I always figured LTT was a boy’s club, considering how few female employees they have, but I had no idea the environment was that bad. Rather naive of me, tbh.
Ugh, I don’t think I can continue watching anything from LTT anymore. 😭 I hope Madison is doing better these days.
Edit: I’ve zero issues blocking bad actors. =)
And this is why Lienus hates unions so much, cause it would have held him and his company accountable for the nasty, abusive shit they do behind the scenes.
Am I missing something? When had he expressed his hatred for unions? As a union man, if he had said something like that it would’ve pricked my ears. As far as I know, he’s said that he doesn’t want his employees to feel like they need a union, but wouldn’t stand in their way if they wanted one, which is about as good as it gets for a North American business owner.
If this stuff is true then they should unionize immediately. Solidarity Forever
Edit: I’m not going to double down. This was a blind spot for me, maybe because my union is already established and fairly strong, but I’ll hold this L and learn from it
in one of the WAN shows he went on a big handwringing tirade about how “unions means I’m a failure as an employer” with undertones of “You wouldnt want to make me a failure by unionizing, right?”
Okay. So I’m not missing something. I guess I heard him say that it “would be a personal failure for him as an employer” as him taking personal responsibility for his employees’ treatment. A charitable interpretation, but just a difference of opinion.
I can see how people can interpret what he says as soft anti-union, it’s just weird to see you and others say things like this as if he’s sober sort of Robber Baron.
Edit: I’m not going to double down. This was a blind spot for me, maybe because my union is already established and fairly strong, but I’ll hold this L and learn from it
Employers by nature seek profit above all.
Unions by nature seek improved wages and conditions for the employees above all.
Since the positions are diametrically opposed, we must evaluate all employer speech concerning unionization through this lens.
What I see is an employer trying to keep his reputation use deceptive doublespeak to discourage unionization among his employees.
Employers by nature seek profit above all.
That’s may be true for publicly traded companies, but for privately owned companies, that’s not necessarily true, especially owner-operated businesses like LMG (I know he hired a CEO, but Linus seems to be very involved still). Profit is certainly a concern, and it needs to be a concern for the long-term viability of the company, but employers can be driven by something else. For example:
- Gamer’s Nexus - seems largely motivated by integrity in tech journalism, and you can see it in how they spend their money (I doubt they turn a profit on the case reviews, they’re building a high quality anechoic chamber, etc)
- Valve - selling the Steam Deck at that price point was “painful,” and they still have a very open work environment from what I understand
- my previous employer - small business, made security hardware for businesses and military; my boss’ stated goal was to save lives, and I think he did a good job sticking to that, at least until he essentially sold his stake in the business (coincidentally when I left)
LMG could absolutely fit that mold. He seems to still have a passion for the tech first, though he has been shilling his merch a lot harder over the last couple years, so maybe his mindset is changing.
My point is that companies don’t necessarily seek profit above all else, but they do need to seek profit at some level to maintain the long-term viability of the company. That said, most companies do seek profit above all else, and you should absolutely have that be your default assumption, but leave room for owner-operated shops to actually care about their products and customers above profit.
Unions by nature seek improved wages and conditions for the employees above all.
Again, I disagree. Maybe unions start that way, but they operate like any other political entity where they largely want employees to keep paying the union dues, and the union management likely wants to increase their own salaries. So their focus is on doing something so they can convince members to increase their dues, and that something doesn’t necessarily have to be in the best interests of the members, it only needs to be convincing enough that people will agree to the dues increase.
That said, unions are probably more likely to seek improved conditions for their employees than an employer, just make sure your union leadership is good so you don’t get screwed over by nonsense. Some unions operate more like HOAs, where it’s more of a power trip than an actual mutually-beneficial relationship.
What I see is an employer trying to keep his reputation use deceptive doublespeak to discourage unionization among his employees.
I see the same, but that’s because when in doubt, I prefer to side with the weaker party. I still want to see more facts emerge before I start urging others to avoid LMG, I’m not going through that effort on a hunch.
You are a union man? Go speak with your fellow union people who work with negotiations and forming chapters and ask them what it means when a company says “we are pro unions but we feel it isn’t a good fit for us and we would have failed as a company if our employees would feel like they would need one”.
Hint: it’s something like “get the fuck out with the union shit, I’ll fire y’all”
Fair enough. I’m not going to double down. This was a blind spot for me, maybe because my union is already established and fairly strong, but I’ll hold this L and learn from it
I would just like to give props to you for owning up and listening to the information. I do not in any way think that you were wrong in your reasoning, just that there was more context that is likely relevant which you hadn’t been privy to, and once you were informed of it you reevaluated. Not everyone does that and I think a very valuable part of this community is when people do that (I know I’m not always particularly good at it myself).
Yeah, for me, a company having a union shouldn’t really have much of an effect if they are actually treating their employees well.
What wage discrepancies would there be to negotiate? Why would there be any arguing over allotted sick time? Why would an employee have a grievance against a company that they would need legal support for?
A company that truly wants to treat it’s employees well should already be on board with all of that stuff. In fact, I’d almost even argue that they should want a union.
Yeah, in the unlikely event I was ever in such a position, advocating my hypothetical employees to unionize for their own interests against mine (no matter how much I may try to cede or be considerate) seems like the bare minimum. Other options would maybe include making it a workers co-op or something.
Definitely charitable. My interpretation of his statement is that his idea of failure is unions because his idea of success is screwing over his employees.
Nah, don’t take an L. Some people who say that genuinely mean it, and I think an owner-operator business like LTT might fit the bill for someone who does actually mean it.
That said, it’s the same weasel-language that many corporations use that are actually anti-union and would be willing to squash a union if people started to unionize. I see some of that at my place of work (I’m not in a union, no talk of a union), but again, I know my immediate leadership to know that their heart is in the right place, but that they could be forced to do something they don’t like from higher-ups (e.g. we are going from 2-days in-office to 3-days in-office due to higher-ups, we’ll see if my boss actually campaigns for going back to 2-days in-office once the initial fervor dies down).
Yeah I remember listening to that WAN show, double speak for sure.
Yep, he got caught with his manipulative word play this time by GN, but it also gives context for everything he’s said in the past and puts new light on them, because this isnt something people just wake up and decide to do one day. Its something they do their entire life.
Why would “you wouldn’t want to make me a failure by unionizing” convince anyone not to unionize? You think poorly treated employees give a shit about their boss’ feelings? Put down the armchair psychology textbook and listen to the guy, he flat out says he supports unions and workers’ right to organize against antagonistic leadership.
he said he supported unions, but doesnt want a union at his business.
he said we should call out bad companies, until its his company thats being called out.
Says he cares about employees, but ignores sexual harassment, abuse, and overworks them beyond capacity.
He says a lot of shit, until hes on the receiving end of it.
Are you dense? He doesn’t want a union because in his mind, correctly, it would mean he’s a terrible person. Not every workplace needs a union.
He types all this out, but has the audacity to call me the dense one.
I swear to god, these linus fart huffers…
Based edit. Also, happy you’re in a union <3
which is about as good as it gets for a North American business owner.
Meanwhile, Dave Oshry being a fucking chad (yes I know he lives in NZ, but he’s from the US)
spoiler
Sorry to anyone for whom spoilers don’t work
My heart breaks for Madison because as a woman in tech myself, many of her experiences sound familiar. HR leaders, in many companies, exist primarily to serve the executive team and play PR for them. I’ve met very few who truly have employees backs and even they’re considered rebels. The best option most of the time is to leave the company because even if they call in a 3rd party, it’s lawsuit prevention and not an attempt to fix things. If anyone is in a situation where they’re the victim of inappropriate behavior and the company brings in their lawyer to talk to everyone, do not talk to them. They’re just gathering information so they can refute claims if litigation is presented. They work for the company, not you.
Jesus, never trust HR, ever!
I thought everyone understood this. They work for the company, not for you.
There are a lot of weird people in tech. They end up there because computers dont require social skills.
But there are also a lot of really good and nice people. I never watched Linux tech tips because unlike most, I didn’t like him at all. His vibe is shitty. It’s obvious.
My colleagues at work are great though. But they don’t use social media, which I think is part of why they are great. The constant need to be seen must be unhealthy.
I’m going through it now after being terminated for having the gall to stand up after a store manager and the HR rep took advantage of an underaged girl. The Home Depot everybody. I’ve been essentially blacklisted in this shit city in a state that looks like a face.
I’m so sorry this happened to you but also proud of you for what you did. That takes a lot of courage and if you haven’t already, retaliation can be reported and you may still be able to collect unemployment. I wish you all the best in your job search
I was denied both my appeals today for unemployment. It will be retribution then.
This is good advice. Oftentimes, if the workplace really is that toxic, they have methods in place to keep being that way and punish whistleblowers.
It’s such a shame when great talent leaves the organisation because of the continued primitive traits. It must be so exhausting.
I never publicly made any statements regarding my time there because I feared even more backlash from a community that was already attacking, defaming, and sending me death threats.
Fuck man, pretty much nobody should have to deal with that.
I was actually called a tattle tale
Been there done that.
“snitches get stiches” is the phrase I’ve been told many times
I was told I was arguing, when I was trying to discuss my point of view.
This too
I remember getting told off for taking my sick days, as in the days you’re entitled to.
I am still, to this day, hesitant to take days off from this kind of shit
I was asked to twerk for a co-worker at one point.
I know some ladies who were asked by the CFO of a previous company to jump in place while to get a company t-shirt that other employees received.
I was told I was chunky, fat, ugly, stupid. I was called “removed” I was called a “removed”
I was called “stupid” to my face in an open office with fifty other staff in the room.
I was also the one tasked with managing the Only Fans account.
Something I said I didn’t want to do.
I had to read comments from people talking about how they wanted to fuck me and my co workers.
I saw peoples dicks, and vagina’s.
I said no, and was told only a little longer.
You should never be obligated to do things you don’t want to do. No job is worth it.
Please don’t attack individuals who don’t actually have power at this company, most of them are blameless or powerless to actually change anything.
This absolutely. For every one person who speaks up there are usually multiple tens who do not.
Also “why didn’t you take legal actions”
Many of them don’t know better. Many of them feel like they’re trapped: they require the paycheck and so they feel obligated to endure abuses.
… Or, at least, that’s been my experience with employers. To be clear: I do not, and have not, worked for LMG. I’m not trying to make it about me, just trying to relate. It’s unfortunate easy to relate.
She’s got some tough issues and I wish her to have better employment opportunities in the future.
These days I work for a company where “everything is awesome” and I get to work on really cool things every day without too much drama. I wish everyone could do that. I certainly couldn’t have without deciding to leave an abusive employer. I encourage everyone to seek better employment if you feel like you can relate to any of the issues she’s brought up.
So here’s some tips. There’s a lot to unpack though.
- keep a personal record. Keep it at home. If it’s on a computer or phone then keep it on a personal one so you still have it if you do quit or are fired. Write down the good times and the bad times.
- if you’re hourly, make sure to include your clock-in and clock-out times
- if you live in a single-party-recording-consent state, then record your conversations
- if anything comes up, your personal records can be admissible in court
- if nothing comes up then at least you can look back at your records and remember how often good things or bad things happen. it will help you to make decisions objectively and judge your emotions for them
Sending unsolicited sexually explicit messages (even just text) or images is a federal crime and can be included in sexual harassment claims. If your employer does not address the problem then your employer may be held accountable. It’s important that you keep records of your complaint to your employer and their inaction!
So, learn about harassment and discrimination laws. Everyone has a right to not be harassed (sexually or otherwise) or discriminated against. You can file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Office or your state’s equivalent (not all states have an equivalent).
This is an excellent and thoughtful response. Thank you for taking the time.
Agreed. Also thanks to you for noticing and hilighting the value of their response. An equally awesome move.
There is great content here on Lemmy. A welcome change from that other place if I might say. Cheers.
Thanks :)
I’m not party to the accusations. Things can be interpreted many ways. So I tried to keep an open mind and my response fairly applicable to anyone in general.
It’s clear that someone is being deceptive. I have no idea whether it’s some of the LMG team or Madison. I have to trust someone claiming to be a victim though.
These are serious, possibly criminal, accusations that Madison is making on a very public platform. Big accusations like this honestly belong to the courts and I hope that courts will figure out the truth – that’s what they’re there for. If it all just boils down to PR and settlements out of court then IMO that is a miscarriage of justice for every would-be third party victim of harassment.
It’s true that just about any online platform has to deal with sexually explicit content. But OnlyFans has a particular reputation about it. So if LMG has an OnlyFans account and she was managing, producing for, or interacting with it then I most certainly believe she’d have been exposed to sexually explicit material. If I were to investigate, I’d start truth-finding from there: find out what management’s policies are/were with regards to dealing with that content and find out what actual actions were taken for that content. Subpoena OnlyFans to produce copies of the content and correlate their own reports of whatever action LMG claims to have taken. From there, the rest of the accusations will fall into place with weight.
Whether or not the accusations are true or not, you gave excellent life advice imho.
Onlyfans might indeed have something to say here. Let us hope they do.
Adding this link for Canadian workers: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/workplace-health-safety/harassment-violence-complaint.html
Sending unsolicited sexually explicit messages (even just text) or images is a federal crime and can be included in sexual harassment claims.
Are US and Canada law similar in that aspect?
I’m a citizen of the USA and have only worked for US businesses. I don’t know about Canadian law (nor am I a lawyer in the US) but I would be surprised and saddened if they don’t have a strong legal system to protect victims.
Thanks for this! I’m a male manager of a team of mostly men and one woman, and we have a handful of other women on our broader team.
Fortunately, our company has never done any of this nonsense, and I hope nobody in our department (or company for that matter) would ever think of it. Our head of HR is female, as is our department’s HR rep, and we did a big push for DEI training over the last couple of years (the best company meeting imo was a Q&A with a panel of women, immigrants, and racial minorities). That has mostly run its course, but we still have mandatory, short, digital trainings every year, and a longer in-person one for new hires that repeats every few years for existing hires.
I’m going to bring up some of these points with the women on my team and ask them politely to let me know if they have anything they’d like to mention. It’s hard enough to attract women in my field (software development), so I want to keep whatever women we can find. But if my company is not a healthy working environment for anyone on my team, I would prefer they leave than continue somewhere they don’t feel comfortable, but I’d like the opportunity to try to fix the problem first.
So thanks again! I hope you’re in a better work environment now.
deleted by creator
- keep a personal record. Keep it at home. If it’s on a computer or phone then keep it on a personal one so you still have it if you do quit or are fired. Write down the good times and the bad times.
What the actual fuck
I mean, in hindsight, I don’t know why I assumed differently. If it looks like a bro club…
Makes you wonder about Maxine leaving now.
No it doesn’t. She moved far up North to be with her boyfriend. Can you stop trying to make shit up?
Wondering why previous employees left after the workplace is revealed to be a toxic, abusive shithole is not making things up.
But it is speculation.
Which, as you may note by your own word choice, isnt “making things up”
Its speculation based on new information.
Yes speculation. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.
Thats the same reason I gave a really crappy company for leaving too. Not saying it’s the exact same situation, but just wanted to point out that people sometimes lie to protect their place in their profession.
Especially if you’re “enemy” has a fanatic fanbase. You come up with a reason that doesn’t set the fanboys on a rampage against you. I think this is a fair thing to wonder.
Exactly, especially in the SM space where you’d likely want to get LMG to help you get off the ground, or at least a channel friendly with LMG.
Get out of here if you’re just going to keep defending a $100 million corporation like it’s your job
Defending? She literally said that…
And as others have pointed out… what she said falls perfectly in line with what someone afraid of recriminations would say, when trying to quietly exit a toxic workplace.
Seriously… are you Linus? I am failing to see why you have so much skin in this.
I’d like to think that it’s generally safe to assume that a company doesn’t conduct itself in this manner, but employers will always be incentivized to exploit it’s workers so we must be ever vigilant.
Wow. I’m glad she spoke up and I hope she’s doing better now. I hope more people at LTT are empowered to speak out/leave by her courage.
Just imagine how bad it is, behind closed doors and with the Cameras off, considering what the employees said in that LTT employee opinion video on camera, that GN repeatedly referenced, that they were over worked and didnt have time to make anything right.
What a shit place to work at. Linus sounds like a real “winner”.
He and his/team’s content always came off to me as basement dwelling PC gamers trying to be real IT professionals. Garbage content and apparently a garbage company.
I’m neither close to this (I’ve seen a few LTT vids here and there) nor that interested in dogpiling or anything … but this is exactly what LTT/LMG and Linus himself always felt like to me and it always kinda creeped me out. Like I’d watch something and get that feeling of, am I the only one seeing that or is it me?
No. I’m just a “level 1” tech that have been doing this for many years, and I’ve always seen him and most of his channels as unprofessional, with the exception of the person now named Emily.
Linus himself didn’t seem like a great tech to me, mostly because he seem to struggle with anything else than Windows. I don’t care that much about hardware because I have been gravitating around hosting, mainframes (IBM i) and corporate so his channels and benchmarks are not of great interest to me. But that experience helped me see in his other tech videos that he was not serious.
And the way he “used” his employees to do anything unrelated to their job definition was weird. Like, I’m a tech and can install cable, but there’s people that you should hire for that. It’s not my job to move desks around or paint the walls while also having to do my regular tasks. Should have been the same with his employees.
He gave the impression of being someone that will use the “we’re just one big family” excuse to get his employees to do anything, while talking superficially about Windows computers and pushing merch.
I ended up asking YouTube not to recommend any of his channels.
I don’t think it’s fair to criticize his usage of employees… He’s operating a media company and all of his upgrades are essentially glorified media operations. Everyone on camera is a media personality playing a role.
The point isn’t to get cable installed, it’s to have an engaging personality on camera doing something interesting. Getting cable installed is a happy coincidence.
Even then, he shouldn’t have asked his employees to work on his home renovation.
Wasn’t all the “work” explicitly recorded for use as content? (And they hired a painter anyway)
Reading that made me sick to my core
Our HR team will be conducting a more thorough assessment of the allegations,
Tip for LMG: don’t have the founder’s wife be head of HR.
She’s not - Yvonne is accounting and business, I’ve never heard of her as being remotely involved with the HR department.
I’ve heard similar before about her being HR in addition to CFO, but I went to confirm on their site and they don’t list anyone as HR staff that I could find.
I believe Linus said they have an external HR contract now. Yvonne was HR when they were much smaller.
That makes sense
HRs job is to protect the company… from employees. So they dont sue.
So they pressure the leadership: you cant do this, because then X will sue.
You cant do that coz then the government will give us a large fine etc etc
Thwy are not there to help the employees. At all. Ever. Lol.
This is the leat surprising information anyone could have told me about working for LTT/LMG. Time and time again, tech jobs and game dev jobs in workplaces run by “old internet edgelords” always (always) results in shit like this.
I believe her.
I have been in the tech industry for almost 30 years. These things she talks about are not new and will keep happening unless more people talk about them. I gave that Linus guy a listen once or twice, was never impressed. His fans are delusional, this thread contains a few of them!
Agreed. However, I still want to see facts, because it is possible that she’s exaggerating. Until I see facts, I’m going to believe Madison.
That said, I rarely watch LTT or any related channels. I find them to be shallow, often click-bait, and their merch advertising is incredibly annoying. I get my tech news and entertainment from other channels, such as Gamer’s Nexus, Level1Techs, Louis Rossmann, OptimumTech, Tech Ingredients, and SomeOrdinaryGamers.
I don’t understand the rabid following LMG has, but I do try to be objective in my criticism. I think GN’s coverage recently was pretty revealing (the one about testing quality), especially when paired with this article.
What is she exaggerating? It’s her perspective. The things she described are not exaggerating.
I don’t know, that’s why I want to see more facts about the situation.
So that’s why I’m defaulting to believing the victim until I have evidence to the contrary. She has provided her side, I’m waiting for LMG to provide theirs.
I’m going to copy and paste my comment from another post here:
If this is true this is bad. Like, really bad
I say “if” just because I don’t really know what the facts are, I just know what some people are claiming
To be clear, I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m just saying that, at the moment, it’s just Madison saying these things did happen and Linus essentially saying they didn’t
My question is if she had such a bad experience, why hasn’t anyone else said anything, or at least put an anonymous negative review on Glassdoor or something? Did she just have a awful experience that was unusual, or is everyone/a large number of people treated like this? I don’t think it’s the second or it would’ve come out already and from more than one source (and the turnover is pretty low for LMG if I’m not mistaken, so that also doesn’t make sense), but I don’t really know. That’s really the crux of the situation, is I just don’t know. I’m glad they got an outside investigator though; hopefully that’ll clear everything up
why hasn’t anyone else said anything,
People don’t speak up for many reasons. Retaliation is a big thing: if you speak up then your job there is toast whether or not you’re still employed there. You still “have” to work with or around the people you’re accusing, until and unless you leave. Have you ever had to work with someone who’s abused you? It’s… not fun.
If you need the money, you’re kind’ve stuck: if you quit then you have to have a savings account to keep you afloat while you look for another job. While you’re looking for another job, your accusations here can prevent you from getting another job. Whether or not you leave, you still have to deal with the fallout: investigations take time, especially your time. If you have to take time off of work (eg, to see an attorney or visit a court) then that time might not be paid – can you afford to take that time off? Worse; you might even have to pay someone for that time (eg, an attorney). Can you afford that? That’s especially true if your compensation barely meets your financial obligations such that you’re not really able to put away savings. There’s a term for that: wage slave. Those costs are partly why there’s government agencies designed to help you.
Thoughts about cost is just the tip of the iceberg. Many don’t realize that they’re being abused. A lot of people don’t realize that others might also be victims too. Some people trivialize it. Friends around you tell you that it’s “normal” behavior or that it’s normal for coworkers to “socialize” and banter, that they didn’t mean anything about it. People start to second-guess themselves.
When’s the last time your company gave you anti-harassment training? If it’s been more than a year (or never) then you might want to speak up about it and ask for it to be provided. Or, reach out to your government agency and ask for some training guidance.
or at least put an anonymous negative review on Glassdoor or something?
Glassdoor is notoriously business-friendly. It’s fairly trivial for businesses to have reviews removed.
I knew speaking up publicly wasn’t very likely for most for the reasons you talked about and I was more expecting anonymous complaints, maybe didn’t phrase that part well
For the anonymous negative review, I didn’t mean just Glassdoor, I meant in general we haven’t really heard very much negative about working at LMG besides it’s somewhat stressful because of the fast pace at which everything runs. If it was as bad for everyone as Madison claims it was for her (reiterating, not claiming it didn’t happen, just we don’t know anything definitively yet) then at least one other person in the 100+ person company would have contacted someone like the Verge or Coffeezilla or anyone else who does news/exposés. Even if most were trivializing it, there should be at least more than just Madison realizing it with how bad she was saying it was. Also, she talked about some of her coworkers apologizing to her for others’ actions, so at least some of them realize that not everything is just “normal”
For the anonymous negative review, I didn’t mean just Glassdoor, I meant in general we haven’t really heard very much negative about working at LMG besides it’s somewhat stressful because of the fast pace at which everything runs. If it was as bad for everyone as Madison claims it was for her (reiterating, not claiming it didn’t happen, just we don’t know anything definitively yet) then at least one other person in the 100+ person company would have contacted someone like the Verge or Coffeezilla or anyone else who does news/exposés. Even if most were trivializing it, there should be at least more than just Madison realizing it with how bad she was saying it was. Also, she talked about some of her coworkers apologizing to her for others’ actions, so at least some of them realize that not everything is just “normal”
I’ve been at companies with 150+ employees where people didn’t speak up in official complaints about perceived or observed issues. We’d all go to a bar after work and talk about things after a few drinks. I don’t know how many things weren’t mentioned at the bar and I certainly didn’t go to every company social event. “Keep things in the family” was a strong sentiment. Were things mentioned online? I’m aware that we did end up with some very poor Glassdoor and Indeed reviews – those were shared directly to me by former employees. But those eventually disappeared. So, after some time, generally nope.
Several people, including myself, would bottle up the problems and just decide to leave after the bottle filled. It’s not healthy to keep that bottle full and it’s a personal decision about whether to raise the concerns or find employment elsewhere.
I’m no saint. I’ve made mistakes and I’ve had some talkings-to about them, both at the bar and outside of it. I’ve learned from them. It’s important for everyone to admit when they make mistakes and talk about what they’ve learned from them. It’s part of the reason why anti-harassment is one of the things I’m passionate about.
So I’m speaking from third party (w.r.t. LMG) experience. So, back to the topic at hand.
Perhaps people did speak up about LMG but those complaints didn’t weren’t public or didn’t gain public traction. For example, I remember some drama about Linus and Naomi Wu a few years ago. What came of that? Those events aren’t (as far as I’m aware of) related to Madison Reeves. But honestly it doesn’t matter except that, if true, it can set a pattern.
I don’t think anyone should assume that people would have spoken up about issues prior to Madison. Even if someone did, Madison’s statements deserve to be viewed on their own merit regardless of other people’s statements. Now that the accusations are public, if they bring other statements public, then those can be viewed in their own light as well.
Perhaps there’s someone from LMG who will provide a contrasting experience. That would be interesting. Even if that happens, quite honestly, the investigation should default to being private until and unless one party chooses to share more information.
Madison’s statements deserve to be viewed on their own merit regardless of other people’s statements
I honestly and wholeheartedly agree with this. Anytime there’s a problem of this nature it should be looked into and investigated. My main point is just, at this point, it’s hard to definitively know the exact, full truth (again, just to be clear not saying it didn’t).
the investigation should default to being private until and unless one party chooses to share more information
Given how personal and private this investigation is, I wouldn’t want the specific details to be released unless Madison/others who were hurt want to reveal their own details. However, I would hope whoever does the investigation would reveal simply if this is true or not and if so to what extent (like is everything Madison said 100% true, is most of it, is a little, or none of it)
Edit: Apparently the CEO said they will publish the findings of the external investigation, which is good. He seems like he wants to tell the truth, so that’s good.
I would hope whoever does the investigation would reveal simply if this is true or not and if so to what extent (like is everything Madison said 100% true, is most of it, is a little, or none of it)
Keep it balanced. The investigation should only state what changes to the company are recommended as a result of the investigation. If staffing changes are recommended, then no statement of why. Further information is relevant only to the parties involved. Anything else can cause further problems.
I just found out the CEO said they will publish the findings of the external investigation, and I think they won’t release anything that’s personal unless the victim themselves wants it released as that would just make the situation worse (on top of just not being a nice thing to do)
This dropped a few hours ago, so let’s wait a bit and see. Often times rot gets exposed in waves. One skeleton falls out of the closet and then a bunch of other skeletons follow.
Even if Madison is the only employee that ever experienced this (doubtful) that is already horrific. She isn’t claiming that it was a single small incident that might have been a bad joke or a misinterpretation of some comment. It’s a bunch of incidents, so not like one thing got blown way out of proportion.
Why has nobody else said anything before? There’s tons of reasons why that might be the case. First, maybe people have and it has remained internal/supressed. Maybe other instances were more “mild” and the victims didn’t feel the need to quit. Maybe the other victims were too frightened, felt they had too much to lose, were pressured more harshly.
I’m standing with Madison until proven otherwise. There have been plenty of hints of this sort of thing for a while, and like I said, scandals tend to come in waves. Nobody says anything for a long time until something bad enough happens that triggers the cascade of testimonies.
Best case scenario, LTT is a toxic workplace that overworks its employees, places profit and marketability over quality data/reviews, and is more and more in bed with corporate powers vs consumers.
Sad, I grew up with LTT through my tech journey, now bye-bye to yet another company/project that fell to the effects of capitalism and enshitification.
CEO said the external investigation’s results will be made public, so I’ll wait to make my opinions then. However, if it turns out they’re true, then they’ll lose a large part of their fanbase, including me.
I dunno, Linus recognized the fact he is not a good CEO and hired a replacement to fix that problem. If the investigation comes back that there were issues and the perpetrators are purged from the company (or at least severely sanctioned) then I’m willing to give Terran a chance to right the ship
I should clarify: if the allegations are true, then they will need to handle it well to convince me to stay. If they just do a mediocre job then I’ll probably just dip
Shoulda recognized that 10 years ago
10 years ago they were like 5 guys in a rental house. Completely different situation
It’s possible their turnover is low enough that a Glassdoor review would be easy to figure out the author, even if anonymous
Yup, I worked at a small-ish company (~50 employees) and it would be very easy to identify an anonymous post. ~100 employees isn’t that much larger, so I’m guessing most people know each other there (see Dunbar’s Number).
So I, for one, would probably hesitate to leave a negative review, especially in a social space like YouTube where you could potentially call in a collab to get a new channel up and going.
My current company is a few thousand, and my office is ~200 people (half on a separate floor), and I just don’t know more than ~30. So there seems to be a point where there’s enough people that I don’t go out of my way to get to know others. But I’m guessing at LTT, most people in each building know each other because the company is small enough.
Very true
This reads like every rape apologist asking why the person didn’t react like your idea of an “ideal victim”.
To be clear I’m NOT saying that you would ever help create a permissive environment that passively encourages the type of behaviors described in her post, my question is just why you’d feel compelled to write 750 words of “I’m just asking” around your structural dismissal?
Wouldn’t you realize that you’re parroting a rhetorical style that has been used to justify and paper over mistreatment of women in business and personal settings? If this were a good faith statement why would it repeat every trope trotted out by Joe Tacopina?
I just don’t know, I’m not saying I do or do not think that OP’s statement is an example of unwitting enrollment in institutional sexism, or whether I do or do not think it’s trolling.
I just don’t know.
I don’t think OP has any reason to side with Linus here, I think the thrust is just that there’s only two pieces of evidence here, and both from people with opposite motives.
I’m more likely to believe Madison here, but I think there’s a good chance she’s overreacting too. It seems she was treated poorly, and that makes it easier to justify exaggeration.
I’m not particularly hopeful that an external investigation will really help here (after all, they’re likely being paid by LMG), so I’m hopeful that some current or previous employees can corroborate at least some of the claims.
So I guess I’m kind of siding with the OP here, I’m going to reserve judgement until I have more evidence. If I had to pick today, I’d probably side with Madison because her motives to lie are weaker.
Even if the external investigators are good and it is truly the intention of upper management to get to the bottom of it and they are fully prepared to fire anyone who did something wrong, (I’m not casting doubt on their motives) I truly believe that the external investigation will clear them or they’ll point to 1 person and fire them.
Reason being is memories fade, fear of reprisals, people make excuses or believe certain things weren’t as they were, and there is likely not a lot written down.
Unfortunately, it’s likely to be a he said/she said situation.
True. However, I can hope that, as a small-ish SM company, they’ll care enough to be more transparent than that.
$100M sounds like a lot for a company, but that’s still pretty small potatoes when it comes to companies. Some bad press could see a lot of viewers leave and the company could go under (or drastically scale back) very quickly. That’s just the nature of SM.
I think you’re probably right, but I’m optimistic that LMG will do more than most larger corporations do. I’m not expecting it though, just hopeful.
I never said that OP was “siding with Linus”, I said OP was using a rhetorical style that can be used to dismiss/minimize claims from pretty much anybody, regardless of the situation.
I wanted to call OP’s attention to the fact that that style of argumentation is used in bad faith more often than not.
More than a couple people in my life have been sexually assaulted and if you’ve ever actually been close to somebody who has, the callousness of the “well why didn’t you…” line of nitpicking is glaring.
Oh, I completely agree. I think the default should always be to side with the victim, even if there’s a good reason to doubt them.
I just think we sometimes go too far and ignore the other side when it doesn’t line up with what the victim says. Weigh the evidence and the motives of each party before making a decision. The bigger the power difference between the two, the more you should suspect the larger party of malice.
I’m more reacting to the strength of the language here, not the general idea.
I had a false accusation of sexual assault leveled against me in a court filing (as soon as we got in front of a judge it got tossed). It is pretty awful to have something like that stated about you in an official document, even when the outcome is “Dismissed”.
And fwiw, to take the Carroll case in NY, I thought the line of argument “she can’t remember what year it was?” was a pretty reasonable thing to have doubts about.
I’m talking about social media reactions here, not police policy.
The police should always assume innocence unless you have proof to the contrary, because the opposite is a potential loss of liberty for innocent people. If you’re a regular joe, you should side with the victim until the other side posts evidence to the contrary, because the opposite is potentially normalizing bad behavior of people in power.
why you’d feel compelled to write 750 words of “I’m just asking” around your structural dismissal
I wasn’t trying to dismiss what Madison said she went through, I want her to get justice if she went through it. I was trying to just say there are a few pieces of concrete evidence and the rest is he said she said, and I was also just trying to think aloud about what factors could have coalesced into the current situation.
The 750 words of “I’m just asking” are just from a combination of I talk/explain a lot and I also just wanted to be very clear that I wasn’t dismissing the subject because I am staunchly anti-harassment and abuse (also people on the internet notoriously can misinterpret/misunderstand things, including me)
Did that address everything?
Yup.
She did write a review on Glassdoor, and Linus downplayed it then IIRC
I know she did, but what I was saying was why didn’t anyone else (on Glassdoor or anywhere else) (also the downplaying isn’t very good, it was someone’s legitimate feelings even if you/others disagreed with them)
I only see two other reviews on their Glassdoor which are both positive, but that isn’t a lot so it’s hard to draw a definitive conclusion
Sure, it’s not a great indication. Everything I’ve seen so far, and the leaked 2021 meeting with James seeming to have made a sexual joke at the end of a sexual harassment meeting… it’s not looking great.
If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck… it might be a duck.
It very well might be… though I hope (less and less now) it’s just a weird pigeon
Edit: That recording of the team meeting with James’ joke really doesn’t help
A former employee of LTT responded to Madison’s departure announcement supporting her decision to leave LTT.
Here is the tiktok of the employee vagueposting about a possible toxic work environment. (Name is Maxine).
That link doesn’t work cuz the post is deleted, but here’s an archive of it
I’m a bit confused on how it supports her decision though, can you explain? (not saying it doesn’t, I’m just not into a ton of zoomer tiktok stuff and think there’s something I’m missing)
I forgot to mention that she showed support on a different platform, twitter .It all occurred at the same time, that’s why I lumped it all together. Can’t link since I don’t have an account. I’m pretty sure I saw people mentioning Max’s twitter support in the comments of the reddit post. It was in the form of a liked tweet which is big because everyone can see your liked tweets.
The old version of the post works but not the redesign for some reason.
I wasn’t aware of that leaked meeting. What are you refering to ?
There was a meeting the day after Madison quit, and at the end of the meeting, James seems to have made a joke about sexual harassment. It wasn’t a great look. That meeting recently leaked.
Ah yes this one. Quite awful indeed.
Linus is not declaratively stating it didn’t happen, he’s using PR doublespeak to minimize his legal exposure down the road.
That’s why I said “essentially saying they didn’t”. He’s doing it for business reasons, but at it’s core, his message was he wasn’t aware of it and didn’t think it was happening, while Madison was saying he did know and didn’t care Maybe one is lying, maybe both are, maybe neither are. At this point, we really can’t know until something like that third party investigator releases their results
at least put an anonymous negative review on Glassdoor
the review on glassdoor is hers.
I know, that’s why I meant someone besides Madison when I said anyone else. Sorry if that wasn’t clear
My question is if she had such a bad experience, why hasn’t anyone else said anything, or at least put an anonymous negative review on Glassdoor or something? […] (and the turnover is pretty low for LMG if I’m not mistaken, so that also doesn’t make sense)
Indeed, why is that? Why would she have such an abnormaly bad experience at this particular company? I can’t seem to think of any particular traits that she might have which would have caused her to be treated differently. If sexist comments and sexual harassment are such a problem, then why do people like Gary, James, Ed, Nick, Colton, or Luke apparently seem blind to it? I have no idea what disparity in the distribution of power could possibly account for this phenomenon!
The fact she is a woman is different than the majority, however there are other women at LMG and most likely/hopefully, not all the men at LMG are sexist so most likely at least one person from one of those camps would object/want to do/say something (I would hope little to none would be sexist, but we don’t work there so we don’t know)
But the point she is a woman makes it more likely/harder is entirely valid, yes
The fact she is a woman is different than the majority, however there are other women at LMG
I don’t know how to respond to this without speaking condescendingly. I’m sorry, but you’ll just have to trust me when I say that women can still be subjected to workplace harassment in situations where they aren’t literally the only girl in the building. I’ll leave it at that unless an actual woman wants to step in and expand on this subject further.
not all the men at LMG are sexist so most likely at least one person from one of those camps would object/want to do/say something
That’s just how power works. If you’re in the minority, your needs and concerns get less attention. If you’re in a very small minority, they become practically invisible. Organizations aren’t immune to this. Sexist outcomes can and will readily emerge from systems where none of the individuals directly intend to do a sexism.
As evidence, I’ll point to the statistic itself. A gender gap as steep as this one doesn’t happen by random chance. The only way you get this far skewed is with a feedback loop.
I’m sorry, but you’ll just have to trust me when I say that women can still be subjected to workplace harassment in situations where they aren’t literally the only girl in the building.
I didn’t mean it didn’t happen, what I meant is there are other people who would be going through the same thing she did. I understand that it happens that’s why I said your point about her being a woman is valid
That’s just how power works. If you’re in the minority, your needs and concerns get less attention. If you’re in a very small minority, they become practically invisible. Organizations aren’t immune to this. Sexist outcomes can and will readily emerge from systems where none of the individuals directly intend to do a sexism.
Again, I think you missed my point. I’m not saying it didn’t happen (or did; we still don’t have the report from the investigation), rather I’m just wondering why no one else said anything (again, just to be perfectly clear, I’M NOT SAYING IT DID OR DID NOT HAPPEN I’m just trying to understand the situation and how we got to this point. Maybe she was directly under a single person who was really bad. Maybe all the women are treated bad. We just don’t know, at least not until the results from the external investigation come out.)
You’re of course within your rights to remain unconvinced, but I fail to understand the mindset that would lead a reasonable bystander to look at what Ms. Reeves has said thus far and think “there’s a significant chance that this is untrue”. Why? For what purpose? She stands to gain nothing by lying unless you start imagining that a much broader conspiracy is somehow at play.
If you’re willing to entertain the idea of a hitherto unsubstantiated conspiracy from one side, then why not also suspect that LMG will conspire to hire a crooked auditor or otherwise hide unflattering findings? Why take anyone’s word for anything?
Why take anyone’s word for anything?
What I was trying to say is I’m not really taking anyone’s word for anything, I’m just trying to put the puzzle pieces together about what might have happened to result in the statements and facts we do know (which are really not a lot)
I fail to understand the mindset that would lead a reasonable bystander to look at what Ms. Reeves has said thus far and think “there’s a significant chance that this is untrue”
My mindset is this: I don’t know Madison, nor do I know Linus or anyone else at LMG. So I don’t really trust either them (more specifically I don’t immediately believe what either say without other reasons to believe it), since all I’ve seen of them is what they’ve allowed people to see of them. However, just because I don’t immediately take what they say as fact doesn’t mean I dismiss what they say; rather instead it means I want to look into and figure out whether it is true
why hasn’t anyone else said anything,
This question has been asked a million times. It has been shown time and time again that whether more people come forward has no correlation to how common something is. This is mostly because it’s really hard to do so while being bullied (which is really just abuse).
Even an outside investigator might have issues getting the real story, and is biased due to being on the same payroll as all the other employees. I have had personal experience with this: an outside investigator called in to resolve a conflict with a person whose bullying had previously caused multiple people to quit. It was resolved “amicably” (which is to say not at all). An employer only gives a damn so far as their bottom line goes, and that goes for Linus too. This investigator is going to come in and tip-toe around LMG’s and Linus’s involvement in this, mark my words.
Again, to summarize, Linus saying the things didn’t happen is exactly why people don’t come forward: my word vs the boss.
She did leave a 1 star review in glassdoor when she quit.
I know she did, but what I was saying was why didn’t anyone else
I only see two other reviews on their Glassdoor which are both positive, but that isn’t a lot so it’s hard to draw a definitive conclusion
They may have but the company has the opportunity to get those removed
Yes, see the comment I made to circuscritic@lemmy.ca in the same thread
I mean another piece of evidence is that she had really choose a hard path to walk IF there was nothing going on. She could have just left and kept this bridge unburned if their was nothing to this.
In this situation, one thing that is essentially certain: something happened which led to Madison leaving the company. The reason why is what is being looked into right now (aka are Madison’s claims true)
Jesus, that is beyond awful. I’m really sorry she had to go through so much bullshit and I’m really glad she’s speaking up.
It seems they may be deleting comments urging them to address Madison’s experience on their apology video too.
Do you have proof of that. Cause if true this is really bad.
deleted by creator
Yikes.
Never knew she quitted LTT. Back then I was so happy for her for getting her “dream job”, she seem so happy.
She is charming and I love every second of her on screen. She was having a huge approval from fans for every videos she was on, even though there’s not much of them, only a handful afaik.
I was wondering why she wasn’t appear in more videos but then I just thought since her main role was social media, she needs to focus on that.
Now I feel really bad for her after reading the whole thing.
For now, I’ll give LTT the benefit of the doubt and waiting for their response.
I just typed a whole response and it just got deleted ugh. I’m going to just summarize what I’m saying:
I think this is terrible if it happened, but if it did then why hasn’t anyone else had the same thing happen to them/talk out about it/post something anonymously? Not saying it didn’t, just wondering how we got to this situation and what the actual facts are. I’ll be waiting for facts from a third party to make my final judgement though (think I got it all)
Also here is a response from Linus via the Verge:
I was in a state of shock reading through these allegations, plain and simple. They aren’t consistent with my recollections. They aren’t consistent with our internal processes. They aren’t consistent with our company values. We pride ourselves on maintaining a safe and inclusive environment. In addition to our existing report systems (both anonymous and otherwise) we’ve proactively reached out internally today to encourage members of our team to report any workplace bullying or harassment they might be experiencing so we can take quick and decisive action. Our HR team will be conducting a more thorough assessment of the allegations, and when we are ready, we will release a more complete statement. For now I would ask that we allow our team the time they need be as thorough as possible.
Also forgot to add, the new CEO Terran Tong is also hiring an outside investigator to look into it. I would like for those results to be made public
Tong committed to make the results public. Let us hope he does exactly that.
I’m sorry, what benefit of the doubt? What could they possibly say to make anything look differently?
It’s only fair, right? Always hear all sides of the story before judgement.
Remember recently, a video on social media of a white “karen” seem to try stealing a bike from a black man and try to “play victim” by crying? Turned out she’s a nurse that rented that bike first and was harassed by the man to the point she’s crying and yelling for help?
What side?
A company that will try to save face because they have a lot to lose?
What in the world do you imagine they can say? That they will corraborate her story?
If you aren’t willing to give them the benefit of the doubt you are also part of the problem jumping to conclusions before hearing all the arguments
Please answer the question: what could they say to make you feel any differently?
I honestly have no idea. Right now I don’t believe I’ll ever watch LTT videos the same way just because I know behind cameras the whole thing might be a shitshow. But probably the result of this whole investigation might change my mind
You do understand that it’s incredibly hard to prove workplace harassment beyond reasonable doubt? Which is why victims almost never go public? Since nobody believes them and want to hEaR bOtH sIdEs?
This isn’t two ex lovers arguing, this is workplace harassment ffs.
I do realize that. But by the way you wrote this comment you completely despise the idea of
to hEaR bOtH sIdEs
So we should just take one side’s word and run with it? Sounds awfully dangerous tbh
Yes, I completely despise it.
It makes sense to hear both sides when the sides are equal - like Depp vs Heard. But when you get an entire novel written about workplace harrassment and abuse, I don’t care what the PR dept will cough up. Specially after hearing the response to GN video.
Give me other ex-employees, give me third party investigations, but I absolutely do not give a damn about the company response.
