“Systematic reviews of controlled clinical studies of treatments used by chiropractors have found no evidence that chiropractic manipulation is effective, with the possible exception of treatment for back pain.[8] A 2011 critical evaluation of 45 systematic reviews concluded that the data included in the study “fail[ed] to demonstrate convincingly that spinal manipulation is an effective intervention for any condition.”[10] Spinal manipulation may be cost-effective for sub-acute or chronic low back pain, but the results for acute low back pain were insufficient.[11] No compelling evidence exists to indicate that maintenance chiropractic care adequately prevents symptoms or diseases.[12]”
False, I go and feel better afterwards, check mate
erm thats actually placebo effect ☝️🤓 you do realize that the effects you feel dont matter, since studies indicate otherwise
But boy, oh boy. Say this to a believer and get ready to loose an afternoon.
Indeed. I’ve got a chiropractor in my family, and I actively avoid talking to them about their work because I’ve always been convinced that it causes more harm than good. I think they finally got the hint after the 1000th time I refused their offer of an adjustment. They do some genuinely bizarre stuff beyond the standard adjustments, and talk about it like it’s proven science.
Bizarre stuff like what?
“Testing” for allergies or nutritional deficiencies by holding a sample up to your forehead and then applying downward pressure to your outstretched arms to “determine” sensitivity. Weird stuff like that.
Edit: I believe it’s called Applied Kinesiology, but that just makes it sound legit. Which it’s not.
I always knew it was pseudoscience, but damn, how is that even allowed?
loose an afternoon
That’s alright. A chiropractor can tighten up that afternoon for ya.
It seems to me that atlas orthogonal adjustment is more of a real thing offered than just getting your neck twisted, then again as someone who probably needs that (I had whiplash many years ago) I have no idea if the places near me have the equipment for it (or x-ray stuff needed) so that along with paperwork/scheduling has stopped me.
its not just not helpful, it can be deadly/dangerous.
strokes are triggered by these idiots.
Yeah, I was coming in here to say similar.
Chiropractors aren’t just not effective, they are fucking dangerous.
Strokes, but also broken necks.
And some of these quacks do “adjustments” on children and infants.
Saw that on episode of Bullshit with Penn and Teller. Anyone who would do that to a baby should be imprisoned for life.
Yeah, the last time I went to a chiropractor for back pain, they also “corrected” my neck which in the past felt good but this time it just immediately pulled a muscle in my neck and left me in pain and barely able to turn my head for weeks.
It’s better now, but I’ll never go back to a chiropractor again because of the risk of making things worse for essentially no benefit.
Also animals, I saw a video of someone doing it to a pit bull and after he cracked the dogs neck the pit gave him the “I’m going to rip your fucking throat out” look.
It’s straight up animal abuse.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.str.32.5.1054
Thank your pointing this out. It’s not just any stroke too, it’s primarily vertebral/basilar artery distribution strokes. Those supply the brain stem which includes such necessary functions as control of breathing and consciousness. You don’t want a stroke anywhere, but particularly not there.
Some chiropractors might swing back that, you’ve only showed correlation not causation. Well, when we have no clear evidence of chiropractic neck manipulation being helpful for anything, and we have a likely very dangerous correlation, the clinical parsimony is just not there. So no one is going to run that study (give a large amount of people neck manipulation, a large amount of people no neck manipulation, and compare rates of stroke that occur afterwards), it would be very unethical, no institutional review board would ever approve that study as ethical to perform.
And it makes a lot of sense too, the vertebral artery is encased in the neck vertebrae, so violent movements of the neck vertebrae can stretch and tear those arteries. Those tears, called a dissection, can sometimes obstruct blood flow all on their own, but more often create a spot for blood clots to form (since there’s turbulent blood flow and a defect in the smooth artery wall that normally prevents your blood from clotting). So please, no violent neck movements for any reason, chiropractor or otherwise.
This. My friend had a triple stroke shortly after having neck manipulation done by a standin for his usual chiropractor. Luckily he survived, but it has very much opened my eyes to how dangerous it can be.
Reason number 103215 to wear a helmet.
Chiropractic has its benefits. The problem is that you can’t make a living if all you are doing is the few things that chiropractic works for. That’s why they have to make all kinds of spectacular claims about the benefits and rope you into 6 months of twice a week visits.
The Dr I went to as a kid was an MD and had a chiropractic license. He was able to reset my rib when it got knocked out from being shoved between the seats on the school bus.
Pseudo-scientific jibber-jabber doesn’t actually work? Color me shocked
I know people that swear by it which I can kind of understand if you have pain and they “pop” something and you feel better. But is it really helping if you have to keep going back?
I don’t believe in it, and I’ll never go, but my girlfriend does.
Yes, she has to keep going back, but when they “pop” the correct thing, she’s pain free for weeks. When she holds off going, she’s in pain and can’t sleep until she goes.
I personally don’t trust them, and it’s a lot of money for temporary relief, but I guess it kinda works? As long as you’re fine with the trade-off being fucking paralyzed when they crank your neck at the speed of sound.
The thing is, this study is talking about “chiropractic manipulation” which is a very specific thing. (With that clicker thingy I think?) The thing is, chiropractors tend do do lots of different therapies, like stretching and massage. So you could go to a chiropractor who performs some kind of massage which is effective at temporary pain relief.
Honestly, your girlfriend would be far, far better off going to a competent physical therapist. It sounds like there’s a muscular weakness that’s allowing a joint to not stay in place.
In almost all cases, people will get better long-term results by doing physical therapy rather than going to a chiropractor.
Sounds like the chiropractor has no reason to fix her for good. It’s for-profit healthcare, and she keeps coming back. If he fixes her properly he’s going to lose income.
They get paid a lot less per hour, have less support staff, and less equipment. Hence any given unit of time they spend with you costs less. Additionally you have more options of which to choose.
Been to a doc recently? Think of how fast they try to get you out of the room. Feels like you are begging them to please listen to you. Well a chiropractor can spend the time talking to a patient. Of course you feel better, someone heard you complain for over 30 seconds and really listened to you. And if you weren’t listened to you, you just go find another one.
Feeling listened to doesn’t mean the same thing as treatment.
I messed up my hip once… couldn’t get it right … super painful. Chiropractor did it up and was ok from then on. Who knows!
Ex had an issue. 6 treatments and she was done for good, never went back. So yes, sometimes they know what they’re doing sometimes it works.
Painting the whole profession as witch doctors? Meh, they’re not touching my neck, but I’ll listen to what they say. Educated and licensed doctors and nurses can be total fruitcakes as well.
I wonder if it’s a placebo effect. Like I go for a back massage every month or so and feel good for a few weeks but I’m fully aware it’s just muscle pain relief and not some permanent fix.
I used to know a chiropractor and I always called him Mr. _____ instead of doctor.
The amount of people in this thread not reading more than the headline is mind numbing.
And completely expected
Quick reminder that Physios and Chiros outside America face different rules for accreditation, and may not warrant similar judgement.
Chiropractors and osteopaths only exist in such large numbers because they bill less to insurers than actual doctors & hospitals. So of course insurers are going to promote these quacks because it’s cheaper than somebody going to an actual physiotherapist for treatment.
There should really be legislation that requires insurers to cover science & evidence based treatments. If someone wants woo it should be at additional expense to them, not part of a standard policy.
Damn, Lemmy really is just condensed Reddit circle jerks at this point.
I recently learned that chiropractors in Switzerland are very different. They are all medical doctors and need to fulfill strict requirements so they can work as chiropractor. It is also a common thing here to go to chiropractors and I have never heard of any accidents.
those are ‘licensed physical therapists’… the thing is few good things that might be attributed to chiroprators is already done by actual medical professionals… even here in the u.s.
the difference is, we allow quacks to pretend to be ‘doctors’ here. a certain subset of the population are drawn to the homeopathic, pseudo-science nature of it.
Imagine hating chiropractors so much you have to downvote a true fact without spending a second looking it up yourself.
One of my best friend’s fathers was an MD before retiring.
The cadaver he used in med school: broken neck during an “alignment” at a chiropractor’s office.
Anecdotal evidence for sure, but definitely a story that I think of whenever someone talks about going to a chiropractor.
Uh, yeah, having had several accidents resulting in vertebral subluxation or a rotated SI joint that was only corrected and relieved by chiropractors, whoever came up with that conclusion can fuck all the way off.
Thank you for sharing your story! While it’s a great example of anecdotal evidence, the “whoever” that came up with these conclusions are called “scientists” who perform research based on scientific evidence. It’s great that you feel better for having seen a chiropractor, but many do not.
That’s also anecdotal stories, and it’s not my imagination that after attempting numerous other methods, that chiropractors were the only ones who did anything except say to walk it off or offer painkillers. You can fuck off along with those scientists.
you really trust yourself over the majority of scientsits and medical people the world over? really?
please tell me you also never to a hospital or ever dial 911 for a medical emergency. they may use science on you
You must be partially illiterate since I’ve already said I went to doctors, and that I was recommended to see a chiropractor by at least one them, and that I experienced relief and long term correction for multiple accidents. Not just relief, but instant relief, from realigning the vertebrae from a position that created nerve entrapments. The mechanics of chiropractic and how they work is not difficult to understand. If any of these scientists were messed up badly enough to need one, they would also draw different conclusions.
edit: and yes, I do trust my own observations about the presence of pain and its elimination from my own body. I don’t need scientists or doctors to tell me that it didn’t actually happen. I was there.
wow. i mean, you always read about people who just dont understand science… but then you see one in the wild
good luck, buddy.
you are the blood from which regulations are written
As far as I’m concerned, you’re the ignorant one here. If you ever need chiropractic and decide not to get it because a group of people told you it’s worthless, I’m fine with it. I don’t have to live with any pain you may suffer from in the future or your decisions how to manage it.
And I’m not sure what you’re wishing me luck on, because due to my decision making, I’m pain free with full mobility, with exception for ringing in the ears, for which there is no cure at the moment, but I do use scientifically based hearing aids that play scientifically based disruption tones that work about 60% of the time, prescribed by my doctors and paid by my medical insurance. And I don’t avoid hospitals or other nonsense you’re projecting. Everything you’ve said is disposable.
k
“Science is just stories told by people who read books to make people who don’t read books feel dumb”
