- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Take your bow conservatives. This is ALL a result of your cowardice.
Hopefully whatever government rises up from the ashes of the US after its inevitable downfall will put gun control in the constitution.
We have this crazy thing in democracy we’re supposed to use where we’re allowed to all vote to change stuff about how the government runs to make things run better.
The hard part of government has never been the governing principals, but the politicians themselves. Idc what government system you choose, I will point out to you how it can be exploited and poisoned.
Half the presidents in my lifetime lost the popular vote.
We don’t have democracy.
There’s still time. You don’t have to settle for second.
Some supporting and related information.
An Examination of US School Mass Shootings, 2017–2022: Findings and Implications
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41252-022-00277-3
Objectives
Gun violence in the USA is a pressing social and public health issue. As rates of gun violence continue to rise, deaths resulting from such violence rise as well. School shootings, in particular, are at their highest recorded levels. In this study, we examined rates of intentional firearm deaths, mass shootings, and school mass shootings in the USA using data from the past 5 years, 2017–2022, to assess trends and reappraise prior examination of this issue.
Methods
Extant data regarding shooting deaths from 2017 through 2020 were obtained from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, the web-based injury statistics query and reporting system (WISQARS), and, for school shootings in particular (2017–2022), from Everytown Research & Policy.
Results
The number of intentional firearm deaths and the crude death rates increased from 2017 to 2020 in all age categories; crude death rates rose from 4.47 in 2017 to 5.88 in 2020. School shootings made a sharp decline in 2020—understandably so, given the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent government or locally mandated school shutdowns—but rose again sharply in 2021.
Conclusions
Recent data suggest continued upward trends in school shootings, school mass shootings, and related deaths over the past 5 years. Notably, gun violence disproportionately affects boys, especially Black boys, with much higher gun deaths per capita for this group than for any other group of youth. Implications for policy and practice are provided.
Trends in mass shootings in the United States (2013–2021): A worsening American epidemic of death
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.amjsurg.2023.03.028
Background
Mass shootings represent a significant problem in the United States (US). This study aimed to examine trends in mass shootings in the US over time.
Methods
Retrospective mass shooting data (1/2013–12/2021) were collected from the Gun Violence Archive. A scatterplot was constructed showing predicted (extrapolated from 2013 to 2019) versus actual total mass shootings in 2020 and 2021. Multivariate linear regressions were performed to evaluate trends in mass shootings over time, associated with gun law strength.
Results
Mass shooting incidents, injuries, and deaths in 2020 and 2021 exceeded extrapolations from previous years. When comparing 2019 to 2020, stronger gun laws were associated with decreased monthly mass shooting deaths. For these same strong gun law states, monthly mass shooting deaths decreased when comparing 2019 to 2021 and comparing 2020 to 2021.
Conclusions
US mass shootings have increased over the past decade. Stronger gun laws appear associated with fewer monthly mass shooting-related deaths. Firearm-related legislation may at least partially, curtail the worsening of this substantial “American problem” of mass shootings.
It’s a shame they make a mockery of this by inflating the numbers with events that are very obviously not mass shootings.
Mass shootings are clearly defined. What’s your problem
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
Here is an actual list of mass shootings. There was 27 in 2023.
Their inflated number they made up is all about generating fear.
Clearly defined by a bullshit definition is still bullshit.
Only shootings that have Wikipedia articles of their own are included in this list
It doesn’t count unless there’s a Wikipedia page about it? Really?
So to you it’s the same thing when a drug deal goes bad and people get shot, and when a kid goes and shoots up an elementary school? The motivation is clearly the same to you? Get real nobody with half a brain considers 95 percent of the shootings in the list of over 600 “mass shootings”
Stay fearful my friends!
Find me one of those “mass shootings” in the big list that’s not on the Wikipedia list where there’s just a shooter out trying to kill randoms that are unarmed.
So the innocent people caught in the crossfire of a gang shooting or the bar fight that got out of control that keeps being mentioned here don’t count to you?
If you end up dead for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, do you really care what the shooter’s motivation was?
Americans have shown that they value their guns more than their personal safety, or the safety of their children. Sandy hook was the last stop and looks like nobody got off.
What the fuck is a kilometer? 🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫
“defines a mass shooting as an incident with at least four injuries or deaths, not including the shooter.”
Which isn’t really a good definition. “Mass shooting” invokes an image of someone showing up at a school, church, grocery store, some other public place, with the sole intent of killing as many people as possible.
That’s not what’s being tracked here.
The classic example tracked by the Gun Violence Archive is this story from my own town:
Two brothers had an illegal marijuana grow. 3 guys from Texas roll up at their house to buy the weed.
It’s not clear what went wrong, but words were had, guns were drawn, both brothers were shot and killed, 2/3 Texans were shot and killed. 3rd was arrested later.
Gun Violence Archive - ZOMG! Mass shooting!
No, that’s pretty average drug crime right there. No innocent victims, everyone involved was engaging in illegal activity BEFORE anyone got shot.
Going through the stories on the Gun Violence Archive, you’ll see a lot of arguments turned into bar fights turned into shootings and so on. Parties that got out of hand, stuff like that. Scenarios that are completely different from some idiot intending to shoot up a school, or target a minority demographic.
Lumping together all of that under the “Mass Shooting” umbrella sure gets people scared though.
Sure, but it’s really difficult, if not impossible, to define that in objective terms. A shooting involving 4 or more people is easy to collect all the data on. Trying to search for all shootings where someone showed up to an event with the intent to kill many people isn’t really objective or trackable.
Wikipedia seems to do OK:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
The precise inclusion criteria are disputed, and there is no broadly accepted definition. Only shootings that have Wikipedia articles of their own are included in this list.
Yeah, no. Not really. It’s useful, but it’s a much smaller subset. This is all notable mass shootings, not all mass shootings. As the article later goes on to describe, the definition is in contention. There are many different definitions that may include far fewer or far more events, just because of the nature of it it can’t be perfect.
For me, I would define a mass shooting as four or more people shot, not counting the perpetrator, where the shooting itself was the objective.
Not a robbery gone bad, not a drug crime, not a gang fight, or a bar fight.
Someone went to a location with the sole intent of shooting as many people as possible.
Most people don’t give a fuck about your definition.
I’d wager most people hear “mass shooting” and think it’s some guy at a school or a mall with an AR-15 and that’s absolutely not what’s happening.
I don’t give a fuck what you’d wager?
The definition is evolving, for the better in my opinion. The below paper describes some thoughts in the realm which seek to develop a more inclusive definition.
Mass outcome or mass intent? A proposal for an intent-focused, no-minimum casualty count definition of public mass shooting incidents
First, researchers should expand their victim count inclusion criterion to gain valuable insight for public mass shooting prevention, intervention, and harm mitigation. The proposed definition of public mass shootings highlights mass intent instead of the completion of the shooting. Datasets with minimum victim counts are only including cases that occurred in the absence of mitigating situational factors, like fast intervention or strong situational crime prevention. There is always the potential for the environment and the situation to influence the incident outcome, and open-source scholars implementing a minimum casualty criterion might be systematically excluding cases characterized by mass intent and protective environments. Not only does this affect comparisons of environmental and mitigation factors, but it is an especially problematic source of selection bias for scholars aiming to understand the warning signs, behaviors, and psychosocial profiles of public mass shooting perpetrators.
Second, we advocate for scholars to use the current public mass shooting definition and completed, attempted, failed, and foiled outcome terminology. Critics may argue that our proposed definition more so aligns with an active shooter incident than a public mass shooting. However, we believe that it is beneficial to combine these two types of public gun violence involving random/symbolic victims into a single public mass shooting concept differentiated by outcomes. This will not only strengthen the rigor of empirical research, but also reduce public confusion. Currently, the mass media and general public are familiar with the phrases “public mass shooting” and “active shooting”, and understand both to be incidents of public, predatory gun violence committed by a highly motivated offender. We believe our definition, with its careful distinction between foiled, failed, attempted, and completed outcomes, could address some of the “mass confusion” (Fox & Levin, 2022) regarding public mass shootings.
Critics may argue that our proposal for an intent-focused, no minimum casualty count definition could contribute to journalistic abuse and further public confusion or concern. For comparison, after high-profile public mass shootings, media outlets often cite the number of mass shootings in America using the Gun Violence Archive and Mass Shooting Tracker data – which includes all mass shootings (i.e., felony and family), not just public mass shootings (Silva & Greene-Colozzi, 2019). The media thereby conflates all mass shootings with public mass shootings in the public consciousness. We do not want a consequence of this proposed public mass shooting definition to be the media’s inflation of the problem, given the increased number of incidents included in future research and datasets using this definition. To this end, we stress the importance of researchers using the completed public mass shooting terminology when referencing traditionally considered incidents - involving four or more fatalities – in research and during media interviews. In other words, like the usage of public mass shootings - which has recently become more popular in media usage - we are attempting to also incorporate completed public mass shootings into popular consciousness, to address public confusion and concerns.
Edit: I should add I have no beef with the GVA, and I don’t really think the flack it gets in this thread is warranted, but in this context the distinction I think can help. This is by no means GVA’s fault, terms evolve.
You ready to do comparisons to other developed countries yet or what?
Sure, give me another developed country with the equivalent of the 2nd Amendment.
Why lol?
Apples to Apples. You can’t compare what happens in other countries to what happens in the US, first because we have the 2nd Amendment and second, because we don’t have universal health care. :(
Oh, right good call, I guess we just have to complain about the way they count the bodies on the internet instead of actually trying to do anything about the thousands of dead children on the hands of the American people and politicians. Totally good call lol.
Compare Mexico and Brazil to the USA both have super strict gun laws but lack safety nets for their citizens…
Those are the 2 countries that you wanna be lumped in with?
The post soecifically is about counting shootings and not proposing solutions, if you want to talk solutions I do have some good ideas about that too.
First, people need to get it out of their heads that banning guns is the answer. It can’t be done because of the 2nd Amendment, and changing the 2nd Amendment is a political impossibility. You have to start by getting 290 votes in the House, the same body who needed 15 tries to get a simple 218 vote majority to pick their own leader. 290 on guns is out of reach.
So what DO we do? Well, how about a root cause analysis of each shooting? Let’s determine what systemic failures allowed each shooting to happen and make corrections so it doesn’t happen again.
Like that guy in Maine - Police knew FOR MONTHS that he was a potential danger. The military had warned them. He had psych evals backing it up. The cops decided he was too dangerous to engage with and did nothing. Even though Maine has a yellow flag law for weapon confiscation.
Apparently too dangerous to engage with so they just let him walk around in public? 🤔 Well, there’s your problem.
Shooting after shooting we find these people weren’t unknown to authorities, their lives were filled with more red flags than a May Day Parade, but nothing was done.
First, people need to get it out of their heads that banning guns is the answer.
Right, changing a law is impossible, and looking at other country’s examples is impossible because Americans are all born with itchy trigger fingers lol.
Mass shootings are so common in America that people are now saying a shooting with four injuries or deaths is too normal to count 😂 😭
No, I’m saying you need to differentiate crimes where someone went out intending to shoot a bunch of people, from crimes where a bunch of people ended up being shot through bad circumstances.
It’s the difference between 4 people dying in a car accident vs. someone intentionally driving over 4 people. It’s a different class of crime.
Are you under the impression that groups of four or more people are being shot by accident?
Absolutely, people get accidentally shot all the time.
If you have two angry groups of people shooting at each other I doubt they’re doing much in the way of good target discipline.
One shot is an accident. If you keep shooting it stops being an accident!
Americans are not okay folks!
Absolutely, people get accidentally shot all the time.
Not in my country 😂
I’m not sure I understand why intent matters (barring accidents, I suppose)?
Who cares what the intent was if guns were involved and people were hurt or died?
If a person is suffering from schizophrenia and thinks they are holding a magic wand, but actually shoot up a mall, they don’t have intent but the gun violence still resulted in death. Would that not be a mass shooting in your intent-based definition?
Intent matters because in a true mass shooting event, the mass shooting is the intent.
In an argument turned into a fight with multiple shooters, nobody went out that day looking to shoot people. It turned out that way, but that wasn’t their goal when they left the house.
Your explaining the difference but not explaining why it makes a difference.
To matters of gun regulation, of safety in public spaces, of trauma to the affected, of national reputation (pick any one, or all, or something else) why does the intent change anything?
I’ll start off: To have the intention to mass-murder purely for the sake of mass murder could be worth isolating and studying because that is a specific and extreme psychological problem worth solving. However, not all mass killings (with intent, for your sake) will have that psychological trigger at root. A religious or racial extremist, for example, is different than a disaffected teenager.
In this circumstance, intent is interesting if one is interested in those other things (psychological issues in American youth, the spread of religious and racial extremism), but ultimately are secondary issues when it comes to measuring gun violence. A mass stabbing by a racial extremist, or a teenager blowing up their high school with fertilizer would still need to be measured.
You are complaining about this organization’s yardstick, but I don’t hear a compelling alternative from you for this specific measure. You are saying they should be measuring a totally different thing, which is arguably irrelevant to this measure.
It’s like explaining the dufference between murder and manslaughter, it’s the degree of the crime that counts.
If you accept that there is a difference between shooting people as a crime of passion, and shooting people by a systemic hunting of other human beings, there doesn’t need to be a “but why is it different?”
It’s different because one, anyone could fall victim to given enough alcohol and anger, and the other requires someone to be fundamentally broken as a human being.
Are you saying that we should have Allowlists vs. Denylists for types of gun violence that are acceptable? This seems to be the fundamental premise upon which we disagree…
From my POV, intention is immaterial because there are no ‘good’ gun deaths, so splitting hairs has no values.
It sounds to me like you’re saying if you go to a mall and have a mass shooting in a totally sober state, that’s bad, but if you get hopped up on bath salts and then have a good old fashioned shotgun rampage, that’s ok and we shouldn’t count those ones…
I’m saying that the phrase “mass shooting” should only be applied to a situation where the shooting is the reason for the conflict, not an argument, robbery, drug crime, or gang crime.
Further, I’d argue that conflating them all together so you can pump up statistics and make people scared denigrates all the victions of actual mass shootings like Uvalde and Sandy Hook.
… Why are you saying and arguing those things, nobody cares about what you think about the way the statistics are counted when you can compare the data to other countries without guns and without any types of shooting events, mass or not.
Do you not understand what all of these different people are trying to explain to you?
I wonder if it has anything to do with inequality and the eroding of mainstreet America in favor of a winner-take-all economy that uses compound interest as a weapon?
No, it’s the voters who are wrong.
If it is, it’s stange that it has this result only in the US and not the rest of the world too
Fortunately homicides and most crime statistics are all down for 2023. Homicides are down significantly.
It’s the price of freedom /s
Lol. Nobody cares. They redefined mass shootings and it’s just been an intensive campaign over decades to get rid of the one right makes the USA different while not mentioning anything like per capita. I’m not American, just been watching the propaganda since before the internet
Citation, please
Thought so…
Googles right there. This isn’t college debate club. You can look it up, find out or just stay dumb.
The individual who makes the claim is responsible for burden of proof. In this case, you. If you can’t prove it, don’t claim it.
You can shove that theory directly up your ass.
Your intelligent comments have convinced me. Keep up the good work and Happy New Year.
