On one hand, I do think torture is wrong
But on the other hand, this just feels like more confirmation of Ukraine/US involvement that they’re so outraged about it.
Was something like that “publicly broadcast”? What
The fact that you can find the videos at all is being “publicy broadcast” I guess
Bruh imagine caring about treating terrorists who killed more than hundred of innocent people, westoids are something else
Daily reminder of Bleiburg and that those people always end and will end up like this.
That 9-12 vibe, so revolutionary
Obviously, I don’t condone torture either.
But to all the libs getting “outraged” by this: I remember when you were vociferously defending waterboarding and other “expedited interrogation methods.” So shut up, fuck off, and go Abu Ghraib yourself.
As always, there are no actions that the western left can take to oppose what’s wrong with the Russian state that wouldn’t help advance the cause of imperialists.
This is actually true. The problems Russia has today are for the Russian people to solve. Any criticism we westerners make is bound to swell the tide of anti-Russian propaganda. Plus, after the 90s we have absolutely no moral high ground.
I’ve seen libs literally defend their hypocrisy by saying ‘Yea, but that wasn’t on US soil’ as if it’s some kind of huge gotchya.
Reminder: the Israeli state is doing all this and worse behind closed doors to innocent people. Big CW for descriptions of torture and SA behind this link
Torture is an inexcusable evil, but the the Great Satan and its vassals still hold the overwhelming monopoly on it. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, etc.
Fuck Russia, but if you only care now they’re doing it, rethink your priorities.
Fuck torture, fuck Russia, we do not have to like torture to point out the blatant hypocrisy of all of the libs who supported the War on Terror and are only handwringing about it now, just like we don’t have to like the government currently occupying the USSR’s corpse to be in favor of them opposing the United States.
I am guessing crickets about the treatment of women and children in and around al-shifa hospital by the IOF?
The first thing that happened after 9/11 was that a bunch of American men beat a Sihk to death over a thousand miles away in the man’s own gas station because he had a turban. Hate crimes against Sikhs and Muslims skyrocketed and didn’t die down to pre-9/11 levels till 2009.
All projection.
After the Oct 7 raids by Hammas into Israeli occupied territories, a landlord in the USA went into the home of some renters who were Palestinian and started shooting, wounding a mother and killing her child.
I remember reading some articles talking to the family and relatives and it stuck out to me that the general opinion was that the landlord and the family he shot up were friendly towards each other.
He had helped them built a treehouse a couple years earlier, IIRC. I suspect his brain got rotted out by conservative news and conspiracy and Al Aqsa Flood broke it in half.
Lead poisoning, PFAS exposure, asbestos exposure, and other horrific chemicals have set humanity back decades if not over a century at this point, and have fully rotted the minds of the older generations. A lot of the bizarre manifestations of dementia, paranoia, mental illness, aggression, and strange behavior are hallmark signs of lead exposure and the subsequent neural decay.
That and the Western media machine. That has also turned many people into rabid violent degenerates.
If rumours that the perpetrators are tajik turn out true, I expect a spike in hate crimes as well
They already confessed in court, all four are Tajik. And yeah, not great for central Asian nations.
Another reason torture is bad, period: a confession is a lot less believable when you cut a guy’s ear off beforehand
I don’t know if you watch Russian news, but I’ll tune into PT or Первый канал sometimes and there is a bizarre and disgusting trend of being horrifically racist to black people and Muslims. They are legitimately described and referred to as subhuman and in extremely derogatory ways. It worsened EXTREMELY after George Floyd.
If that is anything to go off of, I expect hate crimes to increase and the media to support it or brush it under the rug.
Jesus Christ Russia has fallen since the Union days.
I don’t know if you watch Russian news, but I’ll tune into PT or Первый канал
Nope. Don’t really watch TV at all, and specifically avoid these (and other similar) channels in their many forms. They manage to make any topic into an ear-bleeding experience.
there is a bizarre and disgusting trend of being horrifically racist to black people and Muslim
Trust me, I know. Don’t go to popular places like pikabu, and especially to the comment sections. Heck, comments are filled with racist reactionary crap even at communist media (such as blogs of Constantin Syomin). There’s usually plenty of anti-semitism too, for “good” measure.
Russia has fallen since the Union days.
Yup. The more one learns about the depth of this fall, the more heartbreaking it gets. It is a veritable pit of tartarus. And the worst part is, people don’t seem to understand it. Many think it’s always been like this. Many, many blame USSR outright for the current state of affairs. Some think it’s actually better now and will only get better, either because muh putin, or because “sovoks will dies out and New People (read: businessmen) will take over and lead us to bright liberal capitalist future”.
Shit ain’t fun, comrade.
I do wonder, when the evidence of torture is so obvious, doesn’t Russia need to punish someone to keep the barest appearance of civil law? what has been the official acknowledgement so far? Will they just say “yes, torture took place, but the perpetrator can’t be identified from the videos or eye witnesses, so no indictments”
my bet is they just come up with some handwaved bs excuse “they were resisting arrest and it required force to apprehend them” etc. And because nobody important in Russia is going to care that will be the end of it.
torture bad of course, but some guys getting roughed up after getting caught doing mass murder of civilians is at least understandable
imagine if they made a whole international torture industry pipeline, with hundreds of people getting kidnapped on spurious charges and moved around blacksite torture prisons and being tortured with methods designed to generate false confessions
The US already create the torture institutions with the Indian Residential fake School death camps from 1850s to 1998 that later became the Nazi death camps. The Pax Americana justice system also use coerced confession as absolute prove of guilt under the excuse that a person will never confess to crimes that they did not commit regardless of the circumstances or level coercion. It is suspicious that Pax Americana condemn the very coercion that they readily practiced daily.
The Pax Americana justice system also use coerced confession as absolute prove of guilt under the excuse that a person will never confess to crimes that they did not commit regardless of the circumstances or level coercion.
You’re right about plenty, but not here. If you cut a guy’s ear off and he confesses afterwards you’re actually going to have a hell of a time getting that confession admitted in court. You very likely won’t even get in a confession if a person was not read their Miranda rights.
They were repeatedly shoving guys own severed ear into his mouth, trying to make him eat it. That’s not “roughing up after catching”, that’s proper torture.
Should have thought about that before murdering a hundred people. He’ll live.
This isn’t police roughing up an innocent black person accused of a petty crime. This is a deranged psychopath who just killed and wounded hundreds of people.
The proper response to a state torturing a suspect is not “I’m sure he deserved it”
“I’m sure he deserved it”?
Jesus Christ he just shot dozens of people including children in a terrorist attack. I’m pretty damn sure he deserved it.
This isn’t some random person arrested for shop lifting. This is a mass murderer.
Either put him on trial or put a bullet in his head. Torture achieves nothing, it’s just petty revenge.
There is no excuse for a state torturing anyone, so there is no room for “he deserved it” in this conversation. It should be the easiest thing in the world to look at Russians torturing this guy and say that’s wrong. This is the difference between critical support and unconditional support.
You are also assuming he is guilty based on what, news reports in the immediate aftermath? That we all know are just press releases straight from the cops? You can’t look at stuff like mundane drug arrests in the U.S. and be hypersuspicious of every allegation then uncritically accept the first story the cops put out on a high-profile terrorist attack.
They literally recorded all the slaughter on their phone and their faces are in almost every frame, fuck off terrorist whitewasher
You’re the one going to bat for torture here. Torture that is inexcusable no matter what these guys did.
But I’m sure you’ve done a deep, sober dive into the evidence and are not simply repeating (other) things the cops told you. I’m sure we have the full story about what exactly happened and who exactly was involved 48 hours after the fact.
What does it fucking matter if he’s guilty, it’s not the police’s job or the state’s job to enact revenge.
It’s not, but too many of the responses in this thread verge dangerously close to “all states bad,” “all cops are bastards,” “be a fucking decent human being,” and other nuance-less liberal platitudes. If I wanted that sort of thing I could go over to r/tankiejerk or some other anarchist-infested hellhole.
nuance-less liberal platitudes
Torture isn’t a very nuanced subject. There just aren’t any excuses for it, especially not here, where it’s purely retributive and the act in question is clearly torture.
“all cops are bastards,”
liberal platitudes
I want to live in the reality where libs are saying ACAB
Anarchists – the exact same thing.
(EDIT: though with an extra dash of annoyingness, caused by 1, their anti-intellectualism, shown in comments like the one preceding; 2, their sheer inability to get anything done except wrecking; and 3, their colossal sense of victimhood over Trotsky’s having, in one of the few based moves of his career, absolutely fucked over Makhno and his band of rapey thugs).
I’m not sure what any of the things you wrote have to do with my comment, maybe you replied to a wrong comment.
No, it was directed at yours.
He should have thought of the consequences before going on a mass killing spree. Did he expect to be treated nicely?
I don’t know what he expected.
ohh yeah, I agree, that’s beyond “roughing up”
Way too many “torture is actually OK” comments in here
what the hell is going on in this thread
- People pointing out lib hypocrisy (re the defense of torture during the Bush II years).
- People saying torture, if it happened, was justified in this particular case (not a principled position, and I don’t endorse it, but I get the sort of base psychological appeal).
- People taking the occasion to be liberal dumbasses: fuck Russia, they’re just like America, two things can be bad at once, etc. etc. You know who you are; cut it out.
- And all shades of outrage over every single one of the aforementioned positions.
So in other words, a good old-fashioned shitshow.
The videos have a very odd not so publicised aspect
Four days since the attack and videos of police, taken by police, are immediately being distributed through social media. Seems… I dunno… suspicious.
Where? “Independent” media lying as always
Why is it odd?
Because why would a Russian security officer have Ukrainian paramilitary insignia??
Because he does not? They presented zero evidence despite “independent media told us” (at least say which one lmao), and there is nothing sus on the said video
“Rusich” is a Russian neonazi group, part of Wagner PMC, they were active in Ukraine on the Russian side pretty much since the beginning of the conflict.
This seems real BTW: https://t.me/dvachannel/134696?single
I’m also furious, as should you be, it’s fucking disgusting.
not forget that a chilean journalist was tortured and died on an ukranian prison.
Gonzalo Lira was also American, not like they care though, that granted him no special favors, they’ll say American traitors deserve it etc. Westerners are only “special” if they also on the “correct” side.
Good note to point out to the non-die hards tho
if only he had denounced evil ruzzies instead of fascists.
Gonna be honest, I’m pretty disappointed by some of the comments some comrades are making excusing torture right now.
Condemning reactionaries for only selectively being outraged by torture and then going on to say that torture is alright in this case is pretty jarring.
the meta of posting this thread to shitreactionariessay 😵💫
“God, torture is so cool. I love it. It’s the best. I am rock fucking hard right now thinking about terrorists getting tortured.”
- this thread’s comments
Yeah it’s fucking gross, seeing people with hexbear and .ml usernames posting comments on the level of American patriots post 9/11
time to uphold TC69 thought
Oh no, you’re actually a hypocrite if you say it’s fucked up now because there were American patriots post 9/11 who supported torture.
The vast majority of comments in this thread are about how this is a common opinion in this thread and how that opinion is bad. Did comments get deleted???
It’s so easy to say “I support this country’s actions here, where they are defensible, but not here, where they are obviously bad.” And we’re fucking it up!
What do people think critical support means?
It’s not about the torture, it’s about the response.
My comment isn’t about the post itself. My comment is about the comments section, where many comrades, some of whom whose opinion I held in regard, are making excuses for, or in a few cases outright supporting, torture.
These aren’t even the emotional one off rant/rage comments type of thing either, where it can be excused as simply being angry. People are getting pretty defensive and trying pretty damn hard.
