I would be a thousand times happier in a world without consoles. Games are published everywhere, and “consoles” are just prepackaged PCs from Microsoft or Sony for people who do not want to build a PC themselves, and like their peripherals or something.
Having been predominantly a PC gamer for 30 years… PCs more hassle to update and maintain. When I finish work I want to sit on my sofa and play with as little inconvenience as possible.
Consoles fit nicely in a living room and are better for local multiplayer. This generation they were also cheaper than buying the equivalent PC hardware at launch.
When I finish work I want to sit on my sofa and play
Nowadays I work from home, and I agree - I don’t want to sit on my desk after a long day of sitting on my desk. Guess what though, I don’t have to, even when using a PC. My Steam Deck allows me to play everywhere, and with a single cable it connects to my TV and I’m playing.
But what if the game is too heavy for the Deck, or I want the ray tracing and 120 FPS of my expensive gaming PC? I just turn on my TV, I choose the Moonlight app, and I click play. That’s it. My computer automatically opens Steam Big Picture, everything is already updated, I grab my controller and I’m gaming. In fact, I would bet a beer or lunch that I can boot a game on my setup faster than a Xbox Series console, if we are both launching a game for the first time rather than resuming from suspend.
Ok but most of my games use Quick Resume so I am playing in under 15 seconds. To be honest the Switch has taken the crown for picking up where you left off since 2017.
I’ve used Moonlight but prefer not to stream really. Would be interested in how the latency is these days.
In the past I’d have said PC all the way but these days I’m glad both options exist. Biggest draw to the PC for me is mods. Would be tempted to make a dedicated SteamOS box next gen.
Ok but most of my games use Quick Resume so I am playing in under 15 seconds.
I just timed my setup, takes 35 seconds to boot my most recently played Steam game. So yes, double your time… But also less than a minute, less than what it takes me to take a glass of water or something.
Would be interested in how the latency is these days.
It varies a lot depending on the setup, some can be quite bad. Mine is got 8 ms of latency. Considering the Xbox Series controller operates at 20 ms of input latency, I don’t see that as a major issue.
Would be tempted to make a dedicated SteamOS box next gen.
There’s a loooot of fun to be had in building small form factor PCs nowadays. Unlike a decade ago, you can now find really nice cases, very low profile coolers, and GPU models that are very thermally efficient. Though again, with a cheap CAT6 cable, you can also just build a thin client to decode Moonlight for you and you won’t even know it’s streaming - things improved a lot recently.
Latency in Moonlight is extremely dependant on your setup. Most people are aware of having a good connection, preferably with both client and host using CAT6 cable. But you also need a good encoder and decoder.
For instance, using my GTX 1660 Super as the encoding GPU and my Snapdragon 888 Android phone as the decoding device, I had 14 Ms of latency.
Using my RTX 4060 Ti as the encoding GPU and my LG C1 HEVC decoder, the latency is 8 ms.
Using the same RTX GPU as the encoder, but my Steam Deck as the decoder, latency is 2 ms. Or in other words, so fast I can’t even notice it’s streaming and not native.
It’s definitely worth trying out, even at 8 ms on my TV this is faster than the delay a regular old Xbox controller would have, and the quality is impressively good.
And I meant that the majority of “PC maintenance” originates from Windows. Tasks like dust removal from cooling vents isn’t a daily thing (and applies to consoles just the same).
True, but if I’m spending thousands on a machine, I tend to want to be able to do other things on it so unfortunately Windows usually enters the equation.
Will consider a dedicated SteamOS box when I next refresh.
True, but if I’m spending thousands on a machine, I tend to want to be able to do other things on it so unfortunately Windows usually enters the equation.
Then it’s still Windows maintenance, not PC maintenance. For Intel and AMD GPUs, any regular convenience Linux distribution (like Fedora) works with negligible maintenance. It’s only those NVidia users or people who feel the urge to tweak everything steer themselves into maintenance hell.
The Steam Deck IS a PC though. You can install SteamOS on your computer if you wanted to.
For the purpose of the argument the other user was making, it is functionally similar enough to consoles that it doesn’t feel like a PC, unless you want it to. So really, it suits everyone.
Yes hence why I corrected to desktop. Sorry, just always used to using PC and desktop as interchangeable terms but see why you’d want to differentiate these days.
My point is I don’t want a handheld that I have to plug in. I prefer a desktop box so although the Deck is great, it doesn’t suit literally all use cases lol.
You are correct by the technical definition, I apologise for suggesting the Steam Deck as a PC lol.
What sort of things do you run on yours? I’d have thought it being a handheld it wouldn’t be that useful for anything I’d want to run on it as it wouldn’t be always on or connected.
My preference is a dedicated desktop box I can upgrade and potentially run some services like DNS, PiHole and some automated scripts on. I’d rather spend the money on that and keep using the Switch or cloud gaming when I’m on the go.
I would be a thousand times happier in a world without consoles. Games are published everywhere, and “consoles” are just prepackaged PCs from Microsoft or Sony for people who do not want to build a PC themselves
What do you think current PS and Xbox consoles are? They are all just PC hardware with each a custom OS as differentiating feature. A world in which everything has to run Windows is definitively much worse than the current state.
What do you think current PS and Xbox consoles are? They are all just PC hardware with each a custom OS
Your definition is missing the crucial aspect of forced exclusives and locked down platform.
A world in which everything has to run Windows
Ah yes, as we all know, any gaming PC needs to run Windows, specially if turned into a console form factor. The Steam Deck, famously, runs on Windows 10.
I agree in the context of a N64, a PlayStation 2, a Super Nintendo.
I’d be very surprised if playing in an Xbox Series X is somehow transformative for a child growing up today, compared to playing the same games on a PC. But I’m open to any argument explaining the difference.
That’s a odd stance to take. How would you be a thousand times happier if consoles didn’t exist?
Consoles still have their place in gaming and to think otherwise is somewhere ignorant. Just live the best of both worlds like the rest of us and don’t get so wound up!
Because a company wouldn’t get to decide on which hardware I get to play the software I paid for? It’s pretty obvious, really.
What other industries would you find this acceptable? Could a restaurant force you to only eat beans on their locations? Would Coca-Cola be able to demand you only drink their beverage on glass cups? What if you could only watch your favorite basketball team on Sony branded televisions?
I mean duh, I can make up any strawman I want and say “there’s a difference”.
No one said that you wanted to commit console genocide, just that your neighbors Xbox is none of your business and you really ought to take a chill pill and game how you please.
You decide where to (or not to) buy and play the games you want. Like I said there is no requirement to stick to 1 platform and you honestly sound so wound up by this opinion I’m astounded.
That is the most ridiculous straw man argument I’ve never heard
You live in a country you are invested in a country which is why leaving it is so difficult. You’re talking about just not buying a console, it’s the difference between altering a way of life that is being fine up until now versus not getting engaged in one in the first place.
I’d rather see consoles open up to being general purpose PCs, than not see consoles at all.
Valve got it right with the Steam Deck. I enjoy accessing my game library from SteamOS and using the Desktop Mode when I need to be productive.
If the Xbox had an option to boot into Windows, they’d be selling the Xbox like hot cakes. It would keep users invested in Windows as a platform rather than them moving to Linux or macOS. It’s such a waste of potential.
open up to being general purpose PCs, than not see consoles at all.
That’s what I said though. Looking at the reactions I got here, unpopular opinion, people prefer consoles to be entirely locked down, have exclusives and zero access to game files.
As always, it’s a trade-off between convenience and ability to tweak.
When it comes to gaming, the convenience slightly edges it for me at the mo. Enjoying Game Pass, play anywhere, Quick Resume and have made all the money back I spent on the Series X through Microsoft Rewards twice over.
I would be a thousand times happier in a world without consoles. Games are published everywhere, and “consoles” are just prepackaged PCs from Microsoft or Sony for people who do not want to build a PC themselves, and like their peripherals or something.
Having been predominantly a PC gamer for 30 years… PCs more hassle to update and maintain. When I finish work I want to sit on my sofa and play with as little inconvenience as possible.
Consoles fit nicely in a living room and are better for local multiplayer. This generation they were also cheaper than buying the equivalent PC hardware at launch.
Nowadays I work from home, and I agree - I don’t want to sit on my desk after a long day of sitting on my desk. Guess what though, I don’t have to, even when using a PC. My Steam Deck allows me to play everywhere, and with a single cable it connects to my TV and I’m playing.
But what if the game is too heavy for the Deck, or I want the ray tracing and 120 FPS of my expensive gaming PC? I just turn on my TV, I choose the Moonlight app, and I click play. That’s it. My computer automatically opens Steam Big Picture, everything is already updated, I grab my controller and I’m gaming. In fact, I would bet a beer or lunch that I can boot a game on my setup faster than a Xbox Series console, if we are both launching a game for the first time rather than resuming from suspend.
Ok but most of my games use Quick Resume so I am playing in under 15 seconds. To be honest the Switch has taken the crown for picking up where you left off since 2017.
I’ve used Moonlight but prefer not to stream really. Would be interested in how the latency is these days.
In the past I’d have said PC all the way but these days I’m glad both options exist. Biggest draw to the PC for me is mods. Would be tempted to make a dedicated SteamOS box next gen.
I just timed my setup, takes 35 seconds to boot my most recently played Steam game. So yes, double your time… But also less than a minute, less than what it takes me to take a glass of water or something.
It varies a lot depending on the setup, some can be quite bad. Mine is got 8 ms of latency. Considering the Xbox Series controller operates at 20 ms of input latency, I don’t see that as a major issue.
There’s a loooot of fun to be had in building small form factor PCs nowadays. Unlike a decade ago, you can now find really nice cases, very low profile coolers, and GPU models that are very thermally efficient. Though again, with a cheap CAT6 cable, you can also just build a thin client to decode Moonlight for you and you won’t even know it’s streaming - things improved a lot recently.
How is the latency in moonlight? Thinking about trying it
Latency in Moonlight is extremely dependant on your setup. Most people are aware of having a good connection, preferably with both client and host using CAT6 cable. But you also need a good encoder and decoder.
For instance, using my GTX 1660 Super as the encoding GPU and my Snapdragon 888 Android phone as the decoding device, I had 14 Ms of latency.
Using my RTX 4060 Ti as the encoding GPU and my LG C1 HEVC decoder, the latency is 8 ms.
Using the same RTX GPU as the encoder, but my Steam Deck as the decoder, latency is 2 ms. Or in other words, so fast I can’t even notice it’s streaming and not native.
It’s definitely worth trying out, even at 8 ms on my TV this is faster than the delay a regular old Xbox controller would have, and the quality is impressively good.
That’s Windows, not PCs in general. Steam Deck is an example of a PC system done right where the OS just works and tinkering is optional.
I mean desktop, wouldn’t really class the Deck as a PC.
Been tempted to get one but I use the Switch or cloud gaming on the go so have most bases covered already.
And I meant that the majority of “PC maintenance” originates from Windows. Tasks like dust removal from cooling vents isn’t a daily thing (and applies to consoles just the same).
True, but if I’m spending thousands on a machine, I tend to want to be able to do other things on it so unfortunately Windows usually enters the equation.
Will consider a dedicated SteamOS box when I next refresh.
Then it’s still Windows maintenance, not PC maintenance. For Intel and AMD GPUs, any regular convenience Linux distribution (like Fedora) works with negligible maintenance. It’s only those NVidia users or people who feel the urge to tweak everything steer themselves into maintenance hell.
Surely you still have to update drivers and OS?!
I dual boot Linux on my PC and run it on Raspberry Pis. Let’s not pretend it requires zero maintenance.
The Steam Deck IS a PC though. You can install SteamOS on your computer if you wanted to.
For the purpose of the argument the other user was making, it is functionally similar enough to consoles that it doesn’t feel like a PC, unless you want it to. So really, it suits everyone.
Yes hence why I corrected to desktop. Sorry, just always used to using PC and desktop as interchangeable terms but see why you’d want to differentiate these days.
My point is I don’t want a handheld that I have to plug in. I prefer a desktop box so although the Deck is great, it doesn’t suit literally all use cases lol.
Not to mention that it is literally a PC. It even has a full desktop environment mode running KDE.
You are correct by the technical definition, I apologise for suggesting the Steam Deck as a PC lol.
What sort of things do you run on yours? I’d have thought it being a handheld it wouldn’t be that useful for anything I’d want to run on it as it wouldn’t be always on or connected.
My preference is a dedicated desktop box I can upgrade and potentially run some services like DNS, PiHole and some automated scripts on. I’d rather spend the money on that and keep using the Switch or cloud gaming when I’m on the go.
What do you think current PS and Xbox consoles are? They are all just PC hardware with each a custom OS as differentiating feature. A world in which everything has to run Windows is definitively much worse than the current state.
Your definition is missing the crucial aspect of forced exclusives and locked down platform.
Ah yes, as we all know, any gaming PC needs to run Windows, specially if turned into a console form factor. The Steam Deck, famously, runs on Windows 10.
Yeah I probably would never have even gotten into gaming if it weren’t for consoles. PC games are fun, but gaming on a PC is not for everybody.
I agree in the context of a N64, a PlayStation 2, a Super Nintendo.
I’d be very surprised if playing in an Xbox Series X is somehow transformative for a child growing up today, compared to playing the same games on a PC. But I’m open to any argument explaining the difference.
That’s a odd stance to take. How would you be a thousand times happier if consoles didn’t exist?
Consoles still have their place in gaming and to think otherwise is somewhere ignorant. Just live the best of both worlds like the rest of us and don’t get so wound up!
Because a company wouldn’t get to decide on which hardware I get to play the software I paid for? It’s pretty obvious, really.
What other industries would you find this acceptable? Could a restaurant force you to only eat beans on their locations? Would Coca-Cola be able to demand you only drink their beverage on glass cups? What if you could only watch your favorite basketball team on Sony branded televisions?
Then don’t buy a console? How does your neighbor Bob playing on his Xbox series s affect you at all?
Did I say I was about to destroy every single console in existence, beat up my neighbors or something?
Or did I just say I’d prefer a world without consoles to begin with?
There’s a difference, and it’s not a hard one to spot.
I mean duh, I can make up any strawman I want and say “there’s a difference”.
No one said that you wanted to commit console genocide, just that your neighbors Xbox is none of your business and you really ought to take a chill pill and game how you please.
I’m about to blow your mind…
You get to decide.
You decide where to (or not to) buy and play the games you want. Like I said there is no requirement to stick to 1 platform and you honestly sound so wound up by this opinion I’m astounded.
lol “you get to decide not to buy the game!” is an argument just like “if you don’t like this political decision, just leave!” is an argument.
Technically yes, yet so dumb and shallow it won’t get your very far.
That is the most ridiculous straw man argument I’ve never heard
You live in a country you are invested in a country which is why leaving it is so difficult. You’re talking about just not buying a console, it’s the difference between altering a way of life that is being fine up until now versus not getting engaged in one in the first place.
It’s completely different.
We’re talking video games here. Nothing else.
Oh thanks for informing me, I was under the impression this conversation was about the conflicts regarding taxes on tea exports.
Or perhaps the conversation was about videogames, but analogies can be used to explain flaws in arguments regardless of direct context.
Guess we will never know which option is true!
I’d rather see consoles open up to being general purpose PCs, than not see consoles at all.
Valve got it right with the Steam Deck. I enjoy accessing my game library from SteamOS and using the Desktop Mode when I need to be productive.
If the Xbox had an option to boot into Windows, they’d be selling the Xbox like hot cakes. It would keep users invested in Windows as a platform rather than them moving to Linux or macOS. It’s such a waste of potential.
They’re far too stupid to realize that.
That’s what I said though. Looking at the reactions I got here, unpopular opinion, people prefer consoles to be entirely locked down, have exclusives and zero access to game files.
As always, it’s a trade-off between convenience and ability to tweak.
When it comes to gaming, the convenience slightly edges it for me at the mo. Enjoying Game Pass, play anywhere, Quick Resume and have made all the money back I spent on the Series X through Microsoft Rewards twice over.
Next upgrade will be a tough call though.