While Education and Organizing is building the parts for a new engine the rest of the year.
Finn here. You guys can’t let Trump win. Gaza will be even more fucked than now. Ukraine will be fucked, which will lead to all of Europe being fucked. Your own country will also be more fucked than now. I hate Biden too, but Trump will be a total nightmare.
I would rather have a candidate everyone knows is bad than continue to slip into a worse and worse state
OP, you HAD to know that wasn’t going to go over well here.
Just wanted to remind everyone of the consequences when we let the greater evil win. Downvotes mean nothing to me.
That’s what Hillary said too.
You aren’t voting to change the world, you’re buying time so that there’s a world left for you to change.
no, we are voting on who should have power. I’m voting for cornel west.
I get the sentiment, but I don’t owe anyone a vote. Voting for the lesser of two evils is one thing when it’s someone useless like Obama, but the “good” option is balls deep in a genocide and destabilizing the world in his allegiance to another country. Not voting for the senile genocide guy is the least I can do.
I’ll be the first to say it sucks. Despite busting the railway unions his NLRB was doing good shit. It really really sucks.
Okay, but not voting for Biden is effectively a vote for Don Cheeto, and I guarantee you his Israel policy will make Biden look like a saint.
And if it makes you feel any better rumor has it that Biden is getting near the end of his rope trying to work with Israel. Last I heard he hasn’t talked to Netenyahu in over a month now after a particularly nasty phone call. Wouldn’t be surprised if his tune changes before the election and he starts attaching some pretty heavy strings to any further Israel aid.
In 2020, after Bernie was kneecapped by the dems, one of the state dems got on our organizing discord and said something to the effect of “sorry guys, but don’t forget to vote dems”. I voted Biden and got this. I got a party that refused to govern, who let a single rogue dem stop trillions of dollars worth of programs for what was it, a year?
I respectfully reject the framing that a non-vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. At literally any point, the dems could have chosen a different way. Hell, they could’ve just NOT eliminated the primary in all but name, but no. They’ve chosen the undemocratic, unproductive, detremental path we’re on. They refuse to own their fuckups, blaming them on conspiracy theories and an American populace that doesn’t understand the great things they’re doing. They don’t deserve votes and, I’m sorry, but I don’t owe them shit for what little they’ve done. We don’t know what comes of this in the end. Maybe Trump does win, maybe it’s so grotesque that it snaps people in the other direction (cope).
If they lose, it isn’t my just fault. It’s also theirs, mostly theirs. They’ve worked long and hard to repress the left. So I’ll be here, comfy in my bed on election day, completely repressed.
(And yeah, they are leaking that Biden is an old annoyed boy with Netanyahu. But that’s just because they know Biden’s committed path is so unbelievably unpopular, but also they don’t want to do anything about it, so they “leak” that our senile boy is thinking reeeeeally hard about all this. The US hold ALL the cards here, and every day this goes on is a day Biden is choosing not to do anything about it. So I don’t think him not talking to Bibi for a month while still offering unwavering support is a sign of progress)
Okay, I could write an essay response to that but I’ll keep it simple:
Is Biden better than Trump? Which leader will we be more likely to make positive changes under?
If you think they’re the same, you are a fool. If you think Biden is better but don’t vote for him, you are voting against your own interests. The spoiler effect basically means elections are more about which guy you don’t want to win rather than which guy you do.
I get it, I don’t like picking between bad and worse either. Doesn’t mean I’m not going to get out there and do my part to make sure worse doesn’t win.
nicely done
If Democrats had ever done anything to fight fascism instead of just enabling it literally for generations, we wouldn’t need to defend abortion.
Edit: also, of course a liberal uses a car analogy. How much more accurate could you get than to relate the democratic party to a thing most Americans are forced to use against their will, that kills their children and destroys their future… With an incredibly racist history and only slightly less racist present.
I am genuinely interested, how were cars brought about through a racist history?
Is it strictly through the creation of interstates that cut through major cities (mostly colored neighborhoods)? Or are there more nefarious reasons?
That’s one big part of it, though there are other examples. The deliberate building of overpasses too low for buses to go under, stopping poor black people from getting to the beach by bus, is another well-known example.
Yup https://www.aclu.org/news/racial-justice/racism-by-design-the-building-of-interstate-81 https://www.kqed.org/news/11943263/americas-highway-system-is-a-monument-to-environmental-racism-and-a-history-of-inequity https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/10/robert-moses-saga-racist-parkway-bridges/
There’s a whole two Behind the Bastards episodes on Robert Moses.
And none of this talks about how highways allowed building suburbia, and how that’s ultimately just an extension of manifest destiny.
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Writes response to meme full of contempt, says OP is beneath their contempt. Lmao okie
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So what am I beneath then? And i read alot actually, you just dont seem to be very concise.
3rd party 2024 and end the MIC’s illusion of choice
if Leftists had voted for Hillary in 2016 abortion would still be legal.
So, this really isn’t true in any meaningful way. People like to make a big deal out of the 12% of Bernie voters who went for Trump, but the majority of them identified as conservatives or centrists, while only 18% identified as liberal or left-leaning. Likewise, a lack of turnout doesn’t seem to be the issue; black voter turnout dropped, but not by an unexpected margin, and young voters (who tend to be more left-leaning) had very strong turnout. Finally, you could try to blame leftists who voted third-party, but analysis shows that even if every single Jill Stien voter had gone to Clinton, she still would have needed to win over 50% of Gary Johnson’s voters (who were obviously unlikely to consider themselves leftists).
You might be able to get the numbers to work if you say that if every leftist who stayed home OR voted third-party OR went to Trump voted for Clinton she’d have won, but that’s incredibly hard to prove and probably relies on some specious assumptions (for example, that every Green Party voter was a disgruntled Democrat). At that point, you’re pulling so many different groups together under a single banner that it’s basically meaningless. You might as well say if women had voted for Hillary abortion would be legal.
I voted for Stein in 2016. My state still went to Clinton by 16 points. If I’d lived in a state that was even remotely competitive, I would have held my nose and voted for Clinton.
It was very brave of you to admit that you voted for Jill Stein, I mean even if she had no chance to win, she’s still a pseudoscience promoter who believes we can use crystals as an alternative to heatlhcare and that vaccines cause autism.
Now do Hillary. When you live in a glass house…
I didn’t vote FOR Hilary, I voted AGAINST Trump, a third party vote doesn’t do that
I don’t back a third party strategy, but a third party vote is almost always a vote against the two parties.
It’s already been said, but if there had been a Left candidate, I wouldn’t have staid home. There was no real Left option. Trump wasn’t my fault. It was Hilary’s.
This is just another version of vote blue no matter who. It’s just as dumb as people who only vote Republican. Trump didn’t win that election, Hillary lost it.
Because people didn’t vote for her in some ridiculous form of protest
“ridiculous”
maybe don’t call people deplorables if you want people to like you or vote for you, how’s about that?
So there is no winning, there’s just lesser losing
For most part, this is by design.
Countries around the world tend to have two major parties: “red neoliberals” and “blue neoliberals”. Which is great if you’re a neoliberal because nobody is going to get in your way of your profits with things like environmental and worker protections.
But they didn’t build this managed democracy by murdering their opposition, they just showed up with class solidarity.
Dig into their lives and they all come from a handful of expensive schools and move in the same expensive circles. Politicians, corporate executives, lobbyists and media owners, all of them only ever a few steps from “went to school together” or “married to some powerful persons sister”.
They look out for one another. Sure, in public they have their little spats, but it’s just a pantomime as they jostle for market share. “Left-wing media” sells left-wing news to left wing people while the right wing does the same, both of them seeking to maximise profits. Journalism is a side effect at best.
The moment someone with actual power threatens actual change, watch them unite to undermine them and keep the profits of their little rich people club safe.
But how often does that happen? They usually run functionally unopposed. Good people just don’t want to be politicians or journalists now, especially when they know they’re going to be constantly attacked until they burn out or get killed.
The power is there for the taking but most people can’t be bothered even reading this post, let alone pledging their lives to an uphill battle.
Until that changes, the rich, greedy, self-serving scumbags will just keep winning by default.
If Obama had fought for his seat, Roe would still be the law. Dems never ever fight. They cry about how they can’t do anything. Even when they have the house, senate, and white house, they couldn’t do anything. Watch the excuses that follow this comment.
Neither capitalist party will ever help because they’re both avowed capitalists.
Vote dem, move right slowly. Vote GOP move right fast AF, with added racism, hatred, and Christo-fascist oppression as well.
But ultimately, NO capitalist party will ever fix anything in this shit two party system. Both parties get all their campaign donations from the same billionaires., and companies.
Vote dem, move right slowly. Vote GOP move right fast AF, with added racism, hatred, and Christo-fascist oppression as well.
It comes down to that the DNC/ DCCC and their voters are fundamentally not aligned in terms of incentives and priorities, and most discussant in places like this simply do not appreciate that. Whereas, the GOP and their voter base,are at least aligned, on their priorities and at least dubiously on incentives. This is demonstrated by their ability to provide for their voters once in office. You can and should hate what the priorities of the GOP are, however, you shouldn’t deny that they deliver for their voters when it comes time to do so. They make their voters priorities a priority once elected, and work their asses off to get these shitty, inhumane policies into place.
The DNC/DCCC have historically treated their voters as an inconvenience, in a very technocratic, “we’re the experts, we know better” fashion. Its a kind of anti-populism that was best expressed in the Hillary campaign, but also in how Obama ran his administration. To the DNC/DCCC, their voters are an inconvenience at best. Frankly, they’d probably prefer having a rightwing base, because they would better align with their actual prioritize. The result is that when elected, DCCC candidates don’t work or fight for the things they campaigned on, because they truly don’t think those things are priorities. This trickles down into a lack of results to their base, causing them to struggle because they consistently fail to deliver for the people that vote for them.
Edit because I wanted to highlight some things…
Observe the difference:
Hillary on the trail, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN6iwqthZrU
Hillary takes the position of “knowing better”, that the protesters need to basically sit down and shut up.
Bernie on the trail, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjt56Tdhhqk
Bernie gives them the mic and the time to get their message across.
In my lifetime, a dem only ever once gave me something to vote FOR, and I actively campaigned for him-Obama. And the first thing he did was give up on universal care and then even on public option. But he’s making millions by leveraging his presidency, so he’s a good little capitalist.
And the banks still appreciate him vailing them out while ficking us all and all our municipalities, etc.
Yeah, the corrupt as fuck supreme court made sure that billionaires would run the country.
And they have helped over and over to disable democracy and reduce the ability of citizens to affect change over monied interests who buy Thomas his motor home and other “gifts” (spelled bribes). And Scalia, and the others…
If liberals had voted for Bernie in 2016, the same would be true.
Depends on where in the process we’re talking about. OP is(to me) clearly talking about the general election. If Bernie had won the primaries, then yeah, that would be true, considering where his base mostly is.
If you don’t vote defensively, you are part of the problem. This is true whether you are in a multiparty system or the ‘American one’.
If you vote defensively, you are part of the problem. This is true whether you are in a multiparty system or the ‘American one’.
I get it. You love your favorite politicians winning by the margins instead of shifting American electoral politics left, as conservatives getting elected doesn’t make the populace magically more leftist.
I’ve read this about 4 times and I have no idea what it means
More people voting in the US → The political conversation shifts left as more progressive/leftists candidates are viable. A lot of elections in the US happen in small amount of votes, also known as narrow margins.
People not voting because not voting for the perfect candidate feels icky → As the conservative candidates are more favoured by people voting less, this shifts electoral politics right.
I would prefer to live in a world where Americans would vote between centre and left candidates, for instance, than centre and right (relatively speaking, of course) as they do today.
i never said don’t vote. I’m planning on voting for cornel west.
You do you.
