This is an excellent article by Cathy Young, exposing some of the widespread misandry within feminism.
I don’t agree with every point she makes. I think the 1848 demonizing of men is way more serious and shouldn’t be so easily dismissed. But that doesn’t take away from her main point: feminism is full of misandry, and if they want to be taken seriously by men, they need to address that.
I agree she made a lot of good points.
It just gives me a certain ugly feeling to see her go through all that misandric behavior and still be defending feminism.
A lot like how I imagine I’d feel watching a racist/kkk member explain to other racists that being discriminatory is bad, mmmkay.
Like, I don’t disagree with her assessment of the misandry, it’s just not giving the “look we care about men” image I think she wanted
It’s more “men face bigotry from women, women most affected”
Some of the comments in the “Please don’t let this turn into an anti-feminist, misogynistic, right-wing, tribal community” post reminded me of just how overwhelmingly biased against men feminism is, and how desperate feminists are to keep it that way.
I’m an American with some German roots, and I joined a local German club for the food events and the beer. The thing is, the average age of members in my German club is over 65. The older members had things the way they wanted and didn’t want to change to attract new members. Consequently we now have a club that can’t field enough able-bodied volunteers to do much of anything. They have driven themselves into a dead end, and it’s hard to feel sorry for them. Feminism seems to be taking the same strategy.
Except feminism is not biased against men as individuals, it does not even deal with individuals rather it addresses systemic problems.
feminism is not biased against men as individuals
Oh great! It’s just biased against us as a gender.
You know, that’s still sexism.
It’s biased against a power system where one gender holds most power. If you feel like you are target by that - maybe it’s not because you are a man.
Feminism habitually demonizes men, not the powerful. Their boogeyman is called after fathers, not the few people who actually rule and have power. They call masculinity (the characteristics of a gender) toxic. It is misandrist to the core.
How is feminism demonizes men? Curios, since I’m a men and never felt demonized by feminism.
They call masculinity (the characteristics of a gender) toxic
Dude, they don’t call masculinity toxic - they say that masculinity has toxic elements. How can you not get such a simple distinction?
is misandrist to the core.
It’s not.
How can you not see the evidence that is staring you in the face?
Curios, since I’m a men and never felt demonized by feminism.
That says more about you than about feminism…
Dude, they don’t call masculinity toxic
They do. They always talk about toxic masculinity, never any other kind. Does that not strike you as intentional?
And you can deny its misandry, but it is obvious to us.
I could link you some resources, but I’m not sure if you’re willing to read them and let them challenge your views.
- https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/tbi4p7/how_has_feminism_harmed_men/
- https://www.reddit.com/user/lightning_palm/comments/t9dho8/toxic_effects_of_feminism_on_our_culture/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/3fyx2f/feminism_is_not_for_me_summary_of_my_thoughts_on/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/f19yrr/examining_patriarchy_theory/
And a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY
And that’s just the beginning of the rabbit hole.
That says more about you than about feminism…
What does it say about me?
toxic masculinity
Exactly - there is masculinity and toxic masculinity. How don’t you get that simple distinction? They are not the same. Feminism is criticizing toxic masculinity not masculinity as a whole.
I could link you some resources, but I’m not sure if you’re willing to read them and let them challenge your views.
What exactly should I do with random raddit posts and a tedX talk? If you have arguments bring them here and let’s discuss.
The effects of feminism are clearly biased against men. Telling me it isn’t personal doesn’t change the problem. Feminism can either re-evaluate what it wants to be, or it can take the heat for its biases.
The effects of feminism are clearly biased against men.
Not sure what you mean? They are “biased” in the sense that the societal structures favored men and feminism challenged that. But that is also the whole point.
I think you would have to convince me that “societal structures” do in fact favor men. I don’t think they do.
I am a father, my daughter has never been turned away from an educational opportunity for being female, my son has been turned away from several classes and trips. Men get higher prison sentences than women for the same crimes. Women get preferential placement and additional resources in education and employment if it is believed that women are under represented, but men rarely get any benefit if men are under represented. Men are under represented in higher education enrollment, no body much cares until it’s time to write a “where are the good men at” article. Men pay more in taxes and receive fewer benefits from government services than women. Men in the US have to sign up for selective service, women do not. As a man I would not feel safe calling the police if I was attacked by a woman, the police are more likely to arrest/assault me than my assailant.
When given the chance to make things equal, feminism choses to pursue advocacy for women instead. You can’t get to equal like that, and we aren’t.
I think you would have to convince me that “societal structures” do in fact favor men. I don’t think they do.
You would kind of have first to look at societal structures when feminism came up. Those obviously changed dramatically (at least in the west) but so did feminism.
my son has been turned away from several classes and trips.
Sounds wild to me, living in Germany.
Men get higher prison sentences than women for the same crimes.
How exactly is feminism responsible for that?
Women get preferential placement and additional resources in education and employment if it is believed that women are under represented,
Which is bad because?
Men are under represented in higher education enrollment
Due to systematic discrimination or because they chose other opportunities?
Men pay more in taxes
Why do men pay more taxes, is it an US thing - definitely not the case in Germany for example.
and receive fewer benefits from government services than women.
Again how would this be related to feminism. Are feminist running USA? Trump? Joe Biden? For real?!
Men in the US have to sign up for selective service, women do not. As a man I would not feel safe calling the police if I was attacked by a woman, the police are more likely to arrest/assault me than my assailant.
You literally describe how patriarchy is negatively affecting men. Which is also criticized by feminism. Maybe you need to read a bit.
You would kind of have first to look at societal structures when feminism came up.
Why punish me and my son for a situation I had no benefit from?
Those obviously changed dramatically (at least in the west) but so did feminism.
I haven’t seen seen feminism change in a progressive/good way. If anything, contemporary feminism is doubling down on demonizing men and insisting on yet more special benefits for women.
How exactly is feminism responsible for that?
Feminists are still actively fighting for lower penalties for women while ignoring the plight of incarcerated men. Scotland is trying to get rid of women’s prisons entirely. Women get sympathy, men get the stick.
Due to systematic discrimination or because they chose other opportunities?
You don’t know what the reason is, and no one much cares. When men outnumbered women, changes were made. Now that women outnumber men, you stopped caring. Ta da, feminism!
Why do men pay more taxes, is it an US thing - definitely not the case in Germany for example.
Men almost certainly pay more in taxes in Germany, they earn more because of social expectations to. And while you probably don’t consider that an issue, I think it highlights the fact that more is expected from men but more is provided to women, and I’m not sure why. Male suicide and homelessness is are major current issues, funding and interest can’t be found to engage the way society does when women’s issues are in play.
Again how would this be related to feminism. Are feminist running USA? Trump? Joe Biden? For real?!
The people running the country have little reason to consider the plight of men, because the voters don’t care. But providing benefits to women is an easy way to appeal for votes. The US is especially wonky because of the two party system, but the issue is probably endemic everywhere. Instead of asking me if feminism did it, can you stop for a moment and ask if feminism did anything to oppose it? The stated goal is equality, but feminists are only willing to lift one side.
You literally describe how patriarchy is negatively affecting men. Which is also criticized by feminism. Maybe you need to read a bit.
Patriarchy is a theory that can’t be tested, nor can it make any useful predictions. It’s an idea that men rule for the benefit of men, but that’s clearly not happening. I think oligarchy or plutocracy are closer to what you see, but it’s just easier to blame men.
Why punish me and my son for a situation I had no benefit from?
Again I don’t see how you, or your son are being punished by feminism. My point was also more about that feminism has a history of addressing societal power structures though the lens of gender. Obviously it will have some outdated elements, but it is being constantly evolved to address more modern problems women - and if you go into more modern version marginalized groups in general experience.
f anything, contemporary feminism is doubling down on demonizing men and insisting on yet more special benefits for women.
Would be curious to read up how intersectional feminism is demonizing men.
Feminists are still actively fighting for lower penalties for women while ignoring the plight of incarcerated men. Scotland is trying to get rid of women’s prisons entirely. Women get sympathy, men get the stick.
How are lower penalties for women related to feminism, that does not make any sense. Isn’t it more the tradtional societal view of men being the violent and aggressive ones that is responsible for men getting an unfair treatment when it comes to sentencing?
You don’t know what the reason is, and no one much cares. When men outnumbered women, changes were made. Now that women outnumber men, you stopped caring. Ta da, feminism!
But the reason would be the whole point. Is there a systemic disadvantage, then the state needs to intervene - no need to intervene in personal choice. Women choosing to be a stay at home mom, no need to intervene. Women having to stay at home because they have no other realistic choices. That’s bad.
they earn more because of social expectations
So there is a pay gap, you might say - pretty sure feminism is addressing that issue.
I think it highlights the fact that more is expected from men
But again feminism also deals with expectation put by society on men. For a personal example: I was raised by a rather feminist mother - and I don’t really feel any societal pressure on me as a man. Because that’s not what I tie my value as human being to.
Male suicide and homelessness is are major current issues,
That is an issue, but again - how is feminism at fault? This is more tied into USA being very neo liberal and having very little social market economy elements, which can greatly reduce the pressure on an individual.
can you stop for a moment and ask if feminism did anything to oppose it?
Sure, feminism is challenging the whole structure that is responsible for the most problems you describe. You talk about the pressure of societal pressure men feel - where does it come from. From feminist world view or from the conservative world view. Does feminism expect men to be the sole earner for a family?
Patriarchy is a theory that can’t be tested, nor can it make any useful predictions. It’s an idea that men rule for the benefit of men, but that’s clearly not happening. I think oligarchy or plutocracy are closer to what you see, but it’s just easier to blame men.
Patriarchy is not a theory it an observation of power structures. You can doubt of how much of it is left in modern times, but come on: women could not vote, work, study or be practically an independent adult for quite the long time in history and still can’t in some parts of the world. It’s silly to claim that there was never a power dis balance between men an women.
I think by default, since feminism prioritizes the issues and lived experiences of women via a theory that casts men as a gender as a class defined by their opression of women, yeah I’d say that primes feminists to develop a bias against individual men, regardless of what they say on paper about “systems.” Not to mention the redefining of politics via feminism into “The personal is political,” it’s why they cast moral judgements on men who just don’t like or care for the barbie movie, it’s not just a difference in opinion but a radical moral failing on the part of the man in question.
TL:DR Their theories on paper attack systems but their praxis attacks men as individuals because they cast men as individuals as ever present proxies for that “oppressive system” in their minds.
