I have been using Logitech peripherals for years. Logitech gear always just worked.
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased. WTF?
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
What are the good options?
Also, if anybody sees how these changes could be benign, please let me know.
EDIT:
By popular demand:
The keyboard I bought that started this journey: MX Keys S
The key feature that first demanded cloud access: Swithing between computers, now it is requires it to adjust the receivers. I have both a Bolt and a Unifying receiver.
Mouse (actually a trackball) that now is requesting that I use a Chrome Browser to adjust it: M570
Software:
The Logi SetPoint Settings I open from Windows now requires you to log into your Logitech account to make changes to your Unifying or 2.4 ghz usb receiver. This link takes you to a screen that says Logi Web Connect. It does not work unless you use the latest version of Chrome, Edge, & Opera, but reccomends Chrome for the best experience.
Logitech + used to require this to enable options, but I don’t see it on my Windows computer anymore. It is still on my Mac, but upon opening it to confirm for this message, it seems to be announcing that it is now able to incorporate AI into everything I type. (ugggh)
Keyboard wise? At this point, prices have dropped enough that there is no real reason to go to one of the major manufacturers for anything that isn’t disposable. And basically “all” of the smaller batch mechanical keyboards are dependent on QMK or VIA to some degree which means you can customize them on any machine that can run chrome.
For the logitech price point/build quality? Unless you know why you don’t want one, you can’t go wrong with a Keychron (https://www.keychron.com/). The price and build quality isn’t “the best” but it is very much on par with the logitechs and razers of the world and they are perfect for someone who just wants “a keyboard that works” or someone who wants to learn what they ACTUALLY want out of a keyboard.
Mouse wise? There are an increasing number of “third parties” but… they basically all suck unless you are going to go crazy and mod them. And while I think the firmware matters less in these cases, there are an increasing number of qmk/via mice but… they mostly feel “cheap” or like they are just proving the viability. I have a friend with a ploopy but even he doesn’t really recommend it. So… you are still more or less suck with logitech and razer and the like for that. But hopefully as those companies lock their hardware down more it will lead to something in between “here is a cheap no name ergonomic mouse” and “here is a five hundred dollar mouse”.
The Keychron K2 and K6 both look solid. Starting at $70 for a Bluetooth/wired mechanical keyboard, RGB backlighting, extra keycaps for Macs / OS toggles… there’s even a hot swappable variant for $10 more (or heck, on sale for $70), option for an aluminum frame… shame they don’t run on QMK.
Oh - turns out they have several keyboards that do run QMK/VIA, like the K6 Pro.
If I used staggered keyboards for anything other than gaming, or if I didn’t already have a wireless gaming keyboard, I’d be considering one.
to add to the subject of gaming, i personally do not recommend using a keychron for gaming. the latency, at least the one i’m on (keychron C1) is quite a noticeable downgrade from the logitech keyboard i switched from, though at least it feels and sounds miles better than the logitech.
as a disclaimer, i am very sensitive to that latency since i’m a modern tetris player. it’s also way less noticeable in shooters and other 3D action games, so i guess for most people it’s fine?
for a gaming keyboard from a non-shitty company, you can’t get much better than a wooting.
Keychron’s relationship with QMK is a touch fraught. If they claim a wireless board supports QMK, it only truly supports it in wired mode. In wireless mode, they’re either using a secondary MCU or an off-license fork of QMK, as the mainline doesn’t support wireless for licensing reasons.
Out of curiosity, what is your non-gaming keyboard? Lot’s of fun stuff over at !ergomechkeyboards@lemmy.world
Yeah. Keychrons are kind of a clusterfuck because they release like five limited runs every month. But… basically all of those are the same feature sets but might have slightly different internals based on whatever they bought in bulk the previous month. It DOES make figuring out what to buy kind of annoying but… logitech and razer have been doing that for years anyway.
Woah, can you elaborate on this please? I haven’t heard of this, and we use a lot of these devices at work. Which devices are affected? What’s the software/chrome thing?
It’s probably going to a web interface for RGB and maybe mouse sensitivity instead of special software.
Not sure why it would require Chrome to do so, but that doesn’t mean it’s constantly talking to Chrome when you use it either.
It doesn’t seem like we’re getting all the information
I first noticed the requirement to make adjustments via the cloud when I bough new keyboards that could easily switch between different computers. They use the new BOLT rather than he old Unifying Receiver. I wrote it off as a lazy way to do that feature, but OK. It was not the main reason that I purchased the keyboards, but it was one of the reasons, but I can live without it.
I was using the keyboards without the account.
Then it got too cumbersome and I established the account.
Today, I tried to adjust the settings of one of my mice which still uses the unifying receiver. It took me to the account somehow. But it would not let me log into the account and make the changes because I am not using the latest version of Chrome (I was using Firefox). (Note it did not say a Chromium browser, but rather the Google owned product).
I don’t see how any of this requires communication with a cloud server.
What’s the name of the software? Is this Logic Options +?
I added details to the OP
It sounds like setpoint is a pretty old software. Can you use Logi Options+? I was able to install that one and skip the login step.
Could you remap the keys with AHK?
Personally I would just avoid Logitech. I have noticed their stuff mysteriously breaks every 2-3 years and I have to replace it. It’s like planned obsolescence with them.
It can be frustrating finding a good alternative brand. I’m always on the hunt for one. I’ve had a Das Keyboard for a long time now, and it’s fantastic. My wireless mouse is a Tecknet. It’s not great but it’s pretty good. If there’s a Best Buy close to you it may be worth your time to go there and test drive some peripherals.
I’ve had much the opposite experience, in my case coming from using a variety of Razer peripherals and having them all die early deaths, and then Razer themselves to be completely useless in regards to support even well within their warranty period. I gave up and switched to basically all Logitech stuff, which has been flawless for me for many many years.
If everything from all major brands is going to require Yet Another Fucking Account (thus far Logitech does not appear to, or at least not the stuff from them I have) I will just be forced to switch to buying generic brandless Chinese garbage and deal with replacing it regularly. Generic Chinese crap never has an app or an account requirement.
I don’t think I’ve ever had any Razer stuff. I’ve had terrible luck with Logitech, but if you’ve had good luck with it, I can understand why you might want to stay with it. AFAIK Logitech periphs should “just work” with a PC, Mac Linux, or other GNU-Linux box. But yeah…wouldn’t surprise me if they try to force the cloud issue and/or want a subscription in the future.
Thus far all of my Logitech devices are in the “just works” category, but admittedly none of them are brand new. The most recent is the M510 mouse I use on my office PC. Maybe their newer stuff is all bullshit now; I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn if it were.
If so, it makes me more motivated to finally get around to ordering a new microswitch for the left-clicker on my old Mx518 mouse.
Recently I had to replace my mouse, bought a G502. The mouse itself is a solid quality mouse. But then, three months in, the USB cord split the covering plastic and exposed the wires, right at the connector. I chose it wired specifically to use with a desktop computer that doesn’t move anywhere. It was meant to be a stationary mouse, I plugged it once, then never unplugged it again. Then one day while dusting the case I noticed the damage. Nobody touches this computer but me. The only explanation is that it came faulty from the factory and just a little heat from the case made the plastic open. I honestly didn’t want to bother with having it replaced, just sealed it with shrink wrap and moved on. But I won’t ever be buying another Logitech product.
My G305 mouse, G322 headset and G432 headset have all served me well for far more than 2 years.
My G503 mouse works, but some features that used to be part of the mouse are now walled behind a Windows app. The mouse mouses just fine, though.
EDIT I see OP had bad experiences with this brand specifically. Disregard my opinions, I’m sorry I missed that part.
Haven’t looked at their newer stuff so it’s possible they are enshittifying too, but Das Keyboard has been a reliable low-frills brand for me for years (get one with blank keys if you really want to hone your touch typing skills!)
Don’t have any suggestions on mice. I’m using a Razer
dont buy crappy products. Some companies are simply too malicious and should be avoided. Advise others to do the same and it might even have some impact.
I use hyperx alloy core keyboard as I don’t actually need programmable keys or an LCD. RGB and media keys are as far as I go.
The way forward is to stop looking at those as “features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased” and consider them as “unlockables” where you have to pay again by handing over your personal info. Then stop buying their stuff, because it’s absurd to have to pay twice.
I prefer my keyboards and mice as dumb as possible. Preferably with cables, so I never have to worry about charging them.
stop looking at those as “features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased”
Seriously.
Maybe I’m an old timer but my idea of extra features on a mouse or keyboard are simply more inputs: more mouse buttons or wheels, more keys on a keyboard (like media keys). At most that just requires additional hardware, but nothing my OS can’t handle on its own.
What are some good dumb brands yall could recommend for keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals?
I’ve been using a Dell keyboard I got at goodwill for $4. It’s great.
Logitech.
G305 for a “standard” mouse
MX Vertical for a vertical mouse
Both are wireless with a dedicated dongle and run off AA batteries. I hope that’s acceptable.G332 or G432 for a headset with decent sound and mic (that even works well over hearing aides)
Keyboard? I dunno, I went with a Das Keyboard Ultimate 4, I love my clickity clacky but it’s not a cheap recommendation
They’ve all served me well for 6 or more years with the exception of the MX Vertical (2 years so far) and are all still spotless. None show any sign of wear or tear and do their job well.
EDIT I see OP had bad experiences specifically with this brand. I’m sorry to see that, disregard my opinions, OP.
Anker has a nice “vertical” mouse that has a wired variant. For keyboards I usually just check for an obscure Chinese brand
I used to love Anker, but after the performance of their MagSafe batteries and recent recall, I’m hesitant to recommend them anymore 🤷
That’s fair.
Ducky Keyboards are pretty good (but ex)
Gamestop seems to be releasing competitive options right now.
I love Zowie mice because their shapes are incredible and they’re built like tanks. One of mine is 15 years old and I still use it for work.
I use a Logitech mouse and do not have the problems you are talking about.
Yeah, I’d like to know the specifics, too. My Logi mouse still uses the same application (although they did update terms recently) and while they’ve added some AI shovelware to it the mouse stil remembers its shortcuts with that thing off and I haven’t noticed any changes to how the application is put together.
It’s entirely possible the application is a Chromium-based browser thing, but in any case it still doesn’t require a login (although it does support one) and it will run offline.
Don’t get me wrong, Logi’s approach to this, along with a lot of other hardware manufacturers, sucks really bad. I do appreciate Microsoft, of all people, recently starting to standardize RGB controls, at least. It’s still wonky and interacts weirdly with some third party software, but it’s a start. I don’t need twenty different apps to keep glowy lights and saved shortcuts going.
I added details to the OP
Oh, cool. My current device uses Logitech Options+, which is not the same as the old G Hub and is not the same as what you’re describing.
Which honestly, before we get into the mandatory login and everything else, begs the question… why does Logitech need three different multi-device software hubs? What the hell?
It’s not (just) that manufacturers are trying to mine all this bloatware for data, it’s that most of them are absolutely terrible at making software in the first place.
Me either. I have a G502 and I have the G Hub app to control the features(DPI, button assignments, RGB), but I’ve never needed an account to use it.
I use my 602 (the wireless one) on linux with an open-source mouse app called Piper. Does everything GHub can do - at least as far as my needs go.
Okay lemme check this out and see if this can replace my black tape.
Good luck, my friend!
Good recommendation.
I’d be stuck in the ASUS ROG bloatware environment with BSODs were it not for G Hub! Great app.
You need to share some context for that statement lol. What are you talking about?
My G503 started requiring the Windows app to set any other RGB than rainbow patterns.
I had it set to off, it used to store on the mouse, now I need to install and run Windows to have it not flashbang me.
I used black tape. I don’t recommend this dumb thing to anyone, anymore.
That is still an option, but there is a tradeoff. There is a button in the software to enable on-board memory mode.
You lose all your key assignment controls and fine-tuned DPI settings, but it stores on the device. If you want to have those features available, the mouse needs some software on the PC to talk to for more fine-grained control.
That’s the thing, I used to be able to set profiles, set what the buttons do as well as the DPI in each profile and their colour, and it used to store in memory.
They removed it. You need this application for it, now. Or think it makes sense all of this can’t be stored in memory. Point is still that the only colour setting without this is bright rainbow patterns.
It may be possible it has features you don’t know about that are only enabled with the software. I have a Logitech mouse but only download the software because there was a macro fix for a broken clicker.
I assume you’re talking about the Unifying feature.
I’ve got no direct experience, but there are a few people who say that despite Firefox not being listed as supported, it works fine.
https://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=14961275
As for the spying, I can see how that could be a concern, but I don’t think it’s too likely.
For convenience, I’m guessing they’re using a web interface to the settings in the same way that your router does. They’ve made a Chrome plugin, so that’s probably the route they want you to take because they know it works.
Logitech is a global brand, an they’d get into a lot of trouble in a lot of countries if they were gathering keypress data etc.
Thanks for the comment
For convenience, I’m guessing they’re using a web interface to the settings in the same way that your router does. They’ve made a Chrome plugin, so that’s probably the route they want you to take because they know it works.
Thanks based on your comment I reloaded and checked it. It is pointing to logiwebconnect.com. That does not appear to be a web front end. I do not see a way around the browser not supported page to try it on Firefox.
The CEO already talked about, and then walked back after backlash, a subscription mouse. Sounds like they’re going forward without saying anything this time.
@RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world time to drop all Logitech gear and never buy from them again.
Logitech devices do not need such drivers under Linux…
Really?
My Logitech mice won’t work, at all under Linux unless I go find a third party software to make them work.
While under Windows they just work, even without the Logitech config software.
Never encountered a Logitech mouse or keyboard that didn’t work out of the box with Linux.
Then what you bought is not a mouse, it’s a proprietary peripheral that emulates a mouse when you install its propretary drivers.
Short fix is to dump Logitech, long term fix is to install Linux and still dump logitech
I hate this so much.
My hp printer doesn’t do shit, if I’m not online and logged in to my hp account. For what if not for collecting datathey have no business collecting.No advice, just shared frustration.
Get a Brother printer, my brother.
Be careful of printers with chipped toner though. Older models still rock.
That’s the plan. Unfortunately I wasn’t in a situation to say no or be picky when my dad offered to buy me a new printer.
Simple answer is stop buying products that require OEM software to function or an app.
Keyboards with QMK/VIA support are open and configurable on nearly any OS and for nearly any OS.
Some mice are even QMK/VIA enabled.
Mice are harder so checking for openrgb support is a good idea as well as mice that can be configured and operated without software.
Are there any good resources for qmk/via mice? Mostly can only find a few that feel like they are, at best, proof of concepts and more likely just outright predatory scams to cash in on people who want to spend money.
Ploopy mice are a real thing and run QMK. I have their Classic trackball and it’s an absolute beast
+1 for Ploopy mice. I have the Ploopy Adept, and I’ll never go back to another mouse. They mostly make trackballs, but they do have a “regular” mouse if trackballs aren’t your thing.
The biggest problem with Ploopy is that they only seem to make mice for people with bigger hands, so if that’s not you, you’re kind of screwed :/
This was posted on Lemmy a month or so back so i’m betting these are baby steps in that direction.
Sounds about right. If he did forego the subscription revenue, that does not mean he won’t try to monitize our useage data.
It’s unfortunate, really, but there’s only 1 good answer: vote with your wallet.
Research before buying and be thorough. There are companies that don’t do this yet and you could build your own peripherals, there’s some nice DIY kits out there.
Just don’t buy this crap. IMO the only way this’ll change is if it hurts them where they feel it.
