These experts on AI are here to help us understand important things about AI.

Who are these generous, helpful experts that the CBC found, you ask?

“Dr. Muhammad Mamdani, vice-president of data science and advanced analytics at Unity Health Toronto”, per LinkedIn a PharmD, who also serves in various AI-associated centres and institutes.

“(Jeff) Macpherson is a director and co-founder at Xagency.AI”, a tech startup which does, uh, lots of stuff with AI (see their wild services page) that appears to have been announced on LinkedIn two months ago. The founders section lists other details apart from J.M.'s “over 7 years in the tech sector” which are interesting to read in light of J.M.'s own LinkedIn page.

Other people making points in this article:

C. L. Polk, award-winning author (of Witchmark).

“Illustrator Martin Deschatelets” whose employment prospects are dimming this year (and who knows a bunch of people in this situation), who per LinkedIn has worked on some nifty things.

“Ottawa economist Armine Yalnizyan”, per LinkedIn a fellow at the Atkinson Foundation who used to work at the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives.

Could the CBC actually seriously not find anybody willing to discuss the actual technology and how it gets its results? This is archetypal hood-welded-shut sort of stuff.

Things I picked out, from article and round table (before the video stopped playing):

Does that Unity Health doctor go back later and check these emergency room intake predictions against actual cases appearing there?

Who is the “we” who have to adapt here?

AI is apparently “something that can tell you how many cows are in the world” (J.M.). Detecting a lack of results validation here again.

“At the end of the day that’s what it’s all for. The efficiency, the productivity, to put profit in all of our pockets”, from J.M.

“You now have the opportunity to become a Prompt Engineer”, from J.M. to the author and illustrator. (It’s worth watching the video to listen to this person.)

Me about the article:

I’m feeling that same underwhelming “is this it” bewilderment again.

Me about the video:

Critical thinking and ethics and “how software products work in practice” classes for everybody in this industry please.

  • Steve@awful.systems
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    1 year ago

    I wanna expand on this a bit because it was a rush job.

    This part…

    Learning AI and Building on chain start with deciding which product you’re going to base your learning/building on and which products you’re going to learn to achieve that. Something that has no stability and never will.

    …is a bit wrong. The AI environment has no stability now because it’s a mess of products fighting for sensationalist attention. But if it ever gains stability, as in there being a single starting point for learning AI, it will be because a product, or a brand, won. You’ll be learning a product just like people learned Flash.

    Seeing people in here talk about CoPilot or ChatGPT and examples of how they have found it useful is exactly why we’re going to find ourselves in a situation where software products discourage any kind of unconventional or experimental ways of doing things. Coding isn’t a clean separation between mundane, repetitive, pattern-based, automatable tasks and R&D style, hacking, or inventiveness. It’s a recipe for applying the “wordpress theme” problem to everything where the stuff you like to do, where your creativity drives you, becomes a living hell. Like trying to customise a wordpress theme to do something it wasn’t designed to do.

    The stories of chatgpt helping you out of a bind are the exact stories that companies like openAI will let you tell to advertise for them, but they’ll never go all in on making their product really good at those things because then you’ll be able to point at them and say “ahah! it can’t do this stuff!”

      • Steve@awful.systems
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        1 year ago

        It’s my own name I made up from a period in the late 2000s, early 2010s when I’d have a lot of freelance clients ask me to build their site “but it’s easy because I have already purchased an awesome theme, I just need you to customise it a bit”

        It’s the same as our current world of design systems and component libraries. They get you 95% of the way and assume that you just fill in the 5% with your own variations and customisations. But what really happens is you have 95% worth of obstruction from making what would normally be the most basic CSS adjustment.

        It’s really hard to explain to someone that it’d be cheaper and faster if they gave me designs and I built a theme from scratch than it would be to panel-beat their pre-built theme into the site they want.

        “customise” is the biggest lie in dev ever told

        • self@awful.systems
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          1 year ago

          I’d have a lot of freelance clients ask me to build their site “but it’s easy because I have already purchased an awesome theme, I just need you to customise it a bit”

          oh my god, this was all of my clients when I was in college

          • Steve@awful.systems
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            1 year ago

            holy shit, Airtable - the 4th app in my growing list of “UX is the product” apps that will definitely all be absorbed into one of the other apps on the list at some point. (Notion, Slack, Figma)

            they sell flexibility, not speciality! It’s exactly what my rant about AI products is based on.

            Here’s a quick collage of the 4 product taglines. Not a concrete purpose in sight. They know you can’t call them up and say “hey, I paid good money for your product and it isn’t doing productivities!”

            1: The fastest way to build apps. Empower your team to work faster and more confidently than ever before. 2: Made for people. Built for productivity. Connect the right people, find anything you need and automate the rest. That's work in Slack, your productivity platform. 3: Work together to build the best products. Explore design possibilities, build prototypes, and easily translate your work into code with Figma—a collaborative product development platform for teams. 4: Your wiki, docs,  e projects. Together. Notion is the connected workspace where better, faster work happens. Now with AI

            • self@awful.systems
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              1 year ago

              The fastest way to build apps

              this is an ad for a self-destructive work/life balance and a paycheck that’s high enough you can just barely afford to patch yourself up when it catches up with you?

        • froztbyte@awful.systems
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          1 year ago

          ah. yeah. I know what you mean.

          I have a set of thoughts on a related problem in this (which I believe I’ve mentioned here before (and, yes, still need to get to writing)).

          the dynamics of precision and loss, in communication, over time, socially, end up resulting in some really funky setups that are, well, mutually surprising to most/all parties involved pretty much all of the time

          and the further down the chain of loss of precision you go, well, godspeed soldier

          • Steve@awful.systems
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            1 year ago

            Also, like, when you simplify the complicated parts of something, what happens to the parts of that thing that were already simple? They don’t get more simple, usually they become more complex, or not possible at all anymore.

            • froztbyte@awful.systems
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              1 year ago

              one of the things I love ranting about, and teaching (yes, seriously), to people, is that

              simple != simplicity

              it’s a nuanced little distinction. but it’s also a distinction with worlds of variances.

              and there are so, so, so, so, so, so many people who think the former is the goal

              it’s a fucking scourge

            • froztbyte@awful.systems
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              1 year ago

              once you learn that I’m, at most, touristly familiar with lisp

              you learn that the inside of my mind (and how it contextualises) is a deeply scary place

      • Steve@awful.systems
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        1 year ago

        I’ve been watching the 5 hours of tobacco advertising hearings from the 90s in a floating window while working on code spaghetti vue js components all day.

          • Steve@awful.systems
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            1 year ago

            seriously, every minute of these hearings is fascinating. Just some of the most evil, greedy, slimy shit coming out of the mouths of suited up old white men who are trying every single misdirection possible to justify targeted marketing of tobacco

            • froztbyte@awful.systems
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              1 year ago

              (~stream of consciousness commentary because spoon deficit:)

              I’ve seen samples of it used in some media before

              I haven’t ever gotten to watch it myself

              probably there’s value in viewing and analyzing it in depth, because… a lot of other bad actors (involved in current-day bad) pull pretty much the “same sort of shit”

              the legal methodology and wordwrangling and dodging may have evolved (<- speculation/guess)

              but near certainly there’s a continuum

            • maol@awful.systems
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              1 year ago

              People forget just how evil the tobacco companies were. A factor in why I don’t smoke is that I just don’t want people like this to earn money.

              • Steve@awful.systems
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                1 year ago

                the hearing is just for regulations on their advertising practices too. One of the most common complaints from the lobbyists was “if you want to do this you should go all the way and outlaw smoking completely” as if a marlboro logo on an f1 car was keeping the industry alive.

                • maol@awful.systems
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                  1 year ago

                  the gall of selling a literally addictive product then complaining they wouldn’t let you advertise enough. buddy, you don’t need to advertise! nicotine is doing your work for you!

                  • Steve@awful.systems
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                    1 year ago

                    You can tell they really don’t want to address that part. They keep playing the “adults can make their own decisions” card.

                    The thing is these restrictions on advertising helped tobacco companies develop some of the more covert marketing techniques that are normal today.

                    cough user experience cough

        • Steve@awful.systems
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          Thanks! It’s not really unhinged, just written in an unhinged manner I think. Trying to make too many points in a small space

    • datarama@awful.systems
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      1 year ago

      Seeing people in here talk about CoPilot or ChatGPT and examples of how they have found it useful is exactly why we’re going to find ourselves in a situation where software products discourage any kind of unconventional or experimental ways of doing things. […] It’s a recipe for applying the “wordpress theme” problem to everything where the stuff you like to do, where your creativity drives you, becomes a living hell. Like trying to customise a wordpress theme to do something it wasn’t designed to do.

      I’m not sure I entirely understand what you mean; can you elaborate?

      • Steve@awful.systems
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        I meant that anecdotes of these things being helpful usually present mundane, repetitive coding tasks as being separate from the supposed good parts of development, not intertwined with them. I liken that to the value proposition of frameworks, customisable themes, design systems, or component libraries. They are fine until you want to go off-script, where having deep knowledge of the underlying system becomes a burden because you are obstructed by the imposed framework.