• stembolts@programming.dev
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          2 months ago

          Yea, it’s the subsidies. The government of China funds questionably profitable companies such that they can sell their products at what would be a loss by any other company, undermining the values of competition in Europe/States.

          What does China get out of it? Chinese products distributed globally running Chinese software and sensors which are beholden to the whims of the Chinese Government. They also get to weaken the economies of the target countries.

          The United States does similar things with intelligence, but citizens of that country can at least condemn, research, and publish findings against it’s own government. What can a Chinese citizen do? Very little except obey.

          The United States is also massively flawed when it comes to competition but at least there are theoretical methods for the citizens of that country to change things. If they can destroy the corporate plutocracy currently strangling democracy.

            • stembolts@programming.dev
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              2 months ago

              Being an open country has upsides and downsides certainly. The same could be said for Russia/China’s information war exploiting freedom of speech on those not educated in critical thought.

            • 3volver@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              China isn’t a communist country, it’s a totalitarian country.

              Characterized by a government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control. Totalitarianism is a political system and a form of government that prohibits opposition political parties, disregards and outlaws the political claims of individual and group opposition to the state, and controls the public sphere and the private sphere of society.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

              Communism is defined as:

              political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

              • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                It calls itself communist just like a big chunk of the world calls itself capitalist but doesn’t let the market regulate itself

                • 3volver@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  North Korea calls itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Do you also refer to North Korea as a Democratic country?

                  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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                    2 months ago

                    If I was making a similar comment using North Korea and in relation to democracy I would 100% exploit the fact that it calls itself a democracy.

          • callouscomic@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            As if the US doesn’t also subsidize and funnel money into specific companies/industries for questionable reasons.

        • Grimy@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Every car manufacturer receives massive subsidies no matter where they are located.

          This is oil money, nothing more, nothing less.

      • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        You might want to look at some of the loosening child labor laws here in the US. Hyundai’s plants have been caught several times using child labor.

        I’m not defending China’s practices by any means because many are truly horrific but the US is pretty far from perfect in many states.

        • MagneticFusion@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          I have actually heard about that and it is very unfortunate. But it is still no match for having Uyghur Muslims in concentration camps and using them as forceful labor (just like how the nazis did with the Jews). Both are horrible, but one is clearly much darker and more disgusing than the other allowing them to make them even cheaper, on top of thr already mentioned chinese government subsidies.

      • iopq@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        What child labor? There are no kids in China, they have some of the lowest fertility in the world and the most intense school hours for the rest

        You’re like 40 years out of date

    • 5in1k@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I’m not working in the conditions the Chinese have decided is ok. They can be poor and live in barracks at factories, I like free time and money.

      • CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        So youre saying American cars dont import any parts? They dont preassemble overseas? Everything is 100% made by american Union labor?

    • juicy@lemmy.today
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      2 months ago

      Yes, and it’s poor Americans who need a vehicle to buy groceries and get to work everyday who are getting shafted while the automakers rake in the profits. Not to mention the environmental costs of driving on fossil fuels.

      • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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        2 months ago

        Allowing China to sell these vehicles here at well below cost is only going to shaft poor Americans even further. They’re trying to do what Walmart does to small-town economies.

        • hark@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          You give a great example because the US has no problem with shafting poor Americans if it’s American companies (i.e. big donors to American politicians) doing the shafting. At least we’d get affordable vehicles from these Chinese companies. Meanwhile the complacent American auto companies have engorged themselves on profits from overpriced vehicles, announcing record-breaking profits, and refusing to reduce prices even when supply chain issues have been worked out. This is after American auto companies sat around with their thumbs up their asses, dragging their heels on developing electric vehicles, and even working against the development of them. Now they’re claiming that demand for EVs isn’t actually all that great, but for some reason they’re afraid of Chinese EVs (probably because the Chinese are giving customers what they actually want – affordable practical EVs).

          These leeches needed to be bailed out and they will forever need to be bailed out because instead of running a business that gives people what they want, they just do whatever can extract the most money out of people while squandering the profits on stock buybacks and fat bonuses for their executives. They’re considered too big to fail, but really they’re too big to exist.

          • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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            2 months ago

            You can make up dastardly schemes to explain the prices all you want but this isn’t borne out in reality. The bigger EV manufacturers here, outside of Tesla, aren’t even American companies, they’re South Korean and European and they’re all selling their vehicles for similar prices to American companies. Tesla seems to be doing pretty well with sales, which means plenty of people are willing to pay these prices.

            Additionally, apart from Tesla, there are only two American auto companies, GM and Ford, so I don’t know why you think they’re controlling the entire auto industry in the US.

        • Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Chinese EV companies are rather profitable, with BYD making billions of yuan profit last year. On the other hand, Rivian is losing, what was it, just about $40,000 per car?

          • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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            2 months ago

            And that profit is coming straight from the government as there is no way they’re making billions in profit by selling brand new cars for $10k in 2024. There is zero margin there.

            • Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              They have cars from $10k to $200+k. BYD includes a bunch of brands, including the Yangwang brand which builds the $150k U8 and the $230k U9. Not to mention their busses which are used around the world.

              • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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                2 months ago

                Cool but I don’t see how that’s relevant to the discussion of them trying to sell $10k EVs in the US.

                Nobody here is arguing to buy a $230,000 Chinese EV.