I’ve come to the conclusion from this thread and others that liberals either don’t believe or can’t comprehend that leftists consider Palestinians to be actual human beings whose lives are inherently valuable. The way they see it, we’re whiny children throwing a fit because we were refused a puppy. I keep seeing people talk about opposition to genocide as “an individual want” or “being upset that you got bread instead of a cake,” and so on, characterizing us as selfishly prioritizing our individual preferences, because in their minds it’s just about us feeling bad when we see dying Palestinians, and not about the Palestinians themselves.
Opposition to genocide is a hard red line and a fundamental moral principle. It’s not a want, it’s not a preference, it is a demand which is absolutely non-negotiable.
I’m never going to be convinced to vote for Biden, but if you actually care about convincing leftists, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot by trivializing the issue. Of course, the most effective way to convince an opponent of genocide to support a politician would be to get the politician to stop supporting genocide, but if you choose to focus you efforts on getting leftists to stop opposing genocide instead, I can’t stop you.
How about we flip this around and talk about trivializing the issue of having a Trump-led slide into fascism and any attempt at leftist organising getting you thrown into a camp… while Palestinians are still getting bombed because Israel certainly doesn’t need the US’s help to produce arms. Mabye that’s an evil enough evil to convince you that the lesser evil is, indeed, the lesser one.
Nobody is trivializing Trump. The fact is that the Democrats are getting worse and worse, and will commit more and more atrocities and crimes if nobody holds them accountable. Ask yourself why they’d rather have Trump become a president instead of stopping to aid in a fucking genocide? Also the Dems were happy to continue most of Trumps policies, like internment camps at the borders and building that infamous wall. By supporting the Dems no matter what all you get is the Dems in 4 years to be where the Reps are now.
Also the Dems were happy to continue most of Trumps policies,
I’m still waiting for the people held without a trail in Guantanamo to be released. There have been 11 years of Democratic Presidential leadership since then…
they’d rather have Trump become a president instead of stopping to aid in a fucking genocide?
Trump is no less likely to support Israel, on top of that he’s a gazillion times more likely to support genocides within the US itself.
By supporting the Dems no matter what all you get is the Dems in 4 years to be where the Reps are now.
That’s what you get by not organising civil society to move past the current bipartisan BS. Make the right policies popular and politicians will rise to support those policies because guess what, politicians want to get elected. Therefore, yes, it’s true that the solution is not electoralism, also, yes, it’s also true that you shouldn’t shoot yourself in both foot and knee by allowing democracy to be abolished and organisation, changing the mind of the people, to be made illegal.
Also the Dems were happy to continue most of Trumps policies
I’m sorry did Biden order the army to break up strikes with artillery or something. Must’ve missed that.
A protest vote won’t save Gaza. It will allow the war in russia to expand and get more innocents killed though. I do wish people wouldn’t trivialize the second Ukrainian genocide they’re risking.
What exactly is the game plan for Ukraine anyway? It seems to be headed for a stalemate along their current borders. If that happens, how long will the US need to keep funding them? 10 years? 20?
The war in Ukraine is tragic but it doesn’t fit the classification a genocide, and regardless, I’m not going to vote for one genocide to stop another. As I said, genocide is a hard red line that I will never support, even if you put a gun to my head.
In two years of the Russian invasion the UN gives a confirmed minimum of 10.700 killed Civilians and 20.000 wounded by the End of February 2024. Ukraine reports another 11.000 missing and 28.000 captive by Nov/Dec 2023.
So even extrapolating that till may, for a two year period we are nowhere near close to the killing of Civilians by Israel in Gaza within just 7 months. Russias invasion of Ukraine is illegal, it is appalling and it is a grave injustice with Millions of people suffering. But in terms of murder of Civilians it is hardly comparable. Especially when considering that Ukraine has a population of about 34 Million whereas Gaza has a population of about 2 Million.
I’ve come to the conclusion from this thread and others that liberals either don’t believe or can’t comprehend that leftists consider Palestinians to be actual human beings whose lives are inherently valuable. The way they see it, we’re whiny children throwing a fit because we were refused a puppy. I keep seeing people talk about opposition to genocide as “an individual want” or “being upset that you got bread instead of a cake,” and so on, characterizing us as selfishly prioritizing our individual preferences, because in their minds it’s just about us feeling bad when we see dying Palestinians, and not about the Palestinians themselves.
Opposition to genocide is a hard red line and a fundamental moral principle. It’s not a want, it’s not a preference, it is a demand which is absolutely non-negotiable.
I’m never going to be convinced to vote for Biden, but if you actually care about convincing leftists, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot by trivializing the issue. Of course, the most effective way to convince an opponent of genocide to support a politician would be to get the politician to stop supporting genocide, but if you choose to focus you efforts on getting leftists to stop opposing genocide instead, I can’t stop you.
How about we flip this around and talk about trivializing the issue of having a Trump-led slide into fascism and any attempt at leftist organising getting you thrown into a camp… while Palestinians are still getting bombed because Israel certainly doesn’t need the US’s help to produce arms. Mabye that’s an evil enough evil to convince you that the lesser evil is, indeed, the lesser one.
Nobody is trivializing Trump. The fact is that the Democrats are getting worse and worse, and will commit more and more atrocities and crimes if nobody holds them accountable. Ask yourself why they’d rather have Trump become a president instead of stopping to aid in a fucking genocide? Also the Dems were happy to continue most of Trumps policies, like internment camps at the borders and building that infamous wall. By supporting the Dems no matter what all you get is the Dems in 4 years to be where the Reps are now.
I’m still waiting for the people held without a trail in Guantanamo to be released. There have been 11 years of Democratic Presidential leadership since then…
Trump is no less likely to support Israel, on top of that he’s a gazillion times more likely to support genocides within the US itself.
That’s what you get by not organising civil society to move past the current bipartisan BS. Make the right policies popular and politicians will rise to support those policies because guess what, politicians want to get elected. Therefore, yes, it’s true that the solution is not electoralism, also, yes, it’s also true that you shouldn’t shoot yourself in both foot and knee by allowing democracy to be abolished and organisation, changing the mind of the people, to be made illegal.
I’m sorry did Biden order the army to break up strikes with artillery or something. Must’ve missed that.
You’re the one shooting yourself in the foot, you just don’t want to be cognizant of it, so you rationalize it away.
There is no version of the trolley problem that absolves you of guilt for sabotaging leftist causes if you don’t vote for Biden.
You’re a child throwing a tantrum.
Exhibit A.
A protest vote won’t save Gaza. It will allow the war in russia to expand and get more innocents killed though. I do wish people wouldn’t trivialize the second Ukrainian genocide they’re risking.
What exactly is the game plan for Ukraine anyway? It seems to be headed for a stalemate along their current borders. If that happens, how long will the US need to keep funding them? 10 years? 20?
The war in Ukraine is tragic but it doesn’t fit the classification a genocide, and regardless, I’m not going to vote for one genocide to stop another. As I said, genocide is a hard red line that I will never support, even if you put a gun to my head.
In two years of the Russian invasion the UN gives a confirmed minimum of 10.700 killed Civilians and 20.000 wounded by the End of February 2024. Ukraine reports another 11.000 missing and 28.000 captive by Nov/Dec 2023.
So even extrapolating that till may, for a two year period we are nowhere near close to the killing of Civilians by Israel in Gaza within just 7 months. Russias invasion of Ukraine is illegal, it is appalling and it is a grave injustice with Millions of people suffering. But in terms of murder of Civilians it is hardly comparable. Especially when considering that Ukraine has a population of about 34 Million whereas Gaza has a population of about 2 Million.