I’ve been looking for a new job as a software developer. The huge majority of job listings I see in my area are hybrid or remote. I just had an introductory phone call with Vizio (which didn’t specify the location type in the job listing). The recruiter told me that the job was fully on-site, which I told her was a deal breaker for me.
It makes me wonder how many other people back out after hearing that the job is on-site. And it makes me wonder why this wasn’t specified in the job description. I assume most people only want hybrid or remote jobs these days, right?
Anyways I was just wondering how many of you guys apply for on-site IT jobs? Hybrid is so much better, I don’t know why people would apply for on-site jobs unless they have no other options.
Keep this in mind, some places raises will barely cover inflation.
Now factor in gas and, most importantly, time spent commuting.
All that on top of effectiveness in working with social interruptions, trips to the coffee machine, bathroom breaks, lunch, etc.
Any of these businesses that are pushing for on-site are locked into costs from renting space - guarantee it. I get wanting to do the occasional face showing or in person meetings, but they should be concise and few in number - if they’re an efficient shop. Plenty of new blood that get the value of hybrid/remote work.
People want to be paid. Period. Anyone who tells you they won’t take a job because it’s not remote is a liar. Either that or they are privately wealthy and can afford to not work until their unicorn job appears.
lol ok boomer
When I was looking for a new job a couple years ago I turned down a lot of on-site and hybrid job for the sole reason that they weren’t fully remote. Some of the jobs actually interested me and I would have loved to take at the time. And I can assure you I am far from wealthy.
Working from home I get to see my wife during the day, play with my son whenever I want, make my own lunch in my kitchen, water my garden during the day, work outside if I want to.
The peace of mind that it brings me is worth $400k. That’s the minimum I would take to go into the office no more than 30 minutes away once a week at most.
I know that’s unrealistic but so is making employees go into the office for something they’re fully capable of doing at home.
You are just a liar bud. If nothing else you are lying to yourself.
If you were out of work and were offered an office position you would take it. The fact that you have a family makes it even more certain.
Don’t misunderstand my comment. I never said you have to like the job or even keep it. If you were out of work you would accept the position until you found a better offer. You don’t stay jobless when you have no money.
Obviously when you have a job you would pass on a job that doesn’t meet your expectations, that’s common sense. My comment was meant more towards being on the hunt while unemployed. Even still if the money was right I guarantee you would take an office job. Your wife wouldn’t let you turn it down. Money talks and people that want to pretend they are above it are lying to themselves.
If I wan unemployed and had no savings and no other job offers, of course I would take whatever job I could get. I hear the market is shit right now but still, it was never that hard to find a remote job if you’re qualified at least as a software dev.
Also my wife would let me turn down whatever job if it didn’t feel right as long as we’re covered. I turned down a job for ~60% more pay that would’ve required 2-3 days in the office about 40 minutes away for my current job that’s fully remote and let’s me make my own hours. I spent a couple nights working on my couch watching movies and working last week so I could take Friday off with full pay and go to a water park.
You cannot replace that freedom and extra time.
Although there are circumstances that could make me consider going into an office, they would have to be dier.
Full remote all the way.
Demand that in your contracts so you have flexibility. Then it’s a choice not an obligation to come to the office.
I would any day. I need my work life and home life to be separate or I go nuts.
Web marketer here. If it says hybrid or on site, it’s an automatic no for me. Nobody is taking me away from watching my son grow up.
I work with a few who prefer the office over work from home. I think they need a way to escape the house/wife/kids and the office is the only quiet place they have to work.
I work with a few who prefer the office over work from home.
It does allow for a more clean break between work and non-work mindset.
I find it helps maintain a more healthy work-life balance.
Plus, I work on hardware, so it’s not like I can do that remotely most of the time anyway.
I dont know if I agree with the work life balance.
Shower, groom, dress and commute starting at 6.30am, work 8.30–5.30 and commute to 6.30/7
or work 8.45-5.15ish and maybe spend an extra hour or two coupla times a week?
Huge difference.
My team moved to fully remote a month ago. I’m loving it so far.
Getting to see my little girl throughout my day makes me feel like I’m not missing out on watching her grow up.
I think I may be the only person on the face of the earth with no preference on this. My commute is immaterial, the office about 2k away, working from home is kind of a drag but I don’t have to get dressed and can keep the household going (which is part of why it’s a drag) online meetings suck even more than in person meetings, otherwise fine to work remotely. So when we were working from home, I was fine with it, then hybrid I thought would be the worst of all, no, it was fine. Now they say come in at least 3 days, I am going to put away the home workstation and just work at the office, reclaim the space at home, that’s fine too. It’s pretty much the same job either way.
I enjoy office work more than wfh because I genuinely like the people I work with and I think we riff off each other way better in person
I have only ever worked on-site jobs, so I am very used to it. The main plus for me is interacting with my co-workers. You run into the occasional jerk or someone having a bad day, but usually it is a great way to learn new things and gain different perspectives.
I would rather not be employed. I hated everything about my in-office jobs. The clothes, the pointless small talk, the “quick sidebars” that end up being longer than a meeting but could’ve just been a text conversation. The only thing I miss was lunchtime banter and finding fellow nerds to infodump with.
You’re talking specifically about software based IT jobs.
Those of us who deal with the hardware have alwaus been and will always be on-site and hands on.
Software developer here, WFH since March 2020, I don’t want to go back to office. If I would apply for a new job, my first question would be “is this 99% remote?” because I don’t mind once a month going there from like 10 to 2 to avoid trafic jam.
From what I’ve heard, most people that are for in office work like having the separation between work and home.
That being said, I think most folks want remote work or at least remote hybrid. It just makes more sense especially for me. I live far from my office (140 mile drive roundtrip), and working 3 days a week from home has been a god send.
My brain definitely focuses better with environmental cues. I mean, I can work just about anywhere, but if I’m not in the mood, then having the environmental cues displaces alternatives. Subjectively, I feel more productive at work. Never had a really bad commute, so I was never motivated to try to set up a ‘work-only’ space at home, but I’d only do a 70 mile one-way drive for very special occasions.
most people that are for in office work like having the separation between work and home.
My apartment offers wework-style glass cube space, as well as (totally unused) conference space on the 30th floor. Big conference TV, kitchenette, global supra high-back seating (good-not-amazing) and panoramic river views.
I did notice that the only people not opting for WFH/hybrid at my last job were all the married-with-kids types who hated being around their family and used work as an escape. It was really sad to see lol
There’s also a huge value to people working in the same space.
Random conversations solve a lot of problems.
And I’m someone that finds being in an office around people constantly to be exhausting. I just recognize the value.
Random conversations solve a lot of problems.
Trends indicate no. The odds of that vs the costs of the distractions - because Mike, I swear to god, you keep clicking that pen and I’m gonna find a new home for it - don’t make it a winning choice.
In 2002 we solved this with an open skype call where everyone was muted. Convos were easy to start (alt-space to unmute and start talking), which created some distraction but not like Larry and his goddamned sad cowboy music.
There’s also a huge value to people working in the same space.
Random conversations solve a lot of problems.
If only we had decent VR headsets that were comfortable to wear all day I wouldn’t mind replicating that in a “virtual office”
Unfortunately, even Apple wasn’t able to solve the comfortability problem.
You can replicate that remotely. I’ve had days where 2-3 people joined a call to share something and then kept that call in the background for hours, chatting about random things while working.
I can chat with someone for hours on end, but I also like using my own toilet, and having access to a tea, snack, etc.
For me, what blocks having random conversations is having 1-3 hours of status updates daily - it doesn’t leave much leftover to do the work especially when my firm declaration that it was going to take twice as long as someone else estimated (and then sure enough it did, at minimum, and maybe taking 10x) is ignored. That would block conversations regardless?
Anyway, the conversations are the content, but them being present physically is only the medium, so WFH does not need to block them, and if anything can help facilitate them e.g. working one in-between other meetings whereas the time taken to physically walk over would have been prohibitive.
There’s a psychological stress with work that can take some time to slough off.
Some people don’t want to log out of work and be grumpy or distracted during family time.
That being said having a process or system as a habit to denote work/home is a good alternative.
A 10 minute walk, a change of clothes, or some song you play, anything that creates a mental delineation. So the annoyance from that way too long meeting asking why something isn’t done (4 hours a day giving out status updates isn’t helping) doesn’t come out on the family.
That’s understandable but like… you could go to a coffee shop or literally rent office space nearby to where you live - it doesn’t have to be all one way or the other. Anyway, if they truly do enjoy being surrounded by people then I don’t want to knock their totally valid preferences, just to say that there are other ways.
Not wanting to work in a crowded home has nothing to do with disliking your family. Kids are loud. They run around the house. They watch TV with the volume set too high. They have excited calls with their friends. Many home builders skimp on noise insulation for interior walls.
From my open office experience, it is often not better with colleagues. A lot of noise, distractions, useless conversations. That is not as bad as kids, but this is why I always dreamt to WFH. I will always be grateful to the person who under cooked that bat in 2019.
My ask is 4x salary for in office.
It’s usually met with “Well, that’s not going to happen…”
To which I reply “I know, right?”
“how bout that” lol
Instead, the people offering the largest salaries are mostly remote-only.
People that value your work value your work, I guess.
How to win against the dead-sea effect, I guess.
My ask is
You mean ‘request’, right? You need to leave the used-car-salesbro jargon at the lot, man.
But I run a surcharge as well, and it’s prohibitive for some. It’s about 40% more for the first day in the office, and 20% more for each day-per-week after that, to 120% surcharge at most. I put the interview answers in the spreadsheet, and when they ask about Salary I tell them how it’s based on the per-person rent of a 2-bedroom condo closest to the work location and a percentage surcharge or rebate based on the job attributes. Either that’s too offbeat or detailed for them, and they sometimes get sad for one or both of those reasons.
Software update policy, dress code (there’s a difference between ‘casual’ and ‘business casual’), a tax for Teams or Office or Outlook, mandatory standby, forced field work, 9x9 schedule, etc. I don’t have a tax for ‘distance from nearest commuter train station’ but it’s coming.
Absolute.com (security not vodka) was down to $85k, though, as it was so awesome. But ohhh, if MDA or the BoC had bit, it would’ve been nearly $500k as they had SO many problems.
No, I mean “my ask.”
Not jargon. Recognized by the Oxford advanced learner’s dictionary. Perhaps your understanding of English is not “advanced”.
It is what I am asking. It is my ask.
What an absurdly pointless hair to attempt to split. It’d be one thing if you were being inquisitive, but you’re out here just confidently incorrecting people lmao.
Stay in school, kiddo.
I’ve been remote for over a decade; not going to stop now.
Not even for a “Fruity Tuesday”???
Same here. There is no reason to make me far less productive other than I’m pretty and people want to gaze at me adoringly in an office setting. It’s a weird fetish I guess, but I’ve seen weirder.
Shit i just realized I’ve been doing remote for about 7 years now.
Also not going to stop. No reason to especially since my team is spread across the states.
I’d consider one, but it’d have to pay considerably more. Like, 50% or more above what I’d otherwise expect for a fully remote position, and it would have to be an easy commute.
In most cases it’s adding 20-30% to the length of the work day when the commute is included, plus costs of transportation itself. Plus the general inconvenience and the fact that it’s almost always going to mean a more toxic culture. But if the pay and benefits were absolutely fantastic, I’d consider it, at least short-term.
And the commute is considered working hours. An hour commute means I’m in the office 9-3. With a lunch break.
the commute is considered working hours.
I think in Germany that’s part of the labour code: the clock runs the entirety of the time you’ve left the house on their instruction.
Another user was demanding 4x salary for in office, I would consider a 20% pay bump per in office day a reasonable request that likely results in a remote contract. It’s essentially saying it will cost you double to make me come in for that day.
I guess I’m rare in that I like working in an office. My house is for relaxing and enjoying my time, so the few times I did WFH I really just want to curl up on the couch instead of work.
Software developer here. I only apply for onsite jobs if I believe I will be able to formally or informally switch to hybrid once I build some trust.
