John Morris says he was standing on a sidewalk opposite the U.S. consulate near the famed hotel around noon on Tuesday, waiting for some clouds to arrive to get the perfect shot…
He then goes on to say that officers told him that he can’t be standing there for a half hour, and was fined for loitering.
To be honest, if he was, by his own admittance, standing on a public sidewalk for 30 minutes with his gear, then he earned that loitering fine. This was also explained to him and it written on his ticket, so he’s contradicting himself by saying they never explained what law was broken.
Being a professional photographer doesn’t give someone the right to take ownership of the public space.
He could snap a photo and move on, but he decided to block a public sidewalk for as long as he wanted to get a shot… if they didn’t stop him after 30 minutes, he could have been there for hours. Who knows? Either way, he’s acting entitled.
To be honest, if he was, by his own admittance, standing on a public sidewalk for 30 minutes with his gear, then he earned that loitering fine.
According to this very article, with emphasis added,
Quebec City’s municipal bylaw says that is “prohibited for a person, without a reasonable motive … to loiter, wander or sleep in a street or a public space.”
[Criminal defence lawyer Florence Boucher Cossette] said Morris likely has a good shot at winning his case, as people accused of loitering when they were sunbathing or drinking coffee on a bench were acquitted in previous cases.
Those two examples are quite a bit different than “waiting for clouds” while blocking a sidewalk with camera gear for over a half hour.
Here’s how I personally look at bylaws and when they are appropriate: if 100 or 500 more people were doing what he did, would that acceptable?
I would hope most people see that blocking a public walkway for an inordinate amount of time without a reasonable motive (i.e. an eldery person catching their breath, or a mother trying her child’s showlace), would need loitering bylaws to be enforced for the benefit of everyone else.
To be honest, if he was, by his own admittance, standing on a public sidewalk for 30 minutes with his gear, then he earned that loitering fine.
When asked under what circumstances Quebec City police will arrest or fine someone for loitering, Dion said “it’s on a case-by-case basis,” and "it’s up to police officers’ discretion.
So he didn’t earn anything other than a cop randomly choosing that he was loitering. There is no written definition circumstances in which someone can be classified as loitering. There are tons of people who do the same, if not worse, and are not subjected to this undignified arrest and fine. If a different cop were to show up and have a different opinion, he’d have never gotten the fine. If you cannot concretely say that “This is what you have broken” and “This is why it is wrong” then there should not be a punishment for it.
This was also explained to him and it written on his ticket, so he’s contradicting himself by saying they never explained what law was broken.
He is not contradicting himself. The person who refused to say what bylaw was broken was a completely different person with a different name. I’d suggest reading the article in future so you don’t make such mistakes.
Being a professional photographer doesn’t give someone the right to take ownership of the public space.
He never claimed ownership of the public space.
if they didn’t stop him after 30 minutes, he could have been there for hours.
He said that the sun came out while he was in the cruiser and he missed the shot. So if anything, the police kept him at this place even longer.
Either way, he’s acting entitled.
For wanting to use a public space and expecting fair/impartial application of the rules? And clear rules to begin with? Lolno
Loitering is to stand idly without purpose. But he had a purpose: that to photograph an iconic hotel. With professional gear. He was on public property, committing no crime.
FYI, he wasn’t taking photos, he was standing idly and was blocking a public sidewalk with his equipment while he waited for a good shot. He claimed that he was out of the way, but that particular sidewalk doesn’t allow for any room to be “out of the way” because it has a street on one side and a wall on the other.
Granted, he had a massive tripod and a pro camera right outside the US consulate building for at least a half hour, which is why the police were called. He had been asked to move along, and he just argued, so he got a ticket.
A pro photographer, with intention to shoot commercial photography in a public place, might have applied for a permit first. Especially if the shoot required blocking public walkways for such a long time.
He can certainly challenge this in court, but to what end? He seemed to be clearly in the wrong.
What’s the matter ? You can’t read too many word ??
He is explaining his opinion dude. Relax. If this gets to court we will see what the outcome is. Both opinion are validm blocking the sidewalk is bad but I can see why someone would want to take time to take a good shot of chateau Frontenac.
He then goes on to say that officers told him that he can’t be standing there for a half hour, and was fined for loitering.
To be honest, if he was, by his own admittance, standing on a public sidewalk for 30 minutes with his gear, then he earned that loitering fine. This was also explained to him and it written on his ticket, so he’s contradicting himself by saying they never explained what law was broken.
Being a professional photographer doesn’t give someone the right to take ownership of the public space.
He could snap a photo and move on, but he decided to block a public sidewalk for as long as he wanted to get a shot… if they didn’t stop him after 30 minutes, he could have been there for hours. Who knows? Either way, he’s acting entitled.
According to this very article, with emphasis added,
Those two examples are quite a bit different than “waiting for clouds” while blocking a sidewalk with camera gear for over a half hour.
Here’s how I personally look at bylaws and when they are appropriate: if 100 or 500 more people were doing what he did, would that acceptable?
I would hope most people see that blocking a public walkway for an inordinate amount of time without a reasonable motive (i.e. an eldery person catching their breath, or a mother trying her child’s showlace), would need loitering bylaws to be enforced for the benefit of everyone else.
So he didn’t earn anything other than a cop randomly choosing that he was loitering. There is no written definition circumstances in which someone can be classified as loitering. There are tons of people who do the same, if not worse, and are not subjected to this undignified arrest and fine. If a different cop were to show up and have a different opinion, he’d have never gotten the fine. If you cannot concretely say that “This is what you have broken” and “This is why it is wrong” then there should not be a punishment for it.
He is not contradicting himself. The person who refused to say what bylaw was broken was a completely different person with a different name. I’d suggest reading the article in future so you don’t make such mistakes.
He never claimed ownership of the public space.
He said that the sun came out while he was in the cruiser and he missed the shot. So if anything, the police kept him at this place even longer.
For wanting to use a public space and expecting fair/impartial application of the rules? And clear rules to begin with? Lolno
Loitering is to stand idly without purpose. But he had a purpose: that to photograph an iconic hotel. With professional gear. He was on public property, committing no crime.
I would challenge this in court.
FYI, he wasn’t taking photos, he was standing idly and was blocking a public sidewalk with his equipment while he waited for a good shot. He claimed that he was out of the way, but that particular sidewalk doesn’t allow for any room to be “out of the way” because it has a street on one side and a wall on the other.
Granted, he had a massive tripod and a pro camera right outside the US consulate building for at least a half hour, which is why the police were called. He had been asked to move along, and he just argued, so he got a ticket.
A pro photographer, with intention to shoot commercial photography in a public place, might have applied for a permit first. Especially if the shoot required blocking public walkways for such a long time.
He can certainly challenge this in court, but to what end? He seemed to be clearly in the wrong.
So many words in defend of this law suggests not even you can accept this outcome.
The just is clear enough to say in only a few words. This outcome is unjust.
What’s the matter ? You can’t read too many word ?? He is explaining his opinion dude. Relax. If this gets to court we will see what the outcome is. Both opinion are validm blocking the sidewalk is bad but I can see why someone would want to take time to take a good shot of chateau Frontenac.
I agree that putting him in handcuffs and ticketing him seems extreme, as a warning could have been enough.
He is still in the wrong, regardless.