Nope. He probably woulda gotten himself assassinated by these fucking capitalists and then we coulda had a proper left wing martyr to galvanize us… Then again, what happened after JFK? oh.
Guess y’all is just run by murderers. go figure
You mean making him one of the most powerful senators and the longest serving independent senator in the history of the country, as well as a bestselling millionaire author? Boo hoo, I wish America would do that to me.
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We’re only socialist for bailouts.
If that were the case, then the banks would all be publicly owned now.
Bailouts aren’t a little bit of socialism or “crony” capitalism - it’s just capitalism. The banks own the factors of production, bought most representatives, and effectively bailed themselves out.
The banks need to die, every single one of them yes all of them.
I think what they’re saying is that we subsidize losses for the rich, but for citizens it’s rugged individualism. Bootstraps and such. The tax dollars are always there to bail out companies or to fight wars, but not to serve the needs of the people.
Sanders isn’t a socialist. His platform is right of where the centrist Justin Trudeau is.
Your comment getting downvoted is pretty dumb, he is absolutely not a socialist. He hasn’t expressed the desire to abolish capitalism and replace it with socialism. He just wants “humane” capitalism. Wanting public healthcare/social safety/a welfare state doesn’t make you a socialist. He’s fine private industry as long as they’re regulated enough/as long as the workers are treated well.
Australia elected someone pretty close to a socialist once. Not really a socialist, but far more left wing than anyone America or Britain has elected in living history, and far more left than anyone Australia has had since.
America organised a coup against his Government. And like, yes, we all know America loves doing coups in foreign countries. But usually it’s countries most Americans would perceive as “third world”. Either a political enemy or a neutral irrelevancy. (To be very clear, I’m not saying they are irrelevant, but that most Americans would think of them as not very significant.) But in 1975 they did it to one of their ostensible closest allies. Because he was too left wing for Ford, Kissinger, and William Colby. (Side note, in looking up who was the director of the CIA at the time, I discovered that Colby was succeeded in that role by…George Bush Sr. They elect literal spies for president??) And because he threatened to close down their spy base.
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Hawke was good, but he also started (greatly accelerated under Keating) our slide towards a neoliberal UK-like “new Labor”.
I was talking about Whitlam.
The way Corbyn is spoken about even by some Labour party MPs is grotesque, as if he led some evil regime.
Just shows how politicians with principles and integrity are treated.
It’s not possible.
By design, of course.
For those who won’t look it up the takeaway is that when a massively popular, actually left leaning candidate makes it far enough in the race and poses a real threat to the establishment despite the hurdles it has already put in their way in the form of the media and state dictated education that sow hatred of anything remotely socialist, the media will then go in to overdrive to stop them from getting in to power by any means possible.
And it works. Again - because of a combination of no education for critical thinking against the establishment, and a media that serves it.
It’s one of the ways in which the system is rigged to always work in favour of the rich and powerful, and why elections are nothing but a charade (especially in a monarchy) - they will never let us have an equitable and just society that works for all of its members, they have too much to lose, and they would kill us all off in a blink if it protected their status (they already are). The time for fighting back in self defence is long overdue…Watching all that transpire over years was so heartbreaking. It’s such a rare thing to get a genuinely good politician.
I’ve always felt that he would have delivered against trump in 2016. A paragon of living up to expectations of what our leadership should do at every stage of his life.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2016/02/18/bernie-sanders-and-the-willis-wagon-protests-of-1963/
Pretty sure he’d have gotten the Kennedy treatment if his policies didn’t serve the owner class. But probably in a plausibly deniable way, like a heart attack or such.
Also, let’s face it: America didn’t do anything to Bernie, they did it to themselves…
Debbie Wasserman Schultz did that to America. The primary turnout was a direct result of Bernie’s lack of coverage throughout his campaign.
Yeah but it’s her turn.
Made him a senator?
I’ll bite in case this isn’t trolling. They are likely referring to how people, even those who were fairly liberal, made it seem like Bernie was too far out there to be a valid choice for president.
Maybe a little trolling. I was a Bernie supporter, donor, and volunteer, but I accept that he lost fair and square I am just pretty tired of people feeling the need to relitigate the 2016 primary every 4 years, even though none of the candidates or leadership are currently involved.
It was painful for all of us who poured our heart into his campaign, and I understand that people were frustrated, but at this point picking that scab serves no purpose than to depress voter engagement, which is why I am skeptical that it is being done in good faith. The DNC worked with Bernie after 2016 (I sat on one of the focus groups and filled out several survey) and made a bunch of reforms, but you never hear anything about that for some reason.
And I personally agree with that with one caveat not to be a president, but to be electable. While he was popular on the left, I think he would not pull independence/centrist and would lose election.
You left out article “the” in last sentence, comrade.
Blyat!
He polled 7 points better against Trump than Hillary did in 2016. Although that being said, it seems pretty well accepted that the polling was pretty unreliable in 2016.
it seems pretty well accepted that the polling was pretty unreliable in 2016.
That’s true in the sense people believe it and “accept” it…
But it’s not accurate in the respect that polls were/are unreliable.
The margins that predicted a Clinton victory were smaller than margin of error.
Everyone that knew anything about statistics kept trying to point that out, they just kept getting shouted down and accused of being a trump supporter.
Literally the same that’s happening now with current polls.
It’s just people ignoring what doesn’t agree with them, and then refusing to accept responsibility for ignoring all the warning signs.
“We” didn’t do shit to Bernie…
The wealthy and politically connected fucked over Bernie and every other American like they consistently do. Because Bernie would have actually helped Americans and they’d have another FDR to deal with.
People need to stop thinking it’s D vs R. Both parties look out more for their donors than America, and they have a lot of the same donors. The only explanation for the DNCs actions back to 2016, is they’d rather have trump than a progressive.
trump let’s moderates lower standards, a progressive president means standards would be raised, and no more Republican or “moderate” Dem president.
Ol’ “both sides are the same” givesomefucks commenting on a “Biden is the devil” return2ozma post
The two sides of a coin are different, but they’re still the same coin.
They are NOT the same, but failing to realize they’re BOTH enemies means your dumb, fucking STUOID ass will fail to realize you’re relying on ENEMIES to fight yourr battles against R’s. Which is … say it with me… fucking STUPID. Interesting how much you want to be stupid. Sad.
You’re going to win a lot of hearts and minds with that rhetoric lol. More importantly, where did you derive any of that about my political beliefs based on what I said
I’m not aiming to win hearts and minds. I’m making a basic observation even a child should understand. The real question is, why are you more foolish than a child?
I hope you’re getting paid to post this stuff, otherwise the projection here is off the charts
I’m sorry basic reality confuses you. No wonder you don’t see a problem with choosing lesser evils.
Notice how I have NEVER ONCE said, “do not vote blue in 2024”, but all your stupid ass hears is that. You are biased against logic all the same as conservatives. Pathetic.
Are you an alt account for one of the two people I posted about? If not you have a serious case of main character syndrome to think I was talking about you before you were even involved in this conversation lol
Bernie could have still won if enough people showed up to vote.
We need to take some responsibility for that
I caucased for Bernie in Washington for the primary, what a miserable experience. It took all day, the entire event was run by old white ladies in Hillary shirts, they lost the vote count and had to recount several times, etc. I have no confidence that my vote for a Bernie was even counted, and that’s just one location.
I also caucused for Bernie in Washington. He won the district level elections, but lost at the county level elections. Basically my district and the surrounding districts were pretty strongly in favor of him, but the surrounding areas were not.
See now that seems fishy to me. I know Washington gets pretty red outside the city and the counties with the major metro areas swing pretty far east to incorporate those areas, BUT back before the spectacle of Trump I knew and worked with a bunch of Republicans who actually genuinely liked Bernie. Now of course Republicans probably aren’t participating in the Democratic primary caucuses, but I still find it kind of hard to believe Dems in the city wanted Bernie but country Dems wanted Hillary? No matter how much time passes I’m not buying it.
it’s also completely possible that your Republican friends “liked” Bernie in the same way that they “like” Carter: they recognize that he’s a good guy personally, but dislike his politics enough to not vote for him.
Apt name.
No they liked that he was an honest politician who wasn’t afraid to speak his mind. Then Trump kind of ran away with that and that’s what they like about Trump now even though it’s all BS.
Also I never said they were my friends.
I don’t understand the whole “he speaks his mind” appeal with trump. Drunk people speak their minds too, but most of what they say is pointless, just like with trump. I prefer someone who puts their thoughts together into intelligible messages, rather than babbling their entire stream of consciousness.
No he couldn’t.
At least according to what a DNC lawyer told a judge when people tried to sue the DNC for rigging the 2016 primary.
Their official defense was essentially “so what if we did? We can do that because primaries are nonbinding and more of a survey”
The same lawyer also argued that there is “no contractual obligation” to prevent advantage or disadvantage between candidates, and that the evenhandedness and impartiality language in the DNC charter is not “self-defining.”
And
We could have—and we could have voluntarily decided that, Look, we’re gonna go into back rooms like they used to and smoke cigars and pick the candidate that way. That’s not the way it was done. But they could have. And that would have also been their right.
Important to point out that the DNC’s lawyers just flat out admitted there that it’s a thing that has happened before.
Lots of people don’t get that for some reason.
The entire purpose of the superdelegate is to give the DNC overarching influence over the primary process. They are not in favor of the people electing their candidates uninfluenced. They will do whatever is necessary to keep their party as it is.
I was talking about 2020 where he lost due to poor turnout but okay.
Biden, whose campaign fortunes had suffered from losses in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada, made a comeback by overwhelmingly winning the South Carolina primary, motivated by strong support from African American voters, an endorsement from South Carolina U.S. Representative Jim Clyburn, as well as Democratic establishment concerns about nominating Sanders.[8] After Biden won South Carolina, and one day before the Super Tuesday primaries, several candidates dropped out of the race and endorsed Biden in what was viewed as a consolidation of the party’s moderate wing. Prior to the announcement, polling saw Sanders leading with a plurality in most Super Tuesday states.[9] Biden then won 10 out of 15 contests on Super Tuesday, beating back challenges from Sanders, Warren, and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, solidifying his lead.[9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
Most of those “moderates” who dropped out the day before Super Tuesday and endorsed Biden went on to be rewarded with cabinet positions…
If you were running a campaign, and you wanted to win, would you pick 24 hrs before a bunch of states voted to drop out?
Or would you wait another day to see how you did?
Like, this is literally the primary after the DNC said they could interfere in any primary, and you think that was organic that they all dropped at once and endorsed the party favorite right before Super Tuesday?
It went from Sanders being projected to win the most, to Biden getting 10/15.
Do you think Biden and the DNC were ignorant it was going to happen?
You think they told Bernie it was going to happen?
How could anyone expect him to react in 15 states within 24 hrs?
What you’ve cited here is a legal argument the DNC used in court as a defendant in a lawsuit. That doesn’t change the fact that Hillary Clinton got more votes than Sanders in 2016, which literally happened. I voted for Sanders and thought he had a better shot at beating Trump, and thought Clinton was a terrible candidate. That doesn’t change the fact that a ton of Democratic voters preferred Clinton. Women in particular were very excited about the possibility of a woman president. I knew a ton of people who voted for her over Sanders and who were excited to do so.
Either way, the superdelegate system that locked in Clinton’s nomination was changed after 2016, yet even after Biden beat Sanders fair and square in 2020 you’d still rather think there’s some grand DNC conspiracy instead of the reality that there just aren’t enough voters supporting your preferred candidate.
That doesn’t change the fact that Hillary Clinton got more votes than Sanders in 2016, which literally happened.
No one said it wasn’t what happened…
That’s not what the lawsuit alleged even…
It said the DNC influenced the primary
And the DNC said “so what, primaries don’t even matter, even if Bernie won we could have just not nominated them”.
It’s not complicated.
When accused of rigging the primary, their response was it’s legal for them to rig it or even just ignore the results.
That’s what “blue no matter who” gets you.
To spell it out perfectly clear (because I’m not replying again):
Not having any standards besides the letter by someone’s name, get you candidates people won’t vote for, which depresses turnout and allows Republicans to become president.
When the DNC acts like this, it makes the pool of democratic voters smaller.
Lol How did they rig it if Hillary got more votes? Get out of your bubble, dude.
Did you just pick a random comment and start reading?
That explains why you’re so confused, everything is difficult to understand when you strip away all context.
So you go try and re-read this thread, and see it that’ll help you figure this out
Says the one stuck repeating bullshit arguments disproven back in 2016. You’re adding random claims onto the facts. Me cutting to the actual events isn’t removing context. Idk how anyone still thinks Bernie had a chance or that it was stolen from him, unless they live in an isolated bubble with other Bernie bros.
They still said “even if he did win, we would run our own guy anyway. Voters and donors be damned.”
Which is still fascist behavior even if you agree with it.
Who is “they” and what did “they” say again?
You’ve read it and you know precisely what they said and what they meant (not that it wasn’t straight forward in the first place.)
Blocking because I don’t owe my time to MAGA types whether blue or red. Take your disingenuous bullshit elsewhere.
What are you even talking about about? I never once ever heard someone say (what I can only assume you’re saying since you haven’t clarified anything) that if Sanders won the primary “they” would “still run their own guy.”
Bernie would have actually helped Americans and they’d have another FDR to deal with.
The President isn’t a dictator. Bernie wouldn’t have been able to do anything because of the Republican controlled Congress.
He wouldn’t have been able to do anything because of Congress, period. Neither party wants the things that Bernie wants. He’s a socialist, and both major parties are very much pro-corporate capitalists.
Ever heard of a National Referendum ? If Bernie as POTUS saw that Senate and Congress can’t act in the Peoples best interests, he could hold National Referendum votes to determine the popular vote from the people. It would bypass Congress and Senate and even SCOTUS will be impotent to go against the POTUS or the popular vote.
It takes Courage and Conviction of a strong leader to hold the vote to the people to pass legislation through a plebiscite.
He would have been the leader of the Democratic party… And as such he could have made some serious changes to that party and who is allowed to be in it… Possibly even giving us an actual people’s party
Because throwing out half the party to fit The Leader’s vision is working out so well for the RNC
It is if you’re Trump or a maga
The only explanation for the DNCs actions back to 2016, is they’d rather have trump than a progressive.
The DNC has spent over 44 million dollars helping pro-trump Republicans win their primaries over moderate Republicans, so that they can point at the Republican party and say “look, there are no moderate Republicans left”. The DNC is just as guilty as the trump Republicans for radicalizing the Republican party.
That’s a preeeeeeetty big stretch. I presume this is what you’re talking about?
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries/
Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. What about my statement is a stretch? They’re trying to promote radicalized candidates because they believe they’ll be easier to defeat. It’s underhanded, and erodes voter confidence. It’s also limiting voter choices, attempting to solidify the Democratic party as the only viable choice for candidates, which further erodes our democracy. Citizens deserve choices. Locking elections to a choice between a radical Trumper and the DNC doesn’t benefit the country as a whole, it only benefits the DNC. They’ve received considerable criticism from members of both parties over these actions, criticisms which I believe are valid.
Edit: I re-read my original comment and I concede it’s “a stretch”, or rather just outright inaccurate that the Democrats are just as guilty as trump Republicans for radicalizing the party. But their actions make them complicit.
It was Obama. Bernie was going to win. Obama called up Buttigieg and Klobuchar and told them to drop out in order to consolidate the non-Bernie vote around Biden. They did as they were asked.
It was definitely that, and not that Buttigieg’s campaign stalled out after he couldn’t snowball his Iowa win
phoneymouse 13 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)
It was Obama. Bernie was going to win. Obama called up Buttigieg and Klobuchar and told them to drop out in order to consolidate the non-Bernie vote around Biden. They did as they were asked.
You mean Hilary or in 2020 when Bernie firmly supported Biden after dropping out, and still does?
It was 2020, just because Bernie did swing to Biden after super Tuesday made the writing on the wall clear and Bernie was vehemently against Trump winning again.
Lol
Moderate democrats were splitting the vote, and when all of them dropped out, the vote consolidated to a moderate candidate.
Are you basically arguing that, despite (unfortunately) not appealing to the average democratic voter, it’s somehow wrong that he didn’t win in favor of a politician who does?
Well, by the same token, Warren did not drop out. And, many of her supporters may have supported Bernie. So, kind of contingent on who is in the race at any given point. Until we have ranked choice primaries, it will be easy to end up with a candidate that does not have popular support winning.
Sure, but Biden got more than 50% of the vote, meaning even if all of her voters had flipped to sanders, Biden still wins.
We’re to assume you were on that call?
The media reported on this.
They did, and you’re right. A cursory search corroborates the notion. Whether we have transcripts of a call is just bloviating questions from a snarky shithead troll.
So…. The “media” was on the call? There should be a transcript somewhere. Care to share it?
If you’re interested in the details, go ahead and look it up.
Should be easy for yo to provide. And this is a good place for it. Please, show your receipts.
Bernie Sanders forgives nobody because it’s nobody’s fault except rich oligarchs who made sure media didn’t cover him as much as others so pitiable non-voting, progressive, or moderate working class didn’t know who was also great. Because Hilary would’ve been one of the best politicians on record to be President of the USA despite 20 years of smear campaigns effecting even the most progressive of us despite how much they’d like to think they weren’t.
In the end a large swath of our population is at the whimsy of media at no small fault to republicans destroying public schools and oligarchs making even Lemmings think Democrats are a monolith that doesn’t INCLUDE THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY.
Bernie Sanders firmly endorsed Biden in 2020 after dropping out. Never bothered running now. And endorsed Hilary in 2016 just like she would’ve done for him.
Waitt a second wasn’t it BLM that went after Sanders in the first place? Because he hadn’t done enough for black people?
And he let them speak while he stepped to the side.
No you’re missing the point, I just thought it was ironic that the woman has BLM in her bio
That “woman” is a famous drag queen. Bob the Drag Queen
Bernie could have won the nomination if he spent his career being friendly with the DNC like Biden and Hillary did instead of taking every opportunity to denigrate them
Then he’d be Biden 2.0 and what’s the fucking point?
Funny how this has happened to two Vermont politicians since the year 2000.
YEEEAH!!!
I thought that was a dumb thing for the media to latch on to at the time, but now I know why they forced the “controversy” anyways.
Just looking at all his policy stances in 2004 makes me so sad… Instead we got another term of Bush.
Bernie would of won against trump
Have*
Have course
Bernie have of won against trump
He couldn’t even win against Hillary so I kind of doubt it.
I’m not so sure about this argument, he couldn’t beat Hilary plus the dnc and all that money, if he had though, it would have been Bernie and the dnc and all that money against trump, that’s a different fight.
I agree that in a hypothetical Sanders vs Trump in 2016 Bernie would’ve won.
Seeing what the MAGA cult has become, I’m curious if he would today.
He did win against her. Until the Superdeligates swung the election in favor of where their money and the DNC wanted. I completely hold the DNC torpedoing themselves as the reason for Trump in '16.
He did win against her. Until the Superdeligates swung the election in favor of where their money and the DNC wanted.
Holy shit, the delusion gets greater with every passing day.
Clinton crushed him, by like 12 percentage points. Millions of votes. Absolutely trounced, and it was clear from the start he was going to lose. You take the superdelegates out, Clinton still wins. You give all of the superdelegates from the districts that Sanders won, Clinton still crushes him. Superdelegates played near zero role in Sanders getting smashed by Clinton, unless you really want to stretch and say their pledging made people vote for her. . .but 12 percentage points of people? Nah. You gotta be crazy to believe that.
I think a lot of young people like myself just wanted him and have felt neglected and disconnected since then. So that’s probably adding to it. But damn I’d still vote for Bernie in a heartbeat today.
Ftr, I voted for him in both 2016 and 2020 and I would vote for him today as well. I just recognize that I’m much further left than the average Democrat, and that this whole “Bernie was robbed!” is as rooted in reality as “Trump was robbed!”
Maybe, maybe not but the fact remains he didn’t make whatever deals needed to be made to secure the nomination he was seeking from the party he was seeking it from.
Your analysis of the DNC isn’t incorrect though.
lol tell me this has a real source.
The source is actually a photo of a young Bill Gates in the 80s
There’s no “we” about it. The Democratic party no longer represents the people or unions. It represents corporate interests. Repubs do, too, but it’s incorrect to think the Dems still care about the average working person.
Lol.
Man’s name was on the ticket.
People didn’t fucking vote for him.
Nobody stopped them. Nobody.
People didn’t want Bernie Sanders. I did. I voted for him twice. But I’m so fucking sick of this goofy-assed narrative that absolves the public of their civic fucking responsibility.
Nobody stole our vote. Nobody. His name was on the ticket. People didn’t vote for him.
100% this. I supported him, donated lots to his campaign, and the people just didn’t turn out to vote. The left are notorious for this. Every four years, they become online-only activists and yell at everyone to either not vote- or to throw away a vote via third-party.
And then, they vanish without a trace only to resurface later on as victims of their own decisions. And what’s funny about the whole thing is that they complain so much about “status quo,” but fail to realize they’re as status quo as it gets.
Mah boi about to get down voted to hell for speaking facts
Yeah, but Clinton got some debate questions beforehand and private chatter clearly showed that the brass preferred her. This is literally unforgiveable because, just like braindead Trump supporters, I fell for the “it was rigged” despite the complete lack of evidence. And even worse in this case because Clinton crushed him!
An improper relationship and something certainly to be suspicious about. But you aren’t pointing to anything that did actually sway or control the election.
I’m a proof is in the pudding guy, and it’s time to drop the whole narrative.
LMAO. This dude thinks that because someone won a popular vote that that means they won fair and square.
The linked article lists Clinton beating Sanders by 3 million as a reason why she OBVIOUSLY won… when she also won the presidential popular vote by 3 million and we all know how that turned out.
The vote tally is the final step in the process. The impropriety happened earlier.
I literally just posted an analysis of the primary, that goes far deeper than winning the popular vote…and you’re saying I think it’s just the popular vote?
Silly me, I thought that the investigation of interim DNC chair Donna Brazile that showed that Clinton had undue influence over the DNC over a year before the primary, a superdelegate system that heavily favored Clinton, and the fact that the AP called the race the night before 6 states voted was pretty good evidence. I see that this single academic paper and the fact that no one wrote about email with the subject line, “Best way to rig the primaries for Clinton,” proves otherwise.
You cherry pick some facts, make vague claims to stuff, and don’t quantify at all how much they influenced the primary.
You’re the equivalent of the trump supporters who cry “but they moved some boxes under a table!” You have nothing but suspicion, and actual analysis of whether or not there is evidence of any kind of rigging revealed nothing, in both cases.
The facts suck when they don’t support what you want to be the truth, but it’s time to wake up and accept it.
I don’t know what to tell you dude; I don’t know what would have happened in an alternate timeline where Clinton didn’t take over the DNC’s finances before the election. I don’t have a time machine.
I can tell you that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that the primary was rigged, prominent Democrats like Harry Reid admitted it was an unfair primary, and when the DNC was sued by Sanders donors for fraud, they chose to argue that not that the primary was fair, but that the DNC was under no legal obligation to run a fair primary. I can also tell you that comparing real evidence of the DNC colluding with the Clinton campaign to win her the nomination (for which Debbie Wasserman Schultz was forced to resign) isn’t the same as Trump supporters wild fantasies about ballot stuffing, and anyone who would draw a false equivalence between the two is either arguing in bad faith or ignorant of the basic facts surrounding the 2016 primary.
I’m from Kentucky. His name was never on any ballot I had access to. Would have voted for him if I ever actually had the opportunity to do so.
Nobody stole our vote. Nobody.
DNC machinations were pretty one sided for Bernie. Mainstream dems were telling me “he’s not a real democrat so why should we vote for him”
If you think having your name on the ballot is the end of a campaign, you are sorely mistaken.
Name recognition isn’t something that happens from ‘doing politics well’. It comes from donors who pay to put your name in front of people. That didn’t happen with Bernie, and that’s still the Democratic party’s fault. They pushed for Hillary HARD, and ruined Bernie’s chance in the meantime. You can’t blame the public when they were told that Hillary is the presumptive nominee and they should ‘fall in line’.
