Trump in 2016:
She shouldn’t be allowed to run.
If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
In that situation we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
It would grind the government to a halt.
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/donald-trump-trial-guilty-hillary-clinton-b2556563.html
Omg who cares. He lies and says literally opposite things from previous things every single day. It makes no difference. He’s a shit human and no one is going to see this one example and think. “hmm maybe has had him pegged wrong…” just vote in nov please.
I can understand the fatigue, but the alternative is silence and resignation. Someone has to be the sane voice that points out these things. Someone has to display consistent morals, or else society rots completely. You might not see a result immediately, but it’s not in vain.
Nah, I’m voting next week to ensure the Dutch left keeps a voice in the EU parliament.
Hopefully his clips saying this end up in some anti maga video ads.
jUsT dEePfAkEs
deleted by creator
… Not sure that last part is a historical reference or specifically a Crusader Kings reference.
Or Labyrinth reference
We’ve always been at war with Eureast AsiaTrump never said that.“see she actually did it tho! Me I’m not actually guilty the jury was rigged against me!”
As if the shit he said about anyone else wasn’t politically motivated.
At this point I’m pretty sure his fan base just has their dicks hard for old orange man because of appearance.
Moon Landing Denier
In fairness to the Moon Landing Deniers, The Shinning is even more fun to watch when you’re convinced its a secret Stanley Kubrick confession.
“gotta write a bad ending… Bad ending hmmm. FROZE TO DEATH ok this is gold”
It’s iconic for a reason
Different question. How is it that in the USA it is legal to run for president when you are a convicted felon? I mean you obviously do not qualify for the job.
I think the reasoning is that otherwise opponents can block political candidates by using the justice system. The opposite of what’s happening now.
The founding fathers haven’t theorized that this particular situation could happen.
The founding fathers haven’t theorized that this particular situation could happen.
Which you can’t even blame them for, honestly. Who in the 18th century would have thought a huge chunk of the country would want a known despot?
Who in the 18th century would have thought a huge chunk of the country would want a known despot?
Well there is the French 16 th century thinker Etienne de la Boétie who wrote a discourse on voluntary servitude in which he argued that men do tend to simp for tyrants over being free a lot of the time:
The essay argues that any tyrant remains in power while his subjects grant him that, therefore delegitimizing every form of power. The original freedom of men would be indeed abandoned by society which, once corrupted by the habit, would have preferred the servitude of the courtier to the freedom of the free man, who refuses to be submissive and to obey.
Spinoza asked “why do people fight for their servitude as if it were their salvation?”
Fear, and superstition; ideology. Under certain circumstances, the masses want fascism.
When the left buys in to the game of fear, hatred, passivity, and superstition - a game turbocharged by social media - we become complicit.
"Instead of politics, we engage in chatter. And it is a sad chatter, whose prevailing form is denunciation. The practice of denunciation debases the multitude. In the place of action, it accepts hatred, which merely externalizes the sadness of passivity; in the place of agency, it accepts fear, and pleads for security; in place of the collective democratic subject, it accepts the superstitious mob.
Superstitious mobs can only serve tyrants, as Spinoza knew well. We now face a new theocracy of our own making, one which through the chatter of social media decomposes our powers and makes politics impossible."
Thanks. I love me some Spinoza. I just wished they put a citation as to where to find this quote.
The Spinoza quote? As far as I understand it, it could actually be Deleuze paraphrasing Spinoza, perhaps Tractatus Theologico-Politicus, or maybe better said as “Deleuze’ translation of Spinoza.”
I see, thanks!
Very interesting thank you!
That’s silly, if you’re powerful enough to do that, you can just imprison them. No one probably thought about this, that’s all
It’s not that silly if law enforcement officials and judges are elected, like how they are in the American system. Ideally the court/justice system is entirely loose from politics.
Also don’t forget that the founding fathers did all partake in sedition, many of them not really having a clear slate whatsoever.
But yeah this particular instance hasn’t crossed their minds at all.
Campaign donators need some sign that you will bend to their demands, and so having a decent felony record is a good indication that you will play ball.
Afaik the idea is that you want to avoid someone to be able to convict their opponents. So make it impossible to take them out using the legal system. Makes total sense to me.
We have less qualifications to run for president than we do for working at McDonald’s. Per the constitution you need to be born in the USA, be 35 by the day you are sworn in, and have lived in the USA for the last 14 years.
But as others have said, the felony thing prevents weaponizing the justice system against political opponents.
Same reason felons can vote; if being a criminal removes your ability to participate in the political process then the government suddenly has a very strong incentive to criminalize their political opponents.
Felons mostly can’t vote, though.
TBF, if trump gets elected again, then the SC is going to legitimize political assassination, so being able to run from prison becomes a moot point.
His good buddy, Viktor Orbán, said that “any prime minister, who makes the Euro go over HUF300 should resign” not only made the Euro go over 300 in the first few months, but nowadays we often hit the 400 mark, basically nullifying most of the wage increase we got, many of which was in the form of “presence bonuses”, meaning you get an extra paycheck if you don’t go to day offs unless the factory is shut down, and don’t use any sick leaves or go to the doctor - imagine what it did during the pandemic.
Add his opinion on media monopoly to the mix back when he was in opposition, sprinkle it with some claims of dancing to the Russians’ tune, and decorate it with a pinch of concerns about how a government increasing divide and tensions can only expect to be washed away by the same radicalised masses.
Suddenly the supporters become politically sensitive and open to nuances and grab every opportunity to highlight the difference in cultural and political context (of him back then and now). Bring up literally anything else and the only thing they can regurgitate is the exact words of their dumbed down propaganda.
Maybe a video of the quotes in context without the rando’s commentary would be swell too.
When I see comments talking about how pointless it is to continue pointing out his hypocritical actions I immediately write that person off as a bot.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
What I’m struggling with is to find evidence from past events which would lead you to believe his voters are going to be changed by showing them any of this. You’ve got the folks who do not care because they are Trump cultists, then you have the folks who would vote for Satan himself if he had R next to his name.
Everyone else is already not going to vote for him.
So what change do we think showing this to his supporters is going to effect?
I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.
At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.
Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?
The mental exercise is… what would Biden have to do to get you to vote for the Republican Party? Or even to get you to just not vote at all? I know it’s a false equivalency, but it gives you some sense of the lines we all draw in the sand, and the “activation energy” that it takes to change our minds.
He could be as overtly criminal as Donald, taking money from Russia and the Saudis in exchange for top secret documents and lists of CIA agents, and I’d still be voting as long as he doesn’t also do an insurrection. FPTP and having all Repubs back a criminal as their preferred leader has really backed me into a corner.
IDK that the mental exercise is helpful in 2024. If the point is to say that they feel the same about Biden, that’s because they have been brainwashed by far-right propaganda. The activation energy it takes to sway them is cult deprogramming.
Overtly criminal or overtly fascist?
I could back a criminal if I found the reason to be morally sound. Let’s not forget that some crimes, morally speaking, were the right thing to do (think hiding jews during the holocaust as an extreme example, and maybe possession of certain drugs as an example of something morally ambiguous that wouldn’t keep me from voting for a good candidate)
Using campaign money to pay hush money? That’s just in line with the shit Donny already does; it’s dishonest as all hell and definitely not morally sound. He’s also clearly a fascist.
Actively supporting a genocide with billions of USD in goods seems like a great reason to not vote for Biden anymore
okay, that’s the first half… so since you’re going to not vote because of gaza, it stands to reason that it’s possible that someone would choose not to vote for Trump if he said he wasn’t going to let Israel ethnically-cleanse gaza. It’s all about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. Thanks for participating!
I’m not even a US citizen but ok
ah. So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.” I guess the question for you is, what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president and why aren’t you doing it?
So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.”
For me yeah. I’m just saying I sympathise with all those who think Biden crossed their “activation energy” line by supporting Israel’s genocide for this long.
what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president
A good track record. I’d want to vote for Bernie if I could, after hearing the fire in his voice and knowing he means it.
Regarding your edit (i. e., what would it take for Trump followers to change their mind), go hit YouTube with a search for “Jordan Klepper fingers the pulse” and watch some of those. A more recent one, in which he speaks to Niki Haley supporters, demonstrates what are likely “more reasonable” Republicans regarding Trump, and probably best answers your question. Most feature him speaking to Trump supporters at Trump rallies. One features him talking to supporters during (yes, you read that correctly) the January 6 insurrection. Watching these will help understand the entrenched mindset. Hilarious and horrifying.
Is there anything they wouldn’t accept
Find them and ask them.
Discussing on forums like these is all find and good, but in the end it’s lots of Preaching To The Choir. What people need to do is find a Red Hatter and ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
Outreach will win the day.
Find them and ask them.
You have apparently had much more productive conversations with trumpers than I ever have.
ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
And, it’s not hard to predict their answers.
- Treat trans people like monsters and pedophiles, and legislate as such.
- Knock gays back to the 80s or earlier via legislation
- The rest of the queer community needs to STFU and pretend they don’t exist.
- Cancel all DEI programs and make them illegal
- Make Pride month celebrations illegal at all businesses or public areas
- Follow the DeSantis model of history teaching, by trying to claim slavery was a benefit to slaves, or that Harriet Tubman was just having a bad day and sat at the wrong end of the bus, etc
- Support police without question - as long as it’s the blacks, gays, antifa, and left-leaning protesters they are beating up on
- Eliminate birth control and abortions nationally
- Put back all those civil war memorials because muh heritage
- Restrict college and high school curricula to Republican-approved materials on a national level
- Cease all climate-change measures or spending
- Acknowledge there is no solution to gun violence that involves restricting the activities of gun owners.
That’s pretty close to the list for anyone who is flying a Trump flag. And if it’s not on their list, it’s still not a dealkiller.
Outreach will win the day.
You’d need to put me in kevlar and pay me a lot to go knocking on maga doors all day.
I love “Harriet Tubman on a bus,” that’s exactly what they would teach in a DeSantized history class.
LOL while you are correct, I’m ashamed to say that was a mistake on my part, I just typed the wrong name.
I was referring to their attempt to whitewash what happened with Rosa Parks.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/22/us/florida-textbook-race-rosa-parks-reaj/index.html
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/
Also, just for completeness, this was a specific reference too: 🙂
Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.
Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.
I’m Canadian, but I can still tell you why Democrats are more likely to turn against their own politicians.
People who vote Democrat tend to be more educated, and academics tend to lean left. The left-leaning academics are far more left leaning than the Democratic party and are aware that, while the Democrats are the lesser of two evils, they still stand to uphold the status quo for the ruling class, whereas the Republicans have devolved into explicit fascism.
Because the Republicans have fallen into fascism, the people who vote Republican are either undereducated and fall for the propaganda or they’re part of the ruling class and want more money.
I hadn’t really thought about the link to education much. I kind of figured that democrats just have more… deal breakers than republicans, mostly due to empathy (which… I don’t think it’s linked to education?). If you don’t like hurting people, if you care about other people (and not just the ones you know), then there will obviously be a lot of things you won’t accept.
But caring about the truth and reality and science is important, so I guess you do have a point.
“Nononono, not like that” - republiKKKlowns
Hey everyone, we’ve finally done it, we’ve found the one quote that will make trumpets see reason!
As a right-winger who doesn’t support Trump, nothing liberals can do will make the Trumpets see “reason.” They aren’t voting for Trump because of “reasons.” They’re voting for him because he causes liberals to have a meltdown and drives y’all crazy, and they absolutely fucking hate you and want to watch you stress out and get aggravated. The only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump is by reacting to him like sane people, which y’all are incapable of.
The only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump is by reacting to him like sane people, which y’all are incapable of
So what’s the sane way to react to him directly contradicting himself and lying about things we have video evidence of?
Clearly, it’s too call everyone who is voting for him a fascist, declare that democracy has fallen, and throw a temper tantrum in the middle of the street. Honestly, there’s probably nothing that can be done at this point. After 8 years of histrionics over Trump – four of which he wasn’t even in office – it would be almost impossible to change the right’s perception of the left as arrogant, elitist, hypocritical crybullies.
So to be clear: You come here telling the “lib left” they need to behave more rationally, and when asked what that would look like you respond with sarcasm, insults, and don’t actually answer the question.
I don’t think you’re exactly role modeling “reacting like a sane person” here.
The question was glib nonsense. It’s not about how one reacts to any individual thing Trump does, especially not when that thing is itself a reaction to the larger context of the liberal/left reaction to Trump’s mere existence.
So your original statement was glib nonsense then?
I took your original post at face value, asked an honest follow up of “what would that look like?” And you got offended by that.
You just came here to be a reactionary.
“Laws matter and words mean things”
“Oh here we go again with the arrogant elitist hypocrites!”
Shut the fuck up
What a powerful argument. Not at all the reaction of an arrogant, elitist, hypocritical crybully.
Clearly, it’s too call everyone who is voting for him a fascist, declare that democracy has fallen, and throw a temper tantrum in the middle of the street
So the things MAGA have been doing for the past 8 years?
Do you really think that’s a fair assessment of what “MAGA” have been doing for the past 8 years? Maybe the last 4 years, but they were hardly saying such things when their boy was in office.
Actually, I don’t care. What I really want to know is what your point is? “They do it, so it’s okay if we do it?” They are, for the most part, a bunch of reactionaries. Trump’s base is largely uneducated, lower-middle-class white Christians who don’t understand why liberals are radically deconstructing Western civilization around their ears and are terrified of the Brave New World liberals are ushering in. They are reacting out of fear, panic, and resentment towards a cultural elite that considers them ignorant rabble that needs to be told to shut the fuck up, rather than educated – and often it appears that the cultural elite doesn’t want to explain itself because whenever it tries, it’s so obviously intellectually bankrupt that even the uneducated rabble can see right through it.
Shouldn’t you be better than that? Isn’t that your whole premise? That you’re smarter than them?
What I really want to know is what your point is?
That it’s always projection. “Accuse the Lib left of doing the things we are doing! Then we don’t have to defend ourselves!”
resentment towards a cultural elite that considers them ignorant rabble that needs to be told to shut the fuck up, rather than educated – and often it appears that the cultural elite doesn’t want to explain itself because whenever it tries, it’s so obviously intellectually bankrupt that even the uneducated rabble can see right through it.
As opposed to you who considers the “Lib left” ignorant rabble that needs to be told to shut the fuck up, and don’t bother to explain yourself because you’re so obviously intellectually bankrupt that even the uneducated rabble can see right through it.
Shouldn’t you be better than that? Isn’t that your whole premise?
That’s some a-grade bullshit. Expecting an obvious criminal to face some justice and maybe not be put in charge again… that’s reactionary?
“hurr durr I don’t support trump but he didn’t do nothing wrong!”
Get bent you goon.
Expecting an obvious criminal to face some justice and maybe not be put in charge again… that’s reactionary?
Please learn to read before insulting people. I said the “only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump…” Obviously, I was calling right-wingers who support Trump reactionary. You call me a goon, but you’re illiterate. So really, maybe you shouldn’t be insulting people.
Dude, you came barrelling into this comment section already angry and ready for a fight.
What’s your point? That I came here willing to argue with you caused lingh0e to fail a basic reading comprehension check?
You people engage in insults and tone-policing because you’re mindless NPCs whose politics is based entirely on group identification and you’re not actually capable of making real arguments. None of you can actually dig down into your belief system and justify it from first principles, nor do any of you have any real grasp of the intellectual underpinnings of your beliefs, nor are you cognizant of the history that has brought us to this point. You’re just screeching monkeys, flinging shit at things because you’re emotionally agitated. None of you actually thinks. That’s why lingh0e reacted with rage to a comment they didn’t even parse correctly, and it’s why you think I came here “angry” (you’re projecting your own emotions onto me).
Dude, come on. You were criticizing the – in your mind monolithic – left of getting angry too easily when you waltzed in here already pissed, hoping to make some “libtards” angry and prove your point. But you were the one that came in here pissed. You really owned the libs with that one bud.
There is no reason to have a real discussion with you because you never came in here for a discussion. That was never your intention and that is very clear.
You people engage in insults and tone-policing because… (Immediately resumes their insults and tone policing from other posts)
It’s always projection.
Thank you for proving my point.
Of course, repubs are only fascists to own the libs! It makes so much sense!
Yes, basically. If you insist on calling every right-wing reaction “fascism,” then yes, people broadly support “fascism” because they hate liberal progressives. Every single country where fascism has ever arisen, it did so in response to leftist agitation.
trumpisn is fascism you dimwit
“Trumpism” isn’t even a thing. You give Donald Trump far too much intellectual credit.
Whatever you need to keep justifying your shitty beliefs there bud
“I don’t support Trump now enjoy as I spend multiple hours of my day explaining how he’s the GOAT”
“I’m so stupid I think I can win an argument by making up quotes. I literally have no idea what a strawman argument is.” - Facebones
My beliefs are entirely irrelevant.
What is relevant is that those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.
Jesus fuck, stop playing this “gotcha!” game. This is dumb. He doesn’t give a shit about consistency. He’ll straight up lie about something he said yesterday. Who are you convincing with this?
me. i’m convinced. i was gonna vote for trump first, but this has persuaded me to vote for biden
s
The Right Wingers play “Gotcha!”, playing it right back does nothing.
First of all, there are people who think it is funny, like me.
Additionally, sometimes people just aren’t aware of stuff and people draw different lines. Apparently trump support has decreased since the verdict of his 34 felonies. That wasn’t my line for sure; the racism and history of racism was; but apparently some people didn’t care about the racism, transphobia, sexism, the sexualizing of his daughter, the cheating on his wife, the lies, … But about the felonies. So instead of telling people to not speak out about it, don’t engage.
Oh how the turn tables.
I wonder if he’ll still run
The only way he’s not running is if the RNC rejects him. And that isn’t looking likely. No way he will concede on his own
But his trial was political /s
Watching the video clip I caught myself pining for the days when Trump rants were at least coherent enough to resemble human speech.
Like, of course everything he said is an easily disproven lie – some things never change – but at least the words came together to form sentences. I’m extra not looking forward to the daily news cycle in the coming months.
Just drive people to the polls. Help as much that you can to get the republicans out of office. It doesn’t have to be calling and bothering people, can be a lot of little things.
There I nothing he does that he hasn’t contradicted himself on or won’t in the future. Literally nothing. When you constantly cancel yourself out we have a name for that - zero.
