What? A left wing movement that uses the wrong name to make people understand what they truly mean? Really? Nah, that would never happen!
Adversaries to a movement will split hairs and redefine a movement anyways.
That’s all we are seeing here. Look at now they tried to frame Black Lived Matters, something quite clean cut.
BLM was a scam, a grift… that’s an undeniable fact.
What was achieved? Because what we witnessed was violence, theft and property destruction. If you deny this, you are willfully ignorant or a bold faced liar.
Oh and Malcolm X was right. More Black people should study Malcolm X and his message.
I distinctly remember Malcolm X saying the white moderate fucking sucks
Malcolm X saying the white liberals
Fixed.
They are kind of the same thing, no?
Classical liberalism and all that jazz.
Classical Liberalism is an economic philosophy.
It’s unrelated to sociopolitical liberalism.Bold of you to assume the two aren’t completely intertwined.
No. We suck at naming things. And communication in general.
“Black Lives Matter Too” would have been more clear.
“Replace the Police” would have been better also.Even mainstream Democrats suck at it. They should be shouting every day, how they’re taking on big corp’s, going after antitrust abuses and unpaid taxes; While refusing to audit anyone making less than $250,000. But instead they just keep saying some variation of “The economy’s great, stupid.”
Leftists can name things appropriately. You just proved that. It’s the “moderate” “liberals” that run the DNC that have the issue. That’s just because they are desperately trying to to convince the right that “there won’t be any significant changes,” while still pandering to the center. They don’t care about the left except to make us shut up and sit down.
If people are trying to make you shut up and sit down then you’re probably the problem.
If that’s the case I’m proud to be a “problem,” and “inconvenience.”
Your time is up weirdo commie.
Law enforcement based on the Peelian principles is not a tennable thing. Sure, every US beat officer will learn it in training but they also learn the public is the enemy, which has been the way of things for over a century.
if we could imagine a new age of policing, it would involve much less enforcement and much more prevention, mostly disincentivising people from engaging in desperation crime. Heck, we might even end retributive sentencing for a more restorative system.
If we dropped our current law enforcement – the whole thing – and turned to investigating and intercepting elite deviance (white collar crime) we would save more lives, prevent more damage and more cost by orders of magnitude. Not that law enforcement actually does much to reduce crime.
“too” implies
a) they don’t matter yet
and
b) mattering is a new concept we should consider.
The statement is clear without modifier and requires no qualification, clarification or context: do black lives matter or not?
Or to take the inverse: under what circumstances do black lives not matter? If the answer is “there are none” then obviously black lives matter.
You’re not wrong, I guess the biggest issue with it being misconstrued was by people who watch Fox news, but honestly Fox news was gonna find a way to spin it no matter what.
I’m not sure if you’re arguing for or against “too”.
Because yah, police specifically, and society generally, have been acting as though black lives don’t matter. And the slogan “black lives matter” was created to argue against that idea. But it was easily confusing. Hell I was immediately confused the first time I heard it, and actually thought “Well yah. All lives matter. What are they talking about?” It took me a good min or two to understand. But simply adding the “too” immediately clarifies that.
“Black lives matter” isn’t wrong. It’s just not immediately as clear as it could be.
They would have willfully misinterpreted both of those alternatives and convinced you they were poorly named anyways.
They may have willfully misrepresented, but couldn’t really have an excuse to mistakenly misinterpret them. That was our bad.
Is your argument that a genuine, good faith interpretation of “Black Lives Matter” is “Only Black Lives Matter”?
This isn’t how English works. If I say “I like your mom” to an SO, they wouldn’t interpret it as I don’t like them and instead like their mom. I don’t have to say “I like your mom too”.
It should have been called of course black lives matter then move on from the stupid race baiting movement and get back to living.
Anyone coming back with “all lives matter” proves the ease of confusion over the slogan.
My own immediate response to it was “Yah, of course they do. All lives matter. Why single out Black lives? The police shouldn’t be killing anyone.”
I’m not going to try mind read anyone else.
Why single out Black lives?
Isn’t that kind of the point of BLM?
People who go out and counter protest actively have given it more than a cursory thought. They know BLM isn’t advocating for white genocide (okay, most of them understand this. There are some literal nazis/skin heads/white nationalists in the counter protesting groups that believe in The Great Replacement, but they believed this prior to BLM existing).
Yet they still go out and counter protest. It’s not confusion at that point. You can’t go up to an all lives matter reactionary and say “Hey! Did you know BLM doesn’t actually want to murder all white people? Are you a fan of BLM now?” and actually expect any progress.
So… anti-physical labor work?
Non-physical labour is also often incredibly stressful, stress has similar effect on both mental and physical health of people.
Hm… I can agree with that. Especially if working in a toxic environment. After all, when you’re negatively impacted mentally, it does have the effect of making you physically lethargic.
Not just lethargy really, chronic stress is really bad for your body. Also the symptoms make it more likely for people to not engage in good lifestyle choices like exercise and better food.
Anti-work is anti-exploitation.
It’s not about people wanting to be lazy yet still have all the niceties, it’s about not being coerced into a lifetime of labor to enrich the ones coercing you. A person’s labor should enrich themselves and those they choose.
Anti-work is anti-exploitation.
Well, then why not call it anti-exploitation? That would clear up a whole lot of things.
I think that would cause a different confusion. I don’t know that this is a concept that can be expressed in a single existing word. Sometimes concepts take time before the right word arises. No sense blaming people for using the language available to them to express a novel idea.
It is tricky to make something both snappy and accurate. I think anti-JOB might have worked better, but it sounds like a sex strike, so don’t put me in charge of marketing.
Get to work bum. If your job hurts you, better yourself and get a better job. Either way, stop whining.
Enjoying that delicious boot leather?
You wouldn’t know what boots are bum
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !workreform@lemmy.world
You guys got some Doritos?
Yeah no.
That is not what most here say when they talk about it. It’s immediately “working for a salary is slavery!” (Literally that I’ve been told literally dozens of times now here)
Everyone can agree with the second paragraph, most people here subscribe to the first paragraph, though.
Once I saw a guy arguing for pure capitalism because otherwise the state would have to force people to work with threats of incarceration or whatever.
It’s like some sort of trolley problem delusion. It is fine shoving desperate people into whatever jobs they can get, but only if the Invisible Hand does it. It’s fine if the threat is homelessness and starvation, but only if the Invisible Hand does it.
It’s weird how the name doesn’t break down to what it really means.
If only there was a word that meant forced labour that injured the worker.
Didn’t they have a whole civil war over that in the Reddit sub? Some genuinely thought the sub was for people who just don’t want to work at all and some were more thinking of work reform
Something like that, yes. I believe that was the cause why /r/WorkReform was started which is much better name - less confrontational, less off-putting for people who might be on the fence on the topic. Because honestly, “anti work” means “against work”.
The civil war was mainly because one of the mods went on Fox News, and it did not go well.
That’s putting the dogwalker fiasco mildly
Compromise: be the king of Doritos but also have ample opportunity for a job that actually pays a living wage; and good insurance to coincide with said title
Maybe I missed the boat on why we do it this way, but I think one of the first things we need to do is decouple jobs from insurance. Not much sucks as bad as losing a job then simultaneously losing insurance (oh but cobra! No cobra is stupidly expensive for someone out of a job)
Wages would need to go up to cover what was lost, not to mention reaching a living wage, the pay still needs to cover cost of insurance. Also in that vein, our tax brackets need to rise, our current ones are outdated compared to inflation.
This soapbox goes on a ways, but that’s probably enough for now.
Fuck Cobra, and, also, hard agree. Healthcare should just…exist. Accessibly.
If I sort this community by top for the week, this is the top post.
The second post hilariously concludes “All work is degrading.”
Is that right? To the average person, “Anti-Work” sounds like you’re straight up against working, and unless you want to explain this to every single person individually, Fox News is going to keep having a field day misrepresenting your movement.
Leftists really suck at marketing. Between that, antifa, and defunding the police, they really don’t seem to know how to put a name to an idea that can’t be misconstrued by an opponent with the maturity of a 5 year old (which, as luck would have it, is most opposition). I’d even argue BLM should be on that list.
Edit to add: global warming.
We’re really good at marketing exclusively to other leftists.
Yes, the problem is you create a bubble and look stupid when you talk about anything outside of your bubble.
The real problem is that big media (and therefore the prevailing narratives) are all controlled by the authoritarian corporate establishment.
I believe it stems from Liberalism. Class consciousness is on the rise, but newly-class aware liberals aren’t yet aquainted with Leftist theory. These ideas are popular among liberals that are becoming more familiar with leftism but are disconnected from the centuries of leftist progress.
Honestly that mod torpedoing the whole movement with a dumb interview and forcing the rebrand to work reform was probably one of the best things that could’ve happened.
Yeah, “Work Reform” is much better. There’s this weird trend of massively exaggerating a talking point, as the echo chamber seems incapable of thinking about any kind of optics or moderation
No work reform implies slightly different, which isn’t the point. Any message must make you question the system.
“Anti-Work” does this better how? I’m genuinely confused
If you’re marketing only to people with critical thinking skills you’ll miss most of the voting population, but you do you.
Anti-work is everyone living like a king and eating Doritos and nobody doing hard work.
I would argue: Anti-work is everyone having the choice if living like a king and eating Doritos and nobody doing hard work, if they don’t want to.
Some people enjoy and get great satisfaction from hard work. Most people are inclined to do some form of work (including creative) rather than be completely idle. They should be allowed to do so, if they wish.
If everyone here, as they claim, is not against work, then why call it anti work? Why not call it anti labour exploitation?
For all the claims made in this post, I see a hundred saying that wage labor is the same as slavery, so this is a bit hard to believe
There’s !workreform@lemmy.world
As someone who is legitimately anti-work I have a real problem with people who just want to change things. We’re not getting FALGSC with “work reform” because then there’s no reason to fully automate it.
We’re pretty far from being able to automate everything
And we’ll stay that way as long as we think people should have jobs
Which is why it’s a goal not a demand.
FALGSC isn’t going to happen overnight, and work reform is a realistic interim solution.
Arguing for lower hours and more pay to match the massive increases in productivity we’ve seen over the last 100 years is totally feasible. And a step in the right direction long term.
FALGSC is currently not feasible, and at this rate automation is only making the rich richer
So much this, even if we saw automation replace millions of jobs tomorrow, it would take years for any meaningful shift to support those out of work. On the other hand, even some conservatives are interested in 32 hour work weeks. Baby steps are the most we can realistically hope for.
“Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism” for those that want to save the time searching.
What even…?
I just learned the term, but it sounds like the society from Star Trek but everyone is Sulu.
When I dig my garden I am doing work. That obviously entails no wage labour let alone labour exploitation. Why is it hard to belive people might be against wage labour in its present form but not against fulfilling, self directed labour?
Because getting food from your own garden is cute but absurdly unsustainable for 8 billion people in this world?
Like it or not, factories and large companies are the reason that 8 billion people can love on this planet. Granted, said companies can be quite abusive and a lot of rules are still in place allowing this abuse, but we’re getting better at it, ymmv per country. Either way, abuse is not as bad today as it was 100 years ago or even 50 years ago. If automation and AI continue their current course, we’ll all be working 2-3 day weeks soon as well.
Either way, I get the point, I’m just saying don’t swing too far in the other direction either.
Just an example, take caring for my kids or decorating my house or even working out if you don’t like that one. What do you mean by “the other direction”?
I’m sorry, I don’t understand. You listed child care, and hobbies. What havr those to do with work?
The other direction being this antiwork thing which is highly unrealistic and in reality just a bunch of lazy guys complain about having to actually do work, like everyone else, thinking that somehow magically the world would be so much better if everyone dat on their fat ass
OK so you’re just here to strawman and insult. Thanks for outing yourself.
