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Hehe, there’s someone fearing about losing their dopamine source. Typical addict behavior.
What a little drama queen.
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I still hate it for that, but I also hate that the US government only cares if our privacy is violated by foreign actors and not a bunch of Silicon Valley dweebs.
Yeah I think no one stops to ask who those silicon valley jerks sell our data to. The answer is anyone. Including big brother who otherwise cannot legally collect it - but it’s legal now because a company did it and we bought it!
Exactly. It’s like it’s only bad if China gets all our data and influences us without Zuck and Musk getting their cut. But as long as they have to buy data and ads from them it’s fine.
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Except that China can just buy it from American companies, mostly because our government won’t do anything to protect our privacy.
Honestly, while it’s obvious why Tiktok is getting singled out, I hope it can be used as a precident for cracking down on other data collecting companies.
It won’t, though, particularly because it’s specifically not required for TikTok to allow users to download their data if they’re divested to an American company before the deadline. Had anyone really cared, this would be a case for data privacy laws. But that’s not what it’s really about.
I know the details of the ban, but it will still bring the conversation to the general public more then not doing anyway at all.
I don’t feel confident about that. The bill has two elements of wide appeal: 1) General distrust of China and 2) General dislike of TikTok. At least from what I’ve seen, very little attention has been paid to the privacy/data collection part of the bill outside of tech-saavy circles. I feel like GDPR would’ve been the much larger push for data privacy, but it has lost its novelty and nothing has changed on this side of the pond. Hell, even Cambridge Analytica hardly sparked any lasting changes.
1.** I ** don’t trust China.
- I don’t trust Tiktok or like ultra short form media.
So cool, cool.
I really don’t have a horse in this race. Politics is a spectators sport and I’m just coasting until climate change makes this all moot.
My point wasn’t really that you shouldn’t care about those things, just that I don’t think this bill will make any difference when it comes to increasing data privacy protections. In the “best case” (by government standards), TikTok will still be around. It’ll just be operated by a US company, and those have not exactly been known to be responsible with user data.
The biggest concern even for people who hate TikTok is the broad wording of the bill that possibly restricts using a VPN to access said banned sites. It’s a very dangerous precedent to set and is a much bigger part of the opposition than any particular love of TikTok.
I still hate TikTok and am glad for the ban if it makes you feel better. Basically, what the other person said. It’s spyware trash that uses the way it controls opinions to control opinions on this topic too
coughs
Biggest online ad company is an American. Their job is to create and manipulate general public opinion for companies
Ok you win this round. Let’s agree to compromise - can we break up, ban, or regulate all of them?
Absolutely, now how do we go about that?
Because election interference and opinion manipulation is done by state actors
Astroturfing
Jesus Christ not everything is fake, it’s one of thy most popular apps in the world of course there are people like it.
You really need to try and get back in touch with reality
Simply different people expressing their opinion when they’re the ones concerned with the change happening at the moment.
…ooooooor TikTok propaganda through social media works… Never on me though!
I grew up in a time where you couldn’t loiter, I had no money to spend, and social media didn’t exist. I still managed to have a lot of fun. Why are people acting like TikTok is some kind of life necessity that they’ll die without?
And I’m certain that if TikTok is banned, an American-based competitor will pop right up.
Why are people acting like TikTok is some kind of life necessity that they’ll die without?
Some of them are paid to act that way, the others are just following the trend. It’s how marketing works now, especially if you have zero ethics.
As much as I don’t like TikTok, I don’t like the idea of the government censoring arbitrary apps under vague notions of “national security”.
It would be one thing if they were passing legislation about surveillance in apps, but it’s clearly not about that or 99% of American apps would be under the chopping block (they’re selling data to arbitrary buyers, so the data can be obtained by “foreign adversaries” anyway). Instead, they’re just handing the executive power to strongarm any app into American control, or lose the huge American market.
I feel like proponents of this are getting too distracted by their hatred of TikTok, and this nonsense about third spaces isn’t helping. TikTok is just the beginning, and a convenient one because it’s such a hot topic right now.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/03/congress-should-give-unconstitutional-tiktok-bans
It’s because it actually is a security risk with the Chinese government having the ability to do who knows what with a frightening amount of data. There is also the option of selling the company to one that isn’t related to the Communist Party government, but no one seems to be talking about that option.
The only slippery slope is more apps owned by a foreign government that is not exactly our friend.
If the app was owned by North Korea, would you be cool with it too?They aren’t banning Instagram and Facebook.
If they were regulating Instagram and Facebook, I’d actually be happier about it. It’s not like the US is some bastion of digital privacy, and TikTok is bad because the data use is unregulated. Our own wholesome homegrown data brokers spy on us just as much, and they too do who knows what with the data.
American data brokers are no better, and are happy to sell data to foreign powers. Biden had to make an executive order about it recently. Blatant privacy invasion has become a standard practice in the tech industry, and there are a million different companies trading your information around. That’s the real issue at play here, and TikTok is just one of many fish in the sea. My data might even be more valuable to American companies than Chinese ones, because the American ones stand to exploit me for more profit. Or they’ll sell it to government (s), which… Yeah.
And of course TikTok could be sold. That’s exactly what I was talking about with strongarming—sell your platform to a corporation in our jurisdiction, or else we cut you off from a huge part of your userbase. It’s not really an option, it’s an ultimatum. It’d be one thing if we regulated the use of that data, but we don’t really—we don’t have meaningful data privacy laws here, at least not that apply in this circumstance. We’re being spied on just as badly. Forcing them to move here would just mean American agencies and companies would have more control over the platform, and more access to the data it generates, neither of which they’ve built much trust in their ability to do ethically.
Teens are allowed to hang out literally anywhere the general public is allowed to be except for bars and strip clubs.
“What do you want to do today? Oh, I know, let’s just stand around in front of the 7-11.”
Station a group of teens outside any storefront and count how many minutes it takes for someone to come over and hassle them. In most cities you won’t even need both hands.
People don’t generally hang out outside storefronts. There’s parks, malls, community spaces, places designed for people to spend time at.
Are malls not storefronts in your book? What’s in a mall if thats the case? Can you name a community space example, because I live in a major city and free ones don’t exist as far as I’ve seen.
Tbc I understand the sentiment here, but it’s not a very well thought out take. Plenty of advertising revenue is being generated by teens’ presence on tiktok. They are being exploited monetarily by an extremely hostile and repressive foreign power.
I get that there are nuances to this but it’s not “oh look the teens’ one free place to just be is being taken away!” It’s not free in any way.
Like yeah, we should be building community infrastructure to allow for teens and humans in general to have meaningful engagement with each other. In no way is any social media platform a solution for that deficit and it’s dumb to pretend it is.
IMO it’s pretty sad for anyone to think that using a social media app is equivalent to hanging out with friends. You’re filtering your entire reality through a corporate controlled micro-computer basically.
It’s also a myth that teens don’t have anywhere to hang out. They could just go out and do it if they wanted to, people most likely won’t give a fuck if they see some kids hanging around somewhere. There are parks, libraries, malls, streets, alleys, underpasses, etc. (Adjusts the onion on my belt) … Back in my day we just went out and walked or biked or skated somewhere and did random bullshit wherever.
It’s not like Tik Tok is doing things out of the kindness of their hearts, kids. They’re making money off of you. I bet if there was a meatspace location that tracked all your conversations and pushed ads to you they’d let you hang out there for free, too.
mmmmm…meat space.
One of the things the USA desperately needs is benches.
We eliminated all our benches in an attempt to get homeless people to disappear, but lo an behold they still exist.
It’s time to bring back public benches.
The confusing part of this is that they think this is a teen issue, like they see adults loitering everywhere. There’s logic behind why you don’t see them doing it because they have their own homes to hang out at but if four adults were hanging out by the door of a shop they wouldn’t get special treatment.
In most places adults gather outside of their homes you also need to pay for outside of parks
This idea is called a “Third Place”. Your first place is home, the second place is work, and the third place is another place that isn’t the first 2. There used to be more of these like malls, plazas, parks, and others. In the last few decades, these places have gone away, had funding cut, or otherwise died. And like OP is saying, there are places that have been created to fill this gap, but they have been monetized :(
I realized that I treated Reddit as a third place. It was somewhere I felt like a community existed that I could talk to people and just hang out. It wouldn’t surprise me if people felt the same about Tik Tok or Facebook. So when one of those places is threatening to leave, it makes sense they feel there will be a void created.
Not sure what a good solution would be as this is a complicated issue.
I don’t think that’s what a meme is.
“School to prison pipeline”? Is this person smoking meth?
Or are they just some stupid teenager that thinks “omg school is just like prison, I hate it here”? Which considering how hard they’re going to bat for tiktok is highly likely.
Most nonviolent prisoners of any country to ever exist. Constitution says you can use prisoners as slaves.
🤔
It’s about the low quality of education and poor job prospects. Poverty = crime
The school-to-prison pipeline is a real thing. The ACLU website has information on it
Okay, fair enough, but to insinuate this is a problem for all teens and not just certain minorities and low income students is a but dishonest. Also banning tiktok has nothing to do with this.
Yeah, like I said in another comment in this thread: Tik Tok is not a “third space” for teenagers. They’re making money off of them, too, just indirectly.
And it’s not just minorities. My friends and I were white as snow and still got the cops called on us just for hanging out at a pavilion in a park.
Are kids disallowed from hanging out in parks, school clubs, or others’ homes now? What’s changed?
Tiktok spun up the Chinese disinformation bots
Glad to see someone pointing this out.
There are so many beautiful parks that are within walking distance or a short bike/bus ride.
How about libraries or all of the game shops that host free events for everyone to join?
Get your head out of your phone and see the life around you!
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My man, you are completely Reddit brained. What are you even saying?
I think it’s very regional. Libraries and parks are going to get the first cuts when local government tightens its belts, they’re often save havens for the unhoused or those otherwise let down by society, and together that means in many areas they’re seen as maybe not unsafe, but not places overprotective parents want their kids going.
Parks are miserable, school clubs are worse, and it seemed like when I was a kid everyone was too embarrassed to have someone at their house.
Yet somehow the garbage dispensary known as tictok is preferable? Fuck off.
Parks are not miserable. It sounds like you’re the miserable one.
Sounds to me like you were born old. I didn’t say shit about tiktok. I don’t use it. You’re here to whine about others looking something you don’t like.
Why are parks miserable?
Ever been a teenager at a park? All that’s there is grass and maybe some picnic tables. What’re you gonna do? Smoke weed and sit? Throw a ball? The shit is boring and comes with weather.
And somehow there’s more stuff to do standing outside a storefront?
I used to go into Walmart to play Rock Band because we couldn’t afford to buy it.
Back in the day parks were well maintained by people who cared because they were a primary place many folks went to hang out.
Nowadays Xbox and the internet exist. So parks are much more poorly funded, poorly cleaned, and can be dangerous due to lack of oversight or supervision.
It depends a lot on where you are and where you go though. I went to a very nice park just last year that was clearly well maintained, and I’ve gone to some severely sketchy looking parks for the better part of a decade before that. As with all things, nothing is a monolith. But some parks are truly miserable now.
Can you elaborate on the effect of Xboxes on the parks budget? You kinda postulate that there is a connection without ever substantiating that.
People have things they can do inside for fun now, ergo less people (especially less kids and teens) are visiting parks. Nobody visiting the park means nobody has a vested interest in working or paying to upkeep it, and nobody is complaining about its lack of upkeep.
People couldn’t have fun inside before xboxes? Come on now.
You know as well as I do that people are sitting at home on the couch far more in the modern day than ever before in human history.
Nothing, it’s a ridiculous argument as a rationalization for arguing against the tiktok ban. I’ve seen a number of posts today trying to paint it as some attach on democracy or youth culture. The fact is that tiktok captures a giant amount of data and is directly accessible by a hostile foreign government. The ban makes sense.
The ban makes sense because companies in the US tried and failed horribly to gain traction in their youths. And it was critical of western governments being complicit in war crimes in Palestine.
Tell me, before tiktok, how many war crimes US commited were conveniently swept under the rug without consequences?
Can’t have public be aware of that, can we now?
But US wants to shape the narratives for the rest of the world with facebook, instagram and twitter and others. Failing to do that in their own country, they want to ban it as a last ditch resort. Can’t have narratives that don’t align with their propaganda and be critical of their military industrial complexes.
But you do you. I have no horse in the race but I love the outrage when people are on the receiving end of “foreign influence in social media”. Not like social media companies in the US were surveilling rest of the world for the last decade.
And it’s not like US hasn’t done this to Japan when it was going to become a better economy before.
Cope.
Wow, what a bunch of crap. Are you really, really holding up tiktok as a bastion of truth? Are you not aware of the many was crimes that US soldiers have been involved with that have sparked global outage, way before tiktok existed, because there really is a free press?
The US doesn’t have soldiers in Gaza, it’s not commiting war crimes there. You can make a good case that the arms were providing to an ally are being used to commit a genocide, which is plenty bad enough, but don’t weaken the term “war crime” by using it inappropriately. And it’s not like people are only finding out about it through tiktok. Go read NPR and you’ll see quite a lot about it. Read AP. Read Reuters.
But sure, go trust a site whose algorithms are controlled by the Chinese government and think that you aren’t being manipulated. You do you.
Exactly… if you want news - go to the sources of news. If you want funny dances and horribly acted skits - go to social media
parks
A bunch of teenagers hanging out in a park will probably have the cops called on them
school clubs
The budgets for clubs have been cut. Also, there’s no school in the summer
others’ homes
If you don’t drive there’s no way to get there.
I dont really understand this. Does tiktok have a group call feature now? Or are they equating short form videos of strangers to “hanging out”?
I wonder how much of the internet outrage about the bill is just astroturfing by tiktok.
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Here… On Lemmy?
Fuck Tik Tok, ban all social media for all I care, the internet was much better with old forums and IRC.
ban all social media for all I care
Exactly. My problem with the bill isn’t banning Tiktok. It’s that it doesn’t go nearly far enough. Make all social media companies turn off algorithms in their feed, or make them make those algorithms open source so we can see how they’re manipulating us.
As far as I understand it’s the media’s portrayal of the bill that’s wrong, it’s not aimed at TT directly but puts rules in place that TT can’t respect as long as it’s owned by a Chinese company.
Correct me if I’m wrong, that’s what they were saying in Canadian media.
The bill very specifically names TikTok and its owner, Bytedance, in its text.
Sure, but it’s broader than that, any social media platform with ties to enemy countries could be banned.
I wonder how much of the internet support for the bill is just astroturfing by facebook/twitter/insta.
Bingo. That and people upset about losing money but honestly if it’s gone for everyone the market will fill the void on Instagram. See: Reddit vs Lemmy
I don’t believe people are astroturfing on Lemmy yet
Probably not, but this meme didn’t originate here. It was put here by someone who either legitimately agreed with it or just wanted content to post, but that doesn’t mean the original was legitimate.
Yeah I was on board until the tik tok part
Tiktok has DMs and livestreams, which can kind of shake out to be about the same.
TikTok live does have a multistream actually
Yeah I would consider Discord as more of space people can “hang out”.
I use discord but I didn’t realize how much others used it till I got new roommates. They basically have it perpetually open on the side, a perpetual portal to their friend network
It’s one of the easiest ways of calling and texting friends without exposing your phone number.
I rarely open discord on my PC, but I have it as an app on my phone which is always connected.
Yeah I open discord every morning before I open slack for work. I manage two 2k+ communities and am an active member of dozens of other niche communities… Two of which involves members meeting up regularly IRL. It’s the best tool for direct social engagement on the Internet.
It’s less about hanging out and more about occupying the time I guess. Teens hang out in a third space being social because it burns free time and releases dopamine. When you can achieve that by sitting in your room, getting dopamine by watching tiktok and sending them to your friends wordlessly, the need for the third space drops
I kind of get what the Twitter post was trying to get at its just written poorly. Anything that’s not them participating in the economy is considered bad.
The death of the third place predates tiktok.
