Person 1: Is your friend Bob coming over? Person 2: No, they can’t make it, they’re busy
One Bob, and we all know it’s one Bob, no confusion. Look for context. It’s not that hard.
Person 1: Are Bob and Janice coming over? Person 2: They can’t make it.
Sometimes additional context is needed.
Person 1: Are Bob and Janice coming over? Person 2: They can’t make it.
Alternative:
Person 1: Are Alice and Janice coming over? Person 2: She can’t make it.
Alternative:
Person 1: Are Alice and Janice coming over? Person 2: Alice can’t make it.
This is far less difficult than you’re trying to force it to be.
Bob said he’s coming, but Janice said they can’t make it.
Bad example. Having the ‘but’ in there introduces ambiguity. We can’t tell if Janice is contradicting Bob and saying they both won’t be coming, or if it’s just Janice speaking for themself.
Agreed it’s a bad example. When already using the specific identifier of names, using general identifiers isn’t needed, and is rarely done. Most people would just say Bob is coming but Janice can’t make it.
Your example is unambiguously plural. It’s not a good illustration of “they” creating confusion.
It’s truly not a problem. I could contrive a reason to talk about a couple (they plural) and a nonbinary person (they singular) and end up with sentences where you don’t know which I’m referring to, but the exact same issue happens if I’m telling a story about two “he” or “she” subjects. And it’s solved in the same way.
Really? I used they when I wasn’t sure of gender (online games for example) before the pronoun use became common. I cannot remember anyone ever being confused.
This isn’t a new thing, so you’re just having trouble with centuries old English, not something brand new.
We don’t need a new word. “Dude” already exists.
I’m a dude.
He’s a dude.
She’s a dude.
We’re all dudes!
I’d ask “So how many dudes have you slept with?” but I don’t think that one works on most of us furries =3
“Like… For real or just in my headcanon?”
“They” is the traditional English-language pronoun when an unknown person could be of either gender. “Mommy, my teacher said a funny thing at school today!” “Oh? What did they say?”
Teacher is singular, but assigning a gender would feel awkward if one doesn’t know, so “they” is used instead.
Why not just pick new words to use?
Because the current word for it works just fine?
And also because when people try to use neopronouns they take as much flak for that if not more. Imagine this same argument: “I’m not used to these newfangled pronouns. Why can’t they just use normal ones?”
We have that in French, the amount of discussions the new pronoun (“iel”, as a mix between “il” et “elle”) is absurd
As someone speaking German, a brutally gendered language, let me tell you, they/them is awesome and I’d love to have something similar in German. There is so much fighting and discussions about “gendern” and it consumes so much energy that could be better spent elsewhere. And conservatives are having a field trip with this.
Looking for a new word is equally as hard if not way harder than using what already works fine.
Yes I would love for the German language to have an equivalent for they/them. It’s also so awkward talking about someone who is non binary and neither uses he/him nor she/her and you always have to refer to them by their name.
Entering academia early 2000s, I saw people refer to authors of research papers as “they” as a default to sidestep gendering.
On one hand it’s nice to not insert gender where it isn’t needed, but on the more practical hand it wasn’t always possible to tell by name either. European names can have different gender in different regions, or be all Sztrkökla, and names from Asia are even harder to guess.
names from Asia are even harder to guess
Good luck in Cambodia where Samnang and many other names can be used for both male and female names.
You get gender-neutral names in English-speaking countries too, eg Alex, Jordan, and Dylan. It’s just not possible to reliably guess everyone’s gender from their name alone.
I’ve never heard Dylan for women but yes, you’re spot on. Here it’s not such a thing to have gendered names, they just work.
I know a woman called Dylan.
I can think of at least two (female) porn stars with Dylan as their assumed first name.
In Norway there’s like 60 names that have a reasonably even usage between genders.
one always thinks of a plurality of people
Speak for yourself! I don’t immediately think plural when “they” is used.
Using “one” yet it refers to multiple people, my days.
IMO only one person is allowed to use the one pronoun: Keanu Reeves
It is much quicker to understand they as a neutral instead of introducing new language and trying to disseminate that through textbooks. This way, there’s no need for any (or many) edits, we can just maintain existing grammar with new understanding.
English already has another form which refers to singular and plural: ‘you’. I assume that people who suddenly take umbrage are just kicking up a fuss for the sake of it, or simply didn’t stop to think about what they’ve been using all this time.
Thou shouldst campaign for the resurgence of a second person singular pronoun as well.
2nd person singular: ya’ll
2nd person plural: all ya’ll
Using “youins” for second person plural is considered archaic.
confusing and difficult
It’s really not, if you try. Have you tried? No. So give it an earnest shot before you lament your woes and push for others to bend over backward for you.
This is typical for the English language.
There used to be thou, which was a singular form of you. However, thou also implied you were talking to someone at or lower that you were. Eventually, it became seen as rude to call someone thou, so its usage dropped in favor of a uniform you.
A singular they fits this role, as the gender isn’t defined enough to use he or she and the use of it would be seen as an insult.
Good grief, this is not new. It’s part of the English language. They/them has always been around to use when one couldn’t, or didn’t want to use a more specific pronoun. Cumbersome, maybe, but much language is. It is NOT a big deal.
If you don’t know someone’s gender, what do you call them? Like, what if they present in a really ambiguous way? Or what if you’ve never even met them? Like say you’re about to sit down at a restaurant, and you notice a jacket on the seat, would you tell the hostess, “excuse me, I think the last person to sit here left their jacket.” Or would you just be unable to refer to them because you don’t know their gender?
I love the irony of this comment lol
Real conversation at my house… Me - You invited your friend, Taylor, to Thanksgiving?
Kid-Yeah, they’re looking forward to meeting you guys.
Me-Oh, is Taylor bringing a date?
Kid- i don’t think so. I told them to come over about 4.
Me- ??? How many chairs do we need??
So, while they singular is correct, it’s also confusing as hell!!
“Sorry for the confusion. Taylor uses they/them pronouns.”
Confusion lifted, problem solved.
Yeah, that would have helped.
Typically you can assume a pronoun isn’t introducing any previously unmentioned people, as that is confusing and bad grammar. The only case I would find this confusing is if you thought “Taylor” referred to a group of people like a band.
I have no idea how you would be this confused here.
What about this is confusing?
It’s really not, it’s very common usage in the UK.
