You’re giving patsocs a lot of credit when their ‘current’ has not produced anything in the 5-6 years it’s been tried beyond making a few streamers rich and putting themselves against all actual Marxists (never a good sign). They have no actual plans to make America socialist, like they claim, because any formulated plan would expose that this is a dead-end that’s only good for grifting.
They had the “CPUSA 2036” slogan for a while, which was about infiltrating the CPUSA and winning the 2036 election, and they tried that, got found out and blacklisted, and now they pretend it was never about that and they’ve stopped talking about it.
You’re assuming they are trying novel techniques, but they’re just tailists. It’s been tried before, and it always ends with a Hitler in power.
The people they are trying to tail are not interested in being friends with China, stopping the genocide in Palestine, or being pro-labor. What they are is by and large the petite bourgeoisie, and to teach that segment ‘Marxism’, they need to water it down and purposely limit it. “MAGAcommunists”, who changed their name after they started hating the label ‘patriotic socialist’ which they picked for themselves (they also tried “Mecha tankies” for a while lol), are starting to say socialism is conservative (they don’t expand on what that means) and that marxism is “pro small business”.
If I “introduced” you to math by saying 2+2 can be equal to 5, and you didn’t have the knowledge to disprove it, and I then continued teaching you bad math, nobody would be saying “well at least he’s introducing people to math!”. No. I would be teaching bad math, and I would be a terrible teacher that should be stopped before I do more damage. So why, when people teach bad theory, do we let them do it because “at least they’re teaching people”? I’m not a monkey that reacts to the buzzwords, much to the dismay of patsocs. You have to actually give me a sound argument, and not just write “Based!” in the margin of a Lenin book for the instagram picture.
They’ve tried “reaching out” a couple times, their big plan was to send Haz to interview some MAGA protestors once or twice. He gave them softball questions like “do you think the establishment is working against the common worker?” and got ecstatic when they said yes. He might have been thinking about socialism, but I can guarantee you they were thinking about Trump. They were also small business owners and considered themselves workers, obviously. Obviously he couldn’t namedrop socialism to them or he would have got his ass beat, because for all their posturing and spitting, they have not yet reached out to any MAGA. They claim they did, but they did not. All they got is 14 year olds edgelords who will grow out of it, I assume, in a few years.
They are enemies of Marxism and Marxists and it’s time to proclaim it. Communists like to pass around Anarchism or Socialism from Stalin, where he says “Anarchists are the real enemies of marxists” (back in 1905 so before fascism), but then when it comes to patsocs we contort ourselves into shapes trying to justify their existence. We don’t have to work with them. They have to prove they have something of value to bring, and I don’t see that because they spend most of their time trying to convince real marxists that magacommunism totally works, and if you disagree, they start insulting and dogpiling you. You’re either with them or against them.
Like who else is actually saying we need to “win over” the maga? If there is civil war it’s gonna be communists and maybe a few others against the magas. The first thing the magas are gonna do is organize lynch mobs as soon as they get the go ahead. There was civil war in Russia, there was civil war in China, there was civil war in Vietnam, there was civil war in Korea, but these clowns think that in the heart of empire, in the number one imperial power in the world, they can avoid civil war if they wish for it hard enough.
I got bad news then, you’re gonna have to pick up a rifle and shoot the magas you want to win over if there is ever a revolution. Because I can assure you magacoms would sooner join them and abandon any pretense of being marxists than raise a rifle against them lol.
Who cares about their follower count, when they are simply unable to build anything – because that’s not the point of patsocism. The point is to get a few feds into positions of legitimacy. How do you think Hinkle got to 2 million followers in less than 5 years (actually less than 1 because he was boosted up there after October 7)? The official account of the state of ‘Israel’ quote tweeted him. Why would the glorified US military base in West Asia do that not once but twice, garnering him tons of new followers each time? Like when any real marxist starts getting too popular, it should raise red flags, not garner amazement. He has fed written all over him and has completely stopped talking about marxism, instead now stealing tweets and reposting them on his account. That’s his amount of praxis.
Midwestern Marx has always been patsoc, they’re just now dropping the mask because Laroucheism is finally paying off for them. First, Edward Ligger is wrong about Lenin on the Black Hundreds. Lenin was not saying to disrupt their meetings to recruit workers there, he was saying to fucking kill them. Yes, that’s what Lenin wrote black on white. Our guy was leading the revolution and civil war just a few years later and they’re trying to lionize him into a peace-loving, “reaching across the aisle” type of figure. What Lenin wrote at the beginning of The state and the revolution has come full circle and against him now.
Every time this brain-damaged wrestler opens his mouth he gets clowned on and I’m not sure how you can have been following what he’s been saying and start defending his position, while at the same time not having seen any of the criticism he gets, including right in the top comments of the linked tweet.
and it likely wouldn’t be relevant to non-white people who have national interests of their own to organize around
What do you think they’re gonna do to non-white people if they ever get into power?
Aside from MAGA communists generally seeming like transphobes, misogynists, and potentially racists, (something all the other electoral groups in the US also are),
Yes, which is why the answer to the US Question is decolonization. There will always remain transphobia, misogyny and racism in a settler-colonial state. But patsocs are not advocating for decolonization, they don’t even dare use the word. And the reason communism is such a shitshow in the US is exactly because communist parties did not want to grapple with this fact, that all communist parties will decolonize, that their prime directive is to put the Indigenous nations in power and not lead in their stead, and this goes all the way back to all the “working class stories” we’ve been told about the US, all the “good communist parties” there, all the “grassroots” movements, none of them advocated for decolonization because it would jeopardize their power and even livelihood. This is their contradiction, to admit to decol being necessary would be admitting to your party dissolving eventually. But regardless of the history of communism in the US, patsocs are not doing anything new. You look far enough into the CPUSA’s history (which is not that far, it’s around 100 years old) and you see proto-patsocs there as well.
You’re correct that we shouldn’t ignore patsocism. We should fight against it. I expect their movement will slowly dwindle though, but never fully go away. Laroucheism is not new (I mean, Larouche himself was active not that long ago) and Laroucheism is a fed op, so it’s not going away any time soon.
I replied to the other person with my main points if you’d be interested in replying there to those points!
Some things from this thread:
The people they are trying to tail are not interested in being friends with China, stopping the genocide in Palestine, or being pro-labor.
Why would they use these positions which most of the people they are targeting would immediately hate if they didn’t believe them? Why wouldn’t they just become like the Shapiros and Carlsons and Jones type grifters if they were really trying to just grift? Wouldn’t they make way more money and get way more clout if they didn’t actually inject these talking points into their rhetoric?
Is your premise that the feds are uplifting these guys so that people who would be radicalized towards communism get led astray? They seem to only appeal to people who would never be interested in communism so I don’t really know how that adds up. The only self identified leftists I see who are swayed by them seem to be people who agree that the left is further alienating a large portion of the US working class from socialism by using rhetoric, jargon, and aesthetics which they are pre-programmed to reject. So they couch their positions in US iconography to bypass that. Its not the strategy I would spend time organizing, or the group I would target in my organizing, but if they want to try, whats the problem? If we get a Hitler as you said, it won’t be because these people are the way it happened, it will be because it was an election year and we live in the US.
I’ve never had twitter and basically just heard about these people but have watched a couple YT videos featuring them and talking about them and then seen a couple threads here on lemmygrad about them in the last week or two. So I don’t have a lot of info or cemented biases on the matter. I did watch a recent video from just a few days ago with Hinkle giving a speech to a crowd using Lenin quotes and talking about Marxism so saying he has completely stopped talking about it doesn’t track.
As far as civil wars and decolonization go - you don’t really think if a civil war happens there will be any leftist group or de-colonial group that will stand a chance to take any power do you? Its gonna be the MAGA vs the Lib technocrats, there won’t be any decolonization going on, just a redrawing of colonial borders, like a (hopefully) less cartoonish Fallout: New Vegas landscape. The majority of Americans do not consider decolonization a viable option and while I am 100% behind the idea as someone who has been organizing in groups promoting it for many years, it doesn’t seem to be gaining any traction among the average Americans because it means they lose their luxuries and power gained by settler colonialism.
I appreciate your tone and style in response it makes dialogue feel accessible and not so polarizing as these spaces often do.
I’m trying to understand why people think these guys are both insignificant but also “the enemy” worth vehemently opposing. I admit I don’t know a lot about them, but with what I’ve seen I don’t see how they are going to cause any more harm or damage while I am also intrigued about if they might succeed in spreading an anti-imperialist sentiment within the Trump base that could influence his policy when he becomes president again. If so, I think that is a good thing and would be better than Trump on his own without that or any Democrat, and if they fail or just fully grift then nothing is different about the world.
Yeah tbh I think you’re sealioning. I sincerely can’t believe you’ve been organizing for 10 years but have only now heard of MWM, Hinkle, Infrared etc. while at the same time being familiar enough that you can quote from their latest videos. You also say you support decol but then show you don’t actually support decol because “it’s not popular” which is the textbook definition of tailism, and ultimately says you don’t actually support decol regardless of what you may think on the matter.
I’ve had my eye on you from your first comment in this thread but we always give people a chance to explain themselves first. The only reason it took this long to ban you is because I wanted to get more opinions, which I eventually did. So, you get a rule 5 ban: no patsocs.
You’re giving patsocs a lot of credit when their ‘current’ has not produced anything in the 5-6 years it’s been tried beyond making a few streamers rich and putting themselves against all actual Marxists (never a good sign). They have no actual plans to make America socialist, like they claim, because any formulated plan would expose that this is a dead-end that’s only good for grifting.
They had the “CPUSA 2036” slogan for a while, which was about infiltrating the CPUSA and winning the 2036 election, and they tried that, got found out and blacklisted, and now they pretend it was never about that and they’ve stopped talking about it.
You’re assuming they are trying novel techniques, but they’re just tailists. It’s been tried before, and it always ends with a Hitler in power.
The people they are trying to tail are not interested in being friends with China, stopping the genocide in Palestine, or being pro-labor. What they are is by and large the petite bourgeoisie, and to teach that segment ‘Marxism’, they need to water it down and purposely limit it. “MAGAcommunists”, who changed their name after they started hating the label ‘patriotic socialist’ which they picked for themselves (they also tried “Mecha tankies” for a while lol), are starting to say socialism is conservative (they don’t expand on what that means) and that marxism is “pro small business”.
If I “introduced” you to math by saying 2+2 can be equal to 5, and you didn’t have the knowledge to disprove it, and I then continued teaching you bad math, nobody would be saying “well at least he’s introducing people to math!”. No. I would be teaching bad math, and I would be a terrible teacher that should be stopped before I do more damage. So why, when people teach bad theory, do we let them do it because “at least they’re teaching people”? I’m not a monkey that reacts to the buzzwords, much to the dismay of patsocs. You have to actually give me a sound argument, and not just write “Based!” in the margin of a Lenin book for the instagram picture.
They’ve tried “reaching out” a couple times, their big plan was to send Haz to interview some MAGA protestors once or twice. He gave them softball questions like “do you think the establishment is working against the common worker?” and got ecstatic when they said yes. He might have been thinking about socialism, but I can guarantee you they were thinking about Trump. They were also small business owners and considered themselves workers, obviously. Obviously he couldn’t namedrop socialism to them or he would have got his ass beat, because for all their posturing and spitting, they have not yet reached out to any MAGA. They claim they did, but they did not. All they got is 14 year olds edgelords who will grow out of it, I assume, in a few years.
They are enemies of Marxism and Marxists and it’s time to proclaim it. Communists like to pass around Anarchism or Socialism from Stalin, where he says “Anarchists are the real enemies of marxists” (back in 1905 so before fascism), but then when it comes to patsocs we contort ourselves into shapes trying to justify their existence. We don’t have to work with them. They have to prove they have something of value to bring, and I don’t see that because they spend most of their time trying to convince real marxists that magacommunism totally works, and if you disagree, they start insulting and dogpiling you. You’re either with them or against them.
Like who else is actually saying we need to “win over” the maga? If there is civil war it’s gonna be communists and maybe a few others against the magas. The first thing the magas are gonna do is organize lynch mobs as soon as they get the go ahead. There was civil war in Russia, there was civil war in China, there was civil war in Vietnam, there was civil war in Korea, but these clowns think that in the heart of empire, in the number one imperial power in the world, they can avoid civil war if they wish for it hard enough.
I got bad news then, you’re gonna have to pick up a rifle and shoot the magas you want to win over if there is ever a revolution. Because I can assure you magacoms would sooner join them and abandon any pretense of being marxists than raise a rifle against them lol.
Who cares about their follower count, when they are simply unable to build anything – because that’s not the point of patsocism. The point is to get a few feds into positions of legitimacy. How do you think Hinkle got to 2 million followers in less than 5 years (actually less than 1 because he was boosted up there after October 7)? The official account of the state of ‘Israel’ quote tweeted him. Why would the glorified US military base in West Asia do that not once but twice, garnering him tons of new followers each time? Like when any real marxist starts getting too popular, it should raise red flags, not garner amazement. He has fed written all over him and has completely stopped talking about marxism, instead now stealing tweets and reposting them on his account. That’s his amount of praxis.
Midwestern Marx has always been patsoc, they’re just now dropping the mask because Laroucheism is finally paying off for them. First, Edward Ligger is wrong about Lenin on the Black Hundreds. Lenin was not saying to disrupt their meetings to recruit workers there, he was saying to fucking kill them. Yes, that’s what Lenin wrote black on white. Our guy was leading the revolution and civil war just a few years later and they’re trying to lionize him into a peace-loving, “reaching across the aisle” type of figure. What Lenin wrote at the beginning of The state and the revolution has come full circle and against him now.
Every time this brain-damaged wrestler opens his mouth he gets clowned on and I’m not sure how you can have been following what he’s been saying and start defending his position, while at the same time not having seen any of the criticism he gets, including right in the top comments of the linked tweet.
What do you think they’re gonna do to non-white people if they ever get into power?
Yes, which is why the answer to the US Question is decolonization. There will always remain transphobia, misogyny and racism in a settler-colonial state. But patsocs are not advocating for decolonization, they don’t even dare use the word. And the reason communism is such a shitshow in the US is exactly because communist parties did not want to grapple with this fact, that all communist parties will decolonize, that their prime directive is to put the Indigenous nations in power and not lead in their stead, and this goes all the way back to all the “working class stories” we’ve been told about the US, all the “good communist parties” there, all the “grassroots” movements, none of them advocated for decolonization because it would jeopardize their power and even livelihood. This is their contradiction, to admit to decol being necessary would be admitting to your party dissolving eventually. But regardless of the history of communism in the US, patsocs are not doing anything new. You look far enough into the CPUSA’s history (which is not that far, it’s around 100 years old) and you see proto-patsocs there as well.
You’re correct that we shouldn’t ignore patsocism. We should fight against it. I expect their movement will slowly dwindle though, but never fully go away. Laroucheism is not new (I mean, Larouche himself was active not that long ago) and Laroucheism is a fed op, so it’s not going away any time soon.
I replied to the other person with my main points if you’d be interested in replying there to those points!
Some things from this thread:
Why would they use these positions which most of the people they are targeting would immediately hate if they didn’t believe them? Why wouldn’t they just become like the Shapiros and Carlsons and Jones type grifters if they were really trying to just grift? Wouldn’t they make way more money and get way more clout if they didn’t actually inject these talking points into their rhetoric?
Is your premise that the feds are uplifting these guys so that people who would be radicalized towards communism get led astray? They seem to only appeal to people who would never be interested in communism so I don’t really know how that adds up. The only self identified leftists I see who are swayed by them seem to be people who agree that the left is further alienating a large portion of the US working class from socialism by using rhetoric, jargon, and aesthetics which they are pre-programmed to reject. So they couch their positions in US iconography to bypass that. Its not the strategy I would spend time organizing, or the group I would target in my organizing, but if they want to try, whats the problem? If we get a Hitler as you said, it won’t be because these people are the way it happened, it will be because it was an election year and we live in the US.
I’ve never had twitter and basically just heard about these people but have watched a couple YT videos featuring them and talking about them and then seen a couple threads here on lemmygrad about them in the last week or two. So I don’t have a lot of info or cemented biases on the matter. I did watch a recent video from just a few days ago with Hinkle giving a speech to a crowd using Lenin quotes and talking about Marxism so saying he has completely stopped talking about it doesn’t track.
As far as civil wars and decolonization go - you don’t really think if a civil war happens there will be any leftist group or de-colonial group that will stand a chance to take any power do you? Its gonna be the MAGA vs the Lib technocrats, there won’t be any decolonization going on, just a redrawing of colonial borders, like a (hopefully) less cartoonish Fallout: New Vegas landscape. The majority of Americans do not consider decolonization a viable option and while I am 100% behind the idea as someone who has been organizing in groups promoting it for many years, it doesn’t seem to be gaining any traction among the average Americans because it means they lose their luxuries and power gained by settler colonialism.
I appreciate your tone and style in response it makes dialogue feel accessible and not so polarizing as these spaces often do. I’m trying to understand why people think these guys are both insignificant but also “the enemy” worth vehemently opposing. I admit I don’t know a lot about them, but with what I’ve seen I don’t see how they are going to cause any more harm or damage while I am also intrigued about if they might succeed in spreading an anti-imperialist sentiment within the Trump base that could influence his policy when he becomes president again. If so, I think that is a good thing and would be better than Trump on his own without that or any Democrat, and if they fail or just fully grift then nothing is different about the world.
Yeah tbh I think you’re sealioning. I sincerely can’t believe you’ve been organizing for 10 years but have only now heard of MWM, Hinkle, Infrared etc. while at the same time being familiar enough that you can quote from their latest videos. You also say you support decol but then show you don’t actually support decol because “it’s not popular” which is the textbook definition of tailism, and ultimately says you don’t actually support decol regardless of what you may think on the matter.
I’ve had my eye on you from your first comment in this thread but we always give people a chance to explain themselves first. The only reason it took this long to ban you is because I wanted to get more opinions, which I eventually did. So, you get a rule 5 ban: no patsocs.