Your egocentrism is showing, USAian. I don’t even know where to begin dismantling your bullshit from how awefully absurd it is.
tuition for prestigious education out of reach of the common person
“Prestigious private education”? Are you joking? The people who take private higher education are effectively ridiculed, not to mention how private schools/colleges are always lacking – e.g. back in the day, when I compared my curriculum (actually prestigious public university) with all relevent private alternatives, they’d always be one year or more behind, which also means they’d finish their course with a huge gap in knowledge.
in many countries there’s a modest fee the government will pay out
Here in Brazil you can get upwards of two minimum wages. How is it that Brazil can afford this, but apparently the US couldn’t? Besides that, yes, you may need a side job – that’s what non-abusive internship/trainee positions are for. You work a few hours per day at a relevant position to your minor/major to get cash and relevant experience.
They come back at you in the form of decades of tax rates.
Except those decades of taxes ALSO pay for my healthcare (excellent, btw), bicycle infrastructure, to maintain parks, to protect local fauna and flora, for libraries, etc etc
I’m not even American. And I am in favour of completely revamping the American education system, for the good of the students there.
“Prestigious private education”? Are you joking?
No. There are private education institutes all over the world. The places where real power concentrates, where the old royalty gathers. Not the best in terms of scientific endeavours, but that’s not what those places are about anyway. It’s all about making connections.
How is it that Brazil can afford this, but apparently the US couldn’t?
Double minimum wage in the USA is barely enough to cover rent in the cities, because the USA has a minimum wage of $7.50 per hour. The yearly spending (18.1 million students * ($7.50 * 4.25 weeks * 40 hours * 2) * 12) would add $553 billion to the $159 billion that’s already spent on education. For college kids that stay within their state, that may cover costs, but if you live in bumfuck nowhere and want to do something other than agricultural tech (or whatever your local college is actually good at), you’re quickly paying 85% of the $30k you’re receiving in tuition fees alone. Factor in an average monthly rent (ranging from $914-$1817 per month) and you quickly need a second full-time minimum wage job just to cover your expenses, let alone get any studying done.
You work a few hours per day at a relevant position to your minor/major to get cash and relevant experience.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but how feasible that is completely depends on your field of study. Plenty of jobs in computer programming, not a whole lot of side jobs in philosophy. For many jobs you also need some kind of certification, you can’t be a part-time lawyer without passing the bar exam, which is gonna be tough if you’ve just started your education. Also, not every student has the ability to stay on top of homework and keep a job, i.e. because they need to take care of family.
Except those decades of taxes ALSO pay for my healthcare (excellent, btw), bicycle infrastructure, to maintain parks, to protect local fauna and flora, for libraries, etc etc
I never said taxes were exclusively used for education. Education spend comes down to a sliver of tax expenditure compared to healthcare spend, for sure, even in the USA with the rather lacking Medicaid they have over there.
I’m just sick of the idea some people have that just because the government pays for it, you’re not ending up paying that money back anyway. This is how you get the types of boomers that refuse to pay taxes to fund education, because they got theirs for free back when the system wasn’t quite so broken. Nothing is free, education is simply a worthwhile investment.
The loans themselves aren’t close to the root of the problem. The entire system is fucked up. Huge loans with compound interest are handed out to kids studying subjects that have no chance of ever making enough to pay their loans back. The responsibility for these loans has shifted from (semi) government to private banking. Parents and grandparents get involved and fall into debt, too, because people don’t seem to know how different types of interest work and take out loans they can’t afford. The $42k-10k of debt that college tuition will take would be negligible if it weren’t for the way interest and late fees are applied.
The USA won’t fix their problems by making loans disappear a few times per decade. They need to fix the system that caused the problem, and then forgive loans. Forgiving loans is a cheap measure that works for the short term with terrible results down the line, in exactly the same way the gradual changes to the student loan system has led to the current fucked-up state of American education.
The places where real power concentrates, where the old royalty gathers. Not the best in terms of scientific endeavours, but that’s not what those places are about anyway. It’s all about making connections.
I.E. completely irrelevant. Got it.
Double minimum wage in the USA is barely enough to cover rent in the cities
The fix seems pretty obvious, eh?
would add $553 billion
I.E., even ignoring the fact that not all students would require this monetary assistance, less than the budget for the 'murican war machine. Seems fine to me.
you’re quickly paying 85% of the $30k you’re receiving in tuition fees alone
??? Why would they be paying the tuition fees with free public education available?
I think I fixed it. Hope Lemmy gets a WYSIWYG editor one of these days.
I.E. completely irrelevant. Got it.
Depends on your country and the career you’re aiming for. Private educational facilities specialising in finance and econometry tend to educate their students much better.
The fix seems pretty obvious, eh?
Yes, just convince half of the USA to vote differently, and for the left-wing party to actually become left-wing rather than just making empty promises. Can’t be that hard, both parts only have been trying to do that for the last 300 years!
I.E., even ignoring the fact that not all students would require this monetary assistance, less than the budget for the 'murican war machine. Seems fine to me.
The 'murican war machine is what’s preventing Russia’s invasion into Europe right now. It also provided education and possibilities to countless Afghan women before some idiot decided to undo the work they’ve been doing in one fell swoop. It’s got its upsides.
Also, the people being paid those $750 billion dollars will need to find new jobs. I guess they can try to become professors?
??? Why would they be paying the tuition fees with free public education available?
Fair enough, I suppose; I was influenced by the way this works in my country. Just add the amount that they don’t have to pay to the billions I calculated before if the state funds the educational facilities directly. Quick napkin math leads me to about $283 billion dollars on top of your study grants.
Your egocentrism is showing, USAian. I don’t even know where to begin dismantling your bullshit from how awefully absurd it is.
“Prestigious private education”? Are you joking? The people who take private higher education are effectively ridiculed, not to mention how private schools/colleges are always lacking – e.g. back in the day, when I compared my curriculum (actually prestigious public university) with all relevent private alternatives, they’d always be one year or more behind, which also means they’d finish their course with a huge gap in knowledge.
Here in Brazil you can get upwards of two minimum wages. How is it that Brazil can afford this, but apparently the US couldn’t? Besides that, yes, you may need a side job – that’s what non-abusive internship/trainee positions are for. You work a few hours per day at a relevant position to your minor/major to get cash and relevant experience.
Except those decades of taxes ALSO pay for my healthcare (excellent, btw), bicycle infrastructure, to maintain parks, to protect local fauna and flora, for libraries, etc etc
I’m not even American. And I am in favour of completely revamping the American education system, for the good of the students there.
I’m just sick of the idea some people have that just because the government pays for it, you’re not ending up paying that money back anyway. This is how you get the types of boomers that refuse to pay taxes to fund education, because they got theirs for free back when the system wasn’t quite so broken. Nothing is free, education is simply a worthwhile investment.
The loans themselves aren’t close to the root of the problem. The entire system is fucked up. Huge loans with compound interest are handed out to kids studying subjects that have no chance of ever making enough to pay their loans back. The responsibility for these loans has shifted from (semi) government to private banking. Parents and grandparents get involved and fall into debt, too, because people don’t seem to know how different types of interest work and take out loans they can’t afford. The $42k-10k of debt that college tuition will take would be negligible if it weren’t for the way interest and late fees are applied.
The USA won’t fix their problems by making loans disappear a few times per decade. They need to fix the system that caused the problem, and then forgive loans. Forgiving loans is a cheap measure that works for the short term with terrible results down the line, in exactly the same way the gradual changes to the student loan system has led to the current fucked-up state of American education.
First, your formatting is completely broken.
Second:
I.E. completely irrelevant. Got it.
The fix seems pretty obvious, eh?
I.E., even ignoring the fact that not all students would require this monetary assistance, less than the budget for the 'murican war machine. Seems fine to me.
??? Why would they be paying the tuition fees with free public education available?
I think I fixed it. Hope Lemmy gets a WYSIWYG editor one of these days.
Depends on your country and the career you’re aiming for. Private educational facilities specialising in finance and econometry tend to educate their students much better.
Yes, just convince half of the USA to vote differently, and for the left-wing party to actually become left-wing rather than just making empty promises. Can’t be that hard, both parts only have been trying to do that for the last 300 years!
The 'murican war machine is what’s preventing Russia’s invasion into Europe right now. It also provided education and possibilities to countless Afghan women before some idiot decided to undo the work they’ve been doing in one fell swoop. It’s got its upsides.
Also, the people being paid those $750 billion dollars will need to find new jobs. I guess they can try to become professors?
Fair enough, I suppose; I was influenced by the way this works in my country. Just add the amount that they don’t have to pay to the billions I calculated before if the state funds the educational facilities directly. Quick napkin math leads me to about $283 billion dollars on top of your study grants.