Tldr: Remote desktop, Cortana, camera, people app are all getting uninstall buttons.
The more steam deck and proton get games working on linux, the less need I have for this bloated windows.
I’m all for less bloat ware, but come one. The camera app or remote desktop are the least shitty ones. Its borderline to call them even bloatware.
To be clear, they seem to be saying that those apps will still be preinstalled. They’ll just be easier to uninstall if you want to do so.
"option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client. "
I thought they dropped support for Cortana. Is she back (maybe as “The Weapon”)?
Yeah, having the option is not a bad thing. Nothing changes for those who use the apps or want them there, but it lets people remove them if that’s what they want.
My issue is the Solitaire and games. We have Win11 for Business (Switching to Enterprise soon) and I have to run a powershell script during Intune/oobe to rip out all the bloat.
But Windows always came with Solitaire - even 30+ years ago. It was included originally to teach users how to use a mouse. Solitaire makes you click, double click and drag.
Removing Solitaire caused its own backlash. They can’t win with that one.
my work is transitioning to it soon, I’ll have to find similar scrips soonish.
I have an amazing resource for this kinda stuff. As soon as I an remember it and find it I’ll drops comment here.
would appreciate it, thanks!!
Here you go if you aren’t using PSAppDeploy to deploy software in your Org you’re doing it wrong ;).
They’ve got Remediation scripts and PSAppDeploy scripts for a LOT of applications
PSAppDeploy: https://github.com/PSAppDeployToolkit/PSAppDeployToolkit
Scripts: https://silentinstallhq.com/detection-scripts/
PSAppDeploy works great within both SCCM and Intune App Deployment
thanks!
Windows 11 ships with a shitty featureless version of the remote desktop client. You have to download the “real” or “full” version from the Windows app store.
I found this out incidentally a few weeks ago and it is annoying having the app you need and some random imposter app with the same name clogging up search / start menu.
Have they fixed the store version so it can do multiple monitors yet? Also local folder redirects?
No clue sorry, that’s not functionality that I use.
I mean I’ve never used either of those apps and my computer doesn’t even have a camera.
Sounds like textbook bloatware to me… 🤷♀️
“if I don’t use it, it’s useless”
Bloatware doesn’t necessarily mean it’s useless, but if even a reasonable percent of people don’t want or need it or shouldn’t be preinstalled. That’s bloatware.
For bloatware to be a meaningful term, I think it needs to go beyond just some arbitrary percent of users don’t need or use it. For an OS, having baseline apps which are useful across a wide variety of hardware setups and use cases is reasonable, even if they don’t apply in your particular situation. Bloat would be superfluous apps that replicate baseline features or baseline apps that have grown in scope beyond what’s strictly necessary.
Remote desktop and camera apps are pretty primary pieces of functionality, whether or not you use or need them. Windows is bloated garbage in general but those apps are not really a part of that imo… I don’t know if there’s really a precise definition of bloatware but I sort of think of it mostly as something that takes up your system resources rather than just hard drive space. Something that runs all or most of the time even though it doesn’t actually provide much value
It’s bloat because a lot of people will never make use of it, so it’s taking up more space (bloating it) for no appreciable gain. It should be easy to install if you do want to make use of it, but not literally every piece of software should be installed just because some people will use it.
It coming pre-installed is also harmful to third parties. Many will just choose the MS version because it’s already there, rather than potentially find another group who’s made similar (maybe even better) software for the same purpose.
By that definition
grepandawkare bloat on Linux.At least I can uninstall either of those programs with a single command
i’d wager those tools are “indirectly used” by other used software … that should also be included into the definition.
one mans bloat is another mans treasure
Agreement. But they are not removing them so much as adding the option to uninstall them right? So functionally it’s thereof needed still.
RDC could be a good option to uninstall for businesses where the machine acts as a terminal and you don’t want those devices launching RDC to begin with Not sure why it hasn’t been allowed already.
Every company I’ve worked for so far had me use RDC at some point, either to connect to a server or to an app.
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Let’s cut the crap: it’s not that they “realized” nobody wants it – it’s that they’ve come to accept the blowback against their reputation has gotten too big to outweigh the potential pros of preinstalled bloatware supporting their strategy.
Do you think titles like that are a result of a severely myopic mind, unable to even comprehend why a corporation would willingly do something that their users dislike, or just clickbait?
I think it’s a soft heading - they could be more honest and blunt, but a history of reporting like that may jeopardize any relationship they might have with Microsoft - with regards to press releases or advertising money and stuff like that.
I don’t find it plausible that the people at pcmag, who’s reported in this domain for a long time, can’t see past such light corporate fuckery.
The title suggests that Microsoft has come to a conclusion that nobody wants their inbox apps, which is not the case according to the contents of the article. This title would have been true if Microsoft had come with a statement saying that “according to user feedback blabla we have decided to add the uninstall option”. The reason might as well have been technical but this is yet to be disclosed. The term bloatware can also be seen as subjective as we normally define software that we personally don’t have any usage of as bloat, the fact that nobody will uses it is highly unlikely. So I would say that the title of this article is misleading and quite opinionated, most likely because the author is upset about the bloat in the Windows OS he is experiencing.
Snarky anthropomorphization primarily serving clickbait and liability-limiting, I think, pretty clearly.
Really, the headline could just be “Microsoft To Allow Removing Preinstalled Apps”, or “Bloatware Apps will be Removable After Windows 11 Update”, or something like that. But the way they worded it lets them both sound more sarcastic to people who are pissed off by the scummy practice, and at the same time also sound plausibly less direct in calling Microsoft out.
come to accept
nah, they are just gonna install it with an update later
I mean, every OS out there beyond (maybe?) some hardcore Linux distros preinstalls this stuff though. Some (but not all) will let you remove it. None really make it “easy” or give you choices during install.
I think it’s just easier to treat all apps the same than special casing some and then having to install other hacks to get around the first ones for managed systems. It’s cheaper to treat them all the same.
All Linux distros give you the choice of installing and uninstalling whatever you want.
Yeah, but when you boot a linux machine the cpu goes down to 0% load after you log in and stays there. Microsofts bloat runs in the background constantly. A windows laptop turns the fan on randomly when the lid was closed for a fucking day.
They always knew, they just didn’t care.
Realized?? They knew all the time, and didn’t give a shit.
It’s more likely that they have pushed too far, and users are pushing back. They will dial it back a bit, and hope people forget.
That, and stop dumbing down the UI. Gradeschoolers in 1999 could operate windows, it doesn’t need to get dumber
Gradeschoolers, yes.
Boomers are still struggling even with the modern, simplified UI. They would likely continue to struggle if we had Idiocracy style UI on things (big, bright colored buttons with pictures of what they do).
Boomers struggle period, its hard being stupid
I’m amazed they can sort of navigate an iphone
I think they mostly just tap around until they get where they need to go, something in between a parrot and a monkey with a typewriter.
Gradeschoolers, yes.
Not so much anymore. Gradescoolers all grew up on iPads and are probably worse off than boomers.
Er, it’s not the boomers who are struggling. They’re barely even in the workforce anymore.
https://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/grow-google-2019/smartphone-generation-computer-help/3127/
I know it’s fun to rag our boomer parents and grandparents but it was boomers who designed the older, “complex” UI for usage by other boomers. Since boomers are now dropping out of the workforce (25% of it right now) it seems likely that the UI is being dumbed down for the much larger Gen-X/Millennial/Gen Z workforce.
Yeah, there’s now a lot of people who have actually never used a desktop OS, and the only OS they’ve used being a phone or tablet. Those people are more having an influence on dumbing down the OS now. It’s pretty crazy how compute illiterate newer generations have become due to shift in what is considered their primary OS. Some people don’t even have laptop or desktops.
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z
I see both kinds of Boomers. My dad, a boomer, is in the tech industry. He is a software engineer. My grandpa was also a software engineer. Everyone I know from his side of the family has been in tech.
And then there is every boomer I know that isn’t my own family and they are practically luddites. I know the former can exist. But it seems rare.
Apparently a large portion of the population, regardless of generation, proudly announces their tech illiteracy. I’m IT, and these people don’t even remember their personal email passwords.
LoL, tell that to every fucking child and teenager who have been using an iPhone, iPad and MacOS for all their lives. It’s unbelievable how stupid you can get when you’re locked into a walled garden and the OS you’re using is designed for three year olds. I have a buddy who’s mainly a Mac and iPhone guy, and I fuck you not, he doesn’t know how to use anything else. He’ll just stare at the screen and simply don’t understand what to do.
Agreed. I have been working so hard to get my young kids to understand file systems, directory structures, keyboard shortcuts, etc; all that stuff that just never gets learned anymore with all the iOS/Android interactions.
I’m building a new PC for myself in the next few weeks and if they want to continue playing Genshin/Starcraft2/BeamNG/Trackmania on my older PC as it becomes the “Family PC” they will need to sit with me and learn how to reassemble it, install Windows, attaching peripherals, and setup a few basic things.
That’s the price and that’s the reward.
Many of us grew up in a world where you had to figure this shit out or simply not have a working computer/piece of software.
1999 gradeschoolers not today’s Gradeschoolers with win98
They’ve always realized, they’ve just never cared.
They did care, they just cared about the money instead.
Yeah what a weird title, they know exactly what they are doing.
Using Windows primarily for gaming, I eventually got tired of some of the issues I had with it (ads appearing in the start menu). I gave Linux a try and it was so so for a while. I kept going back and forth but it’s been 2 years now and I haven’t had Windows installed and can play 90% of my games without issue. I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone. But for those that primarily use their computer for gaming and non-windows specific applications (like web browsing or other various things), Linux is offering some competition for desktop people.
linux seems to work pretty well until it doesnt and then it really doesnt work. seems that there’s still some hardware incompatibility issues
That’s why I stopped using it at home (apart from stuff like like NAS, routers, etc).
This was a few years ago so perhaps it’s been addressed now. I installed Ubuntu and downloaded Steam to install. It wouldn’t. I can’t remember exactly why but I had to find answers online and quickly gave up.
I turned that laptop on over a year later and Ubuntu was out of date and needed upgrading. It couldn’t install the latest version because it needed to upgrade to versions in between, some of which have been moved to archive. I installed Windows 10 instead.
I’m responsible for a couple of Linux servers at work so I’m sure I could have addressed these issues at home, but I really couldn’t be bothered when I have better things to spend my time on. I just wanted a working Laptop that gets used occasionally.
What do you mean “needed upgrading”? There was some software that required newer dependencies?
Anyway, you might try rolling-release distro, they just can’t have “update to version in between” because all versions are same version.
I agree completely. I’ve been lucky enough to have only an issue where Steam keeps my computer from sleeping regardless of power save settings. I’ve had friends that have tried the same set up as me, and for some reason the computer fails to boot after a simple upgrade (apt upgrade). So I really do mean it when I wouldn’t recommend it. But if someones feeling adventurous it can be fun to try out and see if it works for you.
What games fall into the 10% that don’t play?
(Genuinely asking–I’ve been considering the switch.)
Some games use kernel-level anticheat. Unfortunately, because there is a kernel driver involved, it must be specifically ported to Linux, and some developers simply don’t want to bother.
examples: Valorant, Roblox, PUBG
I think they never heard about “never trust user input”
Roblox is actually playable on Linux fwiw, I play it with my kiddo all the time
It’s mostly going to be games that use anti-cheat software (though some work on Linux.)
So if you’re someone who likes to bounce around to the hot new competitive online multiplayer title then Linux probably wont serve your needs right now. If you can’t think of a single esports title you want to play, once you install Steam and Lutris you’ll probably find nearly everything you want to play works.
That’s awesome news for me then, I hate PVP. Mostly do RPG stuff and things like Crusader Kings III, Rimworld, Stellaris, etc.
Are you (or anyone else) aware of how things like No Man’s Sky might run, or the new Baldur’s Gate, or (if anyone can make a guess) Starfield?
I run No Man’s Sky on Nobara Linux, installed it on my old laptop that barely gets by on Windows. Really breathed new life into it and I haven’t had troubles.
Just installed it on steam after checking the box for proton compatibility. You might need to run a task kill command if it gets stuck in a DirectX install loop on launch but other than that it’s been smooth sailing for me.
I can say offhand that No Man’s Sky put a lot of extra time and effort into their Steam Deck support so that definitely works. Otherwise your best bet is to check either the Steam listing for a game (check the Deck Verified rating. Anything rated “playable” or “verified” should work pretty seemlesly on any Linux gamingPC) or https://www.protondb.com/ (a user run listing of the compatibility of different games. A good resource and often has some troubleshooting advice. Unfortunately it can often have outdated or just inaccurate information as it’s all based on user reports. Still usually a pretty good indication of compatibility.) There’s no indication on either regarding Starfield compatibility. Given that it’s probably too resource intensive for the Deck it may not get as much special attention from Valve as something like Elden Ring (which ran better on Linux than any other platform after it was out for a few days and Valve had added a patch to Proton to fix an issue that the developers took longer to patch in the game itself.) Chances are pretty good it’ll work though (assuming your hardware can run it.) The Steam page for Baldur’s Gate 3 says it’s Steam Deck Verified so it’ll just work so long as you launch it through Steam. Here’s the protondb page for reference https://www.protondb.com/app/1086940 . Crusader Kings III, Rimworld and Stellaris apparently all have native Linux ports so, while you may find reasons to prefer running the Windows versions with Proton, you don’t actually need to check for any special compatibility. They just are Linux games.
It really sounds like I’ve been sleeping on recent Linux compatibility then. I remember back in the days of Wine it seemed more a PITA than was worth it.
Thanks so much for the in-depth response!
Yeah Steam/Proton and other tools like Lutris make it so you don’t really even have to touch Wine for most stuff, it’s all taken care of for you. Gaming on Linux has come a long, long way in the last few years.
Well, Proton is a patched Wine. Nowdays many games support Linux natively.
Proton also includes DXVK.
BG 3 runs on the Steam deck, mostly without issues (except for those that aren’t Linux related, like text being hard to read due to the small display and lower frame rate due to the portable hardware).
Most of the Paradox games support Linux natively. I play Europa Universalis 4, Stellaris, Crusader Kings 2 (haven’t bought 3 yet but it has native support), Hearts of Iron 4. Victoria 2 doesn’t have native support and I didn’t get Vic 3 but it is supported. Rimworld is native, so is Factorio.
Have a look at what you want to play on protondb.com and figure out if gaming on Linux works for you. Baldur’s Gate 3 has a gold rating (gold being one level lower than platinum - the best rating for non-native games) which for all practical purposes should work.
EDIT: I recommend installing Proton Glorious Eggroll in addition to the native Proton on Steam if you can’t get a game running with the native Proton despite protondb reports saying the game works. The installation is fairly straightforward, just read and follow the installation instructions on the page.
Unless that “hot new competetive title” is CS2. CS2 runs on Linux natively.
Mostly games with anticheat or very new games. Everything else pretty much just works especially older games. I needed to visit pcgamingwiki all the time to get older games to work on windows but for linux I mostly just visit protondb and find out I don’t need to do anything or need to just put in launch command. System shock 1 was the only game I had to actually go through a process to get it running with audio.
I mean, System Shock is old enough that even on Windows you probably had to futz around with it to get it working, lol.
The biggest one I miss, and it works, but the anti-cheat keeps me from my favorite servers is anything from the Red Orchestra series. I really enjoy their newer game Rising Storm 2 but the vast majority of the servers are protected with an anti-cheat that keeps me from joining. I’ve found a couple servers that don’t use the anti-cheat and I can play on those, but they’re not quite the same as some of the servers I have as favorites that are playable on Windows. Otherwise, most things generally work good, biggest problem is with launchers, and even those can be bypassed or fixed, but I’ve gotten to the point in my life where I just want things to work without having to remember what config files I’ve changed or futz with that may break in the future. The other games that I’ve had that don’t work may as well now, but honestly I’ve forgotten what they were. One that I don’t play, that I know a lot of people do is Destiny and I saw that they’ll ban you if you try on Linux. But I’ve only heard that as I haven’t played that on PC.
Games using Easy CheatEngine (or something like it)
EAC (Easy AntiCheat) works just fine on Linux as long as the developer enables it. There are very few anti-cheats that don’t work anymore. The ones that aren’t as big like Vanguard, which is Valorant’s anti-cheat, don’t work, but Battleye, EAC, and VAC works just fine.
beyond anti-cheat and “just came out” there’s one more category that often doesn’t work: not-new, obscure games.
Anything that isn’t pretty new and/or pretty popular may need to you run through some hoops to get running right.
If you like jumping from game to game a lot, I wouldn’t recommend Linux, but if you stick to a few and play them for a long time (and you don’t mind the extra work it is to learn a new OS) I think it would be worth making the switch.
Check out protondb.com for a pretty great resource in what games work/kind of work/don’t work on linux (with proton specifically, which is how most people play Windows games on Linux). It’s far more accurate than even Steam’s own “verification” system for Steam Deck.
It’s pretty amazing what they’ve done with it over the past few years.
The ads in Windows 11 are a dogshit feature, but you can turn them off in the settings.
Yea I’ve always found that complaint odd. I just assumed everyone who makes it also has the activate windows watermark, and thus can’t access the option.
I would but the only thing holding me back is the lack of HDR support in Linux. Windows 11 is currently the only desktop OS to implement it properly (10’s HDR is a joke), so I’m stuck with it
Great point. I still don’t have an HDR monitor but that could be nice. Plus, if everything’s working for you no need to switch it up! It’s great that Microsoft is adding the ability to remove some of the programs a lot of people don’t / wont use without having to copy and paste powershell commands. I remember there were some scripts / instructions on how to uninstall what would otherwise be uninstallable programs by opening a powershell as an administrator. I don’t have anything against Windows, I just got tired of having so many ads put into my start menu and ads in the weather widget they added to the task bar after I paid $100+ for the OS way back when. But I’m not sure how their handling the “price” of Windows now.
I don’t give a shit, I’ll use other programs to uninstall whatever I want.
Call me when I can use a vertical task bar. Until then, I’m sticking with win10.
This is all so foreign to me now. I’m not forced to keep anything on Linux.
How to tell if someone uses Linux? Don’t worry they will tell you.
I use Arch BTW. Sorry couldn’t help myself.
I dual boot steamos which I believe is built on arch lol but I don’t use Linux for much tbh I’m a carpet installer and I’m just into tech stuff as a hobby lol
Fuck, editing for proper formatting.
Literally no one cares
I care, that makes one!
I care because I use Arch BTW too
The Linux and FOSS circlejerk will never end. I’m saying this as someone that uses Linux.
let me know if you want to hang out and jerk off sometime
You know what, I don’t want it to end either. Its great entertainment, both the Linux circlejerkers constantly shoehorning Linux everywhere, and the responding circlejerkers making fun of them, as if the former doesn’t wear it like a badge of honor. Its circlejerking all the way down. A downwards-helix-jerking if you will.
I use Linux btw.
A vegan, Linux using crossfitter walks up to you. What do they tell you about first?
I use Arch btw?
How to tell if someone uses Windows? Don’t worry, they will loudly bitch about how it sucks then proceed to shit on Linux users.
(This isn’t you it’s just something I’m seeing a lot more often lately)
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Seems pretty appropriate in a thread complaining about an operating system.
Sometimes people aren’t looking for a solution and just want to grumble
It should tell people something that so many Linux users are happy enough with it to want to talk about it.
Computer OS veganism.
If meat eaters complained about meat as much as Windows users complained about Windows…
I don’t understand why A) Linux users can’t be excited to share something they are passionate about and B) Windows users aren’t interested in hearing about an alternative when Windows sucks so bad.
Unlike veganism though it is actually correct
What is “incorrect” about veganism?
Nothing actually, I was just making a stab at vegans because they get so much flak lol.
I actually think the choice to go vegan is awesome, really it’s the ones that just shit on others that rubs me the wrong way, a good bit of Linux users do this as well. Personally I would never use windows unless it was absolutely necessary (I am a DJ and Producer in my freetime and I had a “pooprietary” controller that only worked with traktor, but now Mixxx has support for it so we cool now)
Even then, whenever I did have to use windows for that specific use case, I had it on a dedicated machine running an extremely stripped down version of windows (ameliorated) and it wasn’t a machine that I connected to the internet.
That being said though, I seriously respect people’s freedoms and even if I have different ideas or opinions than someone else, I’m not going to tell them they’re wrong unless it could harm them or something like that.
That being said though, and this could just be me, I think going vegan would be more difficult than switching to Linux in today’s day and age. With Linux you just need to find alternatives and integrate them into your workflow (there’s layers to that of course). With veganism, you have to inspect every single product to make sure it doesn’t contain animal products (which also has layers to it).
Hell with Linux, you can even use WINE to use windows programs, veganism doesn’t have anything like that! You can’t just wrap a cheeseburger in lettuce and call it vegan!
It’s honestly pretty awesome, genuine vegans are really strong people, and although the radical ones had put a sour taste in my mouth at first, over the years as I learned the hardships of their way of life, they definitely have earned my respect!
Article on subject
Someone brings up something relevant to the subject
REEEEE
I mean it’s relevant to windows like taco bell is to McDonald’s.
Plenty of people here don’t use windows so I guess you don’t want diverse discussion on a niche site. Okay makes sense.
It’s the new iOS vs Android with everyone acting like tribal high schoolers weeee
Yeah, I was painfully reminded of that when Ubuntu helpfully uninstalled xwayland for me on an ‘apt upgrade’…
Not even systemd?
I just googled “Linux distro without systemd” and google gave me a list of 11 right off the bat without even having to click any links. So yeah, not even systemd.
You can just install another init system
I’m not forced to keep anything on Linux
KNoteshas entered the chat…Edit: apparently it’s not
KNotesproper - just the built-in KDE sticky notes applet that is bundled with the environment and is impossible to remove if you want to use KDE Plasma.I have KDE and I don’t even have KNotes on my laptop. What do you mean?
Updated my comment. Apparently it’s not
KNotesproper but a simpler version of the sticky note applet bundled with Plasma. I tried finding ways to remove it, but the consensus seems to be that you can only suppress its activation, not remove it completely.
it’s crazy to think that you can’t just uninstall some apps in the first place even though it would be technologically possible
a beta build of Windows 11 in the Canary Channel includes the option for the first time to uninstall the Camera app, Cortana app, Photos app, People app, and the Remote Desktop client.
Still no Microsoft edge though…
Is there a way to disable the ads, news and recommendations yet? Until then I’m not upgrading.
Tbf you can disable all of that so there is barely (if any) difference to win10 in regards to this.
Can you point me in the direction of how disable truly all of it? I don’t want news/ads/recommendations in the start button, bottom bar, icon tray, search results etc.
WinAeroTweaker will let you decide what junk you want to disable.
Disabling all of those are standard settings in Windows 10 and 11.
Most are just right click on the icon/taskbar, opening settings and finding the setting that disables it.
Not entirely. There are many, many hidden telemetry settings that normal users can’t access. It’s why stuff like WPD (windows privacy dashboard) exist. Windows doesn’t let you uninstall most of that stuff either.
Try this https://christitus.com/windows-tool/
It’s the integrated AI spying on you that is real concern
#everythingisainow
