- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
The Palestinian Health Ministry said Israeli forces opened fire inside the wards of the Ibn Sina Hospital in the town of Jenin. The ministry condemned the raid and called on the international community to pressure Israel’s military to halt such operations in hospitals. A hospital spokesperson said there was no exchange of fire, indicating that it was a targeted killing.
Footage said to be security camera video from the hospital that circulated on social media showed about a dozen undercover forces, most of them armed, dressed as women with Muslim headscarves or hospital staff in scrubs or white doctor’s coats. One in a surgical mask carried a rifle in one arm and a folded wheelchair in the other. The forces were seen patting down one man who kneeled against a wall, his arms raised.
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Descriptively that might fit, but c’mon man what are they supposed to do, not seek medical attention?
Israel is fucked
One of the killed was partially paralyzed and receiving treatment. The other two were visiting him. One of them was his brother.
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You have to read a sentence two paragraphs below the paragraph about the three men killed. It states that:
“Hospital spokesperson Tawfiq al-Shobaki said … that Basel Ghazawi had been a patient since October, with partial paralysis.”
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All three were killed including a paralyzed patient.
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Just like the IDF just did to do an assassination?
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So it’s okay because it was a military operation?
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Oh no I ignored your deflection, which was already a deflection from what the IDF did
You answered his question with a question and you’re mad because you didn’t get an answer? lol
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Using a hospital to plan an attack is a war crime and the hospital loses its protection.
“Planning” these are people getting medical treatment. Like people do in hospitals.
So is pretending you’re a medic, I think they saw most of the west just shrugs it so they’ll keep warcrime-ing up until they get their goals done like it happened before.
“Hey wait! Only WE get to disguise ourselves as civilians. When YOU do it that’s a war crime!!”
hilarious
Literally yes. Welcome to guerilla warfare I guess.
Hypothetical BS is about as far from guerilla warfare as you can get
Dressing as a protected individual with the goal of mounting an attack is a war crime. Attacking a civilian facility without warning is also always a war crime.
You’ve convinced yourself retaliating to a war crime with a war crime is not a war crime, but youre wrong.
Article 18 of the geneva convention protects the hospital. Article 19 states clear steps to take in the event article 18 is being misrepresented. Either way this is a war crime.
The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given, naming, in all appropriate cases, a reasonable time limit, and after such warning has remained unheeded.
The fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants which have not yet been handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.
They were dressed as most people are in that part of the world. It’s not a war crime. You are overselling. Fact is, by everyone including Hamas agreement, only Hamas members were wounded or killed.
Doesn’t really matter how they were dressed, and there are videos of them clearly dressed as hospital staff.
Either way, attacking a hospital without warning is a crime, doesn’t matter who you are killing inside it. Again you’re trying to invent a scenario where it fits your narrative, while ignoring the geneva convention.
If you want to start arguing whats a war crime and what isn’t, you’re going to need the document that outlines what’s a war crime and what isn’t.
My my. We should let Hamas plan attacks in hospitals. I see.
2 dudes bringing a wounded guy to the hospital is now planning attacks?
Anyway, I’m glad to see you’re back to normal.
That would be three high-ranking Hamas members, including Muhammad Jalmana, Hamas spokesperson and commander in Jenin.
No, again you’re not reading the war crime document right.
You first warn the enemy youre going to fuckup this hospital if they don’t stop, and then you fuckup the hospital. It’s pretty simple. Any tactical disadvantage that may have is superceded by the protection of civilian life.
Again, you don’t need to abide by any of these, but then you can’t call things “war crimes”. These laws are literally what define war crimes, they aren’t meant to be fair.
If an enemy pilot is parachuting from a plane, you aren’t allowed to shoot him, which isn’t very fair to you. Yes he will likely land and regroup, and join some other force, but we all agreed you don’t shoot defenseless men hanging from a drape. The geneva convention is not to meant to be fair to the one’s waging the war and handing out orders.
“Hey wait! Only WE get to disguise ourselves as civilians. When YOU do it that’s a war crime!!”
So you agree that IDF is no different than Hamas?
Most people don’t randomly dress as medics and bring fake babies with them
Why are you lying to defend IDF terrorists?
Why are you lying to defend IDF terrorists?
It is the only way to avoid being called an antisemite on the internet anymore.
You didn’t condemn hamas in your comment so I am forced to assume you hate jews.
Whoopsie!
Who gives a fuck as long as your words are true? Down with the state of Israel
It is, it is actually literally used as an example in the very text of the articles of the conventions as an explicit example of what a war crime is. But you obviously don’t care. Lying to protect your own fragile ego is all that you seem to care about.
It’s not his own ego he’s trying to protect
It’s still a vast improvement over bombing the fuck out Gaza.
On the contrary, this is spill over into the West Bank, just like the spill over into the Lebanon, Jordan and Yemen. This is the situation getting worse, not better.
Did you care about how Hamas was dressed on October 7th last year?
Yes, and that was wrong too. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Did you care when the Israel army intentionally killed their own people under the Hannibal directive during the October 7th attack last year? Because that is also a war crime.
“Hey wait! Only WE get to disguise ourselves as civilians. When YOU do it that’s a war crime!!”
“OH and you killed yourselves anyway. Neener neener”
Do you condemn the IDF?
There really is no atrocity Israel could perpetrate that you wouldn’t excuse, is there?
Zionism = brainrot
If they can do these pinpoint operations, maybe they should stop bombing the fuck out of the entirety of Gaza?
Yeah but people in Gaza have guns and they fight back so that’s scary.
These were three unarmed men in a hospital so the brave IDF had the courage to break several laws of war by disguising as civilians and executing them.
I’ve seen this article in several places. This particular article states that at least one of the guys was armed with a pistol, while neglecting to detail the others. Nowhere did I read that there “were three unarmed men”. Do you have a source, please?
From the article:
A hospital spokesperson said there was no exchange of fire, indicating that it was a targeted killing.
The biggest tell is that they executed the dude lying on the hospital bed.
There is absolutely no way for NSFL: the hospital bed bullet hole to exist other than the IDF walking up to him point blank, putting the barrel on his temple and pulling the trigger.
Someone in a bed was shot, based on the blood stain, yes. “Point blank” and “barrel on his temple” are not supported by the article. I was simply asking for facts rather than speculation.
Did you click the picture?
The article says that the IDF which just broke a world record for “most amount of simultaneous war crimes” claimed one person had a weapon. This does not make it true.
I’m not believing Hamas without evidence and I sure as hell am not believing the IDF without evidence.
The evidence points to the IDF executing people that which did not shoot at them.
Yes the single pistol which they couldn’t say who it even belonged too is warented this response
The military did not provide details on how the three were killed. Its statement said Jalamneh was armed with a pistol, but made no mention of an exchange of fire.
Some guy named Jalamneh, according to the article.
Not in the ap or anywhere else.
The IDF’s statement was accompanied by a single photo of a handgun and two ammunition clips that it described as “the weapon carried by the terrorist,” without saying which of the men allegedly had the gun.
Sure, what’s a few more international laws broken? But my point was, if they were going to commit war crimes anyway, maybe they could have done it like this instead of killing 10,000 children.
But then those 10,000 children would still be alive. The point of Israel’s campaign is the eradication of Palestinean people from the Gaza strip without having to accommodate the political rights that the US constitution (without which Israel is glass) would have afforded them.
I know that and you know that and they know that but they won’t admit it.
Yeah but people in Gaza have guns and they fight back so that’s scary.
Yeah, weird that anyone would pick up a gun and point at a group of people that just bombed away generations of non-combatants, because they may just fear for their (and loved ones) lives at this point. They are now fueling the group that takes the place of Hamas by continuing to go scorched earth on all of Gaza.
Yeah, my first reaction was “at least it wasn’t civilians this time.” Whole thing is fucked up but it’s better than a 2,000 pound bomb on the hospital.
Who says it wasn’t civilians? Except for the IDF, which obviously can’t be trusted, that is.
Who says it wasn’t civilians?
Hamas and Islamic Jihad themselves, or are they too just Israeli hasbara?
“Hamas confirmed that Jalamneh was one of its members. The Jenin Brigade, which includes a number of Palestinian armed resistance groups, said in a statement that two of the three men were members of Islamic Jihad.”
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With targeted operations like this, they knew exactly who they were going after and where. That’s not a defense of Israel’s actions, just a statement that this isn’t the sort of thing they’d do to take out some random civilians.
In fact, much the opposite. This more closely resembles the sort of action Israel could have done from the beginning to take down Hamas without destroying Gaza. It would have deprived Hamas of their propaganda wins, would have kept the world firmly on Israel’s side, and would have been much more effective long-term.
Not more effective at letting them kill all the Palestinians which some of them have already admitted is what they want.
they knew exactly who they were going after and where
So it was targeted rather than random? Could be journalists and/or dissidents. They target those a LOT.
Unlikely to be Israeli dissidents in a Gaza hospital, and if they were Palestinian dissidents against Hamas, it wouldn’t make any sense to target them.
And if they were journalists, we’d already be hearing about it from their publishers, as we have with other journalist killings.
The most likely scenario is that they really were members of Hamas, but that just serves to highlight that the atrocities Netanyahu’s government has otherwise engaged in have been unnecessary.
This is running an operation in a controlled situation in an area where they already have security control/cooperation. This is three terrorists. Hamas in Gaza is in the 10s of thousands, with a tunnel network, boobytraps, and decades of preparation. It’s out of touch with reality to suggest that they are equivalent.
A better question if you ask me is that if they could carry out this operathis, why couldn’t they capture them and bring them to trial?
This is three terrorists.
One being a Hamas commander and the other two being members of Islamic Jihad, also a terrorist organization. At least one of them had a gun with him.
The IDF’s claim is that the three were involved in a transfer of weapons and were planning another Oct 7th style terrorist attack.
Now if we dismiss IDF’s claim as “propaganda”, sure one can say “boo Israel bad, perfidy!!” but Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists hiding as civilian patients in a hospital is pure moral bankruptcy no matter whether the above accusations are true or false, because they know fully well that their presence is endangering every other patient there.
That said, I’d also have preferred if the IDF detained them for questioning instead, they could have extract so much valuable intel on the hostages and the tunnels instead.
Also important to add: only the bedding got damaged and not a single civilian was harmed in the whole operation.
Yeah this is why I hold them in contempt. There could be Hamas members falling out of windows in Qatar, but hey want to purge Gaza instead.
If genocide ever comes to the US again then I believe that “storming a hospital” will certainly be part of it.
Why is the most moral army in the world committing war crimes? Does that make them more or less moral?
This is the West Bank. There’s no war there, only regular occupation and apartheid, but also genocide.
Just God’s chosen war criminals doing their thing 🙄
There must have been a meeting where someone said "let’s disguise as women and medics to assassinate people in a hospital…
And everyone said “great idea!”.
This is so cartoonishly stupid it’d be hillarious if it wasn’t so sad.
If it’s stupid and it works, then it’s not stupid.
If it’s stupid and
it worksyou’re breaking the Geneva convention, then it’snotstupid.
These people and whoever organized this needs to be be tried in the Hague. This is straight up a war crime.
Interestingly, the commentary on Article 85 of the Third Geneva Convention includes “the wearing of civilian clothing by members of the armed forces for purposes of disguise” as an example of a war crim
Bonus points because guess where I read that?
https://en.idi.org.il/media/6191/combatants_dressed_as_civilians.pdf
It seems like some things just don’t change.
Good god almighty, can you imagine any human being so corrupted and utterly immoral as to do anything like this. Don’t tell me ever AGAIN that israeli people are “good people.” Jews suck shit. I hope that the palestinians and Iranians drop a nuclear bomb on all of them SOON. Talk about monsters!!!
Dont call Zionists “Jews”.
Israel has nothing to do with Judaism.
Here’s the statement
The martyrs who were assassinated in #Jenin early this morning in Ibn Sina Hospital are:
- Mohammed Ayman Al-Ghazawi “Al-Hawawi,” one of the first members and a leader of Saraya Al-Quds - Jenin Brigade, pictured here with the founder of the Jenin Brigade, martyr Jamil Al-Amouri.
- Basil Ayman Al-Ghazawi, Mohammed Al-Ghazawi’s brother and also a fighter in the Jenin Brigade.
- Mohammed Jalamneh, a leader and fighter in Al-Qassam Brigades in Jenin.
Basil was wounded by the IOF airstrike during an invasion into Jenin on October 25th, 2023. For the last four months, he has been in Ibn Sina Hospital receiving treatment. The occupation forces assassinated him, his brother, and their friend Mohammed while they were visiting him.
Glory to the martyrs.
“Militants”
I agree I’d also have preferred if they used the more accurate word “terrorists” instead but yes, Hamas and Islamic Jihad confirmed it (source: AlJazeera article):
Hamas confirmed that Jalamneh was one of its members. The Jenin Brigade, which includes a number of Palestinian armed resistance groups, said in a statement that two of the three men were members of Islamic Jihad.
Ah, one was a random bystander, then.
Reading comprehension, Hamas and Islamic Jihad are two groups.
Come on Lemmy I know we love Palestine here but don’t downvote facts
probably ex-Redditors believing Karma is a thing here, they could also be some of the bots that someone created to downvote everything on my profile even not related at all to the Israel-Hamas war (and probably even the stuff they’d have agreed with if they read it)
Basil was injured by missile fragments following an Israeli drone attack on October 25 targeting a group of men near the Jenin camp cemetery and had been receiving treatment at the hospital for three months, according to Al Jazeera sources.
If he’s not doing active combat but lying in a hospital the word militant seems like a reach. Shooting IDF soldiers in hospitals wouldn’t constitute as shooting militants either.
Literally, this was the next sentence after the previous Lemming’s quote.
Oh, I see
Jeez, these guys really messed up. They didn’t kill all the babies in the hospital too. Their command will surely be disappointed.
So I’m gonna say the thing about “disguised as women” feels odd considering the Israeli military conscripts women in their ranks…
…wouldn’t it have been easier to just, you know, send actual women disguised as women?
“dressed as women with Muslim headscarves” was the actual description…
The IDF terrorists were wearing headscarves and handbags among other disguises to make themselves look like Palestinian civilians, not israeli women.
Remember when there was public debate about the morality of bombing Al-Shifa, because Hamas “100% has a command bunker bro, look we made a graphics render to prove it” and now… this? A hit squad storming into a hospital, and murdering three people.
Targeted killings don’t work to stop a movement, unless genocide is still on the table - you cannot kill away the Palestinian/Kurdish/Tigray/Tamil/etc problem. You can blunt a movement temporarily, but the mid level leaders invariably get replaced by more hardline extremists. That is how we ended up with Hamas/PIJ/Lions Den/etc after the Fedayeen were murdered/suppressed and that rage went somewhere… right into the arms of Iran.
Bro that was 36 hospitals ago
I made a post about this on /combatfootage (NSFL) containing video footage of the IDF raiding the hospital disguised as medics and civilians which this article talks about.
It also contains the aftermath with a bloody bullet holy in a hospital bed, showing that this was an execution by the IDF and not a gunfight with resistance.