Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone on Wednesday accompanying five Chinese warships engaged in "combat readiness" patrols, the island's defence ministry said, the second such incursion this week.
Possibly, I didn’t look where they’re all from, nor do I know what hexbear is or why it’s significant. Sounds like some kind of intra-Lemmy drama which I’m not too interested in. Just noticed a fair amount, lets say…not totally organic, seemingly agenda pushing comments.
Edit: Forget my previous comment. I now see the problem with Hexbear.
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation…oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server
I love how liberals think anybody who’s outside of their echo chamber must be a paid shill. It’s absolutely inconceivable to them that there is a significant amount of people who have contrary opinions.
Hexbear is a large, leftist instance, that just recently federated, and most of us are pro-China. We’re not bots and we’re not getting paid, but we’re not shy about our political views. That’s the reason you’re suddenly seeing a bunch more comments defending China.
I know right! How come there are so, so many people defending China here? I thought they were the minority. Ugh. When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
It might be worth keeping in mind that Reddit has, for several years now, biased its moderation policy against the sort of voices who would object to OP, creating a neoliberal echochamber across most of the website.
Yea, it feels like 4chan suddenly saw the light and then turned far-left all at once. They act like what the far right imagines the left to be like, but just looks like really bad anti-leftist propaganda, or they’re just tankies :/ some hexbears are ok, though, but most here are just discrediting themselves by throwing the propaganda handbook at the passersby.
You are so far right that you call anything and everything to your left astroturfing. You’ve been in a bubble for so long that it’s a culture shock when you meet actual leftists.
Yes it is. Your failure to understand China’s structure and its goals is a personal failure on your part to seek that information, the information is out there.
If reading is too much for you (I suspect it is or you wouldn’t hold this opinion) then here is a very brief video by Professor Richard Wolff where he cites China as responsible for the globally rising interest in marxism.
If alternatively your position is that marxism is not leftist, you are a right wing clown and politically illiterate.
I am not near left or right, a 1 line axis is not enough to put all the political positions into account.
After reading the first link, socialism is kindof interesting at its core, but in china you have a person that controls eveything, China is a totalitarian state capitalist system. While Socialism would give people freedom, China is doing the opposite. I am not fully invested into this topic but you can’t tell me that stealing Money from bank accounts, allowing companies to do stupid investments that will become waste just to rise some numbers. Generally forbiding the fact that you have issues (disabled) or are different (religion or sexuality) is really just showing how similar this is to Hitlers time.
In Germany we have the Bundestag and its neither leftist or rightist as you elect the group you like which can be left-ist or right-ist, a group of multiple groups will be build for the few years that have together 50%. So if there is onr far-right group or far-left one, they won’t be able to actually do all the harm except people elect that group 50%.
Besides having every few years either same or slight different groups that regime, there is also the Grundgesetz which protect the Human rights at its core and is not changable except all 2 buildings and 1 person allow for this. With this, everthing should be possible while having freedom.
But for China I really don’t know what is the right thing. Its no different than America with capitalism at many levels because both intoxicate the human rights and nature environment. Somethinf like a Bundestag for China doesn’t seem like a great idea if it would be the main thing, because China wants to grow and the Bundestag is too slow for direct and instant changes. But without, you can see corruption at many corners in China.
I guess you missed the point that one person has the decision to control everything, of course there will be different groups controlling the details, but this is the person who is able to change. Just saying that I should read is pretty much stupid to say, you also just could say nothing, the message would be equal.
But i just gonna be you for a moment: If you do not believe this, you need to do a lot more reading.
Just send me your articles or whatever to justify whatever you mean and don’t be a dick.
I guess you missed the point that one person has the decision to control everything
No, he’s saying you’re wrong (and you are). In China there isn’t one person who controls everything. They have millions of elected officials, you don’t have any clue what you’re talking about.
So you are ignorant. Its ok we have all been there. To live is to learn. I would have an essay very similar to yours a couple years ago. Then I started doing some reading.
Essentially leftism v rightism boils down to either you think people all all equals and should be treated equally regardless or you believe some people are superior to others and should get to treat others as lesser. Its simple as that.
You also said “Its ok” and included that “all” have been there but its only you and the bubble community you live in like you are some superior peace of ****
If you say something is simple, then you are actually ignorant,
I didn’t say all of politics is simple. I said right vs Left is simple. Its an classification system made for the sole purpose of making a complex thing simple.
Its like you are getting hostile at me for saying “using google translate is simple” and saying “Translation is super hard. Learning a new language takes years and even then the subtleties of idioms and the nuance of culture play a significant role in how people speak. bridging the gap between two languages is super complex”
You also said “Its ok” and included that “all” have been there but its only you and the bubble community you live in like you are some superior peace of ****
I’m sorry if my tone came off as condescending but is Understanding not superior to ignorance? Ignorance is a natural state. We naturally transition from ignorance into understanding on many subjects through out our lives. There is no shame in that. clinging to ignorance however is shameful. Realizing you are ignorant is the first step to understanding. The next step is finding more information. I was just trying to encourage you. No need to be so defensive.
The part that you see me ignorant is the problem. Just because I don’t believe in socialism or capitalism or left vs right doesn’t mean I am ignorant. You somehow had an exam about leftism and rightism which did not include more standpoints because your exam topic was just left vs right. It feels like you are literally stuck in this one knowledge and can’t accept other statements. Its also called Dunning Kruger effect.
Oh, yes. Actual leftists that somehow support every action of a particular nation. Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information and gives incentives for supporting them publicly. Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to. Yep, totally sounds like actual leftists to me…
Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information
Yes, actual leftists. I’m going to quote to you some Marx. This is from Chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto which is basically a 30 page pamphlet, I suggest you read it. I want you to pay particular attention to number 6.
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.
As you can see, nothing here is at odds with that.
Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.
What groups? If you’re about to use Adrian Zenz as a source you are a joke. If you’re instead claiming that working to abolish the existence of the bourgeoisie is a bad thing you are a clown.
I don’t understand how people don’t understand that control of the means of communication in the hands of the proletariat is a MUST to create a DOTP. Who the fuck do they think owns the media? The proles? Fuck no, the bourgeoisie own the media. It’s ALL their media.
To empower the proletariat in the transitionary socialist state you MUST remove the advantages of the bourgeoisie. This is one of the biggest of them.
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries
Also note this part:
Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production…
Notice, “in the beginning.” Is China socialist or not? It is not the begining. The need to control the means of communication, as well as most of the rest of the goals, is to gain power over the bourgeoisie and place the power into the hands of the people. The means of communication must be seized in order to empower the people to communicate without their interference. How is the control that China has over communication providing for that and not the bourgeoisie itself controlling the media to prevent the people from communicating?
Socialism is the transitionary state between capitalism and communism. It exists in a state of warfare between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.
We are very far away from defeating capitalism and such measures will remain in place until we have defeated it globally. What the fuck are you thinking? “Yes I want to give billionaires the ability to own media in my proletarian state so they can spew garbage propaganda until their counter-revolution succeeds”. Are you out of your mind? What exactly do you gain from this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you are advocating for is empowering the bourgeoisie to crush and re-exploit you.
Ah, yes. China is definitely trying to defeat capitalism globally by opening and expanding special economic zones. If anything, China has become more capitalist (because it makes the current bourgeoisie who control the “communist” government more money). Xi Jinping seems to have an estimated value of at least $1 billion USD. He’s not of the working class. He’s from the political class.
Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.
Some people should be removed from society based on the groups they belong to. Nazis, for example. Pedophiles, probably. And definitely people who put pineapple on pizza.
No, they should be removed from society based on what they want to do. I don’t think the children of nazis should be removed just because they’re a part of that group.
Ideological belief is not a trait that is automatically passed on to children. Children of Liberals aren’t automatically liberals. Children of conservatives aren’t automatically conservatives.
The topic at hand is Western media drumming up support for the US’s next foreign policy disaster. The same way they did for Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam and so, so many others. I would have called this bullshit before I became a communist. You don’t need Marxist theory to see through the bullshit, just object permanence.
Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it.
Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least.
When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense.
Lots of suspicious comments in this thread. Seems like political astro-turfing has already arrived on Lemmy
You mean the ones from hexbear aka lemmygrad-lite?
Possibly, I didn’t look where they’re all from, nor do I know what hexbear is or why it’s significant. Sounds like some kind of intra-Lemmy drama which I’m not too interested in. Just noticed a fair amount, lets say…not totally organic, seemingly agenda pushing comments.
Edit: Forget my previous comment. I now see the problem with Hexbear.
agenda pushing is when people have an opinion that doesn’t align with my own
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation…oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server
lol, so your issue is that people with similar opinions happen to be on the same server? truly the most obvious evidence of agenda pushing!
I love how liberals think anybody who’s outside of their echo chamber must be a paid shill. It’s absolutely inconceivable to them that there is a significant amount of people who have contrary opinions.
Vastly popular opinion held by whom?
Anyone with half a brain can see what’s going on. I’m not playing these silly obfuscation games. You’re bad at what you do.
Yes, anybody with half a brain can see that you have paranoid delusions.
Damn wish my fragile ego could manipulate you into not being such a flaming
Hexbear is a large, leftist instance, that just recently federated, and most of us are pro-China. We’re not bots and we’re not getting paid, but we’re not shy about our political views. That’s the reason you’re suddenly seeing a bunch more comments defending China.
Dude what are you talking about I’m paying down my mortgage with the xibux I’m getting from dunking on libs here.
You guys have been getting paid!? The whole time??
I am literally swimming in oceans of renmibi right now scrooge mcduck style thanks to all the libs I have crushed at zaddie xi’s behest.
Plz tell Xi I have not received my payments this month I need it for buying Estrogen please Xi
Excuse you, Lemmygrad is Hexbear-lite
communists are able to see weak lies like these, shocking! WowWEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I know right! How come there are so, so many people defending China here? I thought they were the minority. Ugh. When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
If you can’t cope with people with different political beliefs to you being allowed to post, maybe you should go back to reddit.
I’m fine with people with different opinions than my own posting. It’s just the number of such people surprises me.
ps. I will not go back to reddit
You had it explained where they came from, and just ignored it so you could continue with your paranoid conspiracy theory.
Why not go back to reddit? You’ll like it there, they also have the extreme solipsism to think anyone who disagrees with them is a paid foreigner
I don’t even have a theory.
Clearly
I never had a “paranoid conspiracy theory” to begin with.
Alright, it just really seemed like you were agreeing with the ‘paid Chinese bots’ guy.
Go back to watching your Fox News
gee are you a bot
Go back to watching your Fox News
ok seems like you’re a bot
Seems like you believe Fox News bullshit
I hate fox news
Then quit repeating their lies
It might be worth keeping in mind that Reddit has, for several years now, biased its moderation policy against the sort of voices who would object to OP, creating a neoliberal echochamber across most of the website.
Yea, it feels like 4chan suddenly saw the light and then turned far-left all at once. They act like what the far right imagines the left to be like, but just looks like really bad anti-leftist propaganda, or they’re just tankies :/ some hexbears are ok, though, but most here are just discrediting themselves by throwing the propaganda handbook at the passersby.
We keep throwing books at you because we desperately wish you’d read.
You are so far right that you call anything and everything to your left astroturfing. You’ve been in a bubble for so long that it’s a culture shock when you meet actual leftists.
China is not leftist
Yes it is. Your failure to understand China’s structure and its goals is a personal failure on your part to seek that information, the information is out there.
I recommend reading this article, from Vijay Prashad’s organisation the Tricontinental Institute. It will give you a good run down on China’s movement through stages of production and its current goals. If you want to argue Vijay Prashad and his organisation are not leftist you’ll have to take that up with Noam Chomsky as well since they work together on practically everything now.
If reading is too much for you (I suspect it is or you wouldn’t hold this opinion) then here is a very brief video by Professor Richard Wolff where he cites China as responsible for the globally rising interest in marxism.
If alternatively your position is that marxism is not leftist, you are a right wing clown and politically illiterate.
I am not near left or right, a 1 line axis is not enough to put all the political positions into account.
After reading the first link, socialism is kindof interesting at its core, but in china you have a person that controls eveything, China is a totalitarian state capitalist system. While Socialism would give people freedom, China is doing the opposite. I am not fully invested into this topic but you can’t tell me that stealing Money from bank accounts, allowing companies to do stupid investments that will become waste just to rise some numbers. Generally forbiding the fact that you have issues (disabled) or are different (religion or sexuality) is really just showing how similar this is to Hitlers time.
In Germany we have the Bundestag and its neither leftist or rightist as you elect the group you like which can be left-ist or right-ist, a group of multiple groups will be build for the few years that have together 50%. So if there is onr far-right group or far-left one, they won’t be able to actually do all the harm except people elect that group 50%.
Besides having every few years either same or slight different groups that regime, there is also the Grundgesetz which protect the Human rights at its core and is not changable except all 2 buildings and 1 person allow for this. With this, everthing should be possible while having freedom.
But for China I really don’t know what is the right thing. Its no different than America with capitalism at many levels because both intoxicate the human rights and nature environment. Somethinf like a Bundestag for China doesn’t seem like a great idea if it would be the main thing, because China wants to grow and the Bundestag is too slow for direct and instant changes. But without, you can see corruption at many corners in China.
You need to do a lot more reading if you believe this
I guess you missed the point that one person has the decision to control everything, of course there will be different groups controlling the details, but this is the person who is able to change. Just saying that I should read is pretty much stupid to say, you also just could say nothing, the message would be equal.
But i just gonna be you for a moment: If you do not believe this, you need to do a lot more reading.
Just send me your articles or whatever to justify whatever you mean and don’t be a dick.
Again, not true.
Sorry mister “trust me bro” I also love to say that you are again, not right.
No, he’s saying you’re wrong (and you are). In China there isn’t one person who controls everything. They have millions of elected officials, you don’t have any clue what you’re talking about.
So you are ignorant. Its ok we have all been there. To live is to learn. I would have an essay very similar to yours a couple years ago. Then I started doing some reading.
Essentially leftism v rightism boils down to either you think people all all equals and should be treated equally regardless or you believe some people are superior to others and should get to treat others as lesser. Its simple as that.
If you say something is simple, then you are actually ignorant, literally. Its like saying: “There are only white and black people, simple as that.”
Politics is way more complex and diverse, if you are only able to think in one direction then just don reply to me wtf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
You also said “Its ok” and included that “all” have been there but its only you and the bubble community you live in like you are some superior peace of ****
I didn’t say all of politics is simple. I said right vs Left is simple. Its an classification system made for the sole purpose of making a complex thing simple.
Its like you are getting hostile at me for saying “using google translate is simple” and saying “Translation is super hard. Learning a new language takes years and even then the subtleties of idioms and the nuance of culture play a significant role in how people speak. bridging the gap between two languages is super complex”
I’m sorry if my tone came off as condescending but is Understanding not superior to ignorance? Ignorance is a natural state. We naturally transition from ignorance into understanding on many subjects through out our lives. There is no shame in that. clinging to ignorance however is shameful. Realizing you are ignorant is the first step to understanding. The next step is finding more information. I was just trying to encourage you. No need to be so defensive.
The part that you see me ignorant is the problem. Just because I don’t believe in socialism or capitalism or left vs right doesn’t mean I am ignorant. You somehow had an exam about leftism and rightism which did not include more standpoints because your exam topic was just left vs right. It feels like you are literally stuck in this one knowledge and can’t accept other statements. Its also called Dunning Kruger effect.
Bruh
Yeah because when all these “lefts” come from seemingly one instance (maybe two) they are totally not “living in a bubble” on their own.
Oh, yes. Actual leftists that somehow support every action of a particular nation. Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information and gives incentives for supporting them publicly. Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to. Yep, totally sounds like actual leftists to me…
Yes, actual leftists. I’m going to quote to you some Marx. This is from Chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto which is basically a 30 page pamphlet, I suggest you read it. I want you to pay particular attention to number 6.
As you can see, nothing here is at odds with that.
What groups? If you’re about to use Adrian Zenz as a source you are a joke. If you’re instead claiming that working to abolish the existence of the bourgeoisie is a bad thing you are a clown.
You didn’t just dunk him, you folded him into a ball and threw him into the sun
I don’t understand how people don’t understand that control of the means of communication in the hands of the proletariat is a MUST to create a DOTP. Who the fuck do they think owns the media? The proles? Fuck no, the bourgeoisie own the media. It’s ALL their media.
To empower the proletariat in the transitionary socialist state you MUST remove the advantages of the bourgeoisie. This is one of the biggest of them.
Must?
Also note this part:
Notice, “in the beginning.” Is China socialist or not? It is not the begining. The need to control the means of communication, as well as most of the rest of the goals, is to gain power over the bourgeoisie and place the power into the hands of the people. The means of communication must be seized in order to empower the people to communicate without their interference. How is the control that China has over communication providing for that and not the bourgeoisie itself controlling the media to prevent the people from communicating?
Socialism is the transitionary state between capitalism and communism. It exists in a state of warfare between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.
We are very far away from defeating capitalism and such measures will remain in place until we have defeated it globally. What the fuck are you thinking? “Yes I want to give billionaires the ability to own media in my proletarian state so they can spew garbage propaganda until their counter-revolution succeeds”. Are you out of your mind? What exactly do you gain from this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you are advocating for is empowering the bourgeoisie to crush and re-exploit you.
Ah, yes. China is definitely trying to defeat capitalism globally by opening and expanding special economic zones. If anything, China has become more capitalist (because it makes the current bourgeoisie who control the “communist” government more money). Xi Jinping seems to have an estimated value of at least $1 billion USD. He’s not of the working class. He’s from the political class.
Some people should be removed from society based on the groups they belong to. Nazis, for example. Pedophiles, probably. And definitely people who put pineapple on pizza.
No, they should be removed from society based on what they want to do. I don’t think the children of nazis should be removed just because they’re a part of that group.
Ideological belief is not a trait that is automatically passed on to children. Children of Liberals aren’t automatically liberals. Children of conservatives aren’t automatically conservatives.
Yes, which is why they shouldn’t be removed for being a part of a group. They are a part of it as children though.
Do you share 100% of the ideological beliefs of your parents? Have you done so from birth?
No, but when I was a child I would still consider myself part of their social group. Children don’t have the autonomy for anything else.
ck2 brain
edit: i mean 3 whatever
I was with you until the pineapple slander. It’s good on pizza folks, put it on there.
The topic at hand is Western media drumming up support for the US’s next foreign policy disaster. The same way they did for Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam and so, so many others. I would have called this bullshit before I became a communist. You don’t need Marxist theory to see through the bullshit, just object permanence.
it’s just liberalism. it permeates the very air we breath.
Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it.
Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least.
When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense.
Removed by mod
We have a lot of pro empire shills here after the reddit migration.
They’re laughable. I’ve gotten like 30 replies to 1 comment and then they say “You seem mad” Yes…I’m the mad one. 🙄
Please calm down, I’m worried about your mental health please
You seem upset
Why would anybody astroturf this shitty fucking website lmfao
Clearly, we’ve graduated from shitty fucking to just shitty.
They are watching, to think otherwise is foolish
Unlike Reddit, where the news pieces and opinions that are the most prominently featured are not influenced in any way, shape, or form by powerful institutions who want to push an agenda
A specter haunts the Lemmyverse. The specter of differing opinions 😱😱😱
The specter of Hexbear
: