It’s important to remember that whistleblowing is extremely stressful, so much that it’s one of the main things the government talks about on their whistleblowing site:
Practice self-care and stress-reducing activities throughout your whistleblowing process. It is common to experience toxic forms of retaliation – from professional isolation to gaslighting (manipulating someone by psychological means into questioning their own sanity) – which can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, or even thoughts of harm.
Researchers have found the same thing, being a whistleblower is terrible for your mental health:
About 85% suffered from severe to very severe anxiety, depression, interpersonal sensitivity and distrust, agoraphobia symptoms, and/or sleeping problems, and 48% reached clinical levels of these specific mental health problems. These specific mental health problems were much more prevalent than among the general population.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6604402/
In addition, “Half of Patients With Suicidal Thoughts Deny It”
Not only did approximately 50% of people with suicidal thoughts deny having those thoughts, roughly 50% of people who had died by suicide, and 30% of people who had attempted suicide had denied having suicidal ideation in the week or month beforehand.
Furthermore, in many cases, people who had disclosed in apps and on paper that they had thoughts of suicide then denied that they had suicidal ideation when questioned directly in face-to-face assessments or interviews. For example, in one study, nearly 60% of those who reported their suicidal ideation on an app then denied their suicidal ideation in a telephone interview less than 24 hours later.
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2021.10.9
So, just because he denied he was suicidal doesn’t mean that’s necessarily true. He might have been trying to appear strong to everyone while suffering in silence.
This should definitely be investigated as possibly being murder. And, even if the investigation does determine that he shot himself, they should keep looking to see if he was being blackmailed or if he might have been pressured into suicide.
I just can’t imagine an executive at Boeing going out and hiring a hit man. But, what I can imagine them doing is hiring a team of private investigators to go through this guy’s entire life and dig up every bit of dirt on him. It could be they found something really embarrassing and were going to blackmail him with it. It could be that they found something innocent that they could frame as being awful, like to make him look like he was a child molester or something.
Yikes. A hit man was hired.
Oh really? You have evidence of that?
Mainly my sense of humour, and biased belief in equal parts.
I just can’t imagine an executive at Boeing going out and hiring a hit man
Really? That’s weird, I totally can. It’s an exceptionally narrow-minded and short-sighted knee-jerk reaction to a perceived threat of one’s executive career. Most coked-out executives already have a massive god complex once they get their MBA and are installed above the
prolesworkers. I can absolutely realistically imagine one Boeing executive getting angry enough and coked-out enough to just decide, “fuck it, I’m going to fix this problem for us before he threatens my career and reputation any more”.The information you present about whistleblowing being stressful is fair. He may indeed have been driven to kill himself instead of being straight-up assassinated like others believe. I refuse, however, to give the benefit of doubt to a massive corporation who has already demonstrated a complete lack of regard for human life and an extremely poor track record of moral and ethical decision-making. This needs to be investigated under the assumption that a hit is an entirely possible reality. Unless you’d rather that nobody blows the whistle on anything in the future - you’ve already demonstrated that it’s an incredibly stressful action. If there’s the lingering remote possibility that you can be simply assassinated over it and everyone will look the other way, nobody will ever raise their voice again. The nature of his actions before his death demand a comprehensive and exhaustive investigation into if any person from Boeing had anything to do with it whatsoever, or whistleblowing will continue sliding into something only the insane consider.
Really? That’s weird, I totally can.
While Boeing executives may be criminals, they’re pretty much exclusively white collar criminals. They went to business school, not the military. They come from rich households. They don’t have gang or organized crime affiliations. How would they know anything about hiring hit men?
Hiring a firm to do PR and to dig up dirt on a whistleblower, sure, that’s within their skillset. That’s even something they can brag about in board meetings because it’s legal. It’s the kind of thing they can google, or have a secretary research for them. It doesn’t matter if transcripts leak. But, hiring a hit man, how do they know they won’t get caught – and this time for the kind of crime where people actually get sent to real prisons?
This needs to be investigated under the assumption that a hit is an entirely possible reality.
Sure, they should work under the assumption that it was a very careful hitman who made it look like a suicide. They should be 10x more careful than they normally would if they even suspected it might be a suicide. But, I still think driving him to suicide is much more likely.
IMO, the kind of press this is getting is part of the reason I don’t think it was a hit. If this were Russia, sure. A hit sends the message to anybody else that they better not think of doing the same thing. The press will tell whatever story the government wants. Even on social media nobody very few people will speak up in Russia. But, in the US, this death is going to draw so much more attention to Boeing. Just look at how many articles there are about the whistleblower’s death vs. how many there were about him beforehand. Corporations are used to managing news cycles when it comes to legal cases and congressional hearings. Those are boring and don’t tend to go viral. But a whistleblower dying as he was giving testimony, that’s exciting, it’s like the movies, so it’s all everyone’s going to talk about.
Unless he had even more damaging information that he somehow didn’t give to anybody yet, despite the fact he had already been testifying, it seems like the damage his death does is much higher than the damage his testimony would have done.
You didn’t think executives would resort to violence?
Let me introduce you to Coca Cola and Shell. And the East and West India Companies before them.
These guys approved MCAS knowing it could create situations that were were unrecoverable. They aren’t above killing people for profit.
Let me introduce you to Coca Cola and Shell.
They’ve been found guilty of killing people on American soil? I hadn’t heard that, do tell.
And the East and West India Companies before them.
Yeah, the 1400s are really relevant here.
These guys approved MCAS knowing it could create situations that were were unrecoverable.
Yes, white collar crime.
Get your history correct atleast. East India Company was in charge of India until 1857 and squeezed it dry. It was basically an early blueprint of modern day capitalism and imperialism.
These guys approved MCAS knowing it could create situations that were were unrecoverable.
Yes, white collar crime.
If that’s “white collar crime” then so is hiring a hitman.
You’re being rather naive. Sure, those bosses would have a hard time doing violence on other people, personally. But through another person? Nah. The same as approving MCAS, knowing it will kill people.
Also, you need to take a basic history lesson. “1400’s” is a really bad guess.
You’re being rather naive.
And you watch too much TV.
I haven’t had one in ~14 years.
I do live in a bad part of town and this guy used to be my neighbour (before he died a few years ago.)
Chill guy all in all (except when someone snitched and he lost like 2 pound of meth). Interesting stories as well.
Made really good risotto.
I don’t need a TV. :)
If that’s “white collar crime” then so is hiring a hitman.
No, it isn’t. If you hire a hitman you can be tried for conspiracy to commit murder. If you approve a system that could be unsafe for an airplane, your company might have to pay a fine. They’re vastly different crimes, even if one results in a lot more deaths.
You’re being rather naive
You watch too many movies.
Sure, those bosses would have a hard time doing violence on other people, personally. But through another person? Nah
They might have the mindset required to hire a hitman. But, they don’t have the connections. They also don’t want to take on the personal liability of doing that. These are almost all finance guys who have MBAs. They wouldn’t make a decision like this on their own, and they wouldn’t be able to talk about it in a board meeting without risking a conspiracy charge.
The MCAS decision is ridiculous, but it exactly the kind of thing they can discuss in a board meeting without risking criminal charges. Even if the meeting had been recorded, the transcript would be boring board-room talk, nothing that they could be indicted for.
They might have the mindset required to hire a hitman. But, they don’t have the connections.
Anyone can find a hitman online, all it takes is 15min to get to know how deep web markets work. They’re by far the least reliable service ofc, but it is sold and there are escrow services as well. How well they work in cases like that is a whole other matter, but I, personally, find it rather ludicrous a suggestion that a high-level Boeing boss who manages the complexities of a job like that (especially when simultaneously playing Jenga with airline safety) wouldn’t be able to figure out how to access a black market.
Especially when they could always hire a person to do that for them. Do they trust anyone at all, with any of their criminal shenanigans? Well surely the co-conspirators at least. These massive, systemic changes that made Boeing go from trusted airline to killing whistleblowers weren’t the actions of one man.
And if there was a group of men, then it’s shared responsibility. Even if they conspire to hire a hitman. It doesn’t feel as much like a violent crime when it’s done in white-collars and agreed on in a fancy hotel suite.
I imagine it looked something like this, except Webb’s character wasn’t there
So what do you mean by white collar crime? Does it include killing people or not? Because knowingly bringing about systems that result in the death of people, having a private security contractor that you know will shoot striking workers in your third world countries plantation or ordering a hit on someone are all the same. It is decided that people will die for the companies profit and just because the people who order it dont do it directly themselves, doesn’t change the gravity of it.
Also there os myriads of examples from today, where western companies directly or indirectly order people to get killed, just usually in third countries. The idea that a defense company with billions of profits at stake every year doesn’t have access to hitmen is unconvincing. Why wouldn’t they? Just as the mafia is branching into white business, white business of size are employing criminal means.
If you still think there is some unpenetrable divide, all you need is a private detective agency that has a history of dealing with problems “reliably” in the past.
So what do you mean by white collar crime?
It’s a pretty well defined term.
Does it include killing people or not?
It may mean being responsible for their deaths, but not in a way in which you could be charged for murder.
Also there os myriads of examples from today, where western companies directly or indirectly order people to get killed
Almost always indirectly, and almost never on US soil. Not hiring a hitman to stage a suicide in the US. The kinds of things that US corporations do are the kinds of things they can talk about at board meetings without worrying that they’ll go to jail of the meeting is bugged. They can talk about hiring SecuriCo in Zambia to deal with unrest at the mine. Or, they can talk with hiring the law firm Goldman, Burke and Mott to deal with the bad PR from the whistleblower. They’re not going to chat about going onto a dark web server to hire a hit man to kill a whistleblower. That’s movie stuff, not reality.
Your naiveness is super precious. You can’t see someone with incredible amounts of wealth hiring someone else to make a problem go away?
OK! Next time, you should try a couple of Google searches before wasting all that time typing out nonsense. I didn’t even finish the first page of search results, there were so many. And they are just the ones dumb enough to get caught.
https://patch.com/california/venice/westside-ceo-sentenced-hiring-hitman-kill-partner
https://nypost.com/2022/06/12/ex-amazon-mexico-ceo-juan-garcia-paid-hitman-9k-to-kill-his-wife/
I, personally, have been harmed by people paid by Boeing.
Ok, care to elaborate?
No.
I was actually hired by Boeing as a hitman once, didn’t pay very good tbh
While Boeing executives may be criminals, they’re pretty much exclusively white collar criminals. They went to business school, not the military. They come from rich households. They don’t have gang or organized crime affiliations. How would they know anything about hiring hit men?
Someone has never seen the first RoboCop movie.
Ah yes, thank you for proving my point. People who watch too many movies think that real life is like movies.
What’s next? Getting shot makes you fly backwards through the air? Getting knocked out makes you unconscious for hours, but you wake up with nothing more than a sore head? Silencers go “thwpt” and nobody can hear them from more than a meter away?
Ah yes, thank you for proving my point. People who watch too many movies think that real life is like movies.
What’s next? Getting shot makes you fly backwards through the air? Getting knocked out makes you unconscious for hours, but you wake up with nothing more than a sore head? Silencers go “thwpt” and nobody can hear them from more than a meter away?
Dude, relax, no need to be rude. It’s just a humorous Internet forum comment, that makes a valid point.
Or are you trying to tell me that powerful corporations don’t have very strong security departments with connections?
Or are you trying to tell me that powerful corporations don’t have very strong security departments with connections?
They have security departments filled with normal people who the execs couldn’t trust to do something like this (or order something like this) without ratting them out. They don’t order hits. That’s movie stuff, like every grocery bag must have a baguette and greens poking out of it, or turning on your TV at the exact moment a news report starts.
They have security departments filled with normal people who the execs couldn’t trust to do something like this
So huge multi-billion corporations wouldn’t hire the best of the best, when it comes to security?
That’s movie stuff
Just the bottom line this, we’re not going to agree, but you’d have to be pretty naive to think that those kind of things, with billions of dollars and economies hanging in the balance, doesn’t really happen.
Unfortunately.
pretty much exclusively white collar criminals.
Very much so. It would be hard to believe they would do it themselves. However, enrolling the right assistance should not be too difficult for them. They even have access to more options than the average business executive.
They went to business school, not the military.
They are not military, but they have plenty of contacts there. Boeing is a big player in the military industry, they certainly know a lot of people in that world, both in government positions and the private sector.
They don’t have gang or organized crime affiliations.
Several of them don’t, but organized crime is within reach. Illegal recreational drugs are not uncommon in the business world. Dealers are more often than not connected to the organized crime. Networking in that world is something within business people’s skills.
Hey, who knows, maybe some of those execs started working many years ago as humble machine gun and bazooka salespeople. And who knows what kind of interesting characters they met during those days. While totally not burying their heads into a mountain of white powder sitting in the middle of the table.
driving him to suicide is much more likely.
It is very likely. High stress would have played against him if he was being bullied or threatened. Also, less involved than having them murdered.
it seems like the damage his death does is much higher than the damage his testimony would have done.
Depends on what you consider damage here. The testimony could have been perceived as a threat to important business deals (and to bonuses). It is not infrequent to see executives caring only about their profits, even in detriment of the company as a whole.
Frankly speaking, whether or not a hitman was hired, Boeing is culpable.
Organizing a concerted effort to drive someone to suicide is just as illegal as murdering them. End of story.
If there’s evidence they organized a concerted effort to drive someone to suicide, definitely. Otherwise they’re just culpable for gross violations of safety that have cost lives of airline passengers.
I would also say it could be manslaughter if the stress from the retaliation from whistleblowing caused him to kill himself
But, in the US, this death is going to draw so much more attention to Boeing.
Attention sure, nothing will happen to Boeing though. They own too many politicians, and too many powerful people need them to stay where they are. I have no doubt they killed him.
Attention sure, nothing will happen to Boeing though.
There’s more of a chance of something happening now than there was before the whistleblower died.
Laws don’t apply to rich people. They’ll find a fall guy.
Murder by proxy.
There’s maybe an absurd theory no one has considered: He worried that the accusations weren’t going to be taken seriously, so he killed himself in a relatively suspicious manner/timing, to make sure public trust in Boeing disappeared.
It seems unlikely because there was a lot of interest in the stuff he was testifying about, but it’s possible.
They fucking killed him with a hit man dude…
Of course they didn’t this isn’t a movie
In the real world companies like Boeing don’t hire hit men, they use the cia
And your evidence for that is?
I’ll testify about it tommorow…
k
STOMPYI, was never heard from again…
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that he did commit suicide. The next question I would ask is “why would he do that”?
You don’t have to give bastards the benefit of the doubt. That’s how they win, by taking advantage of your desire for fairness when they have none of their own.
Criticizing a company with basically unlimited resources? They could easily ruin someone’s life enough to send them spiralling.
This comment explains a lot:
I don’t know whether or not he killed himself, and I strongly suspect he didn’t, but I sure as hell know this warrants an intense and thorough investigation. All company and private emails of executives, with forensics to determine if anything was deleted. Long interrogations to see if alibis match up.
There isn’t enough evidence to throw the book at Boeing, but there is enough to search every single little thing related to them.
There isn’t enough evidence to throw the book at Boeing, but there is enough to search every single little thing related to them.
What am I missing? What evidence is there at all that they did it? Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly highly suspicious that they were involved, but you have to have a lot more than suspicion.
His death, under suspicious circumstances, objectively benefits Boeing in an ongoing criminal investigation.
That seems like sufficient justification to conduct an investigation.
His death, under suspicious circumstances, objectively benefits Boeing in an ongoing criminal investigation.
This is motive, not evidence.
That seems like sufficient justification to conduct an investigation.
The fact that he has died is sufficient justification to conduct an investigation, and I’m sure they will. But the claim was that they have enough evidence against Boeing to subpoena basically everything they have. And Boeing having a motive to kill someone is not evidence that they did it, and would not pass a judge if anyone were to seek some kind of warrant.
Not sure why you’re being down voted, what you are saying is accurate. I guess the others are of the “Boeing is bad, therefore it’s pitchfork time” mindset and not justice and due process.
Yup, that’s lemmy for you. The facts don’t matter, only the narrative.
“Yup, that’s $blank for you.”
Same shit’s been said ever since the caveman developed complex enough language to say. That’s a lazy, tired, and vacuous trope you’re mindlessly spouting there, tiger.
Lazy and tired, but unfortunately still true.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, from the rest of us.
Shit’s getting real.
John Oliver better watch his back.
I never thought I’d see the day when a respectable blue chip company like Boeing is publicly outed as ordering an assassination. They fucked up royally. The timing of it all is too eyebrow raising not to be noticed by the entirety of the airplane-using world. Top down criminal investigation. Now.
Boeing is a major part of the military industrial complex. They own the politicians in both parties, the regulators, and the courts. Laws don’t apply to them.
seems like the people need a hit list comprised of their board members.
Imagining a John Wick style phone broadcast hitting everyone at once while these jagoffs are out on the town:
“Wanted: Dead. Kill on sight. Bounty: $______”
we the people have the tools to make it happen.
If they can’t deliver a product that stays in one piece when not even being shot at, they aren’t about to stay a part of that MIC for long.
If you’re the government, you want your military planes to work. It’s in their interests. (Now there’s lots of steps that are problems in realizing that.)
I mean there may simply have been internal reports already, just highly classified to avoid “embarrassing” the nation and not accessible or known to the general public.
I feel like “risk of door blowing off mid flight” or “25% of oxygen masks don’t work” is something the public is entitled to know about
Didn’t say they weren’t entitled to know about it, just the reasoning that might’ve gone through the government’s collective heads when not disclosing or looking the other way on Boeing doing an Epstien.
“Look, it turns out if you flip this switch on the Fa-18 and forget to turn it off after 1 to 5 minutes tops, your chances of ‘uncontrollably inverting and ejecting at high speed straight into the freaking ground’ go up tenfold. We’ve provided the USAF with a 1 hour iPad training about being touchy with the defrost function.”
–Boeing, probably
No. If you’re the state you want shit to work. If you’re part of the government, you just want to get your bribes.
Bribes being one of the steps that can be a problem.
I kijd of thought employers aren’t allowed to murder people but at this point I don’t know anymore.
Murdering people has been a normal part of corporations for a long time, but they generally do it to union organizers in the developing world.
Let’s be fair, they do it everywhere. They do it more in the developing world, but it’s not exclusive there.
In America it used to be you could just bribe your governor and they’d deploy the national guard to kill striking worker’s families like the Ludlow Massacre and the Battle of Blair mountain.
Ludlow Massacre and the Battle of Blair mountain.
It blows my mind how blatantly these events are not taught to anybody. Never forget.
I mean, there have been several huge instances of mass murder by corporations. Go look into the US’ history with strikebreaking and you’ll see just how bad it used to be. At least Boeing is trying to pretend it was a suicide, instead of just blatantly firebombing him in his own home.
I don’t think they are allowed. But I think they do it.
They’re clearly allowed to do whatever the fuck they want.
I never thought I’d see the day when a respectable blue chip company like Boeing is publicly outed as ordering an assassination.
Why does this surprise you that a company, a large company, would order an assassination someone? This doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
don’t know why you’re being downvoted for this. people need to wake up to just how dangerous the enemy is.
well your first mistake was thinking Boeing was a respectable corporation (that ship sailed in 1997 when they dropped the “engineering first” priority in lieu of “business first”)…
your second mistake is thinking any corporation is respectable ;-)
Their third mistake is thinking any corporation will be held accountable
Oh, you got caught doing some shitty business thing and now you’re not making as much money. Here is a government bailout to make it up.
Or they got caught doing a shitty business thing fucking people over and get fined a fraction of what it made them.
lol you’re right.
In other news, if you search for flights on kayak and exclude Boeing planes, holy crap the tickets are insanely expensive.
next stops: buy Kayak and shut it down; Make it illegal for similar searches to be performed; make it illegal to disclose who makes the aircraft.
Unless citizens make it clear that they won’t stand for bullshit, they will get bullshit.
Turns out people pay extra money to avoid death, who knew.
Scary thing nobodies talking about is: if these Boeing-built bad parts are able to slip past inspectors, which we had (naievely?) assumed were given full access top-notch, and neutral, might the standards of other planes build-quality have also dropped?
How safe are the other company’s planes?
Your guess is as good as mine.
At the end of which some low level schmuck will be thrown under the bus and they will be fined a few million dollars grand total for all this shit.
if theyre killing witnesses, theyre too big to prosecute, and I think they should be shutdown and sold for parts
Well corpos are people now, so I think Boeing should be put on a bus to Texas and summarily executed for its crimes against humanity and treason against US persons.
Can’t have it both ways, Capital!
I volunteer to administer the lethal dose of fire…
Imagine the weird “humane” process.
“We’re draining the bank accounts now…” (watching numbers in all accounts drop to zero)
“And now, we’re gonna pull the listing from the stock exchange…” (onlookers gasp)
“Before we invalidate your business license and jail your entire C-suite, have ye any last words?”
I don’t know if we want those parts
Nationalize them.
Even better: Break them up.
Even better, nationalize them and break them up!
Or at least they’re open to quid pro quo.
If they’re killing witnesses, they’re probably working with the government. This is America after all, where money is the ONLY thing that matters.
Can’t let a big business fail, that would communism.
Don’t worry, corporations are people. Surely Boeing will get capital punishment.
You promise? I mean, it should be an option on the table…
Hey look! Boeing just gave the Biden Admin a HUGE W! All they have to do is investigate and punish the people at the top!
Whoops! Nevermind! I guess we’ll just continue saying we AREN’T Trump!
Are you under the impression that the evidence would point to murder but the government wouldn’t investigate that? Obviously it will be investigated. The “people at the top” would be prosecuted if there was evidence they were involved, and not prosecuted if there is no evidence. That is what we want from the government.
You can’t read one headline, assume you know exactly who did exactly what illegal thing, and then immediately declare conspiracy because the evidence doesn’t currently prove your made up claims.
TF is the president supposed to do here?
With an executive order, he can investigate anything he wants.
Makes me wonder, how much does a professional hitman pay troll factories for white washing the crime with “but how do you know it wasn’t a suicide”, specially the ones that are equally professional about it not being flagrant? How much does it compare to cases in Russia for people suiciding out of windows with multiple gunshots?
When something isn’t clearly black and white, without the facts and investigative research, continuing to discuss it usually makes it end up becoming a 50-50% grey area that grossly distorts as much as a completely black and white presumption would. In those cases, the initial “gut feeling” impression and the general education and awareness of a person involved may end up corresponding more to the reality, specially in cases actively trying to suppress the truth.
“Boeing”, a non-living fictional mythos that has been accepted as a “person” so that the industrial revolution could be fueled, did not kill him. But there were plenty of psychopaths with power and influence who would have been affected by his deposition. some who’ve also been spearheading expansion into countries where dealing with and coming to compromises with its lowest ethical lowlifes (some of them also being potential or existing customers) would have been a necessity.
Boeing rep: Tragically, it appears that Mr. Barnett was discussing suicide in lead up to his death.
Sounds like an admittance of guilt to me. Nothing will happen, sadly.
hope Boeing get their ass handed this time.
“We will be offering a stock buyback in his memory.”
Nationalize Boeing
Then flush everyone from director up, and investigate middle management, and put people in that actually have some fucking ethics. Jesus H Christ.
Seriously. Once we nationalize it and it starts operating like it used to, it would be a shining example of why nationalization works.
It’s also why you’re going to see an tsunami of useful idiots saying we shouldn’t do it.
Go further, nationalize the MIC. I’m not gonna sit here and pretend the United States doesn’t need to manufacture arms for itself and it’s allies, but we absolutely do not need thousands of useless C-suite middlemen making millions of dollars from the process. Boeing is just the canary in the coal mine, I would not be surprised if other frequent contractors have also significantly decreased their ability to produce useful goods in favor of growing their profit margins. Great for profits, but not exactly what you’re looking for to protect troops.
People in this situation might consider putting themselves under video surveillance.
Like Epstein was
I would be going to pretty great lengths to ensure I didn’t get Epsteined or, if I did, the mfers behind it got theirs. I’d be sending hand written letters to every goddamn person knew that I wasn’t suicidal.
And I would be really careful about my opsec. Oh, you thought I was at that motel? Fuck you pricks, I ditched the rental, took a bus and switched five times, changed clothes twice and snuck to a culvert to sleep, you fucking corpo assassins. Good luck with that. .!..
I know right. Exactly my thoughts. If you are a whistleblower, install secret camers in your house and always keep a recorder (audio/video) in your pocket or chest.
Although in a few years this is obsolete. AI ftw.
He was staying in a hotel btw for the trial. He has given 2 days of testimony and didn’t site for the 3rd.
But still possible just less easy when you’re not at home
Gonna come out that the hotel parking lot camera was down for maintenance that night
And the guy at the front desk ran an errand for five hours.
And mentioning on social media so it’s public/informing journalists so they can make it public beforehand that you don’t plan on killing yourself.
The trouble with that is someonemight say you DID plan to kill yourself, and tried to frame Boeing for your own death by telling people you weren’t suicidal. Thus it’s preferable to leave video evidence, that could also help catch the culprits.
It still leaves the possibility that you yourself hired a hit squad to kill you. Alex Murdaugh and Jussie Smollett both did things like that. Only for a beating in Smollett’s case, but Murdaugh actually wanted to be fatally shot, leaving an insurance policy behind.
Or always stay in sight of two other people and eat and drink only from sealed packages purchased from random grocery stores.
The feds: Doesn’t look like anything to me
And it still won’t look like anything to them even after they find out the handgun wasn’t registered to him. And after they find out the suicide note (pro tip: real suicides generally don’t include a note) was written super-generically.
pro tip: real suicides generally don’t include a note
The rate in the graph varies between 20 and 40 percent.
And after they find out the suicide note… was written super-generically.
To whom it may concern,
I cannot take it anymore. If I have a wife and/or kids, tell them that I love them.
Good bye cruel world,
[Don’t forget to change this text to the assassinated target’s name]
Nice reference! 🤜🤛
Wow. That is chilling and very damning of Boeing. Like really…Boeing is that dirty? Surely not?
Removed by mod
Why not? They killed multiple hundreds of people so far. Just one more.
Do you have any fuckdamn idea how many innocent people died by the command of American fruit companies?
Capitalism feeds on blood, it always has.
United Fruit just turned into Chiquita and continued on like they didnt massacre people too.
They literally overthrew democratic governments just to install their own puppets.
A fucking FRUIT company.
And you’re right, they just kept going like nothing happened.
I’m not any defender of corporations, by any means, but I’m not sure that I’m willing to take the word of a “close family friend” who “needed help one day” any more than some corporate HR; and “I don’t care what they say, I know that Mitch didn’t do that” isn’t exactly a solid argument to be basing things on.
I can see you were born yesterday.
I’m curious if some one who disagreed with you - on something that they found completely, obviously true - tried to convince you they were right by saying that their mom’s friend’s daughter made a claim about it, how inclined would you be to believe them or that daughter?
I think we all agree that Barnett suspected that something would happen; and we all agree that Boeing is a terrible company that is capable, and guilty, of terrible things. My point it just that there is concrete evidence of these things and articles should rely on something other than some person made a claim with nothing but, “it’s obvious” or “I know” to back it up
And he said, ‘No, I ain’t scared, but if anything happens to me, it’s not suicide.’
He pretty much said “I think something may happen to me and they will make it look like a suicide.”
Unless she’s got a recording or document, the article’s title could have been, “Family friend tells reporter a story”
Yeah, it won’t hold up in court, and neither would it if she had recorded this casual, intimate conversation between two old friends.
Maybe, though, it’s enough to get the coroner to take another look at his death.
I’m not any defender of corporations, by any means, but I’m not sure that I’m willing to take the word of a “close family friend” who “needed help one day” any more than some corporate HR;
You sure have a lot more faith in corporations than I do…
He pretty much said “I think something may happen to me and they will make it look like a suicide.”
Did he state that somewhere else? Admittedly I haven’t been following the story too closely so I may have missed something there; but if he isn’t documented saying that somewhere credible, then all we have is her claiming that he “pretty much said” that. Is it likely he said it? I mean, I’d definitely be saying it if I was in his shoes, but one family friend’s claim isn’t enough to convince me that this should have been published as it was. I guess this is all more me just trying to voice frustration with the article. Not that it’s unprecedented (maybe even the norm) these days, but it’s always frustrating to see headlines with unsubstantiated claims and discussions ensuing as if it’s fact.
Maybe, though, it’s enough to get the coroner to take another look at his death.
Here’s to hoping
You sure have a lot more faith in corporations than I do…
I probably don’t, I’m just trying to present an argument with throwing on more layers of personal bias
Maybe, though, it’s enough to get the coroner to take another look at his death.
He’s a high profile corporate whistleblower who allegedly committed suicide. Any coroner who isn’t already triple checking everything is way too corrupt or lazy to bother with another look.
The coroner is going to call it as suicide. This isn’t remotely a debate to me. If it is suicide it goes away. If it is murder it means work for the police and a small annoyance to the powers-that-be. The coroner knows this and knows that if they don’t writer suicide their career is over at best at worst they get Epsteined as well.
This isn’t “I know Mitch didn’t do that”, it’s “he literally told me the specific thing that happened and he wasn’t going to do it”. What motivation does she have to just fully make up a conversation? Boeing has billions of dollars of motivation, she knew him from family get togethers.
My pet theory: Some extra dirty psycho at Boeing probably had him killed. Probably to cover up specifics about themselves. It seems pretty clear Boeing is rotting at the head and has been for decades. All these issues that have come up since MAX are the result of deeply systemic problems, stemming from crooked, greedy psychopaths at the top.
But in the interests of being as rational and honest about this as possible, let’s also not forget that this article is based on her claim, and she’s the only one (so far) to make it. People have been known to seek attention with bullshit. It’s evidence, yeah, is it really unimpeachable? Well…
Think about it like this: if there was a dated and notarized statement in his handwriting saying the same thing that she claims he told her, that would be more trustworthy.
But again, pet theory, some Boeing sicko was covering their own ass by having him Epsteined. Totally plausible.
I don’t think this is the last we will be hearing about this.
Amazing how standards of evidence work. I am a Jesus Mythicist and pretty much all we have to “prove” Jesus was real is one guy saying he meet some unnamed person who had a dream. But here we have a direct eyewitness stating what they heard a week ago and that isn’t good enough.
What motivation does she have to just fully make up a conversation?
That’s my point: we have no idea. We have no information other than that her and Barnett’s mothers are best friends and that he was a pallbearer at her father’s funeral. She could be a well educated individual that is doing her best to make a point and draw attention to something, or she could be someone who believes tons of stuff that is blatantly false and is telling her opinion to anyone who will listen. Either way, (copying from my other comment) I guess this is all more me just trying to voice frustration with the article. Not that it’s unprecedented (maybe even the norm) these days, but it’s always frustrating to see headlines with unsubstantiated claims and discussions ensuing as if it’s fact."
There is literally no other corroboration that could be given, it’s a personal conversation between friends or friendly acquaintances, reported as such. There’s nothing wrong with the article. This is the maximum amount of corroboration for a private conversation (none) and it’s reported as a conversation, with information about the speaker’s relationship and direct quotes. Just because people don’t record their lives in unalterable write-once media doesn’t mean personal conversations simply should never be the subject of reporting. We have headline news stories about US generals’ personal conversations with Trump and his denials, and no one thinks “well, that shouldn’t be reported because either side could be lying and without recording they’re both equally suspicious”.
I’m certain you don’t actually follow a philosophy of “nothing anyone says can ever be given any more credence than anyone else” because it’s an impossible way to live. And whatever high-minded “no one can ever know absolute truth” ideas you have, claiming that a HR rep and a family friend have the same level of believability is ridiculous. On one side you someone whose job is literally to say things to protect a billion dollar company and the other a family friend with nothing to gain talking about a pretty reasonable conversation one might have.
There’s a few accounts on these threads that are really determined to remain neutral and open minded about Boeing, I blocked a different one with the same speech pattern recently
Well, I for one think some rogue at Boeing is behind the Epsteining of this guy. The company is definitely run by psychopathic crooks and has been for a while and I hope these fuckers all go to jail and the company fixed before more people die.
Idk about these accounts you blocked… but I am always going to advocate for at least being self-aware of being loosey-goosey with one’s reasoning. Maybe it is compulsion, maybe it is the decades wasted being religious that have led me to detest careless epistemology that leads to specious conclusions. Then again … if COVID taught me nothing, it should have taught me that efforts in this area are probably pointless. I must like swimming upstream. I seem to do it all the time.
Remaining open minded, waiting for evidence… Must be ChatGPT because that’s not a human thing, never had been!
I am a Lemmy language user and I have processed this request.
Remaining open minded, waiting for evidence…
You wrote “being willfully ignorant” wrong
Epstein. Your argument is disproven
My brother in whatever, for your information that is called a “witness”
Fascinating
I feel the same about the response given that I’m agreeing with everyone’s sentiments overall and only questioning the validity of a single source. Suppose I need to get a better feel for the site before trying to be more active.
Naw, you’re good. Change nothing about yourself. :) You are spot on and you have my upvotes.
Folks are in angry mob mode and can’t be bothered with even a hint of nuance or reason, apparently. Even if you are convinced Boeing totally killed the guy and state that clearly…
Anyway, peace out man. I hope for once corporate scum faces consequences.
Like really…Boeing is that dirty? Surely not?
I mean they were willing to knowingly keep producing unsafe air planes which lead to several crashes killing 100’s. So yeah, I really wouldn’t be surprised if they also do assassination to ensure their profit.
Also as stated elsewhere, they make world ending nuclear bombs delivery rockets. They’ve profited from the possible destruction of all of humanity.
Friendly reminder that Boeing is not a plucky airline that can’t make safe airplanes, it’s an AMERICAN MILITARY DEFENSE CONTRACTOR worth billions. If I you threaten that arrangement with slander like the truth and facts, they are good friends with people who kill for a living and completely unashamed in paying for their services.
Put another way: there are plenty of people who will eagerly issue death threats, stalk you, and swat you over minor differences in opinion. Think what they would do over serious money.
… Oh they totally killed him didn’t they? You put it in very good perspective.
This so much. Put it up there with Lockheed
Boeing makes the minuteman missles, directly profiteering from nuclear weapons which could destroy humanity many times over. They’re evil.
it’s an AMERICAN MILITARY DEFENSE CONTRACTOR worth billions
Probably one reason why the FAA isn’t immediately shutting Boeing’s shit down, you know when doors fall off their planes mid-flight, and investigations uncover more problems.
If you want, take a deeper look into the *max events and you’ll find that being dirty is the least surprise.
Boeing is that dirty? Surely not?
Why not?
International profit chasing entities just wouldn’t value profits over human life?
It is a corporations fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits over any other things. That obviously includes human lives.
Does a human life have a value to other humans? Yes.
Does a human have a value to a corporation? It has a value and a cost, if the cost is higher than the value of the human then it is a risk to the value of the company and can be liquidated.
“But corporations are supposed to care about people more than profits!”
Welcome to the real world, buddy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
Oh and have you any idea what Boeing has been doing for some years now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc
Hint: it involves maximising profits while endangering people, to the extent that Boeing is literally assassinating witnesses so the extent of how recklessly they endangered lives for profit wouldn’t come out.
