I just hope that the next new study doesn’t end up being “New Study: At Least 15% of All Lemmy Content is Corporate Trolls Trying to Manipulate Public Opinion”, otherwise I would be wondering WTF is going on, is Lemmy on the way of being enshittified by Corporate Morons?
Hey, good to see you around! How is your koala community going?
the rest are just regular trolls
Glad they included “at least” because there’s no way it’s that low.
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I mean Lemmy is also a bit of a cesspool at times, but it’s home now at least.
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Why would Lemmy be immune?
I’m glad I got caught up in the great exodus when they fucked over the 3rd party app devs. I’d read Reddit with Apollo, and it was mostly passive consumption of the posts and discussions being thrown out there by the faceless masses.
Here, it feels more like having actual discussions with real people, and I started actively participating right away. (Granted, this place isn’t impervious to bots and trolls, but for now it’s a smaller target at least)
I actually was still using RIF till the end. Took almost a month break and started using Sync for Lemmy the day it came out.
I feel like when I run into an old friend and they tell me my ex is in rehab.
those are some low numbers. between corporate, state, and anonymous shills and trolls, I wholly believe at least 50% of all reddit content is paid for or manipulative for agenda based groups. the sheer number of repetitve posts with repetitve comments constantly being on the front page is pure propaganda. Of course I rmemebr back in the old days when the reddit feed was in (almost) real time where you couldliterally wait every 10 minutes and refresh for an almost completely new front page. Now it’s all about repetivie agendas and narratives operating in cycles to manipulate public opinions. the same lame post will sit on the front page for entire days.
I’d say there is a huge amount of bots, then the smart bots, then the actual shills. The smarter ones run complex operations and are able to use their own power to self propel their own stories. And there are a lot of similar ‘power users’ who are not wholly paid for by someone but would do work for the highest bidder. I’d bet that yes, 50% of what’s on the front page of major things is reputation management or Hail Corporate stuff, then I’d wager the mostly less popular stuff is actual people, with a ton of bad posts from all sides at the low popularity
Not surprising at all.
In other news, GTA Online is awesome! I am definitely not a plant or anything like that, go check out GTA Online!
Or something like that.
lol
I remember when /r/HailCorporate was a trending sub and then it just sort of got strangled to death.
Also remember the periodic waves of “Hillary is bae! Mother of dragons! Yas Queen!” and “I love Mayor Pete” and “KHive ftw!” and even a smattering of Mitt Romney fanboi-ism on /r/politics, as their campaigns rose and fell.
Nevermind the absolutely sycophantic corporate ghoul AMAs. Bill Gates, Ann Coulter, and Don Lemon all leap to mind. Just the absolute fucking worst moderation imaginable for these guys. Then there was the Elon Musk AMA. Jesus fucking Christ.
I remember one specific account that spammed everything pro Tulsi into the politics subreddit. It was glaringly obvious that they were paid.
Just checked on him, 5 months ago he was posting to sports subreddits… which also feels like a red flag.
The only subreddit I still check is /r/cfb because it’s by far the best college football specific part of the internet and my Fanactus account seems to have been deleted. I’m not disclosing what my old account was but I was a upper mid level account there for about 7 years, not bragging just framing, it has gotten really fucking shilly in comparison to even last year although itd been happening for a while. It crescendoed with the release of the new college football madden analog, which does make logical sense for why, but there was some hard corporate dick riding. I don’t care for sports video games that don’t involve Mario or have the word Jam in the title so I don’t know if the game is any good but it was obviously paid
Is it a possibility that shill accounts are using sports subreddits to obfuscate the fact that they are still accounts? Like “Hey there fellow citizens, I’m totally a normal poster and a red blooded American who really likes sports!”.
Those of us who noticed when HailCorporate first got shadowbanned could see that particular train a coming. Reddit was always going to strangle its own content to death in order to make it more advertiser friendly. I’m honestly surprised it took as long as it did.
Also remember the periodic waves of “Hillary is bae! Mother of dragons! Yas Queen!” and “I love Mayor Pete” and “KHive ftw!” and even a smattering of Mitt Romney fanboi-ism on /r/politics, as their campaigns rose and fell.
Literally no, I was there and I don’t recall that at all.
Perhaps the record was corrected after you left.
Remember to ShareBlue!
My eyes were opened that election.
oh yah, I remember the absolute torrent of crypto shills that started spamming the place when crypto shill posts from other subs started getting posted there.
They were proper angry that they got called out.
Only 15% 🤨
A good chunk of the rest is morons parroting them.
at least
Uh, no, not “only”
“Only at least 15%”
As in one could expect the study to yield a higher low bound.
Up to 15% or more.
Wonder what the percent of AI datasets being propaganda is
The word “troll” just kinda doesn’t mean much anymore, huh.
I suppose they’re using the term troll to refer to a person engaging in behavior calculated to evoke a desired response while evading detection as doing such. It was actually used similarly in at least one academic paper back in the nineties: “Identity and deception in the virtual community”, by Judith S. Donath.
A troll is just someone who says something to provoke a (usually negative) response. They don’t have any agenda other than to entertain themselves.
A dude going into a Fortnite community to post “Fortnite sucks ass” is a troll. A dude posting propaganda to sway opinions toward a political goal/shill a product is something else.
I’ve said this before, but we also need to be cautious about this on lemmy and devise ways to empower mods and the community to fight back against this, I’m not entirely sure how since it’s a very complex problem
I agree, this is a very complex issue. As a community we should come together and brainstorm ideas while quenching our thirst with a nice can of Diet Pepsi, the zero-sugar alternative to being thirsty!
Most, if not all game reddits, product reddits, and company reddits are secretly or openly controlled by their respective corpos. Keeping communities as third party forums is a must have IMO.
It’s bloody difficult.
I used to mod on /r/videos years and years back. We had this one guy who was not very active as a mod in the day to day stuff, but was respected because he’d basically disappear for a few months and then reappear with a huge post in our modding sub basically going “so these are all spammers/malicious actors, here’s their profiles, the accounts were created in these waves, here’s where they’ve copied existing posts / the identical generic comments and things they use to get around our posting requirements, the targets they’ve been promoting, etc”. Just huge pages of thoroughly researched proof.
This was well before we had huge awareness of situations like Russia manipulating social media - it was usually those viral video places that buy up rights to videos and handle licensing and promotion. It’s why for a long time any licensed videos from places like viralhog etc were outright banned - they were constantly trying to manipulate reddit postings in bad faith, and even trying to socially engineer the mod team in modmail, so any videos that mentioned a licensing deal in the description were automatically banned from posting.
If we didn’t have that one guy spotting the patterns, most of it would have gotten by easily. Unfortunately he did eventually disappear for good. No clue what happened to him, hope he just cut out social media or something. But with the spamming and astroturfing stuff… Even after fighting it for years I can’t tell you what to do to counter it besides “have more of that guy”.
I am convinced this is already happening. One example is the endless new accounts posting ibtimes links.
There are also propoganda websites posted regularly by new accounts (especially sowing disinformation about Russia’s war on Ukraine).
Basically be wary of anything posted where it’s their first post. Often they make accounts and don’t use them for months so they look older.
I also think astroturfing is happening but at lower rate than reddit.
Like you, I have no idea how we can counter this at scale.
The same critical thinking should apply as all other platforms.
A link posted to an article on a company’s public blog published in the last 24hrs? Almost certainly viral marketing.
It might help if a poster’s number of posts and signup date were listed at the top of each post or comment. Would’t be a fix but might help weed out upsprouting autotrolls.
Yes, definitely. Perhaps highlighted if it’s one of their first few posts or the account is new.
There are a lot of subreddits which routinely award hundreds or thousands of upvotes for repetitive low value posts. … This is a cog in the well-tuned machine of new-accounts being created and matured to look ‘real’ for when they are later used for advertising / manipulation later down the line.
In the early months of a new account, it is easier to spot. Eg. If you see a post on a game subreddit with a title like “Exciting to try this game, any tips get started?”, you might click the profile and see that their entire history is a bunch of low-effort discussion starters. “Name a band from the 80s that everyone has forgotten”; “What’s the most misunderstood concept in maths?”; “What’s the most underrated (movie / band / drug / car / tourist attraction / whatever suits the topic of the subreddit)?”
A heap of threads like that, on a new account with a very generic name (adjective-noun-numbers is a common pattern); posting on a variety of subredits… is highly suspicious. But it gets harder to recognise as the account gets older and has a longer history - at which point it is ready to be sold / used for its next purpose.
Dead internet here we come!
Makes me miss the wild west days of the internet. Everything felt more… human. Now it feels like a soulless corporate husk. It’s wild that covid babies won’t know what those days were like.
For me, it was AIM chatrooms and ebaums forums, maybe the super early days of Skype (before being sold to Microsoft obviously). Shit did feel more real, and while content maybe didn’t come out at the same frequency, and there sure was shit, you just knew you were talking about it with other people. Made some good friends back then, would’ve been cool to stay in touch, but 20+ years is a long time.
You’re right in that it will never be like it was, but there are still fringes and niche communities that have that human feel. The thing is they’re much less engaging without algorithms and UX driving engagement, we’re not drawn to them in the same way.
Nostalgia fallacy
People are certainly susceptible to Rosy Retrospection, but let’s not forget that 2023’s word of the year was enshittification for a reason!
A two word rebuttal naming the argument type someone is using, does not constitute a valid argument.
Yes it does.
Three does
Check out https://wiby.me/
The Internet gained steam through hobbyists and is now that corporate shell as described. In my opinion it absolutely was a better place 25 years ago. Today the internet is filled with social engineering everyone’s trying to influence something and it’s terrible.
The Internet started as this kinda long-haired hippy fella who thought it would be great if everyone could share knowledge and have conversations with everyone else regardless of where they are geographically. Then the corpos made him cut his hair, put on a suit and tie and get a damn job! And 25 years later, he’s a yuppie corpo slave. I want my hippy back!
Agreed, but Lemmy feels like the old Internet for the most part. I suspect that 90% ish of comments here are actual humans. The remaining 10% is pushing some kind of agenda.
I agree. There’s also a pervasive feeling that lemmy is unaffected by manipulation and misinformation.
If Lemmy continues to grow sooner or later it will become a large enough target for manipulation, and I wonder how federation will fare at that time.
Idk, hexbear content comes up in my feed and I feel that’s all manipulation and misinformation
That’s why I’m glad, that my instance defederated from those. I saw some of that content from another instance and I don’t miss it.
Yeah, I feel the same, but I don’t really know enough about it to make that assertion.
Alright. I been afraid to ask for fear of getting banned from other communities hosted on their instance, but what is the deal with hexbear? The chat community seems like satire, but it gives off the same kind of vibes as the_donald, just far-left instead of far right. Like, I consider myself a lefty, but their community just seems self-destructive and toxic. Maybe that’s the point, though? Honestly unsure, and afraid to ask on their instance cuz I don’t wanna get accused of “just asking questions” and banned.
It really does feel like the_donald doesn’t it? I have no idea what they’re about. They claim to far left but when you look at what they’re actually saying it’s all hate for any position on the left. Even the word “left” is a dirty word there. They’re probably trolls trying to muddy the water. Maybe it’s some astroturfing or a space to experiment and generate new misinformation content. Idk, it sucks though, it feels all so toxic.
It’s a bunch lonely people who got hypnotized by a podcast and now that podcast informs all their opinions.
Definitely more than 10%. The only really unbiased info I’m finding here is related to obscure coding stuff, or Linux tips.
Reddit has a lot of shills, but that’s their business model and they guard access cuz they want to get paid. Lemmy has no moat, and no filter outside of individual mods
Portillos bots would camp on the Chicagofood sub and Stan about adding cheese sauce to everything and to make sure to save room for the chocolate cake. Nobody irl from the area would hype anything from that chain
The director of marketing at my company just got out of a meeting with reddit and is super hyped at funneling all our Facebook and Twitter dollars into reddit instead. I didn’t have the heart to tell him he’s five years too late.
Is fb or twitter really any more useful for ads though?
I’m confused. So this is a study that shows that significant less content on reddit is bots and trolls than it seems? Like ONLY 15%?
I feel like 15% would have been a realistic number a few years ago, but nowadays you have a hard time comunicating with a real human. A bit like online customer service.
I was also surprised, then I read how this is based on two studies, one four and and the other six years old. Now it makes sense: this was during the good old days!
This 15% isn’t inclusive of ALL bots and trolls. Just the corporate sponsored ones.
