Is there a reliable, easy to use Linux OS? One with decent package support?
I am tired of Linux shenanigans and want something that works. I left Windows because it doesn’t work plus all the bs they have pulled recently. Now I am finding that many Linux are still difficult, broken by default mess.
Currently trying NixOS but I already have concerns.
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Aren’t linux mint, popOS, and openSuse Tumbleweed just working on your machine? All of them offer you a nice driver management gui very easy to use. I don’t know what shenanigans you mean? Are you trying a dual GPU setup or what?
Are you trying a dual GPU setup or what? You mean like 95% of gaming laptops?
In all seriousness I have reasons not to use Mint and PopOS for my desktop. I’ve not really played with tumbleweed much. I would have to look at what stuff it can run. I have some lengthy requirements and prefer things with as much software support as possible, though that is becoming easier with tools like distrobox.
By shenanigans I mean things like: problems compiling kernel modules, fixing other broken things, dealing with some ridiculous install processes and problems (looking at you nix, slackware, crux, gentoo, etc.), dealing with packages not being available with a given distro, etc.
I see, I would say the software support is similar to Arch, where you have a pretty active community creating install packages for everything I need ( https://software.opensuse.org/packages )
But as I read your comments I think your needs are just very much greater than mine, so maybe there is still something missing. But you can search using link above without installing 😇
Fedora/nobara. Nobara if you don’t want to have to figure out the non-free repos/codecs, and want graphics to be optimized out of the box.
NixOS is so far from easy to use, it isn’t in the same universe as 99% of Linux distros. You have picked literally the toughest distro to wrap your head around short of LFS.
NixOS is not easy to use and I can’t really speak for its reliability.
Install Linux mint and be done.
Linux mint not having wayland is problematic for me and I think I have decided it’s a deal breaker. I can’t have Waydroid or VRR which are quite useful.
It sounds like your use case is very specific…
I don’t want to blame you for anything, but choosing NixOS as a beginner is one of the worst things for starting the Linux journey.
Nix is a fantastic distro for sure, but very complicated and absolutely not recommended for newcomers.I’ve made a post about distro selection for beginners, take that as reference. https://feddit.de/post/9087676
All of the recommendations there are simple and reliable, but Mint is the most recommended one.
If reliability (inability to break) is your top priority, then Fedora Atomic is a great choice, but Mint is more recommended for beginners.Not a beginner at all. Been doing this for years. Have a masters in CS even. Just very, very tired of broken by default.
I just edited my comment. You say you’re experienced, but your main experience is Windows?
Forget everything you learned, Linux is a new OS for you and requires a different approach.
No major distro (e.g. Mint) does break out of the blue.
No I have lots of Linux experience. Why would you assume otherwise? Been using it since primary school (like 11).
I started learning windows and linux properly around the same time. I’ve spent roughly as much time on each system. Also some time on macOS though not as much.
The issue I have is how much time and effort many Linux distros take, and how many are basically broken. Even mint can be more effort to use than macOS or Windows though it is one of the better ones I have found. Its install process is noticeably better than Windows to give it some credit. Though with features like HDR missing that people will want it’s kinda moot.
I can’t keep defending Linux though with the shenanigans people have to do to use some of it. I want something newbies and experienced people can both use without having to worry about compiling the kernel, modules, packaging issues and so on. Something I can point to and go: this is how a computer should work; that’s what an operating system should be. Y’know?
Sorry, I misinterpreted your “I’m coming from Windows” as “I’ve never used something else”.
Those “Linux shenanigans”, as you call them, are and should not be the norm.
If your hardware allows it (e.g. no Nvidia), everything works plug and play in my experience. And even if your hardwar isn’t optimal, it usually works perfectly fine too after minimal tweaking (e.g. installing the Nvidia driver).But seriously, if you have to “compile the kernel” and stuff, you’re doing something wrong in my eyes.
I’m also not super experienced and don’t even have a background in IT, and Linux is way less troublesome than Windows is for me.If not having HDR is a huge deal-breaker for you, then maybe consider keeping a second drive for Windows there. I personally don’t even know if my monitor has that and couldn’t care less. Good news is, it’s coming soon hopefully. I personally prefer not having that above Windows.
If that’s (or similar stuff) your only reason for not using Linux then you never will. It’s just a different OS with different features and pros.About distro choice, my favourite is Fedora Atomic, specifically uBlue. It’s a pretty new concept and exactly that what Linux should always have been imo.
It’s perfectly reliable and won’t break. I always had the tendency to brick my OS, and that won’t happen on that.If not having HDR is a huge deal-breaker for you, then maybe consider keeping a second drive for Windows there. I personally don’t even know if my monitor has that and couldn’t care less. Good news is, it’s coming soon hopefully. I personally prefer not having that above Windows. If that’s (or similar stuff) your only reason for not using Linux then you never will. It’s just a different OS with different features and pros.
It’s not the only issue. That’s the problem. By itself it’s just an irritation. I think most of my devices have limited HDR support anyway. I would just suck it up and move on. The issue is it’s lots of stuff like this, mint doesn’t seem to work with VRR for example. Other distributions can do this but not mint. Similar issues with things like Waydroid. Mint really need to catch up as they are still the flagship distro most newbies will be pointed to.
But seriously, if you have to “compile the kernel” and stuff, you’re doing something wrong in my eyes. I’m also not super experienced and don’t even have a background in IT, and Linux is way less troublesome than Windows is for me.
There are two topics I am talking about. One is compiling the entire kernel, the other is compiling specific modules. If you use zfs, nvidia, or a few other things chances are you have had to compile kernel modules at some point. This becomes a problem when those builds fail, as was the issue with Debian on my server VM. If you have ever seen linux-headers or DKMS pop up when installing something then that’s to do with compiling modules. Other things I have had to manually compile modules for have been even more of a pain. This isn’t something I am doing wrong here - it’s necessary for certain hardware and software features like some WiFi adapters and TV tuner cards.
Compiling the entire kernel is recommended by things like Gentoo and is a whole other ballgame.
I sadly have to leave the conversation. I don’t think it will get further.
I don’t want to be rude or so, but you basically said “I know everything better and everything sucks”.
Maybe not Linux/ any other OS, but you are the problem? You really need to orient yourself and settle your expectations.You want HDR/ VRR? Then use Windows and live with that.
You don’t want to use Windows? Then go for Linux and live with the drawbacks of having to wait a while for those features until they are stable enough.
Don’t like Linux? Then buy a Macbook and use it like everyone else.As I said, Linux doesn’t require you to recompile the kernel or shit, on a normal setup, for reasonable use cases, it just works.
You can blame a lot on Linux, but not everything. It has its flaws, for sure, but if you break it every 5 minutes or have to jump hoops, then something is wrong in my eyes.
Do you really wanna know my advice?
Use your all-knowing CS skills and get a good paying job, and do your stuff, and not more, on a company laptop. If your job is to manage servers, then just do that and use vanilla Mint or so for that. You can change your wallpaper, but not more.And then, after your shift, go home and learn gardening. It’s spring right now, grab a few seeds and grow tomatoes or something, I don’t know.
The way you are on right now will only lead to more frustration. Return to a simple life and don’t worry about recompiling kernels or shit. Peace ✌️VRR it turns out can be enabled with just a couple config changes. So it will actually work in mint theoretically. If you had taken the time to check you would have known it’s possible and mint/cinnamon just haven’t added a setting for it yet like KDE have.
You should not be using mint for enterprise servers. Most don’t even need a GUI. Why would you ever think that’s a good idea?
I am sorry but you very clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not even about having a degree or whatever, you have less knowledge than I did around 17/18. There is nothing wrong with not knowing stuff, but pretending you have a clue is silly.
I made this post in a moment of frustration with the state of some Linux distros, including some aimed at advanced users. It was clearly a mistake coming here. There are some issues in Linux distros and Linux communities and you’re one of them.
Also if I could find a job I would have done so already. The job market for graduates in CS without experience is bad.
I actually have ublue (bazzite) installed on one of my drives. It’s not my favorite but I can see why people like it. Sadly I did actually manage to break it my home messing with fleek, one of the included packages.
So what do you want? It seems like you are unhappy with it all. There are plenty of people here trying to give you good advise but you keep responding with “Linux bad”.
Let us help you. If you don’t want help that’s fine but blaming the Linux or the community instead of trying to solve actual issues is not really ideal. It sounds like you aren’t all that experienced in the Linux desktop space. My advise would be to try to forget everything you think you know and follow the communities advise. It seems like everyone is recommending Linux mint for the most part which is a excellent choice. Maybe try installing it and then come back here if you have problems.
Actually yeah I was pretty unhappy. I have gone through a bunch of distros trying to find my forever OS. Things like mint aren’t appropriate to what features I want (VRR, waydroid), and aren’t really for experienced linux users. I have had too many issues with advanced linux OSes that are within my skill level like void because they just don’t have the software support or documentation. I was basically pushed to try a non-systemd system which led to that. It’s probably not something I would do again for my main OS.
Arch is too unstable to be really considered. The main options I have left are fedora, opensuse, debian, solus, and nix. Maybe kubuntu at a push.
Let us help you. If you don’t want help that’s fine but blaming the Linux or the community instead of trying to solve actual issues is not really ideal. It sounds like you aren’t all that experienced in the Linux desktop space. My advise would be to try to forget everything you think you know and follow the communities advise. It seems like everyone is recommending Linux mint for the most part which is a excellent choice. Maybe try installing it and then come back here if you have problems.
This is just full of assumptions. I think I brought some of this on myself with the question I asked.
There is a chance I have more experience than you do. That’s not me bragging, I did a masters in CS and had more Linux experience than most of the people there in my final year. I had more Linux skills than some professors. Even the main Linux guy we had had some surprising gaps in his knowledge (didn’t know what containers were for example, or about modern file system capabilities ala zfs and btrfs).
This just wasn’t a strong day for me. Nix isn’t’ something I have really used before, and I didn’t really know what to expect going into it. I just knew I had to get away from void before the lack of software support and general grievances did my head in. I had about enough with Linux distributions problems. Now that I have calmed down a bit I think I can make nix work. It was just annoying coming from another Linux OS that had issues to then deal with nix shenanigans that took me three installs to even figure out - kind of like my first arch install all those years ago. I very nearly decided it wasn’t worth it and went to fedora.
I strongly disagree that Linux mint is not suitable for everyone. It works well and there isn’t anything you can’t make it do. I don’t really see how easy to use and configure equates to not being suitable for advanced uses.
Another side note is that your CS degree means nothing. Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but it doesn’t really mean much.
Apologies if I mistook your tone but its hard to read into just text. I have the same issue sometimes with emails. It sounds like your looking for features that aren’t really possible as of yet on stable Linux. (VRR, HDR). If you wait a year or two my guess is that they will be a little less experimental as developing these features takes time.
For Waydroid, you need a desktop with Wayland. Linux Mint is working on support but I don’t believe it is stable as of yet. I run Fedora and it works fine there but Fedora isn’t going to work well with Nvidia or gaming as that’s not how its configured. You could make it work but it takes more time.
Maybe you should come back in a year or so when everything has had a chance to mature.
VRR works under KDE at least. Someone also got it working on mint but using the nvidia control panel. It’s a shame about HDR.
I don’t really have the option to come back. I am determined not to use Windows on bare metal again.
I actually use PopOS on my laptop and it’s been mostly flawless. I don’t personally like the interface though, which is a shame given how well it works. I think I remember recommending it before and I probably would do again to anyone who likes mac like interfaces.
Linux Mint is close but without the Wayland support coming anytime soon, and the lack of features that brings it’s hard for me to recommend. I don’t know what the Nvidia support is like, I think it’s the same as Ubuntu LTS until proven otherwise.
Also I am blaming the community, we are extremely evangelical, as I am also guilty of at times. We need solid distros to back that up. This is getting kind of difficult with mint falling behind the times, as it was the flagship of easy to use desktop OS. It’s okay if you don’t need HDR, waydroid, or VRR - but that excludes a lot people especially gamers.
Linux Mint on Nvidia should be as good or better than Ubuntu. It has a automatic installer that prompts you to set it up. They are also working on Wayland support.
Yeah I heard about that. When they get Wayland support I might switch to it. That or LMDE.
When I used PopOS I just removed all their extensions, so it would be closer to stock GNOME and look better. Afterwards I just switched to Fedora.
Not a fan of stock gnome. Actually prefer their version.
Debian 12. It’s so fucking reliable. And not to mention packages.
I remember debian being alright. Shame it doesn’t have up to date packages though and nvidia problems. Might use that on the computer I have which doesn’t use Nvidia.
Distros don’t have Nvidia problems; Nvidia has Linux problems.
Do not waste your time looking for a distro that works perfectly with Nvidia; it does not exist.
I’ve had no more issues with Nvidia on Debian than on any other distro. However, I recommend getting your Nvidia drivers via Nvidia’s manual installer rather than your distro’s package manager, regardless of which distro you choose. I’ve had much better experience with this method over the years, across a few different distros (currently Debian).
Outdated packages can be an issue with Debian. Personally, I’ve found this to be “fine” for me now, since I get a lot of newer stuff via containers like Flatpak or Docker, or I can backport in a pinch.
That’s not acceptable. Full stop. FreeBSD doesn’t have these issues, neither does Windows. Even some Linux OSes have fixed it like PopOS. All of these things work with Nvidia. I get that Nvidia are not always the most helpful, but it’s not like they are being malicious, they do provide linux drivers after all. Linux’s inability to work with external drivers is not a good thing.
The problem with Nvidia is that there drivers are proprietary. You won’t have issues with Intel or AMD as they work out of the box with no special software.
On top of that the Nvidia proprietary modules and software are not well made so it is prone to issues. They best answer is to stick to the beaten path with Linux Mint or Pop os as those are the only two decent distros with OK support for Nvidia.
Linux Mint isn’t great for a server unfortunately.
Why not?
Waste of resources, possible security issues. Ubuntu server would probably be better for that purpose. I say this as someone who isn’t a fan of Ubuntu anymore.
Honestly using FreeBSD for this instance seems to work better so I will probably keep doing that.
I am curious to know what issues you’ve had with Debian that you did not have with FreeBSD or PopOS.
Nvidia drivers refusing to recompile when I update the system.
Are you using SecureBoot? If so, make sure that you follow the steps to properly sign the kernel module and approve it in your motherboard firmware.
If using the Debian repo to install, follow the steps to enable the DKMS key for SecureBoot: https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot#Making_DKMS_modules_signing_by_DKMS_signing_key_usable_with_the_secure_boot
If you are using Nvidia’s manual installer, see the readme: https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/450.80.02/README/installdriver.html#RegisteringTheNda02d
Yes, this is a pain in the ass. The good news is that it’s a one-time setup; I have performed multiple kernel upgrades on my Debian system without issue.
No it’s not a one time setup. Also doubt there is a secure boot probably BIOS even. It installed the first time and worked, but broke on update, so not a boot issue. This is using the official driver in the non-free repo.
By comparison FreeBSD you install the driver from the default repos (no enabling non-free) and it just works. Not had an issue updating yet.
It can be a one-time setup.
Right up until your laptop gets its motherboard replaced and won’t boot due to a MOK-signed module (in my case it was ZFS, which I needed for the machine to actually function).
At which point you
- Switch secure boot from enforcing to permissive mode (note you can’t turn it off entirely, or the enrollment will fail with an error that your system doesn’t support secure boot).
- Boot into your OS.
- Find the arcane command to re-enroll the MOK. That’s
sudo mokutil --import /var/lib/shim-signed/mok/MOK.der(for Ubuntu derivatives and probably others), in case someone finds this post in the future. - Reboot again, accept enrolling the key.
- Reboot again, and switch back to enforcing.
If you have a BIOS password, encrypted filesystem, and all the other moving parts that make having secure boot enabled actually a meaningful exercise, this is neither a fun, nor particularly quick process.
As for modules being signed automatically when built by DKMS, I’ve never had an issue with that.
If you’ve newish hardware then fedora workstation is a good option. It was my daily driver for almost a year. Another one is Zorin OS based on Ubuntu. Zorin ships most of the driver out of the box and I recommend it if you’re shifting from Windows.
Yeah it’s on my list of things to try if I don’t figure out NixOS. I have spent the last several months trying to find my forever desktop OS. It’s been very frustrating. It’s actually been easier finding good server software than a good desktop OS - not surprising I suppose.Like Proxmox is a bit finicky in some areas but is overall really nice once you understand how to use it.
