Register to vote: https://vote.gov
Contact your reps:
Senate: https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm?Class=1
House of Representatives: https://contactrepresentatives.org/
Register to vote: https://vote.gov
Contact your reps:
Senate: https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm?Class=1
House of Representatives: https://contactrepresentatives.org/
What is the incentive to work if all these things are provided? Btw I want these things so I can quit my job and just wander around
You might, but most don’t. Most people love working as long as they are passionate about what they are doing. You might find that you wander for a while, but eventually take that time to develop a skill or lean into researching something that benefits, not only you, but society as a whole.
The issue being “as long as they are passionate about what they are doing”. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of jobs where there’s no where near enough people with passion for the job. You know anyone signing up to drive a garbage truck around all day long? Anyone excited at the prospect of volunteering at the sewage treatment plant? You might have some volunteers to help dementia patients, but not nearly enough and most would quite very soon after realuzing how hellish it can be.
We need more than passion to motivate. That’s not too say it’s impossible to get to a guaranteed basic level of living for people to feel more safe and secure about how bad it could get, but there needs to be some room to motivate beyond intrinsic passion for the work.
No one is suggesting volunteers. What’s being proposed is that a baseline of security is provided. A roof over your head, food, access to education ,and just enough money to survive. With those things guaranteed, now people are freed to pursue careers like those you have suggested. When people no longer have to worry about survival, the vast majority will spend their time on pursuing a better life for themselves. That in turn leads to a stronger and more profitable society.
What you mean to say is “what is the incentive to work in a mind-numbing, soul-crushing, mental and physical health-risking job?”
The answer is there aren’t any and no one should be forced to work those jobs even if it benefits others.
And if a job is both necessary and unpleasant, you get people into it by offering them high pay above their universal basic income.
UBI is not communism. It’s an end to poverty, not an end to wealth.
Isn’t the whole point of UBI that everyone gets it without questions or restrictions. This way you can get some extra bucks even from a low paying job, when you’re not actually relying on that job but it gets you extra
At least that’s how it has been discussed in Finland, and it has support on both sides of the political spectrum
Yes, that’s what I’m saying.
Why is it that work is the only way? Why must we work and have “incentive to work”? Who decided that we must work or be worthless? Why must we be forced to play a game that treats us like shit or be outcast and ostracized?
I don’t expect you to have answers, this is just something I’ve always wondered.
Because all the things in that picture are produced by people working. If there are not people working to make clothes, you don’t get clothes. If there are not people making and maintaining power plants, there is no electricity. And so on.
It’s okay if temporarily non working people, or people that are unable to work, or people that work but are not paid enough gets these things for free (or deeply discounted. But if absolutely everyone gets all of that for free, there won’t be enough people working just to sustain the ones who won’t.
I mean we could go back to being hunter gatherers with no electricity, roads, police, government etc…But in order to have the comforts of life, we need peoples to do stuff and cooperate and coordinate… think about who runs the cables for your Internet or maintains the cell towers, picks up your trash, grows the avocados for your guacamole, manufactures the medicines…etc etc…If nobody has a job, nothing gets done… think about living off the grid and the logistics associated with it, that’s just a small taste
Imagine if we had a universal basic income and people got paid more than that if they had a job?
Oh wait, that’s the whole fucking idea.
You are soo cute, do u have pp
I unironically believe that these things would get done without the need of coercing people to do them by stripping them of the means of survival. Anthropology backs me up on this one.
There’s a qualitative question in what the “free” tier entails. If it’s basic survival, then that might be “affordable” with room to motivate. If the adequate food was “bachelor chow and water”, ok. If the “home” is a basic bed with a lockable door in a walkin closet sized room, ok.
If we say everyone should get all you can eat buffet with quality apartments, then you start eroding the mechanism to motivate people to do work that needs to be done.
Show me some horsey sourcey cuz
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution
Also: The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow. Basically: anything by Graeber.
Did you just use a book written in 1902 as a source
Is the origin of spedies out of date, cause it is older?
Also, the bulk of Graeber’s work is from the 21st century.
You can just say that you don’t want to believe me, you know.
I don’t believe you
Not everyone HAS to work. There are plenty of homeless people now who don’t work. People can choose to work to increase their pay and quality of life. Even if all my needs were met, I’d still like to buy things, travel, etc. The people making the most money in this world right now are definitely not the people who are working the hardest, nor are they cooperating and coordinating for everyone’s best interest.
Humans are naturally creative and driven. We like working, building and accomplishing something.
Yet you must be forced to do the work of your employment.
If you had all your necessities met, not for long you would start to work. But you would work on projects you enjoyed. I doubt all those projects would be less useful for society than the average workplace nowadays.
I think must of the UBI experiments that we’ve done, many of the participants chose to do work in addition to the basic income.
On top of everything else that’s been said, most people would want more than just whatever the UBI was even if that was enough to survive on. Most people do not want to just survive. Sure, you might get enough to live a very basic life without any frills if you didn’t work, but isn’t it better to guarantee those people homes and food rather than just let them die in the street?
For one, the operational word is “experiments”. People on experimental UBI know it’s only temporary.
For another, they are never large scale. So you can have success stories about how people given a UBI reprieve were able to take a moment to get things together, get some training, and maybe be selective and find a good job, but it’s unfortunately not saying how it would scale. Unfortunately those great opportunities are likely sparse, and if entire cities could take that same benefit, you’d likely see a reset to a similar scenario as before UBI. That said it may be a much better simpler situation than means tested welfare, but the ubi amounts in the experiments are often less than welfare, so you’d not replace the system…
Then there’s the debate of how much UBI.
We have value beyond work, but ultimately theres the practical questions of:
All the “free stuff” needs people to work to make it a reality. It may be that we can “afford” to provide basic needs confidently for free in a way that leaves motivation to do those jobs to get better, but ultimately we need work to be done and some way to motivate that work to be done.
With these things you get to work at what you want. For instance, I’ve travelled extensively where the items in the meme are mostly available, and you get cottage or small businesses that are really good at what they do but make too little money to actually be a “real job”.
So you get things like someone making the finest handmade tile, the best bread, an artist gets to make his/her art, you get to run your own private consulting business, etc. You have a shot at doing what you want, not some shitty grind you’re forced to do to hope you get healthcare, kids college money and a retirement. Of course these jobs don’t make a lot of money, but you can certainly look for employment that does offer better compensation.
Point being you have a choice.
And it’s funny, even in places where these services are available the vast majority don’t sit on their asses avoiding work. They understand they want more for themselves and maybe even the community they live in, so they choose more gainful employment.
Also, just because you get those meme things doesn’t mean you get everything else too. These are just basics, not a lifestyle that gets you much more than social housing and the ability to visit cheap destinations on your guaranteed vacation via public transportation. Maybe that’s all some people want, and that’s fine. YMMV.
All of you guys have great ideas, have you ever thought about running for political office?
I don’t see a panel for European vacations, video games, fancy dinners, nice cars, concert tickets, iPhones, trips to SeaWorld, a six pack of beer, or a Netflix subscription. If you want an empty, boring-ass life then it’s yours for free. I would like to see a panel for free birth control as well. I don’t think a system like this can stand for long if every non-working person has 6 kids.