• Danquebec@sh.itjust.works
    0·
    6 months ago

    I would say this problem mostly exists in black metal, and blackened subgenres. Not saying it doesn’t exist in other metal genres, bit it’s much rarer.

  • raptir@lemmy.zipEnglish
    0·
    6 months ago

    This is why I mostly listen to prog, they’re all way too high to hate anyone.

  • masquenox@lemmy.world
    0·
    6 months ago

    A few years ago I found this band I liked - then I saw they literally played a concert for the staff at Guantanamo. Man… that was sickening.

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
        0·
        6 months ago

        Red/Anarchist Black Metal. In response to NSBM, National Socialist Black Metal, RABM was formed, it’s an umbrella term for outwardly leftist Black Metal as opposed to outwardly Nazi Black Metal. Marxists and Anarchists describe themselves as RABM if they want to signal their views faster.

        Panopticon is a good example.

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
            0·
            6 months ago

            I really don’t know what you mean, it’s an explicitly anti-sectarian umbrella of Marxists and Anarchists. Among them are Marxist-Leninists, Anarchists, Orthodox Marxists, even Libertarian Socialists and Market Socialists.

            It’s going to attract people under the umbrella of Socialism.

  • Dandroid@sh.itjust.works
    0·
    6 months ago

    When I was like 13 and was learning to play guitar, I learned sooo many songs by Avenged Sevenfold. And then I saw pictures of them playing concerts with the confederate flag, and even had custom confederate flag guitars. I lived a pretty sheltered life and didn’t quite understand how big of a deal that was at the time, but it definitely felt a little gross to me. I slowly stopped listening to them.

    They did eventually come out and say that they regret doing that, for what it’s worth. But I never went back to listening to them.

    • kralk@lemm.ee
      0·
      6 months ago

      Not metal, but Ghost Mice really shocked me. The guy was like “yeah I did that shit, sorry” and was just never seen again.

    • Neato@ttrpg.networkEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      Yeah. I find that a lot in very disparate genres, too. I pretty much have to look up anyone I like more than a little now.

    • Devi@kbin.social
      0·
      6 months ago

      Bonus points for his fans shouting about how he wasn’t convicted so “He was totally cleared of all that, they’re just jealous psychos!”

      Because everyone knows sexual assault is notoriously well dealt with.

      • asteriskeverything@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        Speaking from general life experience, a lot of those fans are potential victims of the same treatment themselves minors/women

        So if you have a child or friend that speaks like that, it is a red flag to pay closer attention to the people they build relationships with and their behavior. I’m not talking about protecting kids from drugs and sex, I mean protect them predators and abuse.

        • Devi@kbin.social
          0·
          6 months ago

          True. I have a lot of friends who dated abusers AFTER they abused someone else, and parrotted the “his ex was a psycho and made it all up” line.

          Sometimes the ex is a psycho, but like 99% of the time they aren’t.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
        0·
        6 months ago

        I mean, if none of the 35 allegations actually go anywhere, I’m not going to assume they actually did something either. Seems sus on all accounts.

        • Devi@kbin.social
          0·
          6 months ago

          If 35 different people say they were sexually assaulted by someone then the chances that all of them are untrue is miniscule.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
            0·
            6 months ago

            And somehow none of them having nothing to show for it in court, hmm. I feel like that’s less likely, considering how easy it is to accuse (especially anonymously). I guess it all depends on the what sort of accusations they are and how detailed, if the facts seem plausible etc. If it’s 35 very credible accusations from people speaking out in their own name, uh oh, that sounds pretty bad. If it’s 35 pretty vague seeming accusations on Twitter from anonymous accounts, ehh I’ll definitely wait for something more concrete. And after all in court you’d only need one of them to succeed for all of them to seem credible, but with none of them succeeding, I’m starting to doubt the accusations.

        • Promethiel@lemmy.world
          0·
          6 months ago

          Fool me one, shame on you, fool me 35 times shame on… that’s really the stance you want to take? Seems sus alright, but trust and verify is for cold war movies.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
            0·
            6 months ago

            If none of the accusations go anywhere then yeah that’s a bit sus on the case of the accusers. I get that those things are hard to prosecute but 35 cases and nothing to show for it? Sus.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
        0·
        6 months ago

        Rammstein isn’t metal it’s NDH. The Genre does have metal influence but you could just as well call it Industrial Punk (in particular in regards to Rammstein). There’s plenty of groove metal in there if you know what to listen for but this doesn’t sound anywhere close to Pantera.

        And if Rammstein being a bunch of Punks with way too much artistic concept wasn’t enough you have to literally ignore their Discography to think they’re right-wing.

        • Cruxifux@feddit.nl
          0·
          6 months ago

          I know rammstein isn’t metal. Lots of people consider them metal though. And I didn’t say they were right wing, but the band did get in a lot of trouble in the last few years over sexually abusing people. A lot of people. That’s why I asked.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            0·
            6 months ago

            And I didn’t say they were right wing, but the band did get in a lot of trouble in the last few years over sexually abusing people

            It was alleged that. What’s true is that there were plenty of 0-row aftershow parties with plenty of drugs and sex involving Till. Which is problematic in itself but as it seems (if we take the state attorney’s conclusions as gospel truth) nothing nun-consentual went on. What’s left is allegations by two women who, as far as I’m aware, never themselves filed criminal complaints (which would expose them to possible false accusation charges).

            What I took away from the whole thing is that Till is a creepy yet decent hedonist and it’s good that he’s got pushback over his behaviour, but it’s also not a thing he should be crucified for. He’s not 20-something any more, he should understand iffy consent mechanics when it comes to 20-something groupies better at his age.

  • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    0·
    6 months ago

    This is very much a Slayer moment, except that reading the bands and the members, Hanneman’s Araya’s and King’s wiki pages is quite a rollercoaster

  • lobut@lemmy.ca
    0·
    6 months ago

    Saw a random YouTuber I thought I liked do a livestream. He usually does reactionary or random updates content.

    I go in and he’s ragging on Biden and I see people doing SuperChats with pro-Trump messages and just casual racism. Apparently, Biden’s PR person probably should have been white according to these guys. I ducked out, was quite kinda sad.

  • Bourff@lemmy.world
    0·
    6 months ago

    Metal bands are mostly nazis? Is that the news “satanic scare” like we had in the 80’s?

      • Bourff@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        Of course there are nazis bands, especially I’m black metal. But that’s a minority, and they generally suck anyway. But I’m not into BM at all personally, so I don’t bother tbh.

      • fitgse@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        6 months ago

        This is a tiny portion of black metal in a sub genre . But it isn’t surprising that an extreme genre with a strong counter culture doesn’t have some extreme spin-offs.

        Also you can tell which bands are in NSBM because they are all terrible at actually making music.

      • Bananobanza@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        Lol, a lot of those names are a little too on the nose. I mean Kristalnacht and Infernall SS? Can’t imagine making a wrong assumption on those

    • Shiggles@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      6 months ago

      It’s not a majority, but it is a higher risk factor. Especially when Sweden/Finland produce a lot of metal bands and are also a higher risk factor for nazi sympathy - by and large they certainly don’t idealize them but they also aren’t always vilified to the same level as you might expect elsewhere

      • toofpic@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        Yeah, and the aggression in music easily syncs with literal agreccion of the third reich, so it’s a low-hanging fruit if you don’t have other ideas for music and songs. Lemme try:
        Panzer death
        Panzer death
        Blood soaked brothers march
        Panzer death
        Panzer death
        Glory to our patriarch

        bonus points for samples of machinegun added to drums, lyrics in German, bandmembers photographed in pseudo-nazi uniform, etc.

        Some idiots will listen that on repeat in no time

        Edit: Listen to Hanzel und Gretel - SS Deathstar Supergalaktik, it covers most of the the cliches

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        It’s also something that’s more related to some genres of music than others. It’s definitely a much bigger issue in metal than you would find in, say, jazz or electronica. On the other hand, it’s more overt than the kind of Nazis you find in country music, and they get much more publicized.

            • root_beer@midwest.socialEnglish
              0·
              6 months ago

              The good ol’ American tradition of forcing squaredance onto kids in schools—I was a victim myself from the ‘80s to the mid ‘90s—was borne of the fear and disgust of the black and Jewish roots of jazz, with Hitler idol Henry Ford being a big advocate for it.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                0·
                6 months ago

                Yep, and one of the ways cannabis was demonized in the first half of the 20th century was by associating it with jazz culture, making it very much something that “they” did.

        • root_beer@midwest.socialEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          It’s definitely a much bigger issue in metal than you would find in, say, jazz or electronica.

          For a while, and I assume it continues today, there was/is a synth subgenre called fashwave, a Nazi-adjacent take on vaporwave. I imagine they have a niche elsewhere in the electro scene, and prob. industrial too?

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          0·
          6 months ago

          jazz or electronica.

          Gabber pretty much inherited all the Nazis Punks threw out of concerts and are, to their credit, also not terribly unlikely to throw them out of concerts. There’s definitely infiltration going on when it comes to Dark Techno. When it comes to Jazz it shouldn’t be too terribly fucking surprising that white supremacists don’t like it. It was outlawed in the Third Reich, though they also produced their own for foreign propaganda purposes.

      • kronisk @lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        Nazis are absolutely vilified in Sweden and Finland, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’d say NSBM bands is a lot more prevalent in Eastern Europe and Russia.

    • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
      0·
      6 months ago

      Yeah Nazis are a problem in pretty much all subcultures. Industrial, punk, goth, and so on. Subcultures attract people who don’t feel like they have a place, and this is the group extremist groups target.

      • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        6 months ago

        Yeah Nazis are a problem in pretty much all subcultures

        I don’t know if I agree with that; well, I agree they’re always a problem, but if you’re a Jazz or Blues fan for example, I imagine there aren’t the same issues we have in Metal.

        • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
          0·
          6 months ago

          They get the other side of the coin. Friend of mine has played harmonica for a long time, has played with/been in numerous blues bands. You will find a lot of heavily anti-white, black nationalism. Like the “we need to exterminate all white people for any chance at peace and prosperity” types.

          • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            Last I checked, yes here it is:

            As an ideology, black nationalism encompasses a diverse range of beliefs which have variously included forms of economic, political and cultural nationalism, or pan-nationalism.[9][7] It often overlaps with, but is distinguished from, similar concepts and movements such as Pan-Africanism, Ethiopianism, the back-to-Africa movement, Afrocentrism, Black Zionism, and Garveyism.[5] Critics of black nationalism say it promotes racial and ethnic nationalism, separatism and black supremacy, and they compare it to white nationalism and white supremacy. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center says that black nationalist groups exist in a “categorically different” environment than white nationalists in the United States.

            I’m white, my dad (also white) played blues guitar, and I’ve never run into anything remotely like what you’re describing.

            And if it turns out that the SPLC was totally wrong, and ‘Black Nationalism’ takes over and commits genocide on white people, that’s definitely something we’ll be worried about.

            • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
              0·
              6 months ago

              Well your experience has been very different. He has been handed literature explaining how the prosperity of the african people can not exist in world with europeans and asians. My friend is not white, might be the difference here. He has run into numerous recruiters for this ideology in a number of different forms. Any form of ethnonationalism is bad. Just because where you live, it is a minority, and therefore isn’t some eminent concern of going third reich, does not make it not bad.