Remember the sacred texts:
You all are making me work too hard, so I’m locking this dumpster fire and drinking my coffee.
if I speak out online I could be muted or banned
Do you have any idea what social platforms look like when this is not the case?
Hint: it starts with a number
The random board on 4chan is a good indicator for how that would look like (very NSFW and depending on your location illegal content there)
Believe it or not, even 4chan has some standards. The 8 variants, on the other hand…
Oh so baity!
You can remove “western democracy” there I guess.
Also nah, I can speak out against my boss, my eventual landlord and protest in the streets, because I live in France, a western democracy.
YMMW.
eventual landlord
So you’re a child? Lol good luck speaking out against a landlord, don’t you know it’s like a job interview nowadays with references from past landlords and all?
I own my appartement but I have rented over 20 different ones before that.
No need to namecall just because you don’t understand 😊
Oh ok so you haven’t rented in the current market. So actually it’s you who doesn’t understand eh?
Idk what you meant in that case by “eventual landlord”, maybe try actually making sense first and then maybe you won’t get name-called as much.
From what I can tell, France still has essentially no-fault evictions and nowhere near sufficient renter protections, while there is a housing crisis going on. It’s not anywhere near as bad as the UK, but given the regulations as I can see them, I wouldn’t risk speaking out against the landlord in any capacity there either. This doesn’t even touch the fact that France is also fairly centralised, in that job opportunities are richer closer to the city and the bigger the city, and Paris is even worse for living expenses overall than London.
That is totally right. I’m french. Laws protect renters, but not that much, and landlords don’t hesitate to threaten with false pretense. And if you mention anything illegal they’re doing, you simply won’t have the apartment. They ask documents they have no right to see, but if you don’t provide them they won’t even look at your application. Obviously people of colour do have a harder time finding an apartment, but even for engineers it’s hard to find one in a city.
Literally who is downvoting you? Are there landlords on fucking solarpunk memes?
lol ever heard of renter’s rights? it’s incredibly fucking difficult to kick out a renter here in sweden, they have to repeatedly be a massive nuisance to everyone around.
In Sweden yes, maybe, idk, not Swedish. In Europe no, we have heard of renters’ rights, but as a renter I can tell you we have practically none.
That is completely dependent on country and who you try to rent from. In Norway the most I ever had to do is consent to an automatic check to prove I don’t have any reports of not paying bills.
You ever rent from a private landlord, instead of letting agency?
I’m Finnish, and what you say has been true for me — aside from when my credit got fucked (due to some semiauthoritarian bullshit), when I had to rent from a private landlord.
That was more or less exactly how the earlier commenter describes it; an interview. Luckily I was just over 20 and out of the army as an NCO, so the old couple were really into that and gave me the apartment.
I also used to believe our cops weren’t that bad. Until I was detained and saw how they act behind closed doors.
I’ve only rented from companies as it’s generally safer and you know that they will (most likely) follow the law.
You never know what you get when you rent from people, their professionality and knowledge of the various laws are highly variable. You could get lucky, and you could get very unlucky.
Oh for sure. I’m not french but I’m relatively familiar with the rental laws there as I considered them in depth when I considered moving and they’re not much better than the UK, where it is utter dogshit.
In France you need to earn 3 times the price of the lawn, and you need warrants (garants) : people who will be forced to pay if you ever don’t. To prove you can pay, you need 3 months of salary sheets. You need to prove your job is not a CDD (short determined time). You need to show insurances and prove your identity too of course. Half of those are not legal, but landlords don’t care because you’re in competition : you visit the apartment with a dozen of other people who want a place to sleep too. And the landlord will choose the chosen one as he pleases.
It depends on the place, but Lyon is absolute madness to find an apartment.
And I can do all this in America. Mind you I work somewhere that struggles to keep people and more selective jobs do pull this shit, same with my landlord. And yeah protesting does often go that way if you’re left wing
And yet most of the political forces in France are advocating to remove all these rights. Sindicalists are arrested under terrorist laws, as are eco-activists. And maires trying to enforce price ceiling for lawns in cities are considered like Staline.
Sure and that is bad.
What does it have to do with the discussion though? Or is it “west bad” whatever happens?
So as long as the litteral nazis are not in charge genociding people it’s fine and there’s nothing to worry about? Syndicalistes and ecoactivists being arrested for terrorism is fine already?
So “west bad” it is then.
I mean if the above things are what defines the west then yeah. But I don’t think they do, or at least they don’t have to - I believe we stand for better things than that - for liberty, for democracy and welfare of all and I believe in progress, not complacency and decay thinly veiled by whataboutism.
The French are smart enough to burn cars and loot when their government tries to pull some bullshit. I wish Germans were that smart.
Doesn’t matter whether you consider the US a western democracy, they consider themselves one and what OOP says is that that can’t possibly be right for the reasons following. It seems you are in agreement after all.
The US wasn’t even mentioned in the post, implying this as generic problems which is not the case.
I bet OP hasn’t actually done any of the things they listed. Reads like an edgy teenager.
Well surely they haven’t under threat of all things listed
@stabby_cicada FREEEDOOOOO-
Oh.In the US, maybe. But that’s considered a flawed democracy and getting worse all the time. Only 8% of the nations on earth are full democracies, a number that continues to fall because of the pessimism and stupidity promulgated by authoritarian regimes.
How the fuck made that chart that put USA on top of Brazil, here the president isn’t immune to prison just because he has money
The infographic was produced by a company called Visual Capitalist. Influence of money on the political process doesn’t factor into their calculations. Hell, it probably gives the score a boost.
Germany on “full democracy” at the same time it bans symbols of Palestinian support and uses the state’s violence to contain such manifestations.
Nobody’s perfect, and if you’re in Germany you should reach out to your politicians about it.
Protesting IS exactly that. Keep licking that boot.
I didn’t say not to protest.
In fact protesting is incredibly useful when the calls of many go unheard or ignored.
And having an effective protest is only possible if you can get a lot of people together, so it’s best to not shit on people from hello for saying exactly what you think is the “right” thing.
Not to mention having a large community of people reaching out before having to protest is also helpful, so doing good community building is also important.
Germany bans stuff al the time. It’s a consequence of our history and the historic leniency towards extremist edges. Your example is debatable in it’s execution, the general thought however is not.
Are you implying that this hasn’t also happened recently in the US?
??? I am allowed to fly the Palestinian flag, attend the marches, and say the chants whenever I want. The only thing we really cannot do in America is disrupt college campuses while classes are in session and riot. The three things I listed earlier are completely banned in Germany.
It was pro-Israel protesters that rioted and pro-Palestine/anti-genocide protesters that paid the price.
Are you implying two things can’t both be wrong?
I’d like to know your sources, because to my knowledge there is no such ban in Germany.
Oh look, it’s the Country the Map Maker Likes Index Map
Haha! Australia is a full democracy? What a joke!
Australia is America’s bitch. Even if our politicians gave a shit, they couldn’t do anything.
Another Russian shill. Damn this place is infested.
It must be very convenient to assume everyone to your left is a Russian shill. Means you don’t have to waste a single second thinking about what they have to say.
URUGUAY MENTIONED🇺🇾🇺🇾🇺🇾🇺🇾WHAT THE CRAP IS AN UNSTABLE COUNTRY
UK is a full democracy? That’s a fucking joke, literally all of this applies here. Including no-fault (read: spoke out against landlord or asked for repairs) evictions.
Technically, it isn’t clear if the crown could take back the rights given by them to parlaiment to govern the UK, but currently all decisions are handled by parlaiment including budget allotted to royals who are actually a net possitive from tourism.
For any Tankies in here, Tourism is a thing where people come from far away to share their resources in order to experience food and culture. China unfortunately is such an oppressive and bleak place that nobody wants to go there unless they have to or if they’re doing so accidentally by not realizing what happened to Hong Kong.
Are these tankies in the room with us right now? Fuck the CCP, but we’re talking about the west right now, stop trying to divert attention.
all decisions are handled by parlaiment
Who is backed by the undemocratic FPTP system, extremely pro-establishment press owned by capitalists waging open class war and a literal house of “lords” who have direct and legal legislative influence, not even lobbying. Imagine if Elon musk could reject legislation. Yeah, democratic af.
It’s a ruse you fell for, nothing more.
who are actually a net possitive from tourism.
Myth. Many countries do not have geriatrics riding around on golden thrones amidst record food bank use while having far more tourism than the UK, and I mean western European nations, not typical global south tourist destinations.
A reminder that the report button is not for ‘waaah I don’t like what you said’.
Cracks knuckles idly
My guess would be the crown can totally take those powers back, but then the monarchy would be quickly overthrown as their only accepted role these days is to look pretty, draw in tourism, and entertain foreign dignitaries.
China unfortunately is such an oppressive and bleak place that nobody wants to go there unless they have to or if they’re doing so accidentally by not realizing what happened to Hong Kong.
That’s counterfactual and undermines your argument, the amount of tourists from Japan, the US and EU alone is immense and I fear most of them know, but don’t give a shit about Hong Kong (though they really, really should).
Finland is also a fucking joke.
Reminds me of the time that Madventures bros were in India, talking to a local policeman, and said “Finland is said to be the least corrupt nation in the world” and the Indian policeman laughed so heartily into his moustache I almost fell off my chair.
You can do all of the shit mentioned in the post without getting the consequences.
“Finland is said to be the least corrupt nation in the world” and the Indian policeman laughed so heartily into his moustache
Which country did the policeman think was less corrupt if we rank so low in his opinion?
Which country did the policeman think was less corrupt if we rank so low in his opinion?
Youre genuinely asking me what some person I saw on TV thinks? How would I know? Even Professor X would have trouble reading someone’s mind through TV.
The point is the blind faith in that there’s no corruption, which is kept up by corruption.
I too used to think you we have just the most wonderful country. Then I grew up. You wouldn’t believe half the shit I can tell you about corruption in Finland, but here’s something at least you’ll find challenging to refute, as there’s supreme court documents on it.
https://www.hs.fi/suomi/art-2000009654524.html
That article is about me. I have the original video to prove it. And that’s basically the mildest offence they did that day, and it only saw consequences because I actually had the video. The video and photos the cops had of everything magically vanished when I wanted them to be brought to court.
Youre genuinely asking me what some person I saw on TV thinks? How would I know? Even Professor X would have trouble reading someone’s mind through TV.
I’m pointing how silly it was of him to laugh about it.
The point is the blind faith in that there’s no corruption, which is kept up by corruption.
It’s least corrupted country. It’s a comparative to other countries, always has been. If someone misunderstands that to mean that there’s no corruption then that’s on them.
Now I know you’re a Russian shill. What an insane claim.
Yeah. Must be.
Can’t be that you, an American, would be ignorant of what is going on in other countries. That would simply be unheard of. /s
Here’s some aftermath of my personal experience.
https://www.hs.fi/suomi/art-2000009654524.html
Obviously you’re gonna need to use a translator, as even though I can communicate in your language, you can’t do so in mine.
The only Russian shill spreading misinformation here is you, Ivan. Go back to Kamchatka.
You reported him based on him stating an opinion. I ought to ban you for making me click a button.
Simply: the “report” button is not for this function. I am a lazy and malicious mod. Don’t make me do work.
Russian disinformation bots do express opinions I guess, so you have a point.
I did browse his profile to see what you were getting at, and I couldn’t find anything supporting this claim. If you have examples, great - I am open-minded and willing to change a stance. I’m not, however, doing a deep dive into a Lemmy user’s past history. I don’t like virtual fishing expeditions, and found this kind of ‘gotcha-ism’ is what made Reddit so toxic.
Further, even if this person is moderately pro-russian, as long as they aren’t actively condoning the invasion of Ukraine, or actually spreading propaganda, that’s ok in my book. People are welcome to their opinions, and there many, many, shades of grey.
I’ll save you time. I’m Finnish, an NCO in the army reserves. I’ll DM you my sotilaspassi if you want to, lol.
He just simply doesn’t like me, and hasn’t the werewithall to actually compose an argument of any type. If you look at his profile, you’ll see it’s filled with “now I know you’re an X troll” comments. His lack of imagination is — as the kids say — cringe.
I’m in no way pro-Russian. I actually had a point in my comment. Something I can back up with legally documented personal experiences. I think he just simps Finland and doesn’t actually know what goes around here, so he leaves those asinine oneliners.
Jesus fuck this map is a joke.
“Western Countries good, everyone else bad” what a farce.
This infographic is produced by a capitalist propaganda network, Visual Capitalist, using data from a capitalist think tank, EIU (Economic Intelligence Unit). I would download the report and scrutinize their methodology but it requires you enter a ton of personal information.
If you think living in a non “western democracy” allows you to shit talk your boss or the government… I invite you to try.
I hope this won’t be banned for wishing death on someone.
I like the 1 comma in that whole paragraph…
Nothing infuriates me more than missing punctuation
.
At least they didn’t write “brand’s”, so there’s that.
Yeah totally should do that in an autocratic country, lets go with Russia and lets see how long it would take before the original poster is on their way to a Siberian gulag
If that is the bar we have to pass humanity isn’t doing too well now is it? I myself would like to hold a modern country to even a little bit higher standards.
Or in China, I’m sure they could at least say their concerns once before they’re social credit is shit and they get disappeared.
That’s the “in Africa kids are starving and you’re refusing to eat your broccoli” level of argument. Yes, it’s bad in Russia, but that doesn’t mean everything is perfect in their country. And that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t strive to make the situation better. Moreover, without any push back it can only get worse.
Whataboutism isn’t necessary
Fuck borders, everyone deserves freedom, not just people on my side of a line on the map
And they can vote for a better future. Last UK election we got a labour victory but 8% fewer people voted. Thats crazy.
Of topic, i agree with that, country borders are what making people xenophobic
Hey, my house has a lot things that need repaired. I should probably bring up these issues with my family, and get to work on fixing them.
Oh, the house down the road is on fire? Guess I should be fine my house is only falling into disrepair.
While I do see your point, I think the main idea behind this post is that we’re told that we live in civilized free western world, but once we rebel, speak ill or become in any way a ‘threat’ to people on top (while staying within the rules of society of course), that’s when you get punished for it.
Something I’ll give to autocratic countries is that even though you have no freedom, at least you’re fully aware of it. In western countries, you have some freedom but are led to believe you actually have more, if not full, freedom.
Except only the last point really has anything to do with the government. It’s freedom from government control, not freedom to do anything you want with no consequences.
You live in USA, stop comparing your shit democracy with the rest of us
I live in Europe and the whole post resonated hard with me. Not sure in which lala land you live in.
Not every european country is the same
- I found that on European platforms, you can speak anonymously and A LOT more candidly about topics censored on American ones, e.g. SH, nearly all “adult” topics covered in great detail, and what have you.
- My landlord would have a very hard time kicking me out for almost any reason, even if I turned the entire apartment into a swamp.
In fact, the only item from OP’s list that rings true to me is the boss one. They will always find a way of getting back to you, legal or not.
In Germany, there’s rent control which doesn’t get enforced because tenants are afraid (e.g. to be declined or thrown out) when they bring it up. Landlords are cancer.
Protest on the public sidewalk.
- The sidewalk is part of the street.
- The whole street is public property, not just the sidewalk.
- Except private streets but honestly I don’t respect those either and no one should.
I don’t know about you but where I live there are laws prohibiting blocking or standing in the street. I mean if you want to be arrested, go for it. The sidewalk is generally considered a traditional free speech venue.
Yeah that’s what we’re complaining about.
It’s not really possible to have a large protest on just the sidewalk.
You could fill all of the sidewalks? Blocking roads doesn’t make allies. Where I live there is no other way to get to work or the hospital or the store. We don’t even have sidewalks lol. We have to protest from the ditch, at least that’s our public easement.
You could always speak out against your landlord or boss to a person you can trust not to tell them. Social media is a public forum. It’s the equivalent of taking out an ad in the paper to criticize them. It’s your responsibility to represent yourself as you’d like to be seen by the general public when using an account with your name and photo.
coercive relationships are the root of evil
What exactly are you telling your boss that’s getting you fired? Most supervisors I’ve ever had would take authentic feedback really well. Are you just unloading emotions at them?
Your lease is based on a contract, your landlord can’t evict you for “speaking out” about them unless it says so in your lease, which standard leases do not.
And wtf are you saying online that gets you “muted or banned?” People say all kinds of shit online, wtf are you talking about
Breakfast cereal is ridiculously overpriced and is not food. The only reason you should ever go down that aisle is if you want oatmeal.
You’re actually an idiot, I was fired a month ago for complaining amongst the company about their inoffice policy. Got a good severance, but they absolutely fired me for speaking my opinion
That’s what they wrote on your paperwork?
“Reason for termination: spoke their mind”
GTFO out of here lmao
More likely you reacted to a super like you have in this comment thread; like an insolent child. Sorry you got checked.
I did this too and I didn’t get fired. May be it depends on the wording?
And how much, and how many people, and how much of a distraction… sometimes its worth just paying us off. I mean it isnt like they want it to get out of hand
By “complaining amongst the company” do you mean complaining to your coworkers about your company? If so, how did anyone with the power to fire you find out about it? And what exactly did you say?
If you led with “They’re actually idiots,” I have bad news for you
What? You’re an idiot because most companies retain the right to tell you to get off the property. They give you enough “strikes”, it doesn’t matter what you do. Also why they give severance, so I don’t try and make a deal about employment or “rights”.
What?
By “complaining amongst the company” do you mean complaining to your coworkers about your company? If so, how did anyone with the power to fire you find out about it? And what exactly did you say?
I’ve provided more than enough information. It’s what happened dude. I wasn’t some floor worker. I was effectively at Director level. They don’t take kindly to consistently bending the company’s will, and you push back too many times they tell you to get lost
There’s a serious difference between providing authentic feedback to your supervisor and complaining to your colleagues/subordinates or “bending the company’s will”
Damn you’ve been really fucking lucky with supervisors then
Stop it, reality has no power here.
Here we worship the unyielding God of manufactured outrage.
We don’t want to hear about the fact this meme is braindead worm food.
Sounds like Venezuela and socialism, only difference is that leftism there destroyed the opportunity to have multiple cereal brands.
More like: I am so happy I live in america.
Everywhere else you have job protection and renters protection
You’re kinda right, but the law at least in the UK still has no fault evictions, and the legislation proposed to get around that doesn’t penalise made/bad “faults”. Same with jobs, it’s easy enough to manufacture an excuse
Also, lots of state and local governments in the US have strong renter protections.
