The only Russian who’s really earned the hatred is Putin, I’m not surprised his sycophants are feeling pressured.
Hexbear and .ml seem equally as dismayed, constantly lashing out with violent rhetoric.
That’s like saying only Hitler was bad in Nazi Germany. And before the whole “NoT EvErY RuSsIaN” argument comes up: silence is compliance! The Russians who are truly against what their country is doing already left in 2022, before the mobilization. Everyone else who is not actively fighting their regime is complicit.
There’s a middle point between “the dictator is the only bad guy” and “literally every person on a country the size of a continent is the bad guy”
Yes, see my last sentence.
You can’t expect every single person that didn’t left Russia to want ukrainians to be murdered and tortured. People there are poor, their entire life is there, their country makes everything to prevent them from escaping and other countries are wary in their regard. You can’t make it that simple
Yes, I very much can, because I know what it means if we are compliant with genocidal war mongering terror regimes and where that leads to.
being physically or economically unable to leave a country does not equal supporting putins russia, and how do all the minorities in russia that want their own independence tie into this? should they also leave what they see as a different country because on paper its part of russia? should all the remaining ukrainians leave ukraine were it to be fully occupied and used as a base to attack another country? you act as if russia isnt a truly large country that can be generalized to such extreme extents while theres enormous differences and disagreements within european russia alone
putins russia is a genocidal regime and no1 disagrees with that, but problems of raging alcholism and learned hopelessness among the regular people aside it is not as simple a matter as you boil it down to. everyone have their own fights and many people simply do not have the courage or ability to essentially fight a country but that does not make them worse than others
Patently false. There are many, many who earned their infamy. All those involved in the kidnapping of children, the rapists, those firing on civilians, and all the leadership encouraging all these reprehensible acts to name a few.
@YeetPics @LaFinlandia Disagree totally. He’s the #1 cause, yes, but he is not the only one. He could not do this without help, and he’s had plenty. He’s enlisted people from Bulgaria, Turkey, and other countries who specialize in atrocities and torture. He’s allowed violent criminals out of prisons to go to war. He has help. They need to pay for their crimes, too. #WarCrimes #PutinWarCriminal #RussiaUkraineWar #RussianInvasion
Is it equally as valid to hate Chinese people because of the atrocities that occurred under Xi?
Something tells me that hating an ethnic group because their government leadership feeds them half truths is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Then again half the political discussions I’ve seen on Lemmy end with calling to nuke entire hemispheres of the planet, maybe this level of nuance doesn’t fit here lmao.
but we never do aggressive things
Holy snapping duckshit you’re so far removed from reality that you’re in your own separate omniverse and that’s absolutely impossible
Eh… I mean, she’s talking about Russians, not Russia. Like, how individuals act. I think that there’s probably a case that judging national character based on country policy is kinda frustrating. You go back a couple hundred years, and it was pretty common for Empire A to go take over nearby Country B if it could. I think most people had a national leader somewhere back in time who probably did some fairly unpleasant stuff.
Like, Putin’s running Russia. And Putin’s Russian. And Putin affects a lot of Russians, and has a lot of ability to direct the actions of a lot of Russians. But Putin also isn’t what it means to be Russian.
Like, say you’re German, and Hitler is in power, right? I mean, I’m not saying that there weren’t Germans who didn’t do some pretty unpleasant stuff during that period. Or that people weren’t pretty pissed at Germans at that point. But, like…Hitler also isn’t what it means to be German.
Here are a bunch of Russians that came over to the US or their kids.
Isaac Asimov, Michael Bay, Bernie Sanders. I think that most people aren’t gonna say “Ah, Russia is doing X, so they are bad people”. She didn’t make the call to attack Ukraine. She’s not killing people in Ukraine. She’s not even in Russia…in fact, it sounds like she’s in Mexico because she’s trying to leave Russia, which I imagine isn’t all that easy. Like, she’s upset because she’s being judged on her nationality. I mean, I get that.
Taking out anger at Putin on her doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
If Germany had a nazi problem for a full century and different political powers, damn right that would represent Germans
@tal @don True, but there is also the argument (somewhat theoretical) that, if these people had stayed where they were, they might have changed the course of history. Maybe. Or not. We might also have completely lost them and their contributions to the world. Who’s to say? And, no, leaving Russia is not easy right now. She’s risking not just her life, but that of family left behind. It’s brutal to live in Russia now.
Your Hitler example is perfect IMO. There were many beyond Hitler in Germany that deserved the hatred directed at them whether directly through horrific acts or indirectly due to their apathy or ignorance. The civilians in the towns directly adjacent to liberated concentration camps were forced by allied forces to aid in the cleanup and recovery of the camps and their victims. Many of these ‘innocent Germans’ expressed outrage at their ‘undeserved’ treatment like as seen in this video. They didn’t deserve sympathy either.
At a certain point ‘I am just an innocent wittle civilian who has done nothing wrong’ is a cop-out. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good [people] should do nothing” -Burke.
To be clear this isn’t to justify warcrimes on civilians. It is merely to say her crocodile tears fall on deaf ears.
All those Hitler comparisons hit very close, as I’m German, born long after the war. It was. my grandparent generation that allowed things to happen.
I have utmost respect for people who speak out against atrocities their country does, but in sucj a case - Hitler or Putin - being silent is agreeing.
The woman in this video just whines how everyone treats her badly. If she had said one time, she understands because of what her country does - and then say, how it makes her life bad, I could somehow sympathize. This way - I can not.
I have a Russian coworker who started business meetings with a minute of silence for the Ukrainian victims during the full invasion. That is something I can respect.
I never got any details, but I have reason to believe my own grandfather arranged himself with the Nazis, some say he was a party member. Others say, he and my grandma hid someone from them. Nevertheless he managed to own a soft drink factory (and quickly got a Coca Cola contract after the war)
I’m fucking fed up with people who arrange themselves with dictators and are just opportunists. As this woman obviously is.
Fun fact - Hitler was elected.
There’s potential evil in everyone, born everywhere. It’s hard for most people to swallow, but it’s true.
Hitler wasn’t really elected. His party never once had a majority vote. He got 30 ish percent iirc.
He was nominated as Chancellor as a cop out to try and appease the masses which he had stirred up.
And then used the Reichstag fire to invoke emergency powers and take full control
Yes, obviously it went quickly downhill from there (as per the plan).
It was closer to 40, but yes, he never won a majority nation-wide. Minority governments are a thing though, and he got the job democratically. It’s accurate to say he was elected.
Putin was elected too.
…
Bwahahahah! Sorry, almost made it through with a straight face.
He actually never had a free and fair election, as far as I know. Yeltsin won fair and square the first time around, but rigged his second election and then appointed Putin.
When the people do not know what their government is doing they cannot understand why others hate them. Nationality can be a badge of honor and a hood over your eyes.
The Chinese government are enabling and committing horrors of their own. Yet everyone would be crying racism if there was general hatred of Chinese people
Tepid take: there’s probably more racism against Chinese people in America than Russians.
Exactly! See how Americans behave, exactly like this girl.
You won’t find many places on the internet where Americans are as critical of America as on Lemmy.
Many of us vote and write Congress too.
There are dozens of us!!!
Never a truer word spoken
“Y’all hade us cuz y’aint us”
No, that would be your terrorist government who has destabilised the entire planet to line their own greedy evil pockets
About 20 years ago I read this:
Americans say, “I don’t know why people hate us”, and that is why people hate Americans.
Classic white monkey post
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I don’t hate Russians. I’m not fond of Russia though.
I watched it a few times and I think I broke the code. She’s talking like the issue is that she’s suffering all this anti-Russian-person racism everywhere she goes, but it’s pretty unlikely that anything like that is happening. But something made her upset.
I think she wants to come into the US, and US immigration doesn’t want her to, and she identifies that as “hatred” for the Russians because she’s supposed to be able to do whatever she wants because she’s Russian, and not have to do some kind of dodge through Mexico and not like these Mexicans and Brazilians that she mentions. She feels humiliated that she has to ask permission, and maybe the answer will be no fuck off get lost.
Honestly, I will be the last person to say that US immigration is always decent and fair. But someone not being nice to you or treating you special is not the same as them hating you. If you want to say US immigration is being a pain in the ass and it’s unfair that it’s gonna fuck up your life, then fine. But saying you need to be exempt from it because you’re Russian specifically, makes you into a special specific kind of person.
Granted last time I crossed the border was in 2000, but I think your right and this is basic Karen behavior. She probably expected to cross without even identifying herself. I was allowed to cross with one question, but as I said that was awhile ago.
Hm, I interpreted it a little differently – that she was talking about coming into the US to stay and live here (“we lived in Brazil for half a year” “we need to get to the US” “I want a calmer environment”), and that’s a whooole different story.
This is pure guesswork, but it sounds like maybe she knew it would be a problem so she asked the immigration guy to just write her down as British to solve the problem, and he wasn’t friendly about that suggestion and long story short no she can’t come in the country, stay in Mexico, good luck, next in line please. And she interpreted it within this sort of framework appropriate to traveling around in places where she was used to, like a more smekalka system and being able to travel around like she wanted, and thought he was just being a dick about it and about the way he dealt with her in general, because of some personal racism towards her or something.
That would actually be a lot more charitable interpretation towards her than what I originally said “I’m Russian so I should get to do what I want.” It might just be a genuine cultural thing that she ran into that she really doesn’t understand. IDK though; I mean the truth is I’m purely just guessing.
But overall, I definitely think she was trying to come into the US to stay and live here, and having trouble with it (because it’s real real difficult for anyone from almost any country, generally speaking), and that’s why she’s so upset.
I think this is one of the few entry points for other Russians to start a conversation and maybe question your propaganda based selfimage
If more Americans visited Europe they’d understand
What a puzzling predickamint
Russains here hate Russians
NGL that was funny af.
That’s probably because your president is committing mass genocide of Ukrainians by abducting 700,000 of their children to be raised as Russians.
Do you think a random Russian citizen who is trying to leave Russia has anything to do with this?
Many of the people trying to leave Russia are against the war. It is idiotic to shame civilians who have little to no power to stop the actions of their oligarch run government.
Do you think a random Russian citizen who is trying to leave Russia has anything to do with this?
No but that’s not a defence for her entitlement. Did she say “look,I totally despise what Russia ia doing in Ukrainians and how its undermining other countires and I don’t supoort that”… No, not once did she say that… Fuck her. I’ll save my empathy for the folks slaughtered in Bucha.
I completely agree. Not all people are as open minded. I know an Israeli-American with dual citizenship that protested Netanyahu at NYU. People are absolutely not defined by their government. Russian elections are clearly rigged, so it’s even less likely she’s in favor of Putin. I wouldn’t criticize her unless she personally spoke in support of his actions. Unfortunately, I know enough people to be aware that it’s just not how everyone operates.
Her statements in the video suggest otherwise:
“[Russians] have a strong nationality”, which to me means they identify with their country and consequently its government. This statement alone says she should be emotionally responsible for her government’s actions as it indirectly or tacitly supports them.
“We are not an aggressive people”. False. Your nation is currently waging one of a series of aggressive wars in the region of late and there are numerous Russian videos that show how common vehicular accidents have everyone involved (and more) exiting their vehicles armed with melee weapons (crowbars, bats, etc…). Not an aggressive people? Relative to what, the Mongol Horde?
Members of hostile Nations have a burden of proof to show they are willing to play ball with other civilizations. The very fact she’s crying about the unfair treatment instead of asking ‘why all the hate’ and trying to dispel everyone’s very reasonable concerns is another strike against.
If she actually sat down and learned what her country was doing to innocent Ukrainians, and publicly denounced their actions she would have my sympathy. Until then she is a citizen of Orkistan, raised to hate the West and believe her governments lies since birth and cannot be trusted.
I know they’re subject to censorship, misinformation, and propaganda at home, but the Russian people still widely support the violent invasion and illegal war on Ukraine. That’s why the world doesn’t hold a positive view of Russians.
Regardless, this person was simply answering the question and not personally blaming a single Russian immigrant, so why are you shooting the messenger?
the Russian people still widely support the violent invasion and illegal war on Ukraine
How about the person in the video? Did you ask her? She makes no comment on her perspective of the war in the video.
So instead, without any knowledge of her personal views, bigoted people say she deserves to be hated simply because she is Russian, and everyone knows that all Russians love the war and want to eat children.
itt: a bunch of people spoiled by the fortune of not meeting enough actual Russians. They are overwhelmingly supportive of the war as it is fully aligned with the nation’s imperialistic identity, one that existed long before Putin was even born. Russia has amazing, brilliant, heroic opposition activists which are a slim minority, I’ve been told less than 1%. The rest are mostly like this woman (or worse)
I work with several, you are just a bigot.
I have dozens of Russian friends too, they explained all these things to me, especially since after the war many had to cut off almost everyone starting from family (I mean most of them had already cut off parents or at least a father since they typically beat the shit out of children) to classmates to other acquaintance. They were raised in Russia (those raised in western countries have a totally different background and are less severely impacted culturally) and were adults before Putin had absolute power. They say he just built on top of the identity of violence and imperialism. The Russian philosophers and political scientists they read and watch explain this. Are they bigots too?
People are individuals who are more than the country and government they are from. If you believe that 99% of a country is the same, you are a bigot.
I never claimed I believe that though, what I explain in my comments is vastly different from what you are attempting to pin on me. But you seem to desperately want to name call someone so whatever.
You said that people had “the fortune” of not meeting enough Russians and that less than one percent were in opposition. Perhaps you’re are just sloppy with your language, but it sounds like you’re just rocking the “one of the good ones” argument, so whatever.
You speak as if you believe Russia has freedom of press and right to openly protest. The fact is that the Russian state controls most of the public discourse, and any opposition is crushed. And you would place the blame on the victims of this regime?
EDIT: You seem like the type to believe Putin fairly won the election with 88% of the vote.
There are issues that Russia has right now, and then there is a national identity that they have had for decades and centuries. You seem to not be educated about the latter part. The misinformation is effective and bloodshed in Ukraine is supported because the content and aim resonates with the population. Putin did not have to convince anyone there that Ukrainians (and other neighbor countries) don’t have the right to exist as an independent nation. Even the most popular opposition leader Navalnyi had some horrifying imperialistic quotes, he fully supported the war in Georgia, the thing he was opposing to was corruption, not occupation. And knowing these important details is crucial for understanding just how much of the responsibility for the war falls on the nation and not just Putin.
Putin did not have to convince anyone there that Ukrainians (and other neighbor countries) don’t have the right to exist as an independent nation.
This is absolutely not true. Many Russians have relatives in the countries which were formerly part of the Soviet Union. There have been many protests within Russia against the war, which were usually met with violent suppression. Many in opposition of the war fled if they were able to.
But I guess Russians just really want to fight against their foreign relatives, simply because they themselves are Russian.
there is a national identity that they have had for decades and centuries
Yeah, there was this one guy who was in power for like 24 years who was a part of the intelligence community before he became a politician. Before he came to power, the entire world wanted the nation gone (and still do). Crazy how having every western government hate you could be used to create a national identity.
for understanding just how much of the responsibility for the war falls on the nation and not just Putin.
If the Russian people are responsible, I guess we should start bombing Russian cities then. That sounds reasonable.
yeah the end of the comment makes it clear that you’re malicious. What you say is utterly immoral and pinning that statement to me is disgusting.
For someone else who does not see why the whole response is answering to claims they themselves made it up (and try to create an illusion that those were my arguments) I am arguing that a random person who clearly displays typical Russian values should not be given a kilometer wide benefit of the doubt. And ignorant people here should stop going out on a limb to keep defending “innocent Russian civilians” and insisting that it’s only Putin that is the problem. Because that claim is factually false and ignorant of Russian civil culture and widespread imperialistic values. I was only explaining a context about Russian civilians that is necessary to keep in mind when being confused by someone like this lady.
I have said before and I will elaborate that I completely admire Russian opposition and would literally never achieve fraction of their courage but despite being many, in a population of hundreds of millions, fraction wise they’re nowhere near being a major portion. I never said every single Russian supports the war, and you trying to push that I did to justify dragging in an unrelated argument about protests is another openly malicious move. It is exhausting to argue when the other person twists your words, whether due to malice or not having skills to analyze statements.
She says:
I can’t stand it anymore because our real nationality is strong
Not sure what to make of this. We only have a video of an upset girl. Is she being treated unfairly? Who the fuck knows. All I know is that it plays perfectly into the Kremlin’s propaganda: We are the good guys and the world hates us for no good reason.
I don’t think Kremlin propaganda involves runaways seeking life elsewhere. Particularly their young women. That’s a really bad look for Russia.
Kremlin propaganda constantly involves polishing a turd until it shines. They’re going to have that ‘bad look’ one way or another, how do they twist it to make it work for them.
Turds are all they ever have, and they shine them well.
Actually, it does. It says that the Russian people have nowhere to go. Their only option is to band together (behind Putin).
Edit: Oh, btw. I’m not saying that this video is definitely part of a propaganda campaign. She could also be a victim of propaganda.
The claim is that she is a civilian, not a soldier. The video in no way suggests that soldiers
are the good guys and the world hates us for no good reason.
Disliking the actions of a government is very different from disliking an entire people based on nationality.
Your line of reasoning is very hard to follow. You are alternating between soldiers/civilians and people/individuals. You are arguing against a point I never made. You are not engaging with my concerns. So let me state this again. The video is highly emotional, completely one-sided. Contains no concrete information. And fits perfectly into the Kremlin’s propaganda. I wonder if all these Mexicans still hate her after she tells them that she disagrees with Putin and his war.
Do you think Westerners should hate the Russian people (civilians) because Putin is waging war?
If you say no, then you are in agreement with the person in the video, and by your own logic, have fallen for “Kremlin Propaganda”.
Russias “nationality” has boiled quite down to hail putin so there’s that.
There is no “good old russia” any more.
The killings / rape / torture is not just the president’s deeds.
It’s also sending swarms of kgb assets into western countries to fuck with, media, elections, sabotage etc. There should be a MUCH higher barrier of entry for Russians
