- cross-posted to:
- lgbtq_plus@lemmy.blahaj.zone
- cross-posted to:
- lgbtq_plus@lemmy.blahaj.zone
A judge ordered Planned Parenthood to hand records of transgender care over to Andrew Bailey.
A St. Louis judge has ruled that Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey is entitled to Planned Parenthood’s transgender care records, ordering the nonprofit to turn over some of its most sensitive files to the man who has built his unelected political career on restricting health care access for trans people.
In his Thursday decision, Circuit Judge Michael Stelzer wrote that Bailey can collect documents under Missouri’s consumer protection statute that aren’t protected under federal mandate, namely the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, better known as HIPAA.
“It is clear from the statute that the Defendant has the broad investigative powers when the consumer is in possible need of protection and there is no dispute in this matter,” wrote Stelzer. “Therefore, the Defendant is entitled to some of the requested documents within his [Civil Investigative Demand].”
Bailey, who last year attempted to implement a ban on gender-affirming care for people of all ages, was quick to celebrate the decision, calling it a “big day” for the state.
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Funniest part of reading this all is that I am repulsed by trans folk. Sorry, that’s just that. However I do believe that they should have the right to be. Like, just be - happy, yourself, who cares what others think/feel, they aren’t kidnapping anyone to turn them trans, they are doing stuff to themselves only. Sheesh.
But I do still perceive myself in negative light due to that repulsion. And then I see news what happens in USA and I am like, whaaaa. Cuz even if I did act upon that repulsion, that’s going weird way. Like, there’s no any try at helping. It’s not “Ew, unnatural, we need to fix their psyche” (WHICH IS EVIL) or “Ew, they need reaffirmation about their sex!” (…which is barely better). No, straight up “Trans should go on without any kind of help”. Why? Wtf. xD
Edit: Hell, even worse. Trans should be persecuted for having feelings/perceptions not dependent on their own volition. Yay. Wtf is wrong with people.
I kind of appreciate the “I don’t need to understand or like you to support” attitude, but repulsion is a strong reaction.
Have you ever reflected upon the why?
Especially if you don’t like that reaction in yourself in the first place, as you say, maybe it would be worth working on it?
Hah, I tried, yes. I feel it as unnatural and wrong, not sure why, can’t really track it to my enviro or anything so I just gave up on it. Especially that in the end it does harm to no one. It’s funny though seeing all the dislikes. Also, just in case - person that replied to you earlier wasn’t me.
you can really pick out the redditers they really like pressing those arrows. its just a circle jerk its people who really like to jerk themself off.
I’m sorry I didn’t notice it wasn’t you, I must have been tired. Glad you got I wasn’t trying to judge, I’m neurodivergent and sometimes my communication is a bit off.
Since you’re aware of it and actually try not to let it sway you towards hate, I suppose it’s not that big of a deal, though I’m not trans so I could easily miss something here. I’m sorry about the dislikes too, though I understand why people have no patience in this regard, it gets tiresome to always fight and having to justify existing. Most possibly stopped reading at repulsed.
I would be majorly annoyed in your place, which is part of the reason I asked, but I’m quite obsessive in figuring out my internal working.
Mind if I ask some more? I’m also obsessed with understanding how people in general work, but I don’t mean to bother and I apologize if this comes off as pushy.
If I understand correctly, you feel it unnatural as a concept. Have you ever actually met trans people? Often you can’t even tell, but I suppose I sort of understand it can be confusing when you can. I would like to understand how it gets from confusing to repulsive though. Maybe something about the general climate more than your specific environment? It got quite violent recently, maybe you’re sensitive to it? I get you don’t know yourself, and again if this bothers you I apologize and I’ll stop.
Not a problem at all, written medium and Lemmy likes to shove a buttload of characters in header so it’s actually quite hard to notice who you are responding to. ^^
And meh. I knew what I was getting into when I wrote my comment. Wanted to see if it’s gonna go reddit way or some other way. Sad to see it going reddit way, but people are people I guess.
Well, I can pretty much tell you that I most probably didn’t meet any IRL. My country is…let’s say a little old timey in that regard. I think, alas I may be wrong, that if I meet and befriended some my strong reaction may lessen, though I think it wouldn’t entirely dissapear. And again, I cannot track it to outside variables - wasn’t raised in hateful enviro towards trans, didn’t participate in community that hates trans, and I am not a right winger sooo…yeah. Lack of vectors that would be responsible of repulsion, at least outside ones. Now, inside ones…I observed I do have tendency of sticking to the rules and "should"s a little too much, so it may come from applying that to sex - gender connection. Especially that in my native language there isn’t different word for gender - both sex and gender are the same word. So yeah. I am not confused about them however. There’s nothing confusing there. They were born as sex X, but feel as gender Y, so they are distressed. And hell, most of them can be cured by physically altering sex. Nothing to be confused about. Still, for my emotional part at least, it’s unnatural and repulsive.
I think you can notice that I do actually slightly obsess about knowing myself too lol. How else I am to move forward if not by learning what makes me tick, eh? ^^
I think you can notice that I do actually slightly obsess about knowing myself too lol. How else I am to move forward if not by learning what makes me tick, eh? ^^
Preach, friend.
I think I can start to see a picture here.
Your direct environment may not have been hateful, but from your description the entire cultural setting, from language to customs, implanted some bias toward what is right and acceptable, or natural. It’s a strong influence, and it frames the entire reality unless one goes out of their way to challenge it, as you did. Kudos for that.
I agree that rationally nothing is confusing, but if you grow up with a substructure that implies things should be a specific way, your emotions will follow that framework.
I see that in my country as well, and in myself still sometimes, as much as I try to counter it.
I agree that meeting and getting to know a trans person would probably help in that, especially since consciously you already know how things work. It may be difficult for the trans person though, even if you don’t intend it to be. I’m sure you already know.
Thank you for your answer, and good luck in your slight obsession :)
Have you ever reflected upon the why? but you seem above that kind of thing. there are a lot of things in nature you are naturally repulsed by just because its strong does not mean its not a natural even uncontrollable reaction. but i guess framing the question fits you well. the whole repulsion is a strong reaction so it must just be you very bad person is just stupid.
I’ve never said you were a bad person for it.
You seem busy defending yourself from yourself, I’ll leave you to it.
I’m not sure why I’m bothering, since you attacked me out of nowhere and presumed a lot. I’m curious, I suppose.
Have I reflected upon the why of what? I reflected upon a lot, both about myself and others. I’m never repulsed by people, I sometimes get weirded out but I’m aware it’s on me and try to adjust. I’m repulsed by behaviours, when they’re actively hateful or violent, but I try my best to stay kind. I’m human, so sometimes I fail at that. I’m severely annoyed by anything illogical, as many neurodivergent people are, and again I’m aware it’s on me and try to manage. I’m not above anything human, no one is.
I’m aware emotional reactions are not entirely controllable, and that’s fine as long as you’re aware and don’t let them control you, which the person I actually was talking to seems to be doing fine.
Is that what you wanted to know? What about what I said triggered you so much you actually invented what I meant? Repulsion is indeed a strong reaction, it just is, there’s no inherent judgement about who feels it in recognising that.
attacked you its a reply on the internet. and you seem to have no problem with it yourself i don’t really care its just text but it does make things more interesting. yes its what i wanted to know its very good. the whole repulsion is a strong reaction thing but hey i got a reply.
Damn this is scary stuff.
Does he have a license to practice medicine?
What isn’t covered by HIPPA?
I think that they are trying to use “Medicaid fraud” as a backdoor to access medical records. I mean, the AG is specifically saying otherwise but that’s the loophole they will use to get these records.
Anything these fascists don’t like while they’re running their theocracy.
Reason I moved my family out of that y’all queda nightmare.
How did you escape?
I’ve fantasized, but I have no idea how, where or what country will even take poor queer people
I read that as meaning Missouri specifically.
You can escape the south without leaving the country.
HIPAA is federal.
Best I can think of is applying to join a literal commune within the same country.
Not them but I went to school in blue state and when I graduated I sold everything that I couldn’t fit in a backpack. Got a job in a city, took the bus there, found an apartment on craigslist on the bus ride.
It was rough for a few months.
HIPAA protections are federal. Planned Parenthood won’t just turn over records that are protected by HIPAA.
It’s funny that you think fascist give a shit about federal law, not like that don’t have a history of ignoring federal statutes when they disagree with something.
*HIPAA
Bailey, who last year attempted to implement a ban on gender-affirming care for people of all ages
I’m not a fan of giving it to children, but adults should be able to do what they want with their bodies as long as they are not hurting anyone else.
Why not?
Children are too easily manipulated, and I don’t trust people to avoid coercing children that it’s better to be trans.
This is such a stupid line of thinking. Trans people aren’t Nazi’s, they don’t indoctrinate the youth.
Do you think children are more susceptible than adults? At what age are they less?
Do you think children are more susceptible than adults?
Absolutely.
At what age are they less?
It depends on the individual, but the general trend is that people become less susceptible to coercion as they become older and gain more life experience.
By that logic, are there any other things you’d be against allowing children to do or experience?
Yes.
Could you give a couple of examples?
Hi, you can believe what you want to believe, but I wish I pursued care when I was younger (began questioning at the onset of puberty) rather than transitioning at 25.
The most commonly used model is puberty blockers with parental consent up until 16 and then HRT only with parental consent at 16.
Forcing a child to undergo a puberty that they do not want, is cruel!
Children do not choose to transition because they think it’s cool to do so. They still get bullied for it. At least set them up to have a more stable adulthood.
There is no such thing as a good conservative alive today. Conservatives bring only oppression and death. They are the enemy of humanity.
Always has been …
Eh. I’m glad we have conservatives because I see how crazy liberals can be when they get there way with no pushback.
I think if liberals tried less to control people’s thoughts, they would be more palatable to independents.
Is the mind-control “liberal” in the room with us right now?
Probably.
Just check the modlogs :P
They are (and have always been) regressives but yeah.
isn’t this like, explicitly anti HIPPA?
Shouldn’t this be like, INCREDIBLY illegal?
The ruling specifically said items that aren’t protected under federal mandate. When I deal with HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) information, just about everything you can imagine in the record is protected if it can be paired with another piece of info and narrow down a person’s identity. Scroll down to the ‘Protected Health Information’
Hopefully that means they can deny just about every document… but I have no hope when it comes to courts and prosecutors in the states.
yeah no this definitely seems illegal then. There’s no way asking for medical documents of trans people isn’t going to reveal personal information about them, unless you’re looking for fucking statistics?
Given those are the only documents this ruling entitles the AG to, it sounds like statistics are all he’s gonna get.
Go sit in in a personal injury trial and see how worthless HIPPA actually is.
hipaa is one of the things of all time, that’s definitely for sure.
But there are also things it’s supposed to be doing, so.
Not like the Christians care but it also violates the fourth
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Silly commie. The 4th amendment is like the 3rd, 7th, and 8th. They’re all outdated silly things that are completely irrelevant to our modern world unlike the 2nd and certain interpretations of the 1st
ah yes, a classic, the fourth, i mean the forced amendment.
HIPAA
No, they’re referring to the Health Insurance Portability and Paccountability Act.
I thought they were talking about that hungra, hungra animal from Africa.
the p in hippa stands for accountability
Don’t trust any man in a suit especially if he looks like he wears one every day.
Man fuck Republicans
You can woman fuck them too if you feel up to it.
I think we should all just stop fucking them.
Isn’t that what articles like this:
Are about?
Redcaps be like: “why do women care about women’s healthcare and the unprecedented corruption?”
Pretty much
What the hell? Seriously, living your life is too much to ask?
Me thinks someone has a secret affection for a certain group of people.
Yeah, I stopped with that line of thought ages ago. Regardless of whether it’s true for any percentage of cases, they’re still monsters causing massive amounts of damage and trauma to people just trying to exist. They’ve also shown us time and time again that hypocrisy is no barrier for them.
There’s only one party that cares about hypocrisy and it ain’t the fucking republicans.
Agreed.
I think it’s only for minors, which is even weirder.
Conservatives love kids genitals these days
I’m from St. Louis so I keep up with local politics and shit. While you might find I disagree with most people on a lot of things, especially in the trans area of discussion, at no point do I think it’s a good idea to put a politician in the same room as a doctor and a patient. That is all I am willing to say about that.
I think he should have to show his internet history.
"My team will get to the bottom of how this clandestine network of clinics has subjected children to puberty blockers and irreversible surgery, often without parental consent,” he wrote in a statement.
Ffs, he makes it sound like toddlers are getting snatched off the streets to get “trans’ed”.
Give me one fucking case anywhere in this state where a minor was given surgery without parental consent. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
Honestly they have sown the myths of trans healthcare so hard that people legit believe 5 year olds are receiving puberty blockers. The barest of sense is easier to hijack than people can believe. It’s why we can’t depend on a majority vote for stuff like this. The airbrains are being given butterflies to chase and then telling us we’re crazy. They probably have some fictional bogeyman-esque case someone wrote an article about or a interviewee they managed to play out of context nonsense from to cite you.
people legit believe 5 year olds are receiving puberty blockers.
The funniest part is, that’s exactly who puberty blockers were initially intended for. Like the whole original point of puberty blockers is to block puberty in young children who are prematurely entering puberty. They’ve been in use for decades too, but no one complained until they started to be used in gender affirming care 🙄
Which was pretty much from the beginning too.
The sad thing is that puberty blockers are a discussion worth having. They aren’t perfect. It’s tech absolutely worth refining for trans usage to combat it’s drawbacks but we can’t talk about having awesome perfect trans care with amazing outcomes when the conversation we’re having is whether we’re allowed to have any trans care at all.
They’ve managed to convince people that 5 year olds are out here getting gender reassignment surgery, like it’s not already incredibly hard for willing adults to get it
Also like I dunno about all trans people everywhere but for myself and all the trans folk I know being trans when I was a kid really wasn’t focused on my body. Like all it takes to pass pre-puberty is a haircut and clothes and you’re perfectly happy. There’s just not a lot of physical differences between the sexes up to a point. It’s not until you start developing secondary sex characteristics that you care much about your body at all… Puberty though… It’s like a body horror. Once you go from effortlessly passing to having to work at it it’s like actually losing something you didn’t realize you valued so much knowing you will never experience it again.
How else do you think transgender women have gotten so much hotter in the past decade or so?
(This is a joke btw and I hate that I have to say this)
Well, I definitely have
Why should it matter if the parents give consent if the minor cant consent? A parents could consent to their child getting a face tattoo, but it doesnt mean a kid can consent to that.
I don’t understand your question. Children can’t consent, so when they would need to consent to something, their guardians are asked to consent for them. That’s how e.g. all medical surgeries are performed on children.
So then what if the child wants a face tattoo, should the parent be able to consent for them?
What do you mean, “should”?
Legal guardians do handle consent for their wards, which is why circumcisions are legal - there’s no meaningful legal distinction here between a face tattoo and a circumcision.
That’s how things are. If you’re asking me how things ought to be, that’s an absurd question to ask someone on the internet.
Of course there is a legal distinction and practical difference between a face tatoo and circumcision, that is just silly. So you are perfectly fine with a minor permanently changing themselves just as long as their parents dont disagree?
Why do you care /what does it matter what I’m perfectly fine with? I’ve been describing the way the country’s legal system works to you. I’m not a lawmaker, I can’t change any of these rules.
No, that is not how the legal system works…
I care because children dont have the ability to consent, and if they are being abused then they have the right to be protected.
It must be a new strain of that chemical they put in the water that turns the friggin frogs gay
IT’S NOT. HUMAN. INTELLIGENCE!!!
Huh?
Sorry I thought we were doing Alex Jones impressions.
Oh lol
But if they’re forced to abide by logic and reasoning how are they supposed to oppress women and minorities?
When people were arguing for this ban in Indiana, people were saying the same stupid shit.
And it turned out that there was no hospital or clinic that performed such surgery on minors in the first place.
They didn’t care, they just kept saying it.
But it’s not exactly clear yet which documents Bailey will be able to access or that sensitive medical records are completely off the table, as legal experts warn that HIPAA operates with a fairly narrow scope.
Does anyone here with any experience in this field know what sort of information he could access that would be damaging to patients?
Technically this is a grey area and they are blatantly misusing the exception for court order/warrant rule. HIPAA just states that records must be turned over but doesn’t get into details concerning how much or how little should be provided. I really can’t believe the judge allowed this but I suspect (hopeful anyway)that this will get kicked up to a federal court since federal law supercedes state laws.
There needs to be a stay of enforcement if it’s going to be appealed.
Though I fully suspect that if it gets to SCOTUS, there isn’t going to be much hope.
Doesn’t that precedent make it possible for medical records covering abortions to be used in the same way? Repubs would never allow that, they have too much to lose by having people find out what they’ve done.
Republicans would absolutely allow that. They are willing to bite their own noses off just to spit in their enemies faces.
How it would play out is selective prosecution where only
democratspoor people or non-whites get charged.White Christians would get a pass at best. Or blackmailed at worst.
Yeah, true. Their voters have zero integrity or consistency. And their propaganda networks will be pretending that voter fraud is happening as a cover so they’ll never know in the first place.
Tbh just names and addresses is bad enough. Find a way to make it public record and we’re screwed. My guess is they’ll start adding trans people to the sex offender registry, but I’m open to hearing other horrifying predictions about where this shit is going.
Republicans have recently been trying to push for the following two policies:
- Making sex offenses punishable by death
- Marking trans people as sex offenders
It’s easy to see where this is going. This is one of MANY reasons the country won’t survive another 4 years of Trump.
It mostly depends on what he does with the information. Any personally identifiable information that becomes public puts someone at serious risk of being persecuted or physically threatened.
The statement from Planned Parenthood includes:
Despite the Attorney General’s demand that PPSLR turn over all patient medical records related to gender-affirming care, the court ruled that individual patient records remain protected — a major victory for patients’ privacy rights.
I suspect this means the AG may receive de-identified records including procedure or diagnosis information, but not including any patient identifying information such as patient or billing account, name, address, social, date of birth, date of service, etc.
It could also include aggregate information about providers and facilities, especially if records are obtained under the guise of a fraud investigation, allowing the AG to target locations and providers where patients frequently obtain specific services. That route might be the most harmful to patients, for ex. if they’re unable to continue receiving care because of harassment of the providers.
