrow? Of course not. Inside the decade? Absolutely. Saudi-Israel relations are thawing as we speak, and that hostility basically dates since the foundation of the modern Israeli state. If Israel and Iran suddenly find themselves on the same side of geopolitics (i.e., if both of them are American enemies because apparently a lot of Lemmings think we should break diplomatic relations with Israel altogether, meaning that Israel is on the side of China, Russia, etc.), then anything is possible.
What would Bibi’s alternative be? Go it alone?
Israel just attacked Iran, who then responded by shooting a bunch of rockets at them literally just days ago. I also don’t think Iran is going to back Israel while they’re slaughtering a bunch of Palestinians. Furthermore Bibi isn’t going to be around forever and it remains to be seen if the rest of the Israeli leadership follows in his footsteps once he’s gone.
You’re right. Forging any kind of working relationship between Israel and Iran would be extremely challenging. I guess maybe Israel and the US should try to find a path forward as allies.
I see no issue with forging a path forward as allies provided they end their genocide and occupation. I mean, what else is there really to be done short of that?
US sells/provides/uses so many armaments around the world that it’s laughable to think Russia doesn’t already have their hands on at least a vast chunk of our “tech”. Surely trying to reverse-engineer what they can, as I’m sure any
Usually it’s the manufacture process of tech that is the “secret sauce”.
Stop aiding Israel’s genocide doesn’t seem too difficult, but I’m not a Zionist.
They’re cracking down harder on these protesters than the January 6th insurrectionists lol.
In all fairness, they don’t have the president’s encouragement.
Trump was in charge on J6. The failure to crack down then, is in part due to Trump intentionally not cracking down. I would compare this to the heavy handed crackdown on the DC Black Lives Matter protesters. You know, the one where he heals a Bible upside down. That was a violent crackdown on mostly peaceful protestors.
Fair points.
Side note just in case it saves you from a gotcha in arguing with a Maga nutjob, but Trump didn’t hold the Bible upside down that day, per NYT, Politifact, and other fact checkers. He’s still a useless piece of shit.
I’ve watched the video many times. He ultimately gets it right, but clearly fumbles with it upside down as though it was a completely novel object.
Trump refused to send people to crack down on the January 6th insurrectionists.
Also, pretty hard to say that when one didn’t last a day and resulted in criminal accusations, the other has been going on for over a week and, as far as I know, has seen no one being criminally accused.
People are being charged with assault, hate speech, trespass and resisting arrest.
All of which are criminal charges.
Stop supplying the weapons for Genocide?
[Biden] largely sidestepped protesters’ demands, which have included ending U.S. support for Israeli military operations. Asked after his remarks whether the demonstrations would prompt him to consider changing course, Biden responded with a simple “no.”
Biden on this topic.
Supporting genocide or not supporting genocide. Gee, what a tough choice.
In your words of a tough choice… The moral choice is not tough. The quick “just do it” take is not tough. It’s easy to just throw all in.
The actual steps that must be made at the level of potus are tough even with the will. The time, the complexity, the repercussions, the fallout… the reality that is a little less clear than “all or nothing” is hard. The ship does not turn on a dime.
Not disagreeing with you but just saying it’s not a simple choice, but instead a tough direction in a world where the GOP sees presidential powers only apply to republicans and democrats aren’t even citizens.
How hard is to just not sign a piece of paper that gives tens of billions to Israel? Seems pretty easy to me.
There are many things that can be done, but biden isn’t doing any of them. There are also things he could simply not do (e.g. supplying weapons), but he goes out of his way to do them. I’d understand if biden was trying to do the right thing, but he’s really not.
I would argue that they are being done but you’re not seeing the effects quite yet.
I can dig it. While the compromise is unfortunately still ongoing, it’s important to not get caught up in compromise
Until we know those details, your just projecting cope.
Recognizing the speed of reality isn’t projecting anything and learn to spell.
You can argue it but you would be dead fucking wrong.
sigh
Study a little US history and you’ll find we’ve struggled with that question pretty much since the nation’s founding.
It’s not been much of a struggle. We’ve almost always been solidly in favor
Before Pearl Harbor, the US was totally fine with what the Nazis were doing in Europe, even going as far as to disparage Jewish people and refuse to allow them to come from Europe to the US for asylum. Seems things never change and our leaders consistently have no problem being on the wrong side of history.
Probably wouldn’t have had an issue or done anything in Europe if nazis didn’t declare war on us
small pox blankets have entered the chat
The fact that the US has made bad choices doesn’t make not supporting genocide a complex question
It does beg the question, what other pressures is he facing and why would he bow to them?
being President isnt supposed to be an easy job… he’s been in politics 52 years now, cant he figure out a solution?
Clearly he can’t. He is a lifetime politician and he is the living embodiment of “status quo”.
It’s not his to seek.
Wow CNN. Tone deaf much?
CNN is DNC propaganda just like Fox news is RNC propaganda.
No it isn’t.
Presenting independently verifiable facts in a way that bolsters your perspective is not the same as making up stories and using entirely false data to incite your listeners.
I bet fox news watchers say the exact same thing.
Not the ones I’ve spoken to.
Conservatives won’t usually meet a challenging topic head on, they try to avoid and misdirect from rather than address an issue.
It boils down to a fundamental difference in perspective and ultimately behavior.
When conservatives are presented with information, even completely made up stories, that agree with their preconceived notions, they accept the story regardless of the logic or substance of the story. Once information that disagrees with their preconceived notions arises, they reject the story regardless of the logic or substance because it isn’t something they’ve learned before.
When liberals are presented with information, they accept or reject the story based on the available substantiated information and how it fits into what they have learned so far.
This is the process behind what fundamentally makes a “conservative” and a “liberal”.
Conservatives are inherently afraid of challenges to their worldview and as a result, resist change simply for the sake of protecting themselves as long as possible.
Liberals are also inherently afraid of challenges to their worldview, but persist in discovering the truth and apply what they’ve learned to their behavior because of the benefits that context, understanding and new knowledge might bring about.
Jesus dude… do you hear yourself?
Figuratively?
