• whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    There’s a little trick my parents passed down to me whenever I asked them what a word meant or how to do something when I was a kid, “look it up yourself”. Look up the word in the dictionary, learn how to learn how to do things, and then when you get stuck ask for help graciously. Self reliance isn’t something that just happens, it takes effort and often failure.

    • Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      It’s a great learning technique. My family and girlfriend always say I’m so smart cause I know a lot. I don’t think I’m that smart I just always take that extra step to Google something if I have any questions. Doesn’t matter how small or unimportant it may seem, you never know what sort of rabbit hole you’ll fall down and how much you’ll learn because of it.

  • daltotron@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    You know so for this specific instance I kind of find it to be, dumb, right, really stupid, but obviously this guy is trolling, and I think in this thread I’ve even seen an .exe that someone compiled get posted, so I guess, good things come to those who shitpost and bitch, or whatever.

    Also glad this post is (hopefully) dead, so I can write my reflections that nobody else is gonna realistically read.

    More broadly, though, I’ve seen a lot of technically minded linux using system admin types, nerds, basically, right, that just kind of shit relentlessly on anyone who doesn’t know as much as them. Which sucks, for sure, it’s really annoying. It gives me the same vibe as when people talk about how everyone who moves to their country should speak the language, and understand every facet of the culture and every custom, because they’re a “guest”. I mean, yeah, sure, that’s partially true I suppose, and certainly it would help if that were the case, to smooth the transition, right, but it’s also really stupid to expect everyone to acclimate immediately. There are external factors that drive someone to settle in a country, right, could be asylum, could be, socioeconomic asylum. Those are your two options, basically. It’s not really like these people don’t give anything back, either, since they provide high amounts of economic value, they import their culture which can be beneficial, shit like that. It would just straight up make more sense to accommodate them more, to be nicer to them, because it would make it easier for them to acclimate. You will statistically have better outcomes if you choose that path, compared to just kind of, holding your nose up at them, and demanding everything from them and giving nothing in return.

    Not the best metaphor, I’ll admit, comparing a country to the collection of people who might be thought of as “tech literate”, right, obviously it’s apples to oranges. Nonetheless, I’ve seen a very kind of, elitist attitude, directed towards new people, from a group of people that should welcome anyone who seeks to understand their technology better, anyone who seeks more tech literacy. I dunno, I just feel like I’ve seen enough “well justified” stack overflow asshole responses that are like “uhhh I GUESS I’ll tell you about this but you should’ve googled it” when google was what brought up the thread. Maybe that’s more on google, though, I dunno. It gives me redditor vibes, like, NTA reddit vibes, where people kind of take any morally righteous position they can, in order to justify them acting like a twatsack.

    It’s also, practically, a strange mentality to take, because none of this is really going to prevent or discourage people from making stupid comments, right. Gatekeeping is the fucking stupidest idea I’ve ever really heard from the internet, because it just doesn’t work. It just creates people who want to spit back at you, and that’s obviously going to work itself into a kind of positive feedback loop where you’re going to get flooded with more shit in return. It is energy that would be better spent making more accessible software, if such a thing is possible in these circumstances.

    I dunno, at large, it is kind of these mentalities that make me think, it’s not really any wonder why FOSS software, despite being more naturally suited to computer architecture, compared to other shit, isn’t really as used as it should be. It’s mostly just a practical concern, for people. If people have to put in 30 minutes to learn something, then that’s half an hour, and if they’re getting paid federal minimum wage in the states, you could charge them like three bucks and it would probably be worth their time. It’s against the ideal, right, to charge for it, obviously it’s not really going to be a guaranteed ROI, also you’re maybe going to see a smaller userbase, because lots of people would rather pay free than cheap by a staggering proportion, and also you really can’t charge for it, and still have your software remain open source, lest someone else just copies it and spreads it.

    So that all sucks, in practical terms, but sort of my broader point is that the ideological position of FOSS basically can’t compete with your stupid free market charge for money for software kind of shit. We get windows, we get mac, because the software, and the philosophies that built them, were more naturally suited to the socioeconomic environment they all propagated in. They are “more practical”, both in terms of your end user’s uses, but also in terms of how they spread. It’s cynical. It is our old friend of naive techno-optimism, rearing it’s ugly head once again. It also makes me think, you know, that what entails FOSS, are philosophical positions that are naturally kind of more suited to a smaller developer, that can’t build in anti-crack measures, or realistically charge anonymous internet denizens for copyright infringement, and thus, can’t really charge money for software, especially from what’s already going to be an extremely limited userbase. It’s also to their advantage to maybe try to seek help from their limited install base and bolster their numbers that way. I dunno. It strikes me the same way as non-cyberspace attempts at anarchism, right, where it just doesn’t, as quickly, as cynically, secure the means of resistance, and ends up constantly getting crushed by larger predators of ideology.

    I dunno man, I just wish people would stop being mean to each other on the internet. Causes me too much psychic damage.

    • Topipolous@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      Great write up, really thanks for sharing your thoughts, couldn’t agree more to this!

    • oldfart@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Great, so not going an extra mile in your hobby projects is gatekeeping now

    • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Gatekeeping actually does work. You train people how to treat you. If you accept people behaving ignorantly, wasting other people’s time, taking zero effort to help themselves, being rude then they will continually do so. For instance see the folks who think the open source community is a free call center full of support agents instead of other users. If they get a negative response to being an asshole they on average don’t stick around or they change their tack. If supported and babied they will continue their behavior. The general public is on average not entirely irrational. Most wont keep touching the stove. More generally open source communities are rarely getting per user revenue. More realistically every user who doesn’t know anything and needs their hand held because they aren’t actually interested in learning anything is an unrecoverable cost which could sap the energy of the community and destroy it.

      Consumers are used to a customer/company relationship

  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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    7 months ago

    I kind of agree with the Reddit post. Like how hard is it to just provide a simple download button? Obviously if it’s an open source project and still in development there’s not a lot of utility in doing that, but there are situations where there will be a plug-in for a program and it’s been distributed via github.

    And it’s got a terrible UI, I can never remember where the download zip button is, because it’s not obvious.

    • janAkali@lemmy.one
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      7 months ago

      Github is not a distribution platform it was never meant to be one. It’s a developer platform for code distribution and collaboration. And UI is designed around that.

      A lot of projects use it as a distribution platform, but they’re wrong - it’s always better to have a web page with simple download button for casual “ordinary” people.

      But, this case is special: this mostly harmless tool is designed and almost exclusively used to doxx / hack people =|. So, it’s not in developers interest to make it widely available and easy to install.

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        You’re full of contradictions. “It’s not a distribution platform it’s another kind of distribution platform.” Nevermind the fact that it has a “releases” feature designed to provide a somewhat easy way to distribute software however the dev wants to use it.

        Then “it’s a mostly harmless script designed to commit crimes.” Do you know what harmless means?

        • janAkali@lemmy.one
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          7 months ago

          Sorry, I meant to write that Github is not a software distribution, but a code distribution platform.

          And ‘mostly harmless’ as in it’s not inherently malicious - you can use it for harmless stuff. It’s merely a tool.

          • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Also I don’t really follow how it makes sense that the UI should be bad if they only meant for it to be used with code. Developers are humans too, and the GitHub UI is not great. I use it all the time and still get confused by some of the dumb UI decisions they have made.

    • magic_lobster_party@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      Because making proper executables working on all machines is just extra maintenance work. They probably just wanted to code something and share it to the world without that extra headache.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        7 months ago

        Unless you’re running it very low level code no it’s not.

        If it’s anything that is in c++ or java You’re basically making me copy paste your code into a compiler and then pressing compile the end result will be identical to the one you would have given me.

        • magic_lobster_party@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          It’s not if you want to compile for Windows, Linux and Mac at the same time, with x86, x64 and ARM support. Cross compiling can often be a big annoyance to set up.

          And this is a Python project. Making stand alone executables for Python projects is rare.

          • PoolloverNathan@programming.dev
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            7 months ago

            GitHub public repositories get free build runners for all of those except ARM and aren’t that hard to set up (for compiled languages of course).

    • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      You are arguing with elitism, it will never go anywhere and they will never feel ashamed.

      Honestly, 99% of the reason the world is still locked in closed source software ecosystems is that fucking elitist rectal-cranial inversionist devs that want to make it as hard as possible for a non-dev to use their tools.

      ‘You aren’t entitled to an easy install’ is the mantra they whisper in their hearts as they push code.

      • Whelks_chance@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        What? It’s python code, not in a binary, and you’re complaining about things being closed source?

        Also if you want it compiled and provided to you, feel free to pay someone to provide that service.

        The only barrier here is not wanting to pay AND not wanting to learn or read instructions.

        Life is going to be pretty tricky with that mentality.

        • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          ^This attitude is exactly what crippled open source, good job playing into Apple and Microshit’s hands.

          The more effort a user has to put in to use a tool, especially when other, easier and functional tools exist, the less likely that user is going to adopt that tool as part of their daily use.

          The only barrier here is not wanting to pay AND not wanting to learn or read instructions.

          This is a false dichotomy, there are plenty of free and good open source tools that don’t need 20 hours of manual plundering to install.

          The Gimp is a great example of this, super easy to install right out the box for even non-technical people, is open source, doesn’t cost a cent.

          The simple truth is devs that share your attitude are too lazy to complete their projects so they get it to 80% and expect the end user to finish the rest.

          Do you think that is winning you any adherents? But please, keep proving my claims of linux elitism so blatantly, it makes my job so much easier.

          • cm0002@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            The Gimp is a great example of this, super easy to install right out the box for even non-technical people, is open source, doesn’t cost a cent.

            No, it’s not, GIMP has funding, resources and a fucking company behind it lmao and on top of that it’s intended to be an end-user tool

            Not all open source projects are the same, many are just things people work on in their free time and are kind enough to share, many aren’t intended (like this one) for end users at all. They’re meant for people who know what they’re doing (which it’s quite evident you don’t)

            If you want to know who is actually harming the open source community look in a mirror, it’s people like you who whine and bitch about “Meah InstAllers MeH uSEr ExpErIenCe” that makes devs not want to contribute

            • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              No, it’s not, GIMP has funding,

              That contradicts zero statements I have made, it is still super easy to install, doesn’t cost the user a cent, and is open source.

              Maybe the world would be a better place of more open source projects had funding.

              that makes devs not want to contribute

              If money is so important to them then maybe they should choose not to be open source devs?

              If you cannot adhere to the philosophy then don’t complain when people call you out on it.

              it’s people like you

              It’s people like me that have chosen not to go the open source route due to the difficulty, that is our choice and is the worldwide average choice as hardly anyone ever bothers to deal with all the byzantine bullshit that arrogant elitists like yourself are just giddy over expressing.

              Open Source has failed its original goals due to elitist devs putting up artificial hurdles to general adoption, you don’t get to complain about adoption if you actively narrow your market segment to people who have the time and experience to fix your broken shit before they use it.

              • cm0002@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Lmao, just because something is open source doesn’t mean the devs are expecting a return. You talk about market segments, adoption rates and funding like that’s the only goal someone has for sharing their project

                You expect someone who put something on GitHub, for free, for everyone, worked on with their spare time because they had a passion for it to have it 100% ready to ship to production complete with an installer and a GUI? Nah, you’re the elitist asshole, you should order more than one mirror.

                That contradicts zero statements I have made, it is still super easy to install, doesn’t cost the user a cent, and is open source

                Yes it does, they have the funding and resources to pay someone to handle the easy installer and user experience, they have teams of people to handle the issues.

                If money is so important to them then maybe they should choose not to be open source devs?

                If you cannot adhere to the philosophy then don’t complain when people call you out on it.

                LMFAO it’s not about the money, it’s time and effort, for one or 2 people maintaining a project they shared and work on in their free time that’s in short supply.

                If you have your panties in such a twist over “User Experience” it’s open source, make your own damn contributions. Contribute an installer then, contribute some infrastructure for a website to have your fancy download button. You talk of open source philosophy, but then instead of contributing to making a project’s user experience better, you just bitch about it instead.

                • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  You talk about market segments, adoption rates and funding like that’s the only goal someone has for sharing their project

                  No I didn’t but the fact you assumed that is telling. You aren’t arguing with me, you are arguing with a mental construct of me with the worst possible arguments. This is bad faith debate and I’m not going to tolerate it much longer.

                  Nah, you’re the elitist asshole, you should order more than one mirror.

                  Firstly, fuck you, and secondly this is the exact reason open source has lost the software wars. Most of humanity has chosen closed source due to convenience and availability. If open source can’t compete with this, it isn’t the fault of the consumer.

                  Your attitude is rancid and is the main reason open source will never be more than a novelty for most people.

                  You are like Todd Howard complaining how people are ‘playing starfield wrong’ and insisting that it is a super great game when the vast majority of players disagree. No amount of Todd insulting his userbase is going to make Starfield a good game.

                  Yes it does, they have the funding and resources to pay someone to handle the easy installer and user experience, they have teams of people to handle the issues.

                  No it doesn’t, my stipulations were ‘free to the user, easy to install, and open source’. I’m not going to repeat myself a third time.

                  You are intellectually dishonest and I’m frankly done and blocking you after this reply.

                  LMFAO it’s not about the money, it’s time and effort, for one or 2 people maintaining a project they shared and work on in their free time that’s in short supply.

                  Ok then maybe we need to make a world where good devs can program all they want for open source projects without having to keep a main job to pay for their needs.

                  I’d gladly donate to a foundation who’s purpose is to provide the means for living to teams of dedicated and non-elitist devs.

                  If you have your panties in such a twist

                  Eat every inch of my ass and beg for seconds, grease stain.

          • 520@kbin.social
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            7 months ago

            This is not a standard tool. This is an offensive security (aka hacking tool).

            The hacking community does not want people like the one in the post.

              • 520@kbin.social
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                7 months ago

                There is one core difference. In regular open source projects, lack of layman accessibility is considered a bug.

                For offensive security tools such as in OP’s post, it simply isn’t a consideration because the audience for these tools are not laymen, therefore they aren’t designed with laymen in mind.

                In fact there’s something of an incentive to keep laymen out because people just hitting random buttons without serious consideration of what they are doing can land people in jail.

                They’re designed with the offensive security community in mind, of which even the most rookie members think nothing of firing up terminal and entering some nifty commands.

          • daltotron@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            The more effort a user has to put in to use a tool, especially when other, easier and functional tools exist, the less likely that user is going to adopt that tool as part of their daily use.

            The catch here is that oftentimes, for the use cases that people get elitist about, there are no other, easier, or functional tools, which is part of why it’s so frustrating to encounter elitist mindsets around this stuff. I don’t even really particularly care about not having .exes or what have you, or having to compile a python script, right, I mostly just kind of find it frustrating when documentation for these kinds of projects is extremely lacking and unclear as to what you’re supposed to do. Shit takes 3 minutes on the dev’s side, to curb like 20 or so more questions clogging up issue reporting and, realistically, what should be the avenues of contact you’re gonna want to be using for bug reports. It’s literally worse for the dev not to at the very least make the documentation a little better than it usually is. Sometimes that scales up to even be, it would be better for the dev to actually make an exe because that would be more idiot proof, and they would also get less shitty complaints.

            Basically the argument I’m making is that many devs kind of encounter a deadlock where they get really frustrated at giving out something for free, then encountering complaints about inaccessibility, and then they start fighting ghosts when people ask them questions in lacking documentation. Most of these cases, if they’d put in slightly more effort from the start, they would’ve solved themselves a more massive headache in the long run. Lots of these, you don’t even really have to put in a ton of extra effort, such is the upside of open source, you can just solve the documentation afterwards when someone comes in with a question the first time and then you take that feedback and actually append it to your documentation instead of just getting frustrated that everyone else is too stupid.

            • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I’m glad to finally see someone in this thread talking rationally about this. Thank you.

              many devs kind of encounter a deadlock where they get really frustrated at giving out something for free,

              I get that, the world is expensive, but being profit motivated does not align with the open source ethos. I have no problems with devs choosing to go closed source and charging for their products, but 90% of open source projects never get to the point of being solid enough to be a paid product regarding ease of install and use.

              • daltotron@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                I think it’s less that they want to be paid, and more that they just are doing something that they think is kind of like, an altruistic act (and it is, probably, as long as they’re not maybe encouraging stagnation or inhabiting the space so that another dev won’t take a crack at it). So it’s frustrating to be doing this altruistic, somewhat thankless act, and then get bitched at for it, even if you’re getting bitched at because of your own stupidity, or lack of forethought, or insular presumption that everyone else knows how to do what you do. I empathize with them, and I see their problem, but I also understand why people are bitching, instead of just being like “the people who are bitching suck and are wrong” how people tend to do, which just leads to a positive feedback loop where everyone is constantly pissed off.

                • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Look I did helpdesk for a decade, I know for a fact what it feels like to be bitched at by people that you try to help. What I’m saying is that open source projects need big teams and people who know how to organize them, and there should be a foundation with the sole purpose of rounding up donations to fund those teams working on worthwhile projects.

                  And if some exist now point me in their direction and I will gladly donate.

                  If It takes me less than 10 mins to install their software.

          • magic_lobster_party@kbin.social
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            7 months ago

            It’s not about elitism. It’s because most developers don’t want to spend that time on the extra maintenance and QA to ensure it’s working flawlessly for the end user.

            Most FOSS are just things people initially wanted for themselves, so they developed it in their spare time. Then they thought it might be neat to share the code in case someone else might find use in it, so they uploaded their work to GitHub.

            If you want an exe you can always contribute to the project, or at least make a fork.

          • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            Many open source devs don’t care about the quantity of users as much as the quality. Good users, who can spot and report bugs, are worth their weight in gold. Users who can’t do this may be great humans in their own fields, but aren’t really that useful for the project.

            This is a false dichotomy, there are plenty of free and good open source tools that don’t need 20 hours of manual plundering to install.

            Right, and they do it because they have more funding, time and/or manpower. Not all teams have these.

            • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Then it isn’t open source, available to all.

              ‘I only want smart users who don’t complain’ is the most arrogant attitude a dev can have.

              Right, and they do it because they have more funding, time and/or manpower. Not all teams have these.

              Ok then maybe more open source projects should get funding.

              • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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                7 months ago

                Open source means you are allowed to see the source code, and to modify and/or share it. No warranty or support is implied, and some software explicitly disclaim any such responsibility.

                ‘I only want smart users who don’t complain’ is the most arrogant attitude a dev can have.

                I don’t think any dev wants users who don’t complain. But when their time is limited, they want users who will submit useful complaints.

                Also, maybe the situation will become clearer if you ask yourself why open source devs share their code for free. They aren’t (usually) getting paid to do it. They are giving you code they probably wrote for their own personal use, in the hope that you might find and report issues with it, and thus help them make their own copy better. So if you aren’t good enough to do that, well, they might help you out of the goodness of their heart, but you really aren’t entitled to their help.

                Ok then maybe more open source projects should get funding.

                I mean, yes?

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            You don’t know what you’re talking about, simple as.

            This is a python tool. It will never be compiled for you. Ever. It’s literally not compiled. Get over it.

            This post was perfectly made to trigger all the morons who don’t know the first thing about coding… getting upset you’re looking at source code… in a repository…

            If you’re upset at seeing source code, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE REPO!!

            • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Listen son, I was coding and compiling C++ for MUDs back in the early 90s and some of my python code is still being used back at my university and I graduated before smartphones.

              Your assumption of incompetence is just another symptom of the elitist rot that small minded devs constantly wear.

              • cm0002@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                I was coding and compiling C++ for MUDs back in the early 90s and some of my python code is still being used back at my university and I graduated before smartphones.

                Oh I get it now, you’re just an old fart with outdated knowledge who can’t be bothered to keep up with “all this dag nabbit fancy tech, back in MY day” blah blah blah, go back to yelling at the cloud

                • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  That’s not how getting older works. At all. Especially in tech.

                  You know one of the funniest things about people insulting me over my age? If everything goes well for you, you’ll be here one day too. And it’s going to be a lot sooner than you think.

                  And then you can have Gen Beta insult you for being an old fogie tied to the tablet ecosystem when brain interfaces are the norm.

                  I hope you remember this moment when it happens to you, but you likely won’t.

      • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        Reading technical documentation is a skill, and is hard when you don’t understand half the technical jargon (it doesn’t help that professionals, when told to write documentation “concisely, precisely, and exhaustively” rarely manage to do all three, if any).

        However ChatGPT is now a thing and dumbing down technical jargon into plain English is one of the tasks it’s actually designed for. Literally no-one who doesn’t have the cognitive ability or patience to ask ChatGPT help with installing Sherlock should be using OSINT tools.

  • Dasnap@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Creates something free to use and ask for nothing in return

    People complain because they have to chmod +x a Shell file

    A tale as old as the internet.

  • dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Okay but I hate released projects that force you to compile it into your target platform if it’s something simple like a file converter or a save file editor and the process involves lots of work.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    That last line isn’t too far off. The “script kiddies” are the ones sideloading malware into their Apple devices thinking they’re downloading something like “see if that hot chick looked at your Facebook profile” apps.

  • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I hate when the installation takes like 20 steps. Never heard of an installation script and a interactive installation? I’ve installed far more complex software, that gets this but your shitty programm can’t do it?

    And they wonder why nearly nobody uses Linux. In Windows nearly all software comes as an executable. Imagine offering a software under windows, where you need to do the setup manually in a shell.

    • Mojave@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It’s literally three steps, not 20 you overdramatic cringelord

      It’s just downloading the shit, navigate to the shit, run the shit

      clone the repo

      $ git clone https://github.com/sherlock-project/sherlock.git

      change the working directory to sherlock

      $ cd sherlock

      install the requirements

      $ python3 -m pip install -r requirements.txt

      If you’re too retarded to handle that then just suffer, for real

      • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? I’m not speaking of this project but in general. Other projects where they does this, not this one.

    • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Never heard of an installation script and a interactive installation?

      Making an installation script that will work for all, or even most, OSs and processor architectures can be a lot of work. Are you paying the devs to do it?

      I’ve installed far more complex software, that gets this but your shitty programm can’t do it?

      Because the more complex software is usually run by a bigger team, and has more funding.

      In Windows nearly all software comes as an executable.

      And that’s a problem, because the devs either have to make multiple versions - one for each OS version, processor architecture, dependency, feature set, etc. - or compromise and make a one size fits none solution. In contrast, if you provide the user the source code, they can ask their machine to compile it for their OS and architecture, including just the parts they want, without taking up unnecessary disk space or memory.

      Imagine offering a software under windows, where you need to do the setup manually in a shell.

      You mean, like the vast majority of scientific or technological software? A lot of it is written on python too, just like this package.

      • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Making an installation script that will work for all, or even most, OSs and processor architectures can be a lot of work. Are you paying the devs to do it?

        I do pay for my software, even when its free, when I like the software and the devs. But if the devs/community think they are something better, then no. I had some where they refused a install script and said something along the lines that if you can’t get it running with the docs, you shouldn’t host the software. Yeah I don’t like such devs. Also when they have enough time to write a documentation, they have enough time to write a script. I even had one project, where the dev refused a correction in the docs, even though it was faulty.

        Also you don’t need to write a script for every system. You start with the most used ones. I mean just for testing I would get insane, when I have to repeat some steps over and over. At our company I do write scripts for some things that drive me insane. First I got told, it works this way, this costs too much time to do and it doesn’t sell more software. I just did it and now they thank me for that. Even just an internal tool that I wrote for myself, after I drove insane doing stuff manually, now also customers get.

        I don’t speak about software where you pull via git, install some prerequisites and run a script. Not shipping prerequisites can have a legal reason and git pull is just a different way of downloading. It also works to download the tagged source code, instead of cloning but this requires more explanation to less skilled users.

        Also with docker I came across some projects where they really butchered it. A docker compose file is my preferred way. I have my file + .env and it works for most containers I come across. It looks clean and feels clean. Running one command for creating a user is a understandable step, to avoid default users.

        When you like to hammer in a lot of commands into a shell to install something, do it. I prefer my clean, simple and straight forward install scripts. I don’t need a installation doc that goes over every customization that you can make. I want a setup that works for most users and after that, I can dig around every customization there is, to optimize a software how I want it. Not everything is needed right at start and a default value that most users will use, is enough for the start.

        Good thing that there is a ton of software and I can pick the ones where I like their philosophy and support them. That is what I do.

        • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          To clarify, I’m not saying that devs shouldn’t write scripts, just that they aren’t obliged to. I too prefer having easy to install software. But the dev has given something they wrote for free, we aren’t entitled to free support as well.

    • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 months ago

      With the upmost respect, on most Linux systems, installing software is at least as simple as on windows.

      Sidenote, Sherlock can be run on windows and it works the same way. So horrible starting point for your argument.

  • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    The amount of salt in these comments are fucking hilarious. No one but Microsoft ever promised you an easy desktop experience. If you want to play dumb, do it in your shitwear.