In every single article you read about UBI (universal basic income) you read about all the wonderful utopian possibilities. I have not seen one article mention what I believe will be the truth. The governments of the world will use it as a threat against behavior they want modified or won’t tolerate.
If you get a few DUIs what happens? They take away your license because driving is a privilege. Well, imagine being poor and needing the monthly UBI money and the government tells you that if you do this specific act you will lose your UBI.
It will be subtle at first and resemble some typical government hoop-jumping bureaucracy. Then a slippery slope of things you cannot do will slowly erode your rights. Did you attend a protest? In the U.S., the First Amendment grants you the right to do that but UBI is not a right it is a privilege so you lose your UBI.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
Like everything, it’s a matter of public engagements. But UBI in itself is a good idea
yeah to some degree. you would not get it if incarcerated or such but is it really more control than the economic system already inflicts on us? I don’t think so.
First of all, if you drink and drive you should lose your licence.
Second, this is one of the many reasons why it’s so important that we work hard to protect our democratic values and better the democratic systems that are already in place. Unfortunately an increasing number of people are willing to support leaders who aim to break down those democratic systems and enchroach civil rights.
In a well run democratic system (read: not USA) UBI can be a boon. It may be idealistic to a degree, but well worth striving for.
100% agree with you. And I think the comment:
Well, imagine being poor and needing the monthly UBI money and the government tells you that if you do this specific act you will lose your UBI.
Misses the point. This literally already exists with Employment Insurance, Unemployment, etc.
If we’re in a democracy then yeah, governments can absolutely find ways to try to remove people from having it… But what’s worse: the vast majority of people having enough to scrape by, or the vast majority of people not having enough to scrape by?
Every single point against UBI already exists as a problem. Why not at least get the good parts.
How do you think this current system works lol.
What you are describing are conditions so that would by definition not be UBI.
A semantic argument isn’t going to stop an authoritarian goverment.
Are any such governments likely to implement UBI in the first place?
The idea is to implement it with inherent protections in place
And how’s life without UBI in an authoritarian government?
“Well you see, Mr. President, what you’ve actually created is simply just BI, or basic income, becaus- wait, who are these guys? Put your guns down. I take it back, I love Zionism”
So what is it you are suggesting? People become homeless? Go hungry? Ubi is necessary for a society and it works in most country’s that have this kind of system in place.
Everything you said has been conjecture.
He who has the gold already has the gold… What difference will it make if it goes to people who need it.
So what is it you are suggesting? People become homeless? Go hungry?
Why are people like this? I will never, ever understand people. Where in my premise did I ever state that I was anti-UBI or that I was suggesting an alternative? You immediately misinterpreted everything I wrote and started creating strawman arguments. The post is about UBI being corrupted by politicians. That’s all.
Everything you said has been conjecture.
Dude, what is the name of this community where this was posted? Did you know that conjecture is synonymous with opinion? And did you know that your opinions are also conjecture. What a ridiculous point you have attempted to make.
He who has the gold already has the gold… What difference will it make if it goes to people who need it.
You have no reading comprehension skills at all, right? The post (the opinion) is that UBI will be corrupted and those who need it will not get it unless they comply.
By the way, I am pro-UBI. I never stated that I was not.
I found your opinion to be unpopular…
What more can I say"Opinion or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
An opinion or conclusion based on guesswork.
“The commentators made various conjectures about the outcome of the next election.”
An opinion, or judgment, formed on defective or presumptive evidence; probable inference; surmise; guess; suspicion "
My use of conjecture is fairly clear.
I have dyslexia so yes I do have issues with reading comprehension although its obvious you mean to insult my intellectual ability.
OP when the straw man they built is flammable: 🤯😧😬
I’m not sure what’s stopping them from doing this now and how a ubi would make it any easier.
You already cant use cash many places.
Putting people onto digital payments, credit cards, and digital currency will all acheive the same control.
I could see it being realistically denied to convicted criminals (felonies), because the thinking will be, “If you’re a good citizen participating in society, then you’re entitled to UBI, but when you break that social contract, you lose that benefit”. And when you’re sent to jail/prison, the State becomes responsible for you anyways, so I’m sure the idea would be to just funnel your UBI towards your incarceration costs.
It being used against citizens for political reasons seems like something Republicans would do, so I think it would be necessary to build in protections to prevent UBI from being denied citizens for any reason other than maybe a felony conviction.
Why would a felony conviction disqualify you? In many places, getting caught with weed would be enough to disqualify you.
Perhaps don’t give the money to people while they are in prison, since all of their needs should be fulfilled already. But disqualifying someone after their time is served defeats the purpose of UBI itself and of prison as a means of reform.
That’s what the U part of UBI is for. Otherwise you just have a BI.
Right. If it isn’t guaranteed, with no means testing, then it isn’t “Universal”
You’re just describing the horrors of capitalism. The difference is that the guy with the gold under a system of UBI can be voted out if they don’t follow the will of the people.
The government right now encourages behavior it wants right now with tax breaks. They want you to have kids, child credit. They want you to open a factory, tax break on top of depreciation expenses.
They already do all this with social safety net programs like Social Security and HUD/Section 8. Go to jail, lose your benefits. Every year is a ton of hoop jumping and massive stress while I recertify for my housing voucher and the measly $2 in food stamps they give my family per month. And that’s without me even going to protests anymore.
The idea behind Universal Basic Income (UBI) is that everyone gets it. Rich, poor, and everyone in between. There is no criteria (other than maybe citizenship) that would prohibit getting the money. That helps to prevent what you are describing.
I’m sure someone will figure out a way to make it terrible in some way, but we have to implement it first and then deal with the hiccups.
