Are there any other white North Americans here that grew up in mild reverence of your alleged mixed Native American heritage, and then find out later (through DNA tests or what have you) that there isn’t even the slightest trace of native in your bloodline, and all of your relatives (who have Cherokee art in their house and shit) have all been terribly misled by some weird family rumor for decades?
Like, I suppose the silver lining here is that it’s probably a good thing to have more white people out there who respect and are sympathetic toward the plight of native genocide, but holy fuck, boys… It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the family has an explanation for it. Every last person just grew up accepting that our Grandmother/Great Grandmother/Family Matriarch was half Cherokee.
It’s my understanding that this is a common thing in Appalachia, and while my family is from the Great Lakes, my Great Grandparents fled Kentucky during or shortly after the Harlan County strikes, so I imagine the rumor began all the way back then. Though this rumor only gets weirder for those familiar with the miner strikers when you note my (confirmed) descendency from one of the primary villains of that period, who was most certainly not of Cherokee blood. But who am I to say whether or not he engaged in coitus and/or matrimony with someone believed to have been.
It’s becoming quite the scandal in Canada, where academics are claiming indigenous heritage to get sweet teaching gigs. Buffy St.Marie is the latest greatest liar.
It’s conceivable that someone could have been accepted into a tribe and grew up believing themselves to be Native American, but the whole confirmed-descent-from-primary-villain thing really blows that hypothesis out of the water.
Yeah, it’s very unusual. It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the family has much information about my Great Great Grandmother, who is the alleged link. I’m not sure what became of her during or after all the strife, or if she was even alive or present. It’s almost as though the family history just kind of begins after my Great Grandmother left Harlan behind, and that’s probably very much intentional. She was the youngest of her family, saw her father do some disturbing things (made her older siblings dig holes out in the woods, etc.), and was innocent in all of it herself.
That is exactly what happened to me. I didn’t find out until I took a 23 and me test. I didn’t believe the results, took the Ancestry.com test, got the exact same results. Had some interesting conversations with family after that, but basically, no one is willing to accept it’s been a lie the whole time.
So there’s a lot to unpack here but I’ll give it a try:
You could have native ancestry even if it doesn’t show up in a DNA test. Consider a person with ancestry A has a kid with someone of another ancestry, whose descendants do not reproduce with another person with ancestry A. Then that ancestry would logically show up in these percentages: 100 50 25 12.5 6.25 3.125 <2 <1… But this assumes that it divides evenly, which it does not. Even if it did though, in this example that ancestry might be undetectable after about 8 generations.
There’s a lot of “I have a native ancestor” narratives out there. Why? Claims to American legitimacy, alleviation of colonial guilt, that one guy in a feathered headdress cried about littering and I’m sad about it too, etc.
It doesn’t matter. Ancestry is pointless. Your DNA is just a listing of the traits your body was originally constructed on. If a native couple adopt a white kid and raise them on a reservation that child has had more of the native experience than a white passing person of native ancestry raised in Boston. Even more importantly though, none of it changes the fact that colonialism was a crime, we all should have empathy for its victims, and the way forward is by treating people with respect and dignity and trying to repair the damage while preventing it from happening again.
It’s up to the tribe if she can claim membership or not. Many tribes require that you can prove direct descendancy from someone on the final rolls of the Dawes act. No amount of native DNA will gain you access if you can’t prove direct descendancy. Tribes with casinos and casino money are especially guarded about letting people in, sometimes excluding groups who meet the criteria and have proof. There was a group of about 50 people who sued a tribe to be admitted when I was younger. They wanted in, because getting in meant you were financially set for life. They had all the proof needed to get in, but still lost the case. It’s hard to win in court against groups that have billions of dollars, especially if those groups make the rules.
Right, Warren claimed Cherokee ancestry, not tribal membership. A story was passed down in her family and the DNA test results are in line with that story. She learned about the culture, visited the lands, and even published a cringey cookbook. By all accounts, her beliefs about her heritage were sincere and plausible, if embarrassing.
Wait, it actually did? I thought the whole issue was that she “lied” about it to get special treatment in admissions for schooling.
So these asshats going on about “Pocahontas warren” aren’t even correct? They’re just mocking how DNA transfer happens over generations? That would absolutely be on brand, mock someone for your own ignorance…
Yes, though it didn’t “prove” ancestry to the high standards required for tribal membership, which requires linking one’s ancestry back through specific names using official genealogical records. She is estimated to be 1/32 Cherokee ancestry, exactly in line with her family stories, and the same as the current chief of one of the Cherokee nations. But, to be clear, we should also be respectful of the Cherokee nation’s political sovereignty in determining membership.
First, my parents nor grandparents had a significant amount of Cherokee or other American Indian items on display. It’s possible my grandparents did but they had tons of knickknacks and if they did have some they weren’t a significant portion. So that’s a no to one of your questions.
However, I was always told I was 1/16th Cherokee. I don’t remember who told me this originally. It was never a big deal, more just like a fun fact that was shared with me. I never really thought anything of it. At some point in college I remember hearing how all white people believe they’re 1/16th Cherokee. For context, my mother’s family that the ancestry allegedly comes from is from Dahlonega, GA which is sort of the southern most tip of the Appalachian mountains. Well, maybe not the most southern but pretty far down. So the Appalachian part tracks. Also, of course, the Cherokee were from Appalachia so that tracks as well.
So, when my grand parents died we were going through their stuff and we found some paper explaining how we were Cherokee. I don’t want to oversell this paper. It wasn’t a certificate. It was sharpie written on printer paper. But it was a little family tree showing how my mother and her siblings were 1/8th Cherokee. I want to be totally clear. I don’t put faith in this. I don’t necessarily even believe it’s correct or anything. However, it was fascinating to see that my grandparents actually believed it. Moreso that I didn’t make up that I was told this growing up. Does that make sense? Sort of like a reassurance that I wasn’t crazy for believing I was told this. I didn’t necessarily believe the accuracy of the claim, just that the claim was made.
My best guess is that this ancestor who would be my grand parent’s grand parent, may have been partially Cherokee but that was exaggerated. I don’t really know.
I viewed being 1/16th Cherokee growing up like I view the results of my DNA test now. Just some interesting information about my heritage but not exactly important. The way I sort of see Irish stuff now, which 23andme said I was. I don’t feel some great call to return to my roots, but it’s slightly more interesting than it would’ve been otherwise.
Are there any other white North Americans here that grew up in mild reverence of your alleged mixed Native American heritage, and then find out later (through DNA tests or what have you) that there isn’t even the slightest trace of native in your bloodline, and all of your relatives (who have Cherokee art in their house and shit) have all been terribly misled by some weird family rumor for decades?
Like, I suppose the silver lining here is that it’s probably a good thing to have more white people out there who respect and are sympathetic toward the plight of native genocide, but holy fuck, boys… It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the family has an explanation for it. Every last person just grew up accepting that our Grandmother/Great Grandmother/Family Matriarch was half Cherokee.
It’s my understanding that this is a common thing in Appalachia, and while my family is from the Great Lakes, my Great Grandparents fled Kentucky during or shortly after the Harlan County strikes, so I imagine the rumor began all the way back then. Though this rumor only gets weirder for those familiar with the miner strikers when you note my (confirmed) descendency from one of the primary villains of that period, who was most certainly not of Cherokee blood. But who am I to say whether or not he engaged in coitus and/or matrimony with someone believed to have been.
It’s becoming quite the scandal in Canada, where academics are claiming indigenous heritage to get sweet teaching gigs. Buffy St.Marie is the latest greatest liar.
It’s conceivable that someone could have been accepted into a tribe and grew up believing themselves to be Native American, but the whole confirmed-descent-from-primary-villain thing really blows that hypothesis out of the water.
Yeah, it’s very unusual. It doesn’t seem as though anyone in the family has much information about my Great Great Grandmother, who is the alleged link. I’m not sure what became of her during or after all the strife, or if she was even alive or present. It’s almost as though the family history just kind of begins after my Great Grandmother left Harlan behind, and that’s probably very much intentional. She was the youngest of her family, saw her father do some disturbing things (made her older siblings dig holes out in the woods, etc.), and was innocent in all of it herself.
That is exactly what happened to me. I didn’t find out until I took a 23 and me test. I didn’t believe the results, took the Ancestry.com test, got the exact same results. Had some interesting conversations with family after that, but basically, no one is willing to accept it’s been a lie the whole time.
So there’s a lot to unpack here but I’ll give it a try:
Elizabeth Warren
Not to say she gets to claim tribal membership, but her DNA test corroborated her family story. I never understood why she got so much shit for that.
It’s up to the tribe if she can claim membership or not. Many tribes require that you can prove direct descendancy from someone on the final rolls of the Dawes act. No amount of native DNA will gain you access if you can’t prove direct descendancy. Tribes with casinos and casino money are especially guarded about letting people in, sometimes excluding groups who meet the criteria and have proof. There was a group of about 50 people who sued a tribe to be admitted when I was younger. They wanted in, because getting in meant you were financially set for life. They had all the proof needed to get in, but still lost the case. It’s hard to win in court against groups that have billions of dollars, especially if those groups make the rules.
Right, Warren claimed Cherokee ancestry, not tribal membership. A story was passed down in her family and the DNA test results are in line with that story. She learned about the culture, visited the lands, and even published a cringey cookbook. By all accounts, her beliefs about her heritage were sincere and plausible, if embarrassing.
Wait, it actually did? I thought the whole issue was that she “lied” about it to get special treatment in admissions for schooling.
So these asshats going on about “Pocahontas warren” aren’t even correct? They’re just mocking how DNA transfer happens over generations? That would absolutely be on brand, mock someone for your own ignorance…
Yes, though it didn’t “prove” ancestry to the high standards required for tribal membership, which requires linking one’s ancestry back through specific names using official genealogical records. She is estimated to be 1/32 Cherokee ancestry, exactly in line with her family stories, and the same as the current chief of one of the Cherokee nations. But, to be clear, we should also be respectful of the Cherokee nation’s political sovereignty in determining membership.
Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren
Yes, sort of. Let me tell you my tale.
First, my parents nor grandparents had a significant amount of Cherokee or other American Indian items on display. It’s possible my grandparents did but they had tons of knickknacks and if they did have some they weren’t a significant portion. So that’s a no to one of your questions.
However, I was always told I was 1/16th Cherokee. I don’t remember who told me this originally. It was never a big deal, more just like a fun fact that was shared with me. I never really thought anything of it. At some point in college I remember hearing how all white people believe they’re 1/16th Cherokee. For context, my mother’s family that the ancestry allegedly comes from is from Dahlonega, GA which is sort of the southern most tip of the Appalachian mountains. Well, maybe not the most southern but pretty far down. So the Appalachian part tracks. Also, of course, the Cherokee were from Appalachia so that tracks as well.
So, when my grand parents died we were going through their stuff and we found some paper explaining how we were Cherokee. I don’t want to oversell this paper. It wasn’t a certificate. It was sharpie written on printer paper. But it was a little family tree showing how my mother and her siblings were 1/8th Cherokee. I want to be totally clear. I don’t put faith in this. I don’t necessarily even believe it’s correct or anything. However, it was fascinating to see that my grandparents actually believed it. Moreso that I didn’t make up that I was told this growing up. Does that make sense? Sort of like a reassurance that I wasn’t crazy for believing I was told this. I didn’t necessarily believe the accuracy of the claim, just that the claim was made.
My best guess is that this ancestor who would be my grand parent’s grand parent, may have been partially Cherokee but that was exaggerated. I don’t really know.
I viewed being 1/16th Cherokee growing up like I view the results of my DNA test now. Just some interesting information about my heritage but not exactly important. The way I sort of see Irish stuff now, which 23andme said I was. I don’t feel some great call to return to my roots, but it’s slightly more interesting than it would’ve been otherwise.
Well, it was a sign of the times but, if you were kinda tan you had to have a story that explained how you definitely weren’t black.