Came across this recently and I can barely understand what’s about.
These people will happily fork over hundreds if not thousands of dollars for fake IDs and paperwork from con artists, who must be laughing their way to the bank, while also refusing to get official, required paperwork from the government.
It’s an idiot who insists on inflicting their idiocy on everyone around them. Seriously they’re dumb af.
People of inexplicably confident certainty that they alone have discovered legal loopholes enabling them to ignore laws they don’t like while benefitting from public services and infrastructure of a nation they assert they are not a citizen of. It’s delusional ignorance.
People of inexplicably confident certainty that they alone have discovered YOUTUBE VIDEOS THAT DISCUSS legal loopholes enabling them to ignore laws they don’t like while benefitting from public services and infrastructure of a nation they assert they are not a citizen of. It’s delusional ignorance.
FTFY
You know, there are probably some in the mountains of West Virginia that might as well be sovereign citizens. They’re living in the woods off the land, not using public infrastructure, trading with their neighbors, and being self sufficient.
Hell, I’ve got a buddy who has a little shack. He pays his taxes, has a registered vehicle, and obeys the laws. He’ll work the oilfield or do odd jobs a few months of the year, pay what he needs to pay, then go live in the woods with his dog until he needs more money. He hunts, fishes, and forages. We check on his property while he’s gone.
He owns almost nothing and is basically on the most hardcore camping trip you can imagine for half the year. I wish I had that mindset and skill set. He’s one of the happiest guys I know.
The skill set to live like that is wild. I’ve got a couple of acres in the swamp where I hike and shoot and camp, generally act like a redneck. You could drop me off naked in January, I’d be fine in 20-minutes. But I wouldn’t last more than 3-weeks!
Most people have no concept of living off the land like your buddy. Wish I could hang with him and learn!
Right?!? I go for a week and I’m done. I can’t fathom what that takes.
I kinda wish the government would recognize their sovereignty, and make them pass through customs every time they leave their property, cut off their public utilities, make them apply for a work visa…you know, give them the full experience.
Don’t worry…they already get their public utilities cut when the stop paying for them, and they pulled over and charged when driving an unregistered vehicle. Plus many don’t have a social security number, so can’t apply for most jobs anyways. That’s what gives them the opportunity to complain that they are being oppressed and they are fighting for a righteous cause. It also gives us entertainment when they post their latest attempt to say the secret words that will let them get away with all these things that inevitably fails.
The sad thing is that their kids usually don’t have a social security number or birth certificate either, so the kids end up screwed over when they leave their parents and try to get a job or place to live. It’s not an easy process to get those documents.
A moron who thinks the law does not apply to them.
They are people who have fallen for and/or are grifting for a deeply unhinged conspiracy theory that national laws don’t apply to them if they do some certain set of pseudo legal things. What exactly those things are, as well as what laws don’t apply to them,vary widely, but are usually centered around driver’s licenses and car registration, tax evasion and not paying child support.
Past that it’s hard to explain what their beliefs are because it is so vague and ever changing.
I can explain everything in detail for a modest fee /s
If you want a well written break down of them, a Canadian judge wrote a fantastic article:
https://learningcentre.lawsociety.ab.ca/mod/page/view.php?id=251
“Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigants”
Removed by mod
They think their individual rights and freedumbs mean laws don’t apply to them.
Some of their grievances are true. The government is often guilty of overreach and trampling on individual rights (like Roe v Wade being overturned, declaring corporate money to be free speech, cops murdering people, cracking down on protests, etc).
However, sovereign citizens think they can use “constitutional logic” to basically do whatever they want. They often find themselves sitting in a cell with Pikachu face, asking for a real lawyer’s help.
Perhaps the most egregious (or successful, depending on your point of view) example would be constitutional sheriffs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace_Officers_Association?wprov=sfla1
In my opinion, they are basically domestic terrorists, or at least adjacent to that. The 3-letter federal agencies keep a close eye on these types of people.
Perhaps the most egregious (or successful, depending on your point of view) example would be constitutional sheriffs.
Shit, this went from harmless nutcases to completely terrifying.
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to fear monger. We do live in “interesting” times.
That phrasing refers to a very broad set of movements and individuals. The usual core beliefs are:
- Legislation in their jurisdiction and the government’s authority to enforce it is in some way defective.
- People in their jurisdiction can opt out of laws and government, and live only under “natural law”.
- People have to perform a set of legal procedures (spells, effectively) in order to achieve that.
Exactly why and how law/government authority is defective, how they understand natural law, what the spells are that they have to cast - all of these are extremely variable both between jurisdictions and between individuals.
Primarily it’s a set of grifters charging money for courses and materials to learn about these beliefs from whoever they can convince. Sometimes, as in Germany, it’s a group of neo-Nazis plotting to reinstate the Kaiser.You might enjoy münecat’s longer form explanation.
“natural law”.
Wait, is that what that lunatic was ranting and raving about the other day??
(If you saw the thread you’d know exactly who I’m talking about)
The core belief of sovereign citizens – initially, anyway – is the notion that since government exists at the consent of the governed they can “opt out” of being subject to the laws of wherever they are.
This has a tiny grain of legitimate logic to it, in that not a single person on Earth is given a choice of society and/or country to be born into. Governments attempt to exert absolute authority over everyone within their spheres of influence regardless of what those people may happen to think of the matter, and the feasibility of them physically leaving said society/country notwithstanding. All laws are just words on paper, after all, and from a certain perspective completely artificial, arbitrary, and transient.
Where it all breaks down is that these people typically arrive at the above conclusion by being absolutely stark raving loony, and typically want to have their cake and eat it, too – they don’t want to be subject to obeying laws, or paying taxes, or having to register their vehicles and get driver’s licenses, pay child support, etc., but they still somehow feel entitled to the use of public infrastructure like roads and bridges, police and fire services, municipal water and sewer use, and so forth. In modern times a simple “no gubmint can tell me what to do and I’m answerable only to myself” outlook has mutated into this arcane and nebulous pseudo-religious willful misinterpretation on the wording of laws, what is and is not printed CAPITALIZED on various government documents, and fixation on “contract law,” treating every interaction between everyone and every thing as a “transaction” which the sovereign citizen believes is inherently negotiable (always in their favor, of course).
This is furthered by shucksters who sell books and seminars to
idiotsthe types of people who have the right type of chip on their shoulders, which purportedly contain the secret knowledge and legal incantations to make all this work but are, of course, just bullshit. Usually people who entangle themselves in SovCit bullshit are trying to weasel out of of some particular financial obligation. Not wanting to pay child support seems to be a very popular one, as are taxes in general, fines, loans, and liens.The whole thing is just fascinatingly whacked the more you look into it. Here’s the RationalWiki article on it, for instance:
shucksters
I believe you mean either shyster or huckster, though both certainly apply.
Chuckster
Nope. Chuck Testa.
Wow, what a throwback
If shuckster is a portmanteau, I’m all in. When can we all start using it?
Dumb.
Are you familiar with the term “dumbass”?
Ignorant losers that are trying to grift their way through life thinking they’ve found loopholes that allow them to circumvent the laws that normal people follow.
You know how lawyers shout “objection!” in court and it causes things to happen? Sovereign Citizens believe all laws work that way. If you find the right words, phrase, or document, you can bend the legal system to your will.
It’s kind of like thinking the law works like Magic The Gathering. Sorry officer, but I counter your “diving with a suspended licence” attack with my “I’m travelling not driving” spell!
I almost feel bad for them because in some ways the legal system is a game that can be bent to your will. It’s just that the best spells cost millions of dollars to cast.
the legal system is a game that can be bent to your will
Boom! This is kinda true. People encounter the legal system, get fucked, get off, or get by, and they see that words mean things in that system. I get where they’re coming from.
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When I was in my 20s I fucked around a bit, nothing heinous, but found there’s a difference in pleading nolo contendere and not guilty.
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My lawyer tore shit up in my child custody case. Because he knew the law, and how the game is played, we kicked my ex-wife’s ass all over the room. (She was also hilariously wrong in nearly everything she did to us. Because she had legal opinions and not facts.)
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Little off topic, but for the sovereign angle, Americans can tell their bank to get fucked on NSF charges. It’s a phone call, and it’s backed by law.
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I got evicted by a foul and senile landlord in the day. All on me because I couldn’t produce the signed agreement, he “lost” his copy, claimed it never existed.
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I got fucked out of my apartment because my roommate had the lease changed without my knowledge. Should have fought that one.
(These items are long in the past, I’m not so ignorant now. But I’m still ignorant!)
You learn these things as you navigate the world, and for these dumbassess, it seems like magic. Saying the right words works in many cases! Or better yet, not saying a damn thing. Been fucked on that one a time or three!
It’s a simple-minded view of the world. What kills me is that their non-stop failures don’t get them to reconsider their actions. I know, they’re told they didn’t say the words or return the coupon or whatever the fuck, but they just keep coming back for more ass kicking?! Fuck me. I know when I’m down. I’ll give up.
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