I’ve been thinking about martial arts and how really it is useful these days since a lot of places will have criminals hiding firearms or in the U.S. some states have conceal carry.
Whilst it contains discipline and it is enjoyable to train in a club for, say Karate, I just think it might not be that useful in places where firearms are commonly held, all it really takes is for someone to take safety off, aim, pew pew and that’s it.
I suppose I probably get this thinking from kung fu where it’s seen more of an art form then actually being a serious bone breaking form of combat
This is a difficult question.
If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.
As far as which martial art you should take, if you’re going to take one… It depends on what you want. If you want a physical activity that doesn’t have to be practical, then take up something like kyudo, kenjutsu, or aikido. If you want something that’s practical, then look into juijitsu and things based more in grappling. If you seriously worry about getting into a confrontation with someone that’s armed, then look up Shiv Works, and see what they have in your area.
A concealed carry permit can be useful, yes, but it’s very, very situational, and requires practice. Moreover, ever single bullet you fire outside of a range has to be accounted for.
I second Cabbage. RUNNING will more reliably save your life than any amount of combat training. But also, situational awareness. Most incidents can be easily avoided simply by paying attention to what’s around you and not putting yourself in that sketchy situation to begin with.
If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.
NO.*
competition martial arts have rules. Rules that you abide by and train to follow. and inevetibably, training to fight inside these rules will invariably leave you open to certain kinds of attack, and to miss exploiting openings in the other guy. Yes. This includes MMA. You can tell that people in MMA follow these rules because nobody is biting the other dude’s balls off. or twisting them off, or generally kicking to the groin. (groin strikes were originally allowed, but then banned in UFC, for example. Too many crushed testes)
and for the record, if it’s you or them… yeah. get nibbly. You also don’t see people snapping necks or stomping skulls after a toss. It’s very rare for any kind of combat sport organization to allow things that will, you know, kill their competitors.
If you want to train for self defense… train for self defense.
*Disclaimer: Muay Thai wasn’t always a competition thing. the OG Muay Thai will absolutely fuck an asshole up. most martial arts were originally military training, and if you can get training on THAT, yeah, that’ll be fine. in the US, you’re never gonna see that, though.
Again. just to reiterate. You’re best off not getting in the situation, and that’s best avoided by maintaining awareness of what’s around you. You’re second-best off running the fuck away. Constructive Cowardice is nothing to be ashamed of- it will save your life. but, if it comes to it, and it’s you or them, don’t fight fair. Fair is how you die.
A bouncer isn’t usually going to be fighting to survive; they’re throwing some dude the fuck out of a venue, or subduing them until cops show up.
As far as my comment about Shiv Works - I stand by that 100%. Look them up. They train with bare hands, knives, and guns (firing non-lethal training munitions), and in awkward spaces (such as you might experience in a car jacking).
Any discipline that forces you to act while under pressure is going to improve your odds if you end up in a situation where fighting is your only real option. If you get sucked-punched on a subway, experience in e.g. boxing is going to be far, far better than nothing at all, despite the fact that boxing has rules. IDPA/USPSA will not, contrary to claims, get you kilt in da streets, because practice moving and shooting is better than not.
The idea that there’s a real distinction between self-defense and martial arts in general is nonsense. If you’re good in MMA, this is going to translate almost 1:1 to self defense. Here’s the blunt truth: most of the people that are going to attack a person have a LOT of experience fighting. If you want to defend yourself, you’re going to need to give yourself a lot of the same experiences, even if it’s in a more controlled setting, and “self-defense” classes aren’t going to do that.
And, BTW, I know a guy that teaches wu shu (Eagle Claw, I think?) that also works as a bouncer. He is very, very effective, and uses the things he teaches as a bouncer. He’s small–like, 5’5", 150#–and he punches well above his weight.
So, Road House isn’t realistic. bouncers (and security guards in general,) have already lost once they go hands on.
And yes, you bet your ass they’re fighting to survive.
Nobody fucks around when one mistake sends you to the ER or worse, fucking dead. Every time you go hands on, there’s always a chance some one pulls a knife or gun and ends you, maybe also everyone around you.
By the time you’re in a fight, you’ve lost control, you’ve already lost. Bouncers and guards are generally not armed in any capacity and rely instead on soft skills to descalate, and again, reacting before it gets to that point.
Further, that’s not self defense. the most useful self defense skill you can have is paying attention and not getting into a situation. The second most useful self defense skill is running away.
Uh. I know a whole bunch of people that have bounced at multiple clubs in Chicago. I know one guy that was loss prevention at a store in Chicago that used to love chasing people down, because he enjoys that shit.
Tell yourself that if you want to, but the truth is that bouncers are going to have to know how to fight to at least some degree, because they’re going to end up in fights.
Not like against a bear, mountain lion, or gorilla no
I begun judo a few weeks ago. The teacher was clear: it may not be useful in actual fight, but we don’t fight often in.the real life. But it’s great for.your body, spirit and it will teach you how to fall without hurting you. And these things are way more useful than self defense.
I got up to judo brown belt as a teen and it has saved my ass countless times. Not in fights, but in silly ass falls. Having good instincts when falling is a lifesaver.
I had a few bike crashes: 2 times breaking the same collarbone + some head trauma. All of it could have been avoided by knowing how to fall, head first is bad, elbow first is bad and also chin first is bad. After learning how to fall I should also learn how to use a bike maybe 😅
All of it could have been avoided by knowing how to fall
That is so damn true.
I’m a downhill biker but I learned a bunch of combatives in the army so I know how to fall really well. My friends are always surprised when I walk away from a crash that should have broken something and all I have is a scratch on my shoulder.
My secret is just go limp. Tensing up is when you hurt yourself in a fall.
Gods yes. Just the falls I’ve taken since becoming disabled that I prevented injury because I know how to fall safely would make the time spent training worth it.
The best physical training I ever had were: judo and working in the dish room of my college dining hall where the floor was always wet and slimy with food. Between the two of them, I never slipped again. When I saw an ice covered stairway or slope, I could go shooting down it with confidence I’d stay on my feet. Between the slippery floor while carrying breakables and knowing how to fall, falling was just not an issue.
Of course now I want me some of that “youth” back
If you have a history of getting into fights, then yes it’s useful. Otherwise you’ll basically never use it. However there are plenty of benefits even if you never use it.
- Strength
- Flexibility
- Knowing that you’re going to get hurt even if you win the fight
- Etc
Exactly. Martial arts will make you live longer, not because you can kick ass in a fight, but because it is generally a great way to maintain cardiovascular health.
If need to train for an unarmed fight, I’d personally suggest the 400m sprint.
What is the “meme” of the 400m sprint (best MA discipline btw), I’ve seen it popping up everywhere the past couple of weeks haha
If you want something that could actually be useful in real-life situations, pick up running.
The science on how humans survived through some seriously apex predators tags this as the reason. We evolved to run, the Usain Bolts of the world not being rare back in the day, which is why we are even here, and now we’ve de-volved into a sedentary society where Usain Bolt is the only one.
Usain Bolt was faster than the hundreds of billions of people that came before him. He set a world record that still hasn’t been broken.
It was never about our speed, it was about our endurance and persistence. There’s no point in history where we were the fastest creature in the local food chain, a deer or Buffalo was going to sprint faster than us, but when they had to stop to cool off or recover from the fast burn of energy, we were right there, right behind them, still coming.
It’s true we’re more like the T1000 from T2 than usain bolt. Iirc our endurance on land is unsurpassed by any other mammal
Small technical error, you’re supposed to yell as you do that.
Can’t stop laughing
You should see a doctor about that.
Lmao
“Doc, he’s still going!”
“If he keeps it up at this rate, his as will fall off entirely!”
The board breaking is just a small grift to increase your confidence. When you start out the person holding the board does most of the work to break the board. It’s several belts before the board start getting thick enough to put up a fight. All those boards are cut across the grain leaving short fibers that are able to snap.
You are training to dodge and block, Even redirect your opponent and use their actions against them. That’s not nothing. A lot of places will tack on a little disarmament and self-defense or run a class with that is the primary goal, But honestly you don’t want to use martial arts to try to take on someone with a gun or a knife unless it is absolutely necessary because there’s a high chance you’re going to get got.
Combat training is extremely useful, even play combat training, It puts you in a situation and has you react a certain way taking out some of the uncertainty and worry out of the situation. You start planning instead of reacting. But for the most part if somebody is threatening you with a gun or a knife you’re better off not trying to take it off of them and beat them up.
It’s pretty useful for looking cool.
I have done quite a few martial arts. Anyone who tells you you can learn X and fight against someone who is armed (knife or gun) is simply spouting B.S.
If someone pulls out a gun on you, give that person what he wants and pray you are not going to end up shot anyway.
If someone pulls out a knife on you, do the same. Don’t play hero, especially if the guy holding the knife seems to know what he is doing.
Martial arts are just a way to train your body and your mind, both trainings are valuable in and out of themselves. They will keep you calm in a tense situation, they may even save your life since no one wants to mess with a dude that keeps his cool. Ultimately, a street fight can be avoided just by looking calm and composed.
If someone pulls out a knife on you, do the same.
I know what you mean here, but the phrasing is hilarious out of context.
Always bring a knife to a knife fight
But if you have a tank, use it instead.
Op is Australian:
I’m no expert, but I think basically unless it’s a one on one with someone who’s unarmed, and maybe inexperienced, it won’t help much. Every good instructor would tell you to give them what they want, or maybe run away if they only have a knife.
Carry a knife.
Yes, but not for what you may think. Ritualized shouting and flailing is cathartic and great cardio. And when you’re doing it in a regular group, you don’t look as dorky (see: Line Dancing) and peer pressure will influence you to stick with it – and that’s the biggest failure mode of any workout plan.
Also, stretching is neat. Sometimes there’s meditation. Always there’s making noise and angry faces.
Somewhere, in there, you may learn two things: how to dodge something coming at you; and that you should always try to flee if you can, flee if you almost can, or negatively reinforce the person hurting you until they stop and then you can flee. The cardio helps with the fleeing.
And I can’t under-state the utility in fleeing. I’ve done the hi-ya, twirled a stick, played shooty-pow-pow and rat-a-tat; and, still, fleeing is the option with the best outcome.
This. Anyone actually seasoned in martial arts will back this up. Exceptions to the his are trying to sell something.
It’s incredibly useful for fitness and overall health. It’s also very useful for self defense. You will get hit way harder in the dojo than you ever will on the street, and learning to take a punch is a big part of fighting. I trained in martial arts for several years when I was younger. One time at a punk concert someone twice my size took a swing at my face, and I slipped the punch and knocked him out before I even realized I was in a fight. The training works. It’s also great for self-confidence. Lastly, guns aren’t as prevalent as you think they are.
Edit: if you want the training to be more about actual self defense and less about fitness and art, then be sure to pick a style that focuses on combat. Jeet Kun Do, MMA school, Brazilian Jujitsu, Kick Boxing, Western Boxing, and Western Wrestling are all very applicable in real fights. Shotokan Karate is okay in most fights, and better than ground focused styles like BJJ, wrestling, or MMA, against multiple opponents, but less effective against a single opponent. Although, you should really try running first if you have to fight multiple people at once, unless you’re a badass through and through. I watched my 2nd degree Shotokan black belt friend knock 3 dudes out once in the span of about 2 seconds, but he has trained since he was like 6 years old and is a multiple time champion fighter. Most people can’t do that.
I’m not certain, given your use case. As someone with a deep passion for martial arts (judo > Jiu Jitsu > Aikido > Tai Chi), I would say while they can be useful in certain situations (even tai chi chuan, which is certainly the most inner one). Self defense classes with actual teaching about fighting a guy with a knife/gun would be more suited, maybe.
Various militaries will train soldiers in some form of close quarters combat. All of them will say the best this training will do is buy time for someone with a weapon to come in and finish the job.
It taught me meditation and self-control. It made exercise desirable as an activity.
But for self-defense, many martial arts do teach techniques for disarming opponents. The range within a gun loses effectiveness against a trained, unarmed opponent is actually larger than you think. Not to mention that muggers tend to avoid “harder” marks like those in good shape or who move like fighters.
who move like fighters.
This is a big one. People who know how to fight can pretty easily identify other people who know how to fight. Just knowing how to fight will keep you out of a lot of fights.
