I’m not sure what’s going on over there, but half the time I see a post from there or go into a comment section and it’s just…bad. Like old reddit the_donald bad. Constant trolling, etc. You TS just really bad vibes. I’ve been blocking the communities as they come up, but I’m not sure what else I can do.
I am formally asking hexbear users to stop participating in meta posts on other instances.
I thought this was a bit overkill, because they seemed well behaved for the most part, although a bit annoying every now and then. But this comment section shows exactly why we probably should. They’re so combative and seem to completely dominate the discussion.
Yeah, I came into this thread expecting to defend letting blahaj be federated with hexbear, but I’m left seeing a comment section being armwrestled by hexbear users, when this post should really be predominantly blahaj users weighing in on the pros and cons, and the impact of hexbear onto our instance.
Hexbear has a reputation for brigading. They do this intentionally to deny everyone else a platform and shut down any real discussion. They aren’t here to talk in good faith.
Checking this thread from an instance that has defederated hexbear is a wildly different experience.
Yeah, I logged on to my lemmy.world account to see a more local discussion… which is ironic.
Thank you for the suggestions, I feel much more sane checking into this thread from this point of view.
I might have to try that just to see lmao.
Here’s the view from over on slrpnk
Jesus, I didn’t realize that meant solarpunk. That’s not exactly a healthy sign, and neither is the fact I feel significantly less want to defed reading that version of the thread than this one.
Yup.
If anything the amount of comments are proving how many trans people are on hexbear, and splitting the trans community for arbitrary reasons is just a bad idea
There being many trans people says nothing about how good or bad it is. While we should ideally stand together, the behaviour of quite some hexbear users is honestly incredibly annoying. Us defederating would be a consequence of their actions. These are not “arbitrary reasons”. They’re brigading a lot of threads, constantly derailing the discussions with all kinds of whatabouttisms and overwhelming all other voices.
This very thread should’ve been a honest conversation with other blahaj users, instead hexbear has taken over everywhere and is leaving no room for opposition. Before this thread I honestly wasn’t against them, but today I’ve been noticing them derailing threads everywhere.
I gotta tell you, I don’t care about blahaj or hexbear as much as I care about trans people being able to talk about stuff. These are just means to an end, and why I value hexbear is because they get rid of transphobic and problematic comments the fastest so its easier to have nice conversations with other trans people. If you don’t like particular people, just block them. They aren’t saying anything transphobic/queerphobic if they’re from hexbear because theyll be banned instantly, so its just personal taste / you disagree on politics at that point.
Idk if youre trans or not, but I feel like most trans people would understand this sentiment. Plus you know, we are engaging / creating content on this platform in other ways, its immaterial whether or not someone is a user here or there.
I had never heard of that instance before opening this thread and ooh boy do I wish I hadn’t. I have known these kinds of people for a long time, I’ve been these kinds of people (for a thankfully brief period). Just in this thread there are hexbear users doing the usual tank schtick of goading people into political discussions and calling them neolibs. I can see why some might view them as a neutral or even positive place to have around given their apparent progressivism towards queer people and their mod team being largely trans, but I really don’t think that really makes any difference. You can slap some pride flags on it all but ultimately if you drill down deep enough into the beliefs of any group that proudly calls themselves Marxist Leninist you’re going to find some truly ugly shit. And it’s not just the obvious stuff like having to hear how progressive Cuba is, the stances they take on oppressive regimes always leads to some kind of war crimes/genocide/ethnic cleansing denial, and where they’re self aware enough to not outright deny they will deflect. I can see why from the perspective of queer western people this might all seem a bit esoteric because a lot of them will attempt to dance around the issues but they are there and a lot of people with familial connections to this stuff that do see it for what it is. And before any of their users get excited I’m not going to engage with your shit, I’ve seen you, I’ve been you, I know your shit and I don’t fuck with it. If you just scroll through here you can see the neolib name-calling and tankie memeing/totally ironic (probably) propaganda, they have zero self control. The blue and pink ain’t fooling me.
this is a very vague post, and frankly i strongly doubt you were ever a communist given your basic lack of understanding of marxist principles, there is zero reason to lie about such things.
also im trans and am a czech communist so… it is incorrect to assume that everyone from formerly communist countries hate communism. and i obviously have strong ‘familial connections’ to communism, many of my relatives were partisans that directly killed nazis that invaded our home. it is my experience, at least in czechia, that the communists are the most likely to be LGBT friendly out of any political grouping, and i strongly believe that eastern europe would not be the homophobic cesspit it is now if it remained communist.
Gotta second that, I have similar ‘familial connections’ to partisans in Greece, the UK/US directly helped the monarchofascists back into power after the war. I often wonder what it would have been like for LGBT people in Greece if tens of thousands of communists hadn’t been killed on desert islands thanks to US foreign policy.
the blind support of US imperialism and colonialism and anti-left sentiment from users of my instance in this thread is really disappointing to see, i expected better.
Hexbear is an explicitly left unity platform, MLs included.
Unless they start brigading heavily or cross a line in terms of the communities they house, we won’t be defederating them.
Their own communities are, quite something, but their admins have told them to be on their best behaviour when engaging in communities outside of their instance, and so far, they seem to be doing that
I think the fact that they’re more active in this thread than the blahaj folks is fairly emblematic of the problem. They can’t seem to help themselves with the brigading and they do seem to be drowning out local opinion with tankie rhetoric and spam.
EDIT: Just pointing out that if this were a blahaj exclusive thread you would get a very different sense of where popular opinion actually stands.
EDIT 2: I was initially pretty excited about federating with hexbear but I think after seeing the effect it has on the overall tone of discussion I’m pretty disappointed.
Not having downvotes does not, by any means, mean you need to post your disagreement. Our instance also does not have downvotes. You ARE drowning out exactly the sort of discussion this community is for. I can guarantee what you would like to say has already been posted and upvoting those posts and moving on IS the appropriate way to handle this issue in a meta community for an instance you are not a part of.
I think the fact that they’re more active in this thread than the blahaj folks is fairly emblematic of the problem.
It’s a thread about us, so . . .
tankie rhetoric
My valiant neoliberal argument. Their insidious tankie rhetoric.
Just pointing out that if this were a blahaj exclusive thread you would get a very different sense of where popular opinion actually stands.
You can see the instance of the poster, can’t you? And it’s not like hexbear people are able to downvote posts,
so our vote is (while still something) relatively weaker.tankie rhetoric
It’s a thread about us, so . . .
It’s actually a community about us, so…
My valiant neoliberal argument. Their insidious tankie rhetoric.
I am a leftist.
You can see the instance of the poster, can’t you? And it’s not like hexbear people are able to downvote posts, so our vote is (while still something) relatively weaker.
We can’t downvote either, but a quick sampling shows over 3x as many hexbear users commenting as blahaj, so…
It’s kinda brutal, I actually started this night completely on their side.
It’s actually a community about us, so…
It’s an instance that is federated and it’s not like there aren’t people from other federated instances popping in to offer absolute bullshit.
I am a leftist.
Go on . . .
We can’t downvote either, but a quick sampling shows over 3x as many hexbear users commenting as blahaj, so…
See the first sentence, you can see where we come from. An admin isn’t going to mistake hexbear users for blahaj users, as you demonstrated with your sampling. Noted on the voting part.
I just found this thread, and I’m struggling to find discussion from users of my instance about this. It took me scrolling quite a while to see the reply from our own admin about this. It’s not just about the admins being able to see what comments are from blahaj users. I mean, I think comparing y’all to T_D is fucking bullshit. But like many other blahaj users have said by now, I want to defederate purely based off the brigading of this thread.
I’ve told users from other instances to fuck off out of meta discussions of defederation before and I’ll tell you the same thing.
To all the blahaj users, wasn’t it so refreshing that the admins removed top-level comments from other instance users on the kbin.social defederation post? I think that was the perfect balance, because this thread is a complete fucking shitshow. Not blaming the admins for that, they posted that thread so it would have been easier to keep on top of moderating it.
You say “brigading” but I’m just here because the thread was on the front page of Active, and I think most of the other activity from Hexbear users here can be accounted for that way. The only place where there is evidence of “brigading” is the admin’s “People of Nato” comment (which, as an aside, is just an awful take).
no one has linked to this thread and encouraged users to jump in. it’s just at the top of Active.
So, we don’t have downvotes and haven’t for years. If I want to disagree with you, I have to respond, and I disagree with you. I’m not intending you harm by my reply, but, we’re on a forum, what am I to do but post?
tankie rhetoric
The largest and most inclusive trans positive space outside of blahaj has “tankie rhetoric”. You might want to think on that.
It’s almost like leftists stand for trans rights because it’s in the best interests of our material conditions
Responding to ridiculous claims which now appear on our own instance, comparing us to Donald Trump supporters, is not “brigading”.
You understand federation, right? It means that what you post here shows up on hexbear, what we post shows up on blahaj, and we can all interact. You wanna defederate - go for it. But don’t make ridiculous, outlandish, baseless claims about thousands of people (who are probably the best allies you have on lemmy as evidenced by other instances ITT) and call it “brigading” when people refuse those outrageous claims.
We just like to post a lot
I see this post on my front page. I come in and comment. Many hexbears do the same. We just post a lot. No “brigade” necessary.
we just post more than everyone else
you’ve gotta keep up
We’re one of the oldest instances and have a ton of extremely active users. This post is about our instance and appeared in our feed, why wouldn’t some of us respond to it?
I mean, i’d rather have this conversation with their input.
And yes, they have opinions. Opinions with which I often disagree. But recently my largest annoyance on Lemmy has been the “why are you intolerant towards bigots” contingent, not the hexbears.
We don’t have downvotes because some asshats were targetting trans posts(those asshats were purged) so we comment when we disagree.
Tend to agree.
Have you been in the news communities of late? Any time Russia/Ukraine comes up they’re flooding it with Russian apologia and silly emoticons.
Yeah the “whAt AbOuT UkraInian FASciSm” thing is pushed really hard over there.
It’s not Russian apologia. It’s just pointing out that Ukraine is not a smol bean like the saturation by western media and Reddit lackeys have painted it as.
No moreso than liberals are flooding it with liberal apologia. Also the vast majority of us aren’t pro russia, we’re anti NATO and Anti the war in Ukraine. Russia is fucked
No moreso than liberals are flooding it with liberal apologia
By sheer numbers we are probably “flooding” it more, though that isn’t to speak one way or the other about the legitimacy of what any of us might say
In a thoughtful and respectful dialogue, it would be more constructive to engage with differing ideas on their merits, rather than dismissing them with labels that may or may not apply.
mErItS
🥰
This aged poorly lol
Thanks, blahaj.zone is the only real instance I’ve liked on wider fedi because it actually does a decent job of moderating transphobia and homophobia, also I’ve enjoyed posting in the queer comms you have on your instance <3
to be on their best behaviour when engaging in communities outside of their instance
They weren’t in Lemmy.ca, got defederated for shitposting, and being trolls over there.
Yep. Excessive spam of the pig poop emojis, brigades and harassing people. Shadow made the right choice kicking them out
My DMs on Matrix, here, or even Hexbear itself are always open. We wanted to add this instance as solidarity between trans mod teams on the lemmy-verse is very important to us. The Hexbear mod team is over 50% trans and the Hexbear user base trends heavily in that direction as well, as such any concerns you have I would appretiate discussing before action is taken. Thank you
That’s good to hear! I like getting blahaj posts in my feed
spoiler
Based
I stand with and support whatever you choose to do. I just thought I’d bring it up. Thanks for all you do!
My only complaint is the popularity might be crashing our instance lol, but they are cool.
Hexbear is more trans friendly than the majority of trans places, honestly. The reason for this is the mods defer to trans users on what counts as transphobia, half the mod team itself is trans, and offensive posts are removed quickly before they can affect other people. I’d say its more trans positive than here, based off what I’ve seen. There are chaser comments that are left up even in response to moderators and admins on blahaj, these would be rapidly removed on hexbear. Plenty of trans places, this one included, also are not very good at weeding out people that are being sneaky about their transphobia and chaser habits, which can poison the well. And not only do the moderators of hexbear do good work, the dev team specifically goes out of their way to program ways to make trans users feel more comfortable (e.g. the universal pronoun tag system).
As a trans woman that is also a survivor of abuse, jokes are made all over the internet about sexual violence and its very hard for me to avoid upsetting my PTSD. Hexbear actively removes these sorts of posts rapidly, too, and even removes borderline cases like bringing up SV out of context and without content warnings. For these reasons hexbear is the main site I visit, no other site or community really comes close.
Ffs I was a long time /r/chapotraphouse user and even tried to use the website after the sub got banned (nothing against it even, just didn’t really have enough of my interests to really keep me) But y’all gotta admit this is pretty fucking embarrassing. Like this is a instance meta post on a pretty small, very explicitly pro trans leftist instance, do ANY of you think you would have actually been defederated in the first place? Like genuinely, do you not think you would’ve just had people like me say “naw they’re chill”. But instead you put an odd couple hundred comments on this thread when the biggest in the little bit, has about 40? And get this, it’s also a thread a defedding from an instance, but actually deserved it, and our admin had already been on the case? Embarrassing.
Big time edit: This was the comment I had originally typed out, and while I still believe quite a bit of it, I’m kinda disgusted by the amount of Russia apologia and pro war sentiment generally. But let me guess, I must be pro nato?
I’m kinda disgusted by the amount of Russia apologia and pro war sentiment generally.
Where are you seeing this. Do you have links? I’ve seen people mentioning this a lot but have never seen any of this content personally.
Hexbear has the highest proportion of people with neopronouns in their names that I’ve seen on the entire fediverse, and for that reason alone I would prefer that they stay federated.
But the brigading, harassment, disinformation campaigns, bad faith arguments, and excessive emoji spam aren’t a problem? Those reasons alone are why they need to be defedded. My instance did so yesterday and the site has been all the better for it.
Why are you commenting on this thread when you’re not a member of the server?
Lol try that on the hexbear folks
Because I know how much of a problem Hexbear is. They’re harmful to every community they flood into with their trolling, brigading and harassment of anyone who disagrees with them. I don’t care if this isn’t my home instance, I want to spread awareness of this problem so that users here can participate in peace without being bothered by Hexbear’s abhorrent behaviour.
Not gonna lie, hexbear is probably the most trans friendly place on the internet that I’ve found and taken part in. I’ve had some tough episodes of dysphoria lessened in severity partly in thanks to the community. They’re frankly quite wonderful. Or at least to me I suppose.
That being said, I was kinda excited to see that we were federating with this instance. Finding and being part of other trans inclusive spaces is quite nice, especially since I don’t do a lot of internet crawling for the good of my psyche. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to be around as of late due to my taking care of my girlfriend after a recent surgery. So I missed the time of having been federated.
It’s a shame that it’s coming to this, but what can I do at the end of the day? Perhaps I’ll make an account here. Maybe. Hopefully we can coexist in some fashion.
My opinion is please defederate. Thank you.
On the one hand I am not mad to have different ideologies here but they seem to go out of their way to pick fights which is pretty grating for what is supposed to be a memey, supportive community. Also whenever someone points out a one negative thing about a communist country they seem to counter it by saying a western country did the same/worse, which isn’t wrong but doesn’t address the point? If they could just accept a fault here or there it would go a long way in seeming less aggressive.
If you’d like to know our reasons for doing that (or anyway, my reasons), they’re twofold. First, even with the rise of China and the seeming return of global multipolarity, western countries continue to dominate world affairs, militarily and economically. It’s simply a matter of scale; when they act up, it’s likely to effect the lives of millions of people around the world, directly or otherwise. Second, most of us are ourselves westerners, and of those I’m betting most of us are from the the US. As citizens of these places, our first responsibility is to point out our own nations’ crimes, both because of their widespread influence, and because of our proximity to them.
There’s also the matter of communist countries being the subject of a truly absurd amount of western propaganda. We feel the need to push back against certain narratives about the supposed crimes of communist countries because we know many of them to be exaggerated, misrepresented, and at times outright fabricated. Most of us are close students of history, some of us like myself are even academic historians, and it can be frustrating to provide reams of evidence for our claims (or more often, counter-claims) and be met with accusations of whataboutism, rather than earnest engagement. It’s why so many of us are quick to assume that the pushback we get is in bad faith, because it quite often is.
But anyway, I’m getting off track. Very few of us, I find, are unwilling to acknowledge the flaws, missteps, and yes, even crimes of actually existing socialist states, when they are well evidenced. For instance, I doubt many of us would defend the deportation of the Crimean Tatars, but we’re equally unwilling to accept the Holodomor as an example of deliberate ethnic genocide because the common narratives surrounding it rely on fabricated numbers, misrepresentations of Soviet state policy, and Nazi propaganda, to say nothing of their denial of professional historical consensus.
Thank you for a well thought out and explained response
The problem is, they’re not actually arguing in good faith. They’re here to call people neolibs, spam, and pick fights. It’s not about ideology, it’s about a group of people who only want to cause trouble.
they seem to counter it by saying a western country did the same/worse, which isn’t wrong but doesn’t address the point?
western countries are typically higher in every respect on the HDI and yet they often have the same/worse problems as a less developed communist country. then people from said western country flock to criticize the communist country for said problems and offer only token acknowledgement of these problems in their own country. when called out on this, they reveal a superficial understanding of how the problem manifests itself in either country and withdraw to rhetorical redoubts of ‘criticism is never unhelpful’ and ‘i also criticize my own country (but i criticize the communist one a lot more)’.
do you see how this might come across as frustrating or hypocritical?
I think you both present a great explanation for the hexbear method as well as simultaneously a tiny improvement: we can follow up the criticisms of the western countries with a quick “so the problems manifests deeper than youre saying”
I’m also fine with how we do it tbh, just trying to always improve when possible.
Also whenever someone points out a one negative thing about a communist country
These accusations are frequently false or meaningless (Cuba has the most progressive family code in the world, but we can’t expect it to spearhead every social issue all the time), but you might like some thoughts that I fielded on an alt account to humor a claim made by a liberal who wouldn’t have been worth the effort if I couldn’t repost the thread other times like now:
It can often get tense with them and I don’t agree with some of their takes, but they are definitely a voice to consider seriously and worth arguing (in a polite way) with.
Unlike those conservative right echo chambers, most of them are actually educated, historically literate and smart, and they actually provide sources for their claims instead of hand waiving and using every falacy in the book.
The problem is that they are in support of regimes which are currently or historically anti LGBT+. There is no further discussion to be had. Even if they claim to be whatever, they are against us. Their ideology is incompatible with our freedom and possibly our lives.
You cannot be pro Soviet, pro Russia, pro China or whatever else and LGBT+. You would fight against that for the same reason you fight against Nazis. The ecological politics or so are irrelevant at this point. Even if you agree with that, don’t forget that they want us gone.
This is so close to the Nazi bar problem and I fully understand why defederation might be the best course of action. Personally I don’t know what the right call is, but I blocked the instance using the Connect app anyway.
the US is historically anti-LGBT and it’s currently undertaking a genocide of trans people in red states.
historically anti LGBT+.
This strikes me as a silly way to complain about Cuba, since for the other AES states you’d probably just say “currently,” but today Cuba has the most progressive family code in the world, maybe in world history when talking at the national level, along with other merits regarding state support of HRT, etc. We all recognize that the early ban on gay marriage was an error, one for which Fidel Castro himself apologized publicly and encouraged the reversal of!
hi, i live in capitalist florida and my human rights are worth about as much as week-old dogshit. if you’re pro-nato or pro-u.s. then you are anti-lgbt rights
as an interesting note of comparison, china, while historically quite bad on trans issues, has been making pretty impressive strides as of late, even opening their very first gender clinic (for children) a few years back
idk what you’re going on about “their ideology is incompatible with lgbt rights” a plurality of people on hexbear are some variety of gay or trans or both (like me!). i’m pretty sure a solid 70% of our userbase would commit a murder with their bare hands if it could meaningfully improve the station of lgbt people even a single iota
your entire comment is very ignorant. ironically it’s probably closer to propaganda than anything you’ll see on hexbear
I am anti LGBT that’s a new one. I am repeating myself, but NATO is irrelevant for LGBT+ rights and it is just brought up as some form of whataboutism for the 20th time. The world is not the USA, but most of you seem to have a very narrow view. Yes, the US sucks. So far none of you mentioned that you were jailed or killed for being LGBT+ in the USA, even though it is so much worse than the Soviet Union or Russia or anywhere else in the world (lol).
Yes, recently you took many steps backwards especially in Florida and the problems are real, but it is still a better situation than just a few years ago. Get a grip.
Seriously, it is just annoying at this point. It is ridiculous that you believe that you are somehow special and won’t be prosecuted by dictators like Putin, killed by Stalin for “anti communist behavior” etc. I am not saying any of this, because I disagree with communism as a whole, but because the regimes you associate with would never allow us to live and flourish like we do and I don’t want to find out.
Yes, recently you took many steps backwards especially in Florida and the problems are real, but it is still a better situation than just a few years ago.
Seriously, it is just annoying at this point. It is ridiculous that you believe that you are somehow special and won’t be prosecuted by dictators like Putin, killed by Stalin for “anti communist behavior” etc.
Quite literally nobody is saying this. But to be completely fair, Cuba, a communist state, currently has better protections for LGBTQ+ people than any state in the US. ESPECIALLY Florida.
Posting a reply I just wrote elsewhere:
I’m trans and know people that live in China, their conditions are basically the same as the USA, but slightly better these days because they don’t have a hate mob spreading lies about them in the media and trying to genocide them in select states like America does. In general, there is next to zero awareness about transness in China, whereas the opposite is true in America (they are highly aware and full of hate about it), so it is a different flavor of bad in that regard. The emphasis the government has on accessible affordable housing and food makes that aspect of transness easier than in America, though, the trans women I know in China all have their own safe place to live in.
Now Russia… yeah… they’re doing what those American states were doing federally now. But Ukraine does similar too, unfortunately. Source: I’m Czech and can read/speak most slavic languages by virtue of that, I also have been part of an illegal network to help trans/queer refugees leave Russia and Ukraine. In this organization we would typically help people move to Prague, St. Petersburg (for people who cant leave Russia, this is the best choice of city), and in the east, to China, particularly Shanghai and Harbin (large russian community there). Language barrier and cost of living are huge factors in where we’d help people move.
spoiler
You cannot be pro Soviet, pro Russia, pro China or whatever else and LGBT+.
Communist countries generally speaking are better on lgbtq rights for their economic development.
You can’t be a capitalist and be pro-lgbt. Cuba, a marxist leninist democracy, has the most lgbtq rights in the world.
Also the reunification threw back lgbt rights in east Germany decades.
The stasi were assigned to defeat subversion by lgbt activists. Their recommendation, which was followed, was to give the activists all the rights they asked for.
hexbear, with a mod team that is 50% trans, a user base that heavily skews trans, has the largest collection of trans emotes I’ve ever seen on any website, and enforces pronoun tags, is anti-trans.
this does not make any sense. you are writing off an entire community based on foolish (and provably false) preconceived notions.
Do people at hexbear ever show support for Russia? China? Soviet Union? Stalin? Mao?
If there is a single yes then explain me how that does compute? All those countries or dictators are known to harshly discriminate, jail or kill LGBT+ people.
Soon I will probably receive another 10 replies explaining why the USA is bad or some unrelated NATO rant, but so far no one gave a clear answer how anyone in their right mind would want to see any of those regimes to succeed or even come back.
Without ignoring this major problem which is incompatible with our lives and our freedom I don’t know how any sane LGBT+ person would ever want that. I am not sure how I am the foolish one and so far with all the replies I have yet to read one single agreeable take which isn’t some form of whataboutism.
China has clinics dedicated specifically for trans people, especially trans youth ( https://www.gingerriver.com/p/story-of-teens-at-a-transgender-clinic ). I believe earlier in the thread someone linked sources regarding LGBT people in the Soviet Union, I don’t have the sources on hand bu,t I can circle back to this comment when I get home from work.
We do not support Russia, even though our comments are frequently misconstrued as such. Please, understand that criticizing politics in the western world does not equate support for Russia. Also, please understand that Hexbear is not a monolith. We have a wide range of users with a focus on left-unity, but we aren’t a hivemind with the same uniform opinions.
We do not shy away from mistakes that past socialist projects made, we attempt learn from those mistakes to build something better. Many socialist revolutionaries (Che and Fidel, to name a couple off the top of my head), recanted their backwards opinions upon learning more about queer issues.
Am I saying that China or the USSR are perfect? Of course not. They’ve both made mistakes. The important thing is to realize the progress that has/had been made regarding minority rights in those nations.
You know this is the first take I can actually mostly agree with. At least I can kinda understand it. I don’t like the glossing over the human rights violations in support for any of the mentioned people, regimes or countries which let’s be honest is a lot of baggage. Hence I reject to associate with any of that.
Unfortunately your view seems to be mostly unique between all the other replies which either dodge or contradict the question you answered.
Thank you for taking the time.
Hey, no problem! I’m glad we could talk. If you’re ever curious or have more questions, feel free to post in our daily megathreads, you’ll always find a friendly group there!
I know you’re mostly going on vibes but I’m curious if you have intel on Mao’s personal stance on homosexuality. It’s surprisingly easy to find solid evidence that Stalin was decidedly personally homophobic (something which I don’t think anyone at Hexbear denies unless they just don’t know the Lore), but I haven’t found information one way or the other on Mao’s personal stance, just the usual concern trolling from neoliberals.
Then by your logic you cannot be pro US or pro NATO and be LGBT. Funny
I don’t know why NATO even matters. Well I know why it is brought up, but seriously I won’t even entertain that.
What makes you think that I even would want to visit the US? I wouldn’t feel safe there for many reasons.
I don’t know what else to tell you. I don’t understand how you can in all seriousness support your position without glossing over all the anti humanistic and anti LGBT+ things going on. I doubt I can say anything to make you understand why that’s a line I like many others won’t ever cross.
I don’t know why NATO even matters
NATO encompasses tons of homophobic contries. That and it supports Western hegemony which is harmful to most of the world, including queer people.
Oh, so you are anti NATO then, yes? You are outspoken against every country that has ever had anti LGBT laws? Or are you being disingenuous because you are an anti communist? 🤔
Why would I care about NATO in this context? Unless it is supposed to be sone stupid pro Putin argument or so. I don’t support the military and that should be enough of this.
And yes, I am outspoken about unequal laws. Why should I be outspoken against countries that ever had any and presumely not anymore? That’s a weird take. I don’t have the power to fix the world, but I still have an opinion and a long list of countries I’d refuse to visit.
Why some economical system even matters in this discussion is another point I don’t really understand. I never made my own position clear, because it does not matter in the slightest. I am for a social and democratic system which cares about the needs of everyone equally and it does not really matter how it is implemented or what you call it if it does actually work. Post scarcity communism is the optimal state we could maybe archive in a few hundred or thousand years, but until then we have to take one step at a time. Right now it is a utopic idea and seriously irrelevant to this discussion. Does that sound like anti communist to you? Not that it really matters.
Sorry, but my world isn’t as black and white as you think it is.
Right now it is a utopic idea
This is 100% just me having a Pavlovian response to that word, but is there even the slimmest chance I could interest you in reading Socialism: Utopian and Scientific by Friedrich Engels? Here’s a text online and here’s a great, free audiobook.
You are right that FALGSC is a utopian idea (depending on what specifically you mean) and therefore not relevant, but it’s so not relevant that I wonder why you mention it?
I am for a social and democratic system which cares about the needs of everyone equally and it does not really matter how it is implemented or what you call it if it does actually work
Oh, right, okay, that makes sense. I think you have misconceptions about Marxism if you believe Marxists would not describe their views in roughly these terms. The text I linked discusses that topic in some level of detail, in the broader context of historical social progress and other socialist theorists.
No, I mentioned it because I know that the ideas are compatible. They don’t necessitate each other though. The economic system does not matter if (!) you can achieve the goals otherwise and was a direct reply to the idea that I might be anti communist which is obviously not the case. The full answer to this is much more complicated though.
I mean, a lot of us are pro-Cuba, which is AES and has some of the most progressive family policy in the world.
Also, your “historical” thing is just really hard to process. After all, standards change. Hell, within the “West”, LGBTQ+ acceptance is barely 40 years old (and often, as we see, under attack for the gains that have been won). Was the US in the 90’s really that much better for LGBTQ+ folks than the USSR before it collapsed? And while not LGBTQ specifically, the situation of women in the USSR was far superior to the West - especially in STEM..
This doesn’t mean that we can’t (and shouldn’t) judge the lack of LGBTQ+rights in the past – we can and should. However, Cuba’s family policy shows that there’s nothing inherent to communism that’s “incompatible with our freedom and possibly our lives.”
In summary (and here I’ll post my only emoji, since there’s the bug),
Of course I am referring to all the Stalin apologists on your server. Some people really want to argue for the sake of arguing.
So far no one even bothered to justify how they can even pretend to support Russia, the late Soviet Union etc. It’s just a bunch of whataboutism.
Support Stalin: which country liberated Auschwitz? What country wrested control of Berlin from the Nazis? The Soviet Union. “Every Party member must raise his revolutionary qualities in every respect to the same level as those of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin” -Nelson Mandela
Support modern Russia- Russia opposes NATO, and anything that hurts the west is good. Also the current Ukraine government was founded by guys who want to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen.” Anyone killing Nazis is good, and Russia is currently doing so. “Russians are Asians. They have a completely different culture, vision. Our key difference from them is humanity” -Aleksy Danilov, head of Ukraine national security and defense council.
In both cases, it’s less of “these guys good” but of “the other guys worse.”
Holy hell. This is the most ridiculous take I have read so far.
As I said before supporting those regimes or dictators is incompatible with our lives and our freedom. Therefore there is no further discussion to be had and any trans* or LGBT+ person should fight against it for the same reason we fight against Nazis.
This just proves my point and it’s seriously frightening that it is even a conclusion any person in an allegedly LGBT+ friendly space would come to.
The Soviet Union pioneered many modern trans surgeries and research, particularly modern trans male surgeries. These were done in Riga for trans men with significant dysphoria and the bravery to deal with a largely queerphobic world. Remember to compare two countries from the same time period, gay and trans rights were never even thought of by any society at large in the 50s and 60s.
Also as an anecdote, my grandma was a party official in communist Czechoslovakia for a major union and had a lot of ploy in our region, almost everyone important knew her. She didn’t know what being trans was until I came out to her. She immediately became the most supportive person in my life (outside of my amazing bf) and began advocating for trans and queer issues to her cadre of commie grandmas to great success. I fully believe that if the communists were still in control, LGBT rights would be much better in Eastern Europe. The issue with communists back then was largely ignorance and not knowing that anything LGBT even existed.
It’s context, not whataboutism. Keep in mind that queer interests are working class interests and vice versa.
For example, 40 percent of homeless youth in the US are queer, socialist “everyone should have a home” policies really help the most marginalized queer folks.
I actually view the rainbow-washing of us foreign policy as a big part of the problem- It allows reactionaries and conservatives to express bigotry and persecute LGBT people under the guise of being “anti-imperialist” or resisting western influences.
Fuck corporate pride and rainbow raytheon shit, America has historically been extremely shitty to gay and trans people and it makes me sick even being associated with their ‘foreign policy’. Just because they ‘legalized gay marriage’ via decree 8 years ago, doesn’t mean they’ve not done real genocides in the past to LGBT people, and aren’t laying the groundwork for doing it again in the future (eg Florida).
Allies marched gay people right back into the concentration camps when they liberated them, for example:
I don’t live in the USA and I am not fond of its politics in any way. It does not matter though. We are trying to survive and flourish with what we have.
What you are saying is that what I am doing is actually just bullshit. I am trying to improve the working environment for other LGBT+ people, I help them with problems they have. I fully support visibility of queer people in their work place and I spend a lot of personal time on that.
You know there are other problems people have which can be solved without a radical and forceful revolution. It is unrealistic and currently a daydream at best. I am actually trying to improve the situation with the cards that were dealt and for some reason you ridicule all of that.
Sorry, but that’s just a bad take. You are barking at the wrong tree.
The problem is that they are in support of regimes which are currently or historically anti LGBT+. There is no further discussion to be had. Even if they claim to be whatever, they are against us.
we’re not against you. We are you. We all want a better world and work towards it however we can. Painting us as queerphobic feels pretty disingenuous
Then stop associating with the queerphobic regimes. Simple.
If you side with the people who are against us I have no reason to trust you in any way.
Hey, so I wanted to talk about this point a bit more. I’m LGBT+ myself, and I used to have issues with countries that are definitely not queer friendly. What changed my thinking about this was seeing how so-called progressive countries are far more harmful to us than most countries that have actual anti-LGBT+ laws.
The main example I would point to is Israel. I used to be somewhat supportive because I bought into the fact that they do give us some rights, whereas the main groups fighting for Palestinian people are not friendly to us. However, because of how many civilians are killed by Israel they objectively kill more LGBT+ people than Hamas or the PLA. A few years back there was a major bombing campaign against Gaza in which over 60 Palestinian children were killed. Statistically some of those kids would have grown up to be LGBT+ if they had been allowed to live. Now, being LGBT+ in Palestine is NOT a great situation, but it’s still better to be alive and have a chance to fight for better rights.
This applies even further for NATO and the US military. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan alone. Many of those people were LGBT+. Statistically the US war machine is the single biggest killer of people like us in the world.
This doesn’t even go into how our countries prop up anti-LGBT+ regimes like Saudi Arabia or the other gulf states. In the Israel example, they will entrap gay men and force them to act as spies, placing their lives in greater jeopardy. The recent burst of anti-LGBT+ laws in African countries are being funded and even written by American churches, churches which are untaxed and thus funded by the US government.
I’m also replying to your bottom comment, and lots of you generally, but I can shit on everything antilgbt and still hate russia, and not like nato. It’s not some fucking wild thing. Stop acting like people here are fucking ignorant of the world.
A significant portion of Hexbears users are LGBT themselves. Your argument kind of falls flat.
No, not really. It is not even special. I mean there are Polish Nazis around. They associate with the same people who will eat their face the first chance they get.
That’s how I see you. It’s the same situation really.
I don’t understand why you associate with those regimes, defend them or even cheer them on. But I doubt there is anything I can say to change your mind.
I am actually trying to improve the situation with the cards that were dealt and for some reason you ridicule all of that.
When the game is rigged, sometimes the only response is to upend the table.
You might not be familiar with queer history in the US, but one of the pivotal moments in it- Stonewall, was an actual riot, with cops beating the shit out of trans girls and everything. It immediately got whitewashed and co-opted by liberal elements to the point where now people routinely have cops at pride!
It’s a convenient fantasy that rights can be won by passively participating and voting. Rights are won by fighting for them, and making people uncomfortable until they give you what you want.
Of course I am aware what is happening, what was happening and where you are heading. Where I live I am doing my part and don’t you dare to ridicule that.
We are gaining ground. Many things got better over the past few years where I live and I will continue to do what I do and support what I can support.
I cannot wait and dream about some communist revolution and look down on others for actually trying. At this point I am not sure if this discussion is even in good faith anymore or if you just want to insult me and others like me.
I haven’t insulted you, at least not intentionally - you seem to think I’m sitting on my hands posting online, I do plenty of real life organizing with other trans and unhoused people. It’s being exposed to people living on the fringes of society that I otherwise have so much in common with that gives me this orientation towards electoralism.
I’d urge you to consider the fact that we are explicitly, radically pro-trans. Our mod team is over half trans people and our userbase heavily skews that direction as well. I myself am trans. And I’m a communist, partially because of the experiences I’ve had as a trans person living under neoliberalism. I didn’t start out as a communist, I slowly drifted that way as a result of learning, specifically learning more history. I’ll recommend the podcast Blowback here, I think all 3 seasons are really good, well-researched, informative, and entertaining. They give a lot of context to various US actions abroad and it’s a very approachable podcast. Season 4 is coming out soon and I can’t wait!
Also, check out Cuba’s family code if you want an example of a communist country being extremely socially progressive. It’s cool and good!
I know that the US are not the good guys. They did and they are still doing horrible things. But the world isn’t the USA.
I never will support an authoritarian regime, especially if they are anti LGBT+. Supporting anything like that is such an leopards ate my face take and on the same level as Polish or Jewish Nazis.
Your role models are horrible. Even if the ideology might have its merits there is nothing to discuss as long as there is so much widespread support for hostile regimes and their politics.
Honestly this whole thing is puzzling me for this very reason. I don’t know how a trans person could ever reason themselves into that position. I don’t know how a sane person could be so delighted to see the suffering of others (e.g. Ukraine or Uyghur genocide) as many comments are implying from your server.
Sorry if I have the wrong idea, but it just does not compute.
I never will support an authoritarian regime, especially if they are anti LGBT+. Supporting anything like that is such an leopards ate my face take and on the same level as Polish or Jewish Nazis.
If you’re a trans USian who supports NATO living in for example Florida that exact leopards ate my face take is unfolding in real time.
The US is incredibly authoritarian if you don’t have money- which is a large part of why it has such a high prison and unhoused population. I view trans liberation as a part of every one elses liberation, because there’s a lot of trans people who can’t afford gender affirming care, don’t have access to it, and don’t even have access to a safe place to live, and don’t have resources if their family abandons them.
This is a good way to put it and one of the reasons I’m so perplexed about how queer the instance is. I genuinely don’t understand how LGBTQ+ people can simp for regimes that simply want to/wanted to murder them.
And before someone jumps in with “but America/the West/liberals are trying to do the same thing”… if you don’t think it’s easier being queer in the US, even with all the problems, than in Russia or North Korea, I just don’t know what to tell you.
is this your second ever comment or does your profile display incorrectly for me?
If they are active on some trashbin like lemmy.world or something, then I don’t think we can see those comments
The vast majority of us are queer, I’ve literally never been in a more trans inclusive space on the internet (except for the unofficial invite only trans hexbear user discord), I’m in DMs with like a dozen of the trans users from here pretty frequently and frankly without the amazing support from them I think it would have taken years longer for me to realise I was trans, the mods and admins have shown repeatedly over the last several years that they’re completely committed to the rights of trans people - including “provoking” reactionaries within the early hexbear user base into a massive site splitting argument that ended with one of the mods almost getting doxxed and the site getting ddossed because transphobes were angry at being made to respect trans people (we still have our lovely pronouns to this day and anyone who protested got banned on the spot for a while) and at one point there was a reading group on a book of trans liberationist theory by Leslie feinberg that was pushed as pretty much mandatory by one of the old head mods TransComrade69
That’s… not the kind of debating I’ve seen them do, but sure. As far as reasonable debate goes: if you have to brigade and spam, you’ve already lost. What exactly the message was just doesn’t matter.
Some of the users takes on the CCP are garbage, but a few garbage opinions doesn’t warrant defederating.
Edit: You know what on second thought let’s defederate. There are a lot of tankies shilling for countries that hate the lgbtq.
I would honestly miss you all a lot if that happened
Don’t compare us to the_donald just because we’re not libs. I’m trans, just also a Marxist Leninist.
All trans hexbear emotes
almost as bad as the_donald though
I made a lot of these!
spoiler
almost as bad as the_donald though
correct, hexbear does not have enough trans emojis
You forgot
cissues
Here's a few more that I remembered
and there are several others of some other trans video game characters I can’t remember the name of
and there are several others of some other trans video game characters I can’t remember the name of
How could I forget these?
