They could have easily crammed the Steam Deck full of stuff to make it hard to use for piracy - locking down everything, making it usable only to play games you legitimately own, force you to go through who knows what hoops in order to play games on it. That’s what Nintendo or Apple or most other companies do.

But they didn’t, because they realized they didn’t have to. It’s 100% possible to put pirated games on the Switch - in fact, it’s as easy as it could reasonably be. You copy it over, you wire it up to Steam, if it’s a non-Linux game you set it up with Proton or whatever else you want to use to run it, bam. You can now run it in Steam just as easily as a normal Steam game (usually.) If you want something similar to cloud saves you can even set up SyncThing for that.

But all of that is a lot of work, and after all that you still don’t have automatic updates, and some games won’t run this way for one reason or another even though they’ll run if you own them (usually, I assume, because of Steam Deck specific tweaks or installed that are only used when you’re running them on the Deck via the normal method.) Some of this you can work around but it’s even more hoops.

Whereas if you own a game it’s just push a button and play. They made legitimately owning a game more convenient than piracy, and they did it without relying on DRM or anything that restricts or annoys legitimate users at all - even if a game has a DRM-free GOG version, owning it on Steam will still make it easier to play on the Steam Deck.

  • CrushKillDestroySwag [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    10 months ago

    I think you meant to say “Deck” in the second paragraph.

    But yeah I totally vibe with your observation. Something a bit ironic with this situation is that a big part of why other companies simply can’t provide the kind of service Steam does is copyright issues - XBox and Playstation both give out free games, Nintendo has their online service, but no option remotely compares to “make everything available on one app on the most modern device.” Imagine if Nintendo put everything that had ever appeared on the Wii/DS/Wii U/3DS/Switch shops all on one online storefront on the Switch, and let you attach ownership to your account and play everything you owned on the most recent device - then they would have about a quarter of the functionality that Steam has on the Deck, where you have access to every game you’ve bought for PC for as long as Steam has existed (and quite a few things from before that) and the number of things that have lost compatibility is pretty low.

  • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    10 months ago

    It’s built on Linux. Specifically Arch Linux. So no, there’s nothing they could have done to lock it down to prevent piracy. Not even if they wanted to.

    • 520@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      It’s built on Linux.

      So what? Orbis (the PlayStation OS) is built on FreeBSD, but there’s still anti piracy on the PS5.

      So no, there’s nothing they could have done to lock it down to prevent piracy.

      They could have:

      • locked the machine to SteamOS only
      • allowed only the Steam UI
      • encrypted the SSD using a TPM chip to prevent messing with the OS.
      • disallow applications that expose the underlying UI
      • have an Apple esque signing policy when it comes to system binaries
      • not allow custom shortcuts.
      • much more

      Believe me, if they wanted to try, they could have.

      • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        You got me there. Doing stuff like that on other platforms like the Switch totally prevented piracy, so I suppose it’s a good thing they didn’t do it on a system that thousands of devs know down to the kernel without having to reverse engineer.

          • Rossel@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            Nintendo was super competent with the Switch, their kernel is actually ridiculously secure. I’m pretty sure if Nvidia hadn’t messed up, we would still be scratching our heads with the Switch.

        • 520@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          If you think that the goal of anti piracy measures is to be an impenetrable barrier, you’ve completely misunderstood the assignment.

          The idea isn’t to be literally impossible, but to be so hard to do that even the moderate tech heads won’t bother.

          The likes of Nintendo don’t care if 12 people are pirating their games, what they want to prevent is situations line the PlayStation Portable, where almost everyone was cracking that fucker wide open and there was a shit ton of piracy.

        • Zorque@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          You said prevent, not eliminate. There’s tens of thousands of ways to prevent piracy. They are not infallible, but they are preventatives.

          There is nothing on this earth that will eliminate piracy.

          Where would you like to move the goalposts now?

          • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            10 months ago

            Anytime you’re reduced to arguing semantics, it’s not even an argument worth engaging in. So I’m not going to bother responding further to you.

          • AnonTwo@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            That’s not moving goalposts, you’re just arguing semantics. People generally think of eliminate when they say prevent in this kind of conversation…

            If anything if they went “prevention” and not “eliminate” like in your sense…it would be even dumber because it would just make the steamdeck a more restrictive x86-processor computer compared to the systems people were already comparing it to up until it’s release

            Imagine how it would’ve gone down if people were saying “Of course you can do that, it’s a PC” if people responded with “Yeah, except it’s 10x harder to do things you could normally do on PC”. They wanted it to be close to how a PC is, it was part of the advertising campaign.

      • Neshura@bookwormstory.social
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        10 months ago

        actually making linux usable with the deck controls was probably more work than locking the users out of the desktop mode even

    • Rossel@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      There’s a lot they could have done, locking down Linux isn’t that hard. Just look at Chrome OS, it’s based on Gentoo, yet it’s locked down completely. All they had.to do is lock the BIOS, enable secure boot and disable root access, and then it’s pretty much a locked system.

    • Galli [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      10 months ago

      Android is built on linux yet it is increasingly locked down and many phones are extremely difficult to get root access on.

      So Valve could have followed the phone ecosystem path and pushed as much of the feature set as proprietary code as possible (binary blob drivers, proton proprietary instead of bsd), replaced pacman with a valve controlled package manager & repos, setup selinux to give users no power to do anything and made the deck only able to secure boot steamOS signed by Valve. Technical users may be able to jail break such a device but the majority would not be inclined to.

      Valve’s wisdom here is in realizing that the majority are going to buy their games anyway but if you don’t lock the device down then most of the technical users will also buy most of their games whereas if you have to go out of your way to jail break a device to install something fun then that device basically becomes a piracy only device from that point on.

    • conciselyverbose@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      They could have not given you root access and forced you to install your own OS for it to manage things that aren’t on Steam. They could have locked the bootloader and refused to install anything they didn’t sign.

      Neither would violate the license provided they made the source available.

  • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    The steam deck is how you prevent piracy. If you look at the huge influx of streaming services, you’ll see an example of how you encourage piracy. I recently dropped three of my services in favor of one pirate site that has almost everything. They even offer a subscription tier and I’ve considered it. I’m willing to pay creative people to create good content. What I’m not willing to do is pay dozens of middlemen across multiple companies to rip off the people who actually make my favorite shows and then memory hole the shows a few months after they premiere.

    • epyon22@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      Recently got a switch. Digital games are same price as physical, locked to my account/switch and saves don’t move easily between devices. Steam deck, I can play on any hardware that can support it TV, PC laptop games cloud save for free. I can play online games for free. I know that games I buy today will be available in 10 years on my next PC. I only buy carts for the switch cause they give me more flexibility still not even the same as steam.

      • Moonrise2473@feddit.it
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        10 months ago

        I very rarely backup game saves but only the thought of being locked to a console puts me off. I can’t possibly invest 100+ hours in a Pokemon game and lose everything of the battery dies, screen breaks, console is forgotten on a bus or stolen, and so on.

        • EatYouWell@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Switch save files can be saved in the cloud, but the game devs have to enable it. You can also save them to an SD card.

          • Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip
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            10 months ago

            Saved in the cloud if youre a NSO subscriber* Aint paying for the sub? Tough luck kid.

          • Pepsi@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            Except for Pokémon games which are saved directly to the internal storage and unable to be moved unless you have the original save device (and it’s working) as well as the new device and transfer the save manually.

            Splatoon is the same. Saves are locked to the system, even with NSO.

            Animal crossing was the same until people raised hell about it.

    • drathvedro@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      It’s not the amount of services that’s the problem, the competition is aleays a good thing. It’s exclusives that are the problem. Almost noone is complaining about origin and uplay even thouhh it’s games are available via a launcher launching yet another launcher. But epic? Everyone hates epic precisely because of their exclusive deals taking content off of other platforms. And for streaming, I guess if some of the players worked out some deal to get their hands on exclusives from other platforms, people would stop complaining about it, even if they jack up the prices to ultimately end up with the same amount of revenue.

    • Whirlybird@aussie.zone
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      10 months ago

      The steam deck does nothing to prevent piracy though? It’s just a portable pc. Nothing about it is making pc gaming any more enticing to make people stop pirating.

      • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Please read 1984. That’s where this term comes from. You’re living through a combination of it and Brave New World.

        • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          Amazon TVs seem like they used 1984 as a reference.

          But yeah somewhere between 1984 and BNW sounds right. The government and the megacorporations are not opposed but in fact the very same party. Instead of mood-numbing or happy drugs, it’s sugar and antidepressants. Instead of government watching you it’s corporations selling every part of your identity down to your menstruation cycle. You are kept in line with debt rather than force, which is honestly worse because you put the shackles on yourself, and you do it because the alternative is worse.

          Your own special hell.

            • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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              10 months ago

              With respect to social media, I think Fahrenheit 451 might have nailed that best. Everyone involved in a neverending orgy of ego and drama over dumb shit, most of which isn’t real anyway.

              Did anyone predict the agrostophobia?

  • mateomaui@reddthat.com
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    10 months ago

    I don’t even own a steamdeck yet but most of my actual purchases are from Steam in preparation for the next big revision. Buy Steam cheap from keyshops, pirate GOG for backup.

  • BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one
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    10 months ago

    Here’s my piracy shtick.

    I beat half of Blasphemous on a pirated copy then I bought it, moved the save file and kept playing.

    Criteria: I like the game. I’ll probably play it again in ten years and I want to support the devs.

    What would’ve happened if I never pirated it? I’d be saying the same thing about someone else’s game.

    • pgetsos@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      I pretty much do the same for almost a decade whenever a game doesn’t have a demo available

  • ѕєχυαℓ ρσℓутσρє@lemmy.sdf.org
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    10 months ago

    Games are one of the very few things that I always pay for. Steam is mostly responsible for that. Also, music. But nowadays I do store some of my own music because I can have lossless that way.

    • octoblade@lemmynsfw.com
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      10 months ago

      Probably not. Although I can’t buy a Steam Deck in my country, Linux is my daily driver on my gaming PC. In my experience, buying games on steam is genuinely much much easier than piracy on Linux. Even just trying to run Windows games purchased elsewhere (such as GOG) to run in wine is much more difficult than steam. There are no other game stores that are anywhere near as good on Linux.

      • Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com
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        10 months ago

        Fair enough, I completely forgot about bringing games, with forceps 😊, to the Linux platform.

        Mea culpa.

        I’m probably just a tiny bit itchy after years on Reddit.

  • trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    10 months ago

    It’s 100% possible to put pirated games on the Switch - in fact, it’s as easy as it could reasonably be.

    Hacking or cracking DRM takes time, but it doesn’t present a real obstacle for pirates to overcome.

  • Neshura@bookwormstory.social
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    10 months ago

    I actually bought some games on Steam I already owned on other launchers because while I could set them up via Lutris or the like just hitting “Play” is so much easier it’s unreal. Valve is doing so much to make Linux game as comfortable as possible I don’t even remotely consider buying from anyone else because there it’s a pain in the ass just to get the game running once, never mind keeping it running through updates

    • ChrisFhey@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      Not to mention keeping game saves in sync. I’m experimenting with syncthing for my pirated games, but I have to admit that just getting the Steam version sounds much more sensible now that I’ve my Steam deck.

      • spaceaape@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        I use syncthing for my emulator savestates between retroarch on my deck and retroarch on my android tv(no steam client or steam cloud sync for android or android tv), no matter where i decide to play I always have my most recent save. It also has versioning so i can go back to older versions of saves. I use a virtual private server(or seedbox) running syncthing as the in-between cloud host.

        I wrote up a guide on how to do it in the Steam Retroarch community guides. It shouldn’t be much different for PC game saves, just choosing a different folder, specifically the one with your chosen files.

  • ReCursing@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    I buy most of my games on steam simply because it makes running them on Linux so damn easy, and I remember the bad old days when it was hell!

    • Neshura@bookwormstory.social
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      10 months ago

      By now Steam’s most loyal userbase is probably the Linux Gaming community because they make it so easy to just play the games, not to mention the QoL improvements they contribute to upstream projects

  • firecat@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    Well that’s completely untrue, the operating system is not open source, steamOS should be open source and Valve refuses to do it.

    Your opinion on gaming is irrelevant because Proton is another software and Valve employees don’t contribute to the code, GitHub records show zero activity from them. Some games don’t even work.

    Steam Deck/ Valve don’t support piracy, the User Agreement you signed up to obtain Steam Deck says by default it doesn’t support piracy.

    They didn’t make games easier to buy. You still need the Client, you still need to sign up, you can’t sue Valve, you will get banned if the key is illegal and obtaining games that’s not American or Europe is super hard.

    Valve just selling a junk machine with their brand. Nothing special about it.

    • averyminya@beehaw.org
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      10 months ago

      This seems pretty whack dude. Proton has been heavily contributed to via Valve, if at least only by paying people to work on it. Without Valve proton would be in a much more dire state than it is now. Seriously, just look at its progress just 6 months before the Steam Deck and after its announcement. It’s a night and day difference.

      “some games don’t even work” I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. With a library of 1.2k trying to see games that don’t work when they’re “unsupported” I’ve yet to come across any. I’m sure there are but, again, what’s your point? That gaming on Linux still has some games that don’t work?

      They don’t officially support piracy. What company does? And does Valve do anything to prevent your cracked Non-Steam game from running? So… Their “lack” of piracy support means nothing because you can still do whatever you want. Ok.

      “Didn’t make games easier to buy because you have to create an account”. Alright, have fun redownloading things you’ve purchased with no record. Even indie stores have you make an account dude.

      “You will get banned if a key is illegal” lmao, what the fuck is an illegal steam key?? You bought games from a stolen credit card or a region resell and had the key revoked? They don’t ban you. And if you’re talking about being region locked, congratulations, Valve is complying with that government. And if you’re talking about being in the U.S. trying to buy keys from other regions, that is hurting people in the region it’s priced for and you’re a jerk for that.

      What the fuck are you talking about?

      • firecat@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        This right here is an example of Steam brand loyalty. Valve employees have nothing to offer Photon, yet you defend them for being Valve. “Lack” of piracy is not an argument, Valve has a company has stolen from companys before you were ever born, their newest crime, stealing patent game controller just shows how little they changed. Risking their entire existence to support an ideal place for games to steal is just a way to get sued by every company.

        Lastly, yes you can get banned for illegal keys, do basic research where people got their accounts banned because of publishers who revoked the keys.

        • averyminya@beehaw.org
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          10 months ago

          Seeing and taking advantage of services and being happy with it when there is consistency is not brand loyalty. Honestly, always putting these messages behind coy insults just detracts from the actual important part of what you’re trying to say, which is to be wary of where you put your trust. That’s a very valid point of view. It’s true, I am probably trading off these services for the potential longevity of my games.

          Proton development was going very slowly before it was in Valve’s interest change that for their benefit. That language make you happy? You can tell me to research all you want but that is the truth. Proton development sped up exponentially after 2020. What am I defending? I literally said if only in paying people to work on it. The reality is, Proton is where it is today because it benefits the Steam Deck. The end result is the same for Linux gamers. It’s ridiculous to say that Valve offered nothing to Proton when graphed out there is a very clear rise in development after Valve got more involved.

          Stealing patent game controllers, so you side with Corsair and Scuff, notorious patent trolls hoarding designs and actively preventing small controller makers? Awesome, great showing us where you stand there, that’s extremely telling. If you’re talking about other examples - my mistake. Corsair can rot in hell, they have destroyed so many awesome concept controllers with C&Ds. Oh by the way - newest crime? That was in 2015, 8 years ago lmao.

          Risking their entire existence to support an ideal place for games to steal is just a way to get sued by every company.

          I’m not really sure what you are trying to say. Every company doesn’t support piracy but many go through extreme measures to prevent it. Opt-in developer Steam DRM is laughably trivial and literally is only to suggest buying it to avoid going through the hassle of cloning one git repository. Again, you are saying illegal keys but you’re not saying what that is. I did mention being banned can happen in extremely rare cases, but most examples when you actually look online are the fault of the user for working around pretty obvious things. Such as buying grey market or working around region locks to buy keys at a cheaper price.

          Somebody only using Steamless to crack games and putting them in Steam via Non-Steam is at far less risk of getting their account banned than someone working around region locks and buying grey market is, since you are actively feeding into harmful business. Going around region locks hurts those players and grey market risks laundering/stolen credit card keys both of which affect the developers.

          Valve isn’t perfect, I never implied they were. It’s taken a lawsuit (funnily enough, also in 2015) to make them more consumer friendly and yet one suit in Australia affected how they do business worldwide allowing refunds everywhere. Looking to Apple in the EU as an example where one country affects how it does business worldwide I am doubting they will do the same given that they’ve yet to do so for any cases so far.

          Look - I don’t disagree that it’s dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket. The idea of Steam Servers going down would be devastating to many and it’s silly to trust a company at face value when they promise you’ll keep access to it if/when that happens. I have Steamless and keep the really important installers backed up for a reason, it’s smart to have just in case. It’s interesting that I’m able to do this at all on Steam, I have not been able to crack my own games for Ubisoft/EA so I can play them offline and without an account.

          Who do you trust instead? Do you only pirate to make sure you’ve got the installer forever? Only GOG/itch for DRM free?

          Personally I use Steam because I’m under the assumption that if Valve goes under it’s probably because the world is ending and our computers will be useless. Semi-/s

          In the meantime what matters to me is being able to play remotely with friends. It has been huge for our friend group and as far as I know, there is no group remote play alternative available? Anywhere? Streaming my games to the living room or on my phone while on the bus - I know moonlight can do this but it never worked well for me. Controller input with SteamAPI also is a massive improvement and for the games I use it with, my Steam Controller is invaluable having mixed mouse and controller inputs. Cloud saves are pretty standard, but including per-game notes is unique and is now. essential. I don’t want to have to set syncthing to every single folder a game decides is a suitable location for saves, and using .txts or my phone notes was annoying. I only manage my emulation saves now.

          Don’t even get me started on SteamVR compared to WMR. Great teams at working WMR, very friendly and communicative - very frustrating to actually play in. The quest is a joke.

          I use these monthly at minimum, most of them daily. I’m not a fanboy so much as someone who uses a service that isn’t offered elsewhere. I’d be happy to jump ship from Valve if there was something. The main marketed competition is much more awful than Valve and actually has influence on the entire gaming market with Unreal Engine and they very quickly showed how little they care about the user. The other VR options on the market I tried, the Reverb G2 would have been okay if 1) WMR wasn’t a requirement, 2) inside-out camera tracking sucks and 3) inconsistent hardware makes them fragile. Half of what made the VR experience so good was that I was using the Index Knuckles. Got the Index a bit later and despite the lower res it was just such a better experience because I didn’t have to fiddle and tweak to make things work. I got the Steam link (because it was $5) because I was constantly annoyed with moonlight giving me issues - lo and behold the steam link just worked with no issues.

          Until there’s a good alternative, I’m happy with my Steam Deck and Index. I’m content risking my library of games if it means that right now I’m able to play Overcooked with my friend in Indonesia, or end my game on PC and pick up where I left off downstairs either via Steam Link or these days the Deck. These are things that I could not do, either at all or as easily, without Steam.

          Show me an alternative that has a smidge of what I use from Steam and I’ll start switching over. Playnight and GOG Galaxy aren’t it by a longshot. None from what I can tell exist except for a single self-hosted option that just came to fruition this year, and that’s solely for installers and a very barebones launcher (it was called Crack I think, hilarious, but I think the project has been renamed since then). But go on, keep saying it’s blind brand loyalty, ignore the litany of services that get used that make people see it as a worthwhile option.

  • AnonTwo@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    …?

    No they couldn’t, it’s fucking Linux. They’d have to tie the controller drivers hostage to “lock it down”, and at that point they’d hit so many hiccups with legitimate users.

    Like they’d have to pull so many things from Linux (in particular Proton) to “DRM-ify” the steamdeck.

    And as I think someone else just posted, some of the stuff they’d need to lock-down aren’t even things Valve has control over. Like I said Proton but Valve doesn’t own proton.

    • Neshura@bookwormstory.social
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      10 months ago

      you do realize it is absolutely possible to lock down a Linux install? Every Android device essentially is just that and their bootloaders are only unlockable because they were forced to by EU law. Steam absolutely had the option to make a Linux based DRM shitfest, in some ways it would have been easier even, they just chose not to

    • Rossel@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      It’s not impossible or even hard to lock down Linux. Just look at Chrome OS, it’s Gentoo based, but with the bootloader locked and root access removed, it is pretty much immutable.

      And Chromebooks just use off the shelf parts.

    • Square Singer@feddit.de
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      10 months ago

      Tieing down a Linux installation is actually pretty easy.

      • Lock the BIOS down so that it can only boot a Valve-signed OS
      • Remove root access on the OS
      • chown root:root on anything you don’t want the users to touch

      It’s pretty much the same as Android device vendors are doing.

      • AnonTwo@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        The…arm-based systems that use a different kind of BIOS?

        If even Apple isn’t doing it on x86, I don’t see why Valve would start.

        • justJanne@startrek.website
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          10 months ago

          Microsoft actually locked down the BIOS on several Windows 10 S devices to prevent users from installing non-MS OSes with enforced MS-only secure boot.

        • Square Singer@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          Have you heard of Android running on x86?

          I had an x86 Android tablet and that was exactly as locked-down as an ARM Android device.

          But anyhow: I can lock down a x86 laptop or PC the way I was describing within a very short time.

          So again:

          • Put a password on the BIOS
          • Set Secure Boot on
          • Wipe all Secure Boot keys and put your own in there
          • Encrypt the disk so that you can’t just plop the drive into another PC and modify its content
          • Set the root user to “Can only login with private key” and don’t give the key to the customers
          • Remove all users from sudoers
          • Use chown root:root and chmod 700 on anything you don’t want the user to touch

          And if a company was doing this to their products (e.g. the Steam Deck), they’d replace the first 3 steps with a custom BIOS which just doesn’t let you change anything in regards to Secure Boot and Secure Boot keys. That way, removing the BIOS battery won’t help.

          There are countless embedded devices using an x86 PC at their core, where they did exactly that. (E.g. ATMs or medical devices)

          Also Chromebooks are exactly that.

          And the Playstation 5 does the same thing, only it’s based on FreeBSD.

  • bitwolf@lemmy.one
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    10 months ago

    I was playing MegaMan Battle Neckwork and Tony Hawks pro Skater using emu deck for almost a year.

    When both dropped on Steam I bought both. Unfortunately MegaMan Battle Network requires Internet to run so I reverted back to the emulators.

    Tony Hawk is a wonderful port however.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      Mega Man Battle Network does not require internet to run, it only requires internet for the multiplayer. Which is dead anyway

      • bitwolf@lemmy.one
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        10 months ago

        Hmm, I just tried to open it on the plane and it asked me to connect to the Internet.

        I’ll have to try again. Did you upset steam into offline mode prior?

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          I know that I’ve played it during internet outages, which is fucking ironic considering it’s an internet themed RPG

    • Adalast@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Valve is one of those companies that I genuinely believe makes a strong argument for ethical capitalism being possible. Sure, they have some shitty things, but overall they do treat developers and customers reasonably well, they provide hardware and software that is easy to use and non-abusive (not filled with spyware and data harvesters, doesn’t use advertising, is well maintained, etc.). If we could obliterate all of the other major conglomerates and replace them with people/companies that understand that you don’t have to be a massive pile of shit to make money the world would be better off.

      • Morgikan@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Valve argued in court that you do not own any title in your library and that they are a subscription based service. That’s not very ethical.

        • ryannathans@aussie.zone
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          10 months ago

          Is that not true though? As much as we hate it, until you get given some transferrable proof of ownership of the game (like an NFT) and ability to play without being tied to one service, it’s the unfortunate reality of online game services.

          It’s easy to go buy a physical game but when it’s online, you don’t own anything - yet

          • xep@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            It’s true. Pragmatically speaking if you don’t have access to the server software you can’t play it if the servers go down, and besides reverse engineering or the goodwill of the developers I’m not aware of any games with online components that continue to be playable after their servers are taken down.

            • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
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              10 months ago

              Well then allow me to name a few:

              • Battlefront 2 (the original), still active when the servers have been down for years

              • Titanfall 2. Official servers aren’t technically down, but pretty much unusable and NorthStar is the alternative

              • Counter strike 1.6 is pretty much just community-run servers, same with day of defeat: source. I don’t know if they are tied with valve that if valve shut them down, they wouldn’t be searchable.

              • Supreme commander: Forged Alliance

              Hell, Battle for Middle Earth II still has a small community

              • Valheim has never had official servers. I run my own via docker on debian

              • Unreal Tournament 1999

              • Minecraft (official servers aren’t down, but if they shutdown there would still be 2000 servers)

            • DroneRights [it/its]@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              Back in 2000-2012, a good lot of mainly singleplayer games had optional multiplayer modes. Think Halo, Starcraft, TRON, Titanfall, etc. Even DOOM 2016 had it. These games function with the servers down.

              • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works
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                10 months ago

                Something I haven’t thought about in a while: In the early 2000s games where you made a direct connection to the other player without an intervening, third-party server were still a thing. You still see it in things like netplay functionality in emulators.

                Is this still a thing at all in 2023? Imagine it would be very niche, but this comment made me curious.

          • seaturtle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            10 months ago

            Fundamentally I don’t really know how it’d be viable to truly “own” a specific copy of something, when it’s always possible to make infinitely many copies of it. Any such “ownership” is at best essentially just conceptual, aside from perhaps the legal right to annoy other people about the copies they are in possession of.

            So instead my personal take is that I’d rather everything just be offered DRM-free. I don’t necessarily need transferable ownership as much as I just need proper and guaranteed access under my own control after I purchase the product.

            • ryannathans@aussie.zone
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              10 months ago

              NFTs cannot have copies made (apart from by the publisher) and are ideally suited to this problem

              • seaturtle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                10 months ago

                But anything that exists as digital data can be copied. The same applies to NFTs. Make an NFT image or game or whatever, and it can be copied by whoever has access to it. The only way to prevent such copying is to not release it at all.

                The only stipulation is that copies made without authorization of whoever holds the rights to it would not be “official” instances of the thing, and there are potential copyright restrictions on the use of such copies…but that’s using NFTs to justify copyright law, and aside from “lol copyright”, legal of ownership of an NFT is even more of a mess than traditional legal ownership of an IP.

                • ryannathans@aussie.zone
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                  10 months ago

                  You’re talking about media linked to by existing NFTs. You can’t copy an NFT and use it, you don’t have the cryptographic keys to mint more. There is a finite number.

        • Jako301@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          You never owned any software, even before valve. All you ever purchased was a license key that could be revoked at any time.

          That isn’t a problem made by valve, it existed far before the whole company was even founded. The underlying issue is the way digital mediums are licensed and the corresponding copyright laws.

        • CountVon@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          Commerce conducted in a capitalist economy is inherently capitalist. Being publicly traded is not strictly required, though it might be the most common form of corporate structure under capitalism. Individuals, partnerships, privately-held and publicly-traded companies can all own capital. Valve’s assets are not owned by a government, its business decisions are made privately and it operates in a free market. Those three factors are pretty much the definition of capitalism.

        • CountVon@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          I’m not convinced that Valve will go down the tubes when Gabe shuffles off this moral coil (praise gaben may he live a thousand years). It would require a strong company culture that believes as he does that piracy is a service issue and is thus willing to adhere to his vision in his absence, but that can happen in a privately held company if there’s a strong succession plan in place.

          Now, if Gabe dies and Valve goes public, then it’s pretty much over. Platform monetization, proft-taking and short-term thinking would enshittify Steam in short order.

      • uis@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        since the alternative is being kicked out at 18 without anywhere to go or money.

        More like socialism. Valve is privately owmed company that is run like half-company half-coop.

        • giggling_engine@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          This.

          Their strength comes from having zero management and all projects are born and lead by the devs themselves. As close to communism as you could get in a capitalistic world. It does come with some problems but they’re totally manageable - like having a strictly homogeneous workforce (which, one could argue, isn’t a bad thing)

    • theangryseal@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      It’s funny. I’m dirt poor and I really want to play The Last of Us again. I could easily download it and get it going through piracy. Heck, it’s crossed my mind a time or two.

      But you know what I’m doing? I’m waiting for it to go on sale and I’ll grab it then if the time is right. If not I’ll wait until it is.

      I have plenty to do until then.

      It’s definitely a service issue. I haven’t pirated a single game on Steam Deck.