- cross-posted to:
- news@kbin.social
- cross-posted to:
- news@kbin.social
Homes, a maternity hospital, a shopping center, and a metro station were hit as part of the attacks. The attack may have been linked to the destruction of a Russian landing ship in Crimea.
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Russia should start claiming hamas are beneath those targets. Or don’t.
Also, 30 seems like a bonkers low number for missile strikes in urban areas. Like, every single hospital bombing is Gaza has reported more casualties.
Every time this happens, Ukraine should counter strike Moscow and St.Petersburg in exactly the same manner.
Murdering civilians is what Russia does. Ukraine achieves nothing by doing the same, yet will have plenty to lose by doing so. Why are you suggesting Ukraine stoop down to their level, which will likely result in the loss of support from its allies and legitimize Putin’s warmongering?
It’s the only thing that Russia will understand.
Not at all. If anything it would just create more support in Russia. You think Putin would care about a few civilians?
Hitting economic hot spots such as gas or military bases is way more effective
The war really can’t have more support than it current does in Russia. Pretty much the whole country is actively or passively supporting it. So this theory has already been soundly debunked. The Russian people care only about their own situation, and until they feel the results of this war, there will be no real opposition. Support can’t go up from here, but with some help it can go down.
… Do you honestly, sincerely believe that Putin cares if his people die? After everything he’s done to show otherwise?
Putin certainly doesn’t care, but the people do. Until this war comes home to them, they have no incentive to do anything about it. As you say, Putin will be there forever conducting war until the people stop him. Or until Ukraine can take Moscow. But the west won’t allow that.
Removed by mod
If Ukraine starts bombing them then they sure will have an incentive to do something.
Namely fight against Ukraine
When you bomb someone they blame the people bombing them.
Just ask Netanyahu how well he is getting rid of Hamas by bombing childrens hospitals. Hint: there is more Hamas now.
Support get any more solid in Russia, so leaving Putin to do as he wants with no real consequence to his supporters is not the way out of this. The only way out of this is if Putin is kicked out by force, and the only way for that to happen is for people to get fed up with this. We are already living in the worst case that you portray. Russians think this is a war that was started by NATO.
They are already universally supporting the war and fighting it. You are delusional to think otherwise. There can’t be more support than there is now. As long as supporting it means no consequences for most of the people in Moscow and St Petersburg, it will continue to grow. The only way for there to be any opposition is for Russians to feel the consequences because they care only about their own situation and nothing else.
Ukraine has an oligarch problem (with Putin at the head of it), not a Russia problem. Putin ultimately wants to exploit the resources of Ukraine unimpeded like he does in Russia - and he’s tried puppet governments, and the people fought back, so now he is trying force.
Ukraine killing Russian civilians (who are also victims of Putin’s greed) is not going to deter Putin. Putin cares about one person - himself - and everything else is only a means to enriching and protecting himself and his status. He only cares about Russian civilians to the extent that those civilians living is in his best interests.
So killing random Russian civilians is unlikely to achieve much except depriving some innocent family of some of its member. Targeting Putin and his property, oligarchs and generals is much more likely to make a real difference.
Why? What practical function does it serve?
@realitista@lemmy.world is just a sick person who wants to see innocent people die
Ukraine should stop supporting Hamas and hand them over to russia already.
Seems like they should really be negotiating a ceasefire and not dragging this out since even the US is ready to drop support for them and switch focus to full support for the genocide in Palestine.
Come on, let’s not deflect from whose to blame here. Russia is sending missiles where missiles don’t belong. When Russian missiles kill Ukrainian babies in a maternity hospital, that’s Russia’s fault. They knew full well what they were doing.
This war could have been over months ago or never even started if it weren’t for NATO encroachment and sabotaging peace talks. I’m not defending Russia here I am pointing out reality.
All this is because the west would not let eastern Ukraine exercise any self determination after couping the government in 2014.
Russian soldiers supporting Russian agitators invaded they did not coup. The referendum for separation from Russia was in the 90s and voted for. Anything after that is nonsense.
The referendum was a joke. I saw one piece of Russian television coverage where they were “counting” the ballots. They were holding up every paper and just saying “yes” “yes” “yes” (in Russian) without even looking at it. Also, how do you hold a fair referendum when it’s done at gun point? No one feels free to say no when the people conducting the poll could just open their ballot, see they voted no, and shoot them on the spot.
You mean the referendum just last year right. I meant the independence referendum of Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. This one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum. Here the whole of Ukraine voted for secession from Russia.
The referendum Russia held a referendum for Crimea in 2014 that was pre-deteemined, this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum.
And then Russia held one more with pre-deteemined outcome for the Donbas in 2022: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_annexation_referendums_in_Russian-occupied_Ukraine
Gotcha, thanks for the correction.
So here’s the problem with peace talks. What would Russia agree to? They currently occupy a massive chunk of pre-2014 Ukraine, something like a quarter of the country. If Ukraine agrees to that, it sends a signal to the Russian government that invading Ukraine pays. Russia already made a go at installing a puppet government in the initial 2022 invasion. Why should Ukraine trust it not to take the time following a peace agreement to regroup and invade again? And besides that, Ukraine’s never going to easily give up that much territory. Imagine that happening to your own country.
None of you NAFOs ever stop to consider the right of self-determination that belongs to the people who live in the eastern provinces.
It’s pretty clear that the people of Donbas, Crimea, etc, do not want to be ruled by this Ukrainian government.
A sustainable peace deal would be Ukraine agreeing to not cooperate or be supplied by NATO, agreeing to respect the rights of ethnic minorities, and giving up the provinces that do not want to be part of Ukraine.
Why is it worth sending tens or hundreds of thousands more to their deaths over that?
It’s an extremely reasonable peace and this is what they turned down at the start of the war when Boris Johnson derailed the initial peace effort. If the west wasn’t so war-thirsty then this war would have been over in a week, or wouldn’t have happened at all so cut out the pointless rhetoric about “we need to teach Putler a lesson” because you’re being blind to some basic facts about how this war could have and was attempted to be prevented when you recite that mantra.
“The right to self-determination” so long as that self determination is becoming Russian territory and nothing more.
Let’s not lie to ourselves that this is anything less than Russian Imperialism. It’s Russian vs Western Imperialism all the way down.
Edit: both Crimea and Donbas are currently under Russian control. In the case of Crimea it’s been almost 10 years now under Russian occupation. If you believe they will leave Russian control I would love to see why you believe so.
It’s pretty clear that the people of Donbas, Crimea, etc, do not want to be ruled by this Ukrainian government
Maybe if you listen to Russian propaganda only. I have both Russian and Ukrainian family and it really isn’t that simple.
Your “peace” would be stripping any self determination of a sovereign country to appease the imperialist nuclear power on their border. Even after they have shown not to be trustworthy.
Ukraine might as well just surrender the entirety of their country instead of being a foreign ruled satellite state like Belarus.
Slava Ukraini
Why should the people in those territories that pled for help against the coup government that was slaughtering them for 8 years not be allowed self determination?
And also as an anarchist I don’t believe in any legitimacy of either state, but if the people there feel safer under the protection of the Russian federation against the clearly Nazi captured Ukraine government, who am I to tell them what to do?
You talk of Russia trying to install a puppet government but the US SUCCESSFULLY installed a puppet government run by Nazis in 2014.
