- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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I’m not aware of a single jurisdiction on the planet that makes Tesla liable for what the vehicle does when autopilot is enabled. In order to activate autopilot you have to accept about 3 different disclaimers on the car’s screen that state VERY clearly how you are still responsible for the vehicle and you must intervene if it starts behaving dangerously.
I’ve been driving with autopilot for over 2 years, and while it has done some stupid stuff before (taking wrong turns, getting in the wrong lane, etc.), it has NEVER come close to hitting another vehicle or person. Any time something out of the ordinary happens, I disengage autopilot and take over.
If someone is injured or killed by a Tesla car, they can sue the company directly, regardless of any legal agreements you may have as the owner. Whether they win is a different question, but they might win if they could show that Tesla was negligent, and especially if Tesla was willfully negligent.
Just because you think you’re responsible, even if you agreed in triplicate that you’re responsible, doesn’t necessarily make you legally responsible, depending on the circumstances. And that’s the way it should be.
Condolences on owning a tesla
You can think whatever you want, but my experience driving it has been perfectly fine. Range is great, the car is not falling apart like some people claim, it was not delivered with any issues, and chargers are plentiful where I live. Those are the main things I (and many others) care about in a vehicle. I don’t care what the CEO does or says online. I have a Ford as well and couldn’t even tell you who the CEO of Ford is.
Bro bought a Tesla just 2 years ago. Long after it was very widely known just how much of an arsehole Musk was, and after many other excellent EVs were on the market.
I’ll let you draw the conclusions from those facts.
When I bought my car, there were no widespread plans for other manufactures to adopt NACS, you couldn’t get your hands on a Rivian for less than $100k, and I was commonly driving long distances for work so I needed a vehicle with long range that I could charge quickly on trips. Tesla checked all the boxes.
I haven’t experienced any of these super widespread quality or reliability issues people on the internet talk about. It was delivered with no issues, has needed very little maintenance (just tire rotations basically), and it’s not falling apart like some would lead you to believe. I don’t know what to say other than that my personal experience with the vehicle has been great, and that’s what I really care about in a vehicle. I don’t buy cars based off what the CEO says on Twitter.
Hate Musk or not, the Tesla is still a very good car. In many markets still the better value often times.
Yeah and while Elon is the fucking worst I assume not everyone knows that he is the Tesla man. It’s incredible actually how much he’s intertwined with the brand. I would totally buy a Toyota or whatever and I couldn’t tell you the name of their CEO, nor of any other car manufacturer, nor would I look up who they are beforehand.
Granted the poster above is on Lemmy so I assume he knows more about musky boy than he would like.
I have a Ford too and couldn’t even tell you who the CEO of Ford is. Teslas are great daily drivers, I don’t care what the CEO does or says online.
his username is technoguyfication, either it’s a troll account or he is rolling with the technobro moniker
I’ve had this username since I was 11 years old, you don’t need to read that deeply into it haha
Everything I’ve heard says that Teslas have had huge reliability problems.
These days not really. I’m gonna get downvoted to oblivion obviously because this is Lemmy, but generally the cars are more than fine these days
Unless you forget to put them in car wash mode, or it happens to combust while you’re driving
🙄
for context, do you own a tesla and if yes, what other car have you owned?
Haven’t experienced any myself. I’m just a single data point, but my car has been nothing but reliable from day one. It’s a great daily driver.
Yet, you’re guilty in any situation since you bought a stupid “self-driving” car
Press the brake.
Woah woah woah. I’m 99% certain that’s not how cars work.
Press the drift button?
WRONG!!!
Hard braking may increase your insurance costs: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html
TL;DR: General Motors was selling customer driving data to LexisNexis which provided them to insurance companies. Hard braking also contributed to a higher risk factor.
In the mean time EU will require systems that automatically do emergency breaks and also different signaling for emergency breaks.
Nah bro if it’s the choice between raising insurance cost vs killing people + jail time for manslaughter + eating the guilt for the rest of my life, i’ll take the insurance.
Also wth america your capitalism and your priority is wack.
They were joking…?
I mean without getting into the privacy nightmare piece, frequent hard braking probably means you have a habit of following too closely, or not paying attention to potential hazards and covering a brake. So I don’t think the car manufacturer should supply it but also think it would be good to let the person with the habit know so that they can learn to be a safer driver?
I don’t like the spying aspect but it is unironically true that if you slam your brakes at every red light you are driving in a dangerous fashion. It’s more so about the pattern than a one off event though.
I’m sorry, but this is the vanilla trolley problem. Save all but one or avoid going to jail.
I think that’s the point. There’s a follow-up about killing the people tying others to the rails that fits.
Pedal. To the. Metal.
Turn to the right and brake. Why are they dancing in a narrow two-lane road anyway?
Reminds me of the Chinese issue: you run over someone, but they are likely not dead. Will you save their life but accept having to pay for whatever healthcare costs they have until they are recovered? Or will you run over them again, to make sure they die and your punishment will be a lot lighter?
The autopilot will turn off just before hitting them to make you liable anyway
Autopilot turns off before collision because physical damage can cause unpredictable effects that could cause another accident.
Let’s say you run into a wall, autopilot is broken, the car thinks it needs to go backwards. You now killed 3 more people.
I hate Elon Musk and Teslas are bad, but let’s not spread misinformation.
It seems reasonable for the autopilot to turn off just before collission, my point was more in the line of “You won’t get a penny from Elon”.
People who rely on Full Self Driving or whatever it’s called now, should be liable for letting a robot control their cars. And I also think that the company that develops and advertises said robot shouldn’t get off scot-free but it’s easier to blame the shooter rather than the gun manufacturer.
Yeah I agree. Both parties should be liable. Tesla for their misleading and dangerous marketing, drivers for believing in the marketing.
Autopilot turns off because the car doesn’t know what to do and the driver is supposed to take control of the situation. The autopilot isn’t autopilot, it’s driving assistance and you want it to turn off if it doesn’t know what it’s should do.
Autopilot also turns off on planes when things go wrong.
Sure, what meant though was that Tesla doesn’t have self driving cars the way they try to market it as. They are no different than what other car manufacturers got, they just use a more deceptive name.
It actually does. Teslas are great.
That’s only if you didn’t subscribe to the Ludicrous package.
Nah even then. Ain’t no way Tesla admits fault for anything
Until they go the way of PayPal, at least. Musk’s exit plan is Mars, remember?
PayPal sold for a billion bucks, the largest sale ever, at the time. Now it’s just integrated into eBay, which also isn’t going anywhere, so I have no idea what you’re implying. Did I miss something?
eBay and PayPal broke off 9 years ago btw.
Who sold PayPal?
Only do get actual slaves there lol
lol read Stranger in a Strange Land if you want an interesting Mars story
Can we please speed up his exit plan?
lol tesla bad
True, Tesla is bad. They have the transphobic racist idiot guiding them.
You will be liable either way. If you don’t do anything, you broke the terms of not being attentive enough.
I hope this isn’t law anywhere. You’re liable for your car no matter what. You have to take control if necessary
You’re liable for your car no matter what
Nope, it should be law that if an auto manufacturer sells an autonomous driving system that they advertise being able to use while driving distracted then they are liable if someone uses it as advertised and per instructions.
What you wrote is probably an auto manufacturer executive’s wet dream.
“You used our autonomous system to drive you home after drinking completely within advertised use and per manufacturer instructions and still got in an accident? Oh well tough shit the driver is liable for everything no matter what™️”
When autonomous cars are good enough to just drive people around then yeah the companies should be liable, but right now they’re not and drivers should be fully alert as if they are driving a regular vehicle.
- Then don’t call it autopilot
- What’s the point of automated steering if you have to remain 100 % attentive? To spare the driver the terrible burden of moving the wheel a couple mm either way? It is well studied and observed that people are less attentive when they’re not actively driving, which, FUCKING DUH.
Manufacturers provide this feature for the implicit purpose of enabling distracted driving. Yet they will not accept liability if someone drives distractedly.
Next in We Are Not Liable For How Consumers Use Our Product, Elon will replace the speedometer by Candy Crush with small text that says “pwease do not use while dwiving UwU”.
You choose to activate that mode, while I understand your sentiment and do agree, it’s not as cut and dry as ‘company liable’ or ‘driver liable’, both can be at fault. Taking blame off drivers entirely could make people even less attentive and the safety of lives is more important than some fines to a car manufacturer. The real problem is that mode being allowed to exist at all. It’s clearly not ready for use on public roads and companies are just abusing advertising to try and pin their ‘autopilot’ as something it isn’t.
Also note: Some manufacturers (Volvo & Mercedes, that I know of) have already said they will claim full responsibility for their cars in self-driving mode.
There are already fully autonomous taxis in some cities. Tesla is nowhere near fully autonomous, but others have accomplished it.
“Accomplished” is a strong word for something as complex as autonomous driving.
Fair, but when a company is given the authority to run fully autonomous taxis in cities that’s a huge accomplishment. Granted they are cities that don’t see things like snow storms and I’m sure there is a good reason for that.
What the fuck is the autonomous driving mode even for though? It seems like it’s just a dangerous toy…
It’s still in its infacy, eventually it will replace humans entirely and the roads will be much safer. Right now it’s just like improved cruise control and kind of pointless.
I’ll clarify: what is the actual purpose of giving customers access to this infantile technology? It doesn’t make following traffic laws easier like cruise control does, it doesn’t make drivers better at driving or safer behind the wheel, and it merely encourages distracted driving.
So why did they ship this product? Again, it just seems like a dangerous toy.
but right now they’re not and drivers should be fully alert as if they are driving a regular vehicle.
Which is what would be per manufacturer instructions, which still falls under my definition
Replies aren’t always in disagreement! I agree with what you are saying, just adding on my thoughts on information further up the thread too.
When autonomous cars are good enough to just drive people around
they become autonomous cars. It’s not autopilot if I’m liable, simple as that.
So I say it is law last time I’ve checked (which is a while back tbh), and you say “no, it should be law” in your opinion. You see it, right?
Autonomous systems aren’t that trustworthy yet and you shouldn’t drive drunk with them. Are they really advertised that way?
Some auto makers have said they will accept liability… https://www.thedrive.com/tech/455/volvo-accepting-full-liability-in-autonomous-car-crashes
I saw a headline about Mercedes offering an autopilot that doesn’t require the driver to monitor, so it’s going to be interesting to see how laws play out. The Waymo taxi service in Phoenix seems to occasionally run in with the law, and a remote service advisor has to field the call, advising the officer the company is responsible for the car’s behavior, not the passenger.
So in theory the manufacturer takes responsibility because they trust their software. This puts the oness on them and their insurance, thereby reducing your insurance considerably. In actuality your insurance doesn’t go down because insurance companies.
I’m not trying to be the grammar police, just thought you might like to know that it’s “onus”.
I’m and idiot. But I shall leave it for the sake of posterity. Thank you.
this is funny and all, but it doesn’t matter what you’re doing here, you’re technically liable for all of them so uh.
I’ll wait for a better version of this.
This reminds me of that Chinese law about being personally responsible for all medical debts of a person you run over—incentivizing killing the person, rather than injuring them.
I’ve seen this in comments a lot but never a source, do you happen to have one?
Only source seems to be this Slate article:
In respect to that specific Slate article, Snopes had some issues with it and labeled the story as “unproven”:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chinese-drivers-kill-pedestrians/
The Snopes article does a nice job of pointing out the Slate article’s issues.
You’re right about the Snopes article. It does do a decent job of pointing out that a lot of this reporting is rumor based.
This first anecdote (also highlighted by Snopes) is amusing
Double-hit cases" have been around for decades. I first heard of the “hit-to-kill” phenomenon in Taiwan in the mid-1990s when I was working there as an English teacher. A fellow teacher would drive us to classes. After one near-miss of a motorcyclist, he said, “If I hit someone, I’ll hit him again and make sure he’s dead.” Enjoying my shock, he explained that in Taiwan, if you cripple a man, you pay for the injured person’s care for a lifetime. But if you kill the person, you “only have to pay once, like a burial fee.” He insisted he was serious—and that this was common.
So is it Taiwan or the mainland with these wild laws?
Another false claim about China, it seems.
Thanks for the links, it’s much appreciated
Can always tell a hexbear crackhead from the comment alone. On the mark again.
stoopid tankie, getting high on sources
deleted by creator
The idea that a lack of proof refutes the idea is an argument in ignorance. Literally tankie ragebait.
So we should just believe any hearsay about China bad because China bad?
Fact that you’re calling it hearsay says plenty lmao. Go back to your Uyghur camp
That rumor is so stupid it doesn’t even begin to stack up. Paying medical bills sucks, but killing someone even unintentionally puts you at risk of jail time. Vanishingly few people are going to choose a decade or more of hard labor in jail over paying a debt.
The only thing this whole rumor proves is that people will believe the most irrational things about China as long as it makes Chinese people look bad.
That’s been revised…right?
Own Elon and cut back on carbon emissions? It’s a no brainer
Strange to assume that swerving will definitely kill one of them. What if you swerve off the road, or slam on the brakes? The reason the trolley problem works is that it’s on rails and you’re not operating it.
That’s because it’s a Tesla car, silly. It only allows for minimalization of victims down to a minimum of one. I’ve heard that newer models have a perdiction module, that will deploy a rear mounted gun and shot down any survivors in case of narrowly avoided car crash. The seat still does devour the driver if that happens though, for some legacy backwards compatibility reasons. As for the disembodied Voice that recites all your sins and threatens you to reveal them to the public should you NOT take the wheel and kill those people yourself, it’s apparently in spanish as well now. Such an age of wonders.
The Trolley problem is just a hypothetical situation with only 2 options.
It being on rails just ads flavour, it doesn’t matter. You can’t choose anything else.
It’s a meme
The premise of memes can be critiqued, just like anything else.
